To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:46:36 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: engine swap Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, charles white wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I don't own a Volvo 303 yet but hopefully will soon or my second pick a LR > 109 ambulance. Anyway I'm sure the Isuzu 3.9 is better in a Land Rover than > it would be in a Volvo 303. The SMT kit for the volvo 303 with a Mercedes > diesel seems to be a proven success although limited by the poor gear ratios > of ZF tranny. What is needed here is a over drive tranny and transfer case > combo that is short enough to fit the 303. Just how short is the Zf+fd51 > combo anyway? Here is a link to www.Terrangbil.net where a volvo m47 (5-speed) > is connected to the fd51 TC. If the m47+fd51 combo were short enough to fit > behind the Mercedes 300td and still fit in the Volvo 303 life would be grand: > > http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dsv&u=3Dhttp://forum.terrangbil.net/forum_posts.asp%3FTID%3D2114&ei=3DZivgSaDWOpe6tgPPnLGtCQ&sa=3DX&oi=3Dtranslate&resnum=3D6&ct=3Dresult&prev=3D/search%3Fq%3Dvolvo%2Bm47%2Bfd51%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DG > > or: http://forum.terrangbil.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=3D2114 > > Just a little more fuel for thought. > > Charles Charles, The current problem with the SMT kit is that it was originally designed for the normally aspirated Mercedes OM603 6-cylinder diesel. The turbo configuration on the OM603A engines available in the US require significant alteration of the right side motor mount system to clear the turbo. While this is not a major issue of concern, it does add to the complexity of the engine conversion process. The reasons we have chosen to use the older Mercedes 5-cylinder OM617A turbo- diesel is that it fits better than the 6-cylinder, we do not need the additional power the OM603A generates and the five cylinders are more readily avialable in the US. In fact, I am going out this evening to buy three additional donor vehicles from a Dutch Mercedes mechanic who has decided to retire. He also has several core engines available. Concerning the diesel/gearing issue, that problem disappears if your dieselis a fast spinning one. A diesel that redlines higher than the standard B30A and has equal horsepower and more torque should not loose any top speed. With that said, I can say with certainty that work is currently underway, by a domestic overdrive manufacturer, to produce an O/D unit that will attach to the rear of the Volvo tranfer case. As the prototype is tested and perfected, more information will be forthcoming. While it could prove useful on any of the TGB vehicles, I think its greatest utility would be found on the lower geared 6x6 trucks. Take care. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: "Jim Molloy" Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: engine swap Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:59:36 +0200 On 16 Apr 2009 at 16:46, Jim Molloy wrote: > Charles, > > The current problem with the SMT kit is that it was originally designed for > the normally aspirated Mercedes OM603 6-cylinder diesel. The turbo > configuration on the OM603A engines available in the US require significant > alteration of the right side motor mount system to clear the turbo. While > this is not a major issue of concern, it does add to the complexity of the > engine conversion process. > > The reasons we have chosen to use the older Mercedes 5-cylinder OM617A > turbo-diesel is that it fits better than the 6-cylinder, we do not need the > additional power the OM603A generates and the five cylinders are more > readily avialable in the US. In fact, I am going out this evening to buy > three additional donor vehicles from a Dutch Mercedes mechanic who has > decided to retire. He also has several core engines available. Send him some fellow-Dutch greetings from across the pond....;)) > Concerning the diesel/gearing issue, that problem disappears if your diesel > is a fast spinning one. A diesel that redlines higher than the standard > B30A and has equal horsepower and more torque should not loose any top > speed. With that said, I can say with certainty that work is currently > underway, by a domestic overdrive manufacturer, to produce an O/D unit that > will attach to the rear of the Volvo tranfer case. As the prototype is > tested and perfected, more information will be forthcoming. While it could > prove useful on any of the TGB vehicles, I think its greatest utility would > be found on the lower geared 6x6 trucks. It probably uses the PTO-port, cq blocks the PTO-option, right? Claes Hellbom/Blomquist had a 1.5x overdrive on his Dakar vehicle. But, it was a permanent overdrive, nothing switcheable....will yours be switcheable? Note that in Finland, there is (or at least was) a low gear ratio set of 3.7:1 available....with a diesel (and a heavy 6x6 to begin with), the combination of this 1:1.5 & 3.7:1 would be quite interesting....but making either one switcheable would be even better of course. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:48:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: I think I want ALL Foreign Military Vehicles......At first!!! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 28 Apr 2009 at 18:50, Phillip Tupelu wrote: > Ok, first off, you should have read the whole posting before firing off at > me. That 710K was my first mil vehicle and it developed problems with the > carbs to where we were consuming half a tank just coming home from the gas > station about two miles away!!!=20 Normally folks tend to address such a carb-problem first, instead of the seller taking it back....no surprise you were misunderstood here....:)) > I am fully aware that military vehicles, > either foreign or domestic, are gas hogs but I want one anyway!! I really > do not care if the vehicle consumes more gas than most, that is a small > price to pay for all there is to gain in terms of using it the way I want > to. Now back to the original message. What I was trying to do is find > someone close to me who owns a VOLVO 6x6 so that I may drive it around and > see if it has the comfort, power, and any other such things to be my NEXT > and hopefully final vehicle of choice. =A0 You will have to describe your personal definition of comfort & power, before anyone can answer that question....:)) My verdict is that even 15k km's in one stretch , at 70-80km/h, on stock Goodyear tires, won't result in permanent hearing damage....yet others will disagree....:)) However, we all do agree on the fact that talking to the co-driver should not be your favorite pastime....:)) That said, there are many details to improve that. Seat-wise, stock seats, the comfort is better than in most, if not all other stock vehicles (it is however strongly recommended to modify the seat rails/adjustment, for another 2.5cm extra space....same for adding the baffling effective Waeco MagicCool ventilated seat covers, if you live or travel in hot area's. > The problem that I keep having is > that you can only get so much out of internet research but when you finally > get what you think you want it often turns out to be the wrong choice. I am > trying to further my research. I could easily buy a "jeep or other modern > vehicle" but that is not what I want. I have thoroughly enjoyed each and > every military vehicle and learned each time a little more about what I > really WANT (which I think is a Volvo 6x6 TGB-20 or similar). Now I just > want to see if it has more qualities that I desire and need that I am not > getting from my current and almost flawless Pinz 710M. I have been > contacted by Jim Malloy about this subject and he told me about a possible > "bolt-on" OD unit > for the Volvo's which would make things a bit more comfortable on the long > hauls as I am not afraid to take my vehicles on extended trips. Unless this OD is selectable/switchable (a question I already asked Jim by private mail, no answer yet), *or* the fixed lower ratio is offset by less (maximum) weight (ignoring the extra wind resistance of a tall/wide TGB20 for the moment (and the additional friction/drag of the rear drivetrain, especially in corners), it would only make sense in combination with a diesel (or a B30E/injection)....it might *look/sound* as if the B30 engine is running out of rpm at top speed, but it doesn't have that much torque 'reserve' at lower rpm's to make it driveable there. Of course, being a 5sp, it is easier to accommodate an overdrive than with a 4sp.... -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: "Volvo303@yahoogroups.com" From: David Giller Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:15:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: I think I want ALL Foreign Military Vehicles......At first!!! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On Apr 29, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > Unless this OD is selectable/switchable (a question I already asked > Jim by > private mail, no answer yet), Jim can't answer definitively because the OD is still in development. However, I happen to know that it's going to be based, to whatever degree possible, on the Warn-type PTO overdrive as fitted to the Jeep Dana/Spicer 18 transfer case, and will therefore be on-the-fly selectable, including most likely the ability to use it as a gear splitter. Exact ratio is yet to be determined. It will require an additional lever, probably cable-actuated, to be fitted in the cab for shifting into and out of overdrive. It will bolt to the rear of the Volvo TC and give OD in both 2wd and 4wd, will not interfere with the automatic vacuum 4wd actuator, and be usable in all gears. You will probably not be able to use any PTO accessories along with the OD, specifically including the PTO winch. Again, the OD doesn't yet exist, so any of this information is speculative, and I am not the person doing the development work (nor the closest to it) so this is second-hand speculation at that. I just have some basic familiarity with the project and feel that it is in good hands. To be realistic, we probably can't expect to see this ready for testing by NWMF2009. I'd love to be proven wrong, however. > *or* the fixed lower ratio is offset by less > (maximum) weight (ignoring the extra wind resistance of a tall/wide > TGB20 > for the moment (and the additional friction/drag of the rear > drivetrain, > especially in corners), it would only make sense in combination with a > diesel (or a B30E/injection)....it might *look/sound* as if the B30 > engine > is running out of rpm at top speed, but it doesn't have that much > torque > 'reserve' at lower rpm's to make it driveable there. > Of course, being a 5sp, it is easier to accommodate an overdrive > than with > a 4sp.... I think you're right in that there is probably less horsepower overhead in these engines than we want to believe. Also, I think there is a big difference between a fresh B30 and a tired one, and people investing in an OD will probably also want to invest in a freshening of their engine to pull the taller highway gear effectively. It would be nice if reports on the TBI conversions were available. Diesel conversions in TGB13/TGB20 trucks were a major consideration in the decision to pursue the OD, but the desire to have a more comfortable cruising speed in the TGB11 was as well, and that might be its most popular application. The OD won't be a magic bullet, but there is good reason to believe that it will be a nice product that will benefit many of us. Cheers, Dave To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 00:47:32 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: I think I want ALL Foreign Military Vehicles......At first!!! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > Unless this OD is selectable/switchable (a question I already asked Jim by > private mail, no answer yet), *or* the fixed lower ratio is offset by less > (maximum) weight (ignoring the extra wind resistance of a tall/wide TGB20 > for the moment (and the additional friction/drag of the rear drivetrain, > especially in corners), it would only make sense in combination with a > diesel (or a B30E/injection)....it might *look/sound* as if the B30 engine > is running out of rpm at top speed, but it doesn't have that much torque > 'reserve' at lower rpm's to make it driveable there. > Of course, being a 5sp, it is easier to accommodate an overdrive than with > a 4sp.... Willem-Jan, I do not recall receiving an e-mail on this subject but I could have missed something. If it was sent through Yahoo, I know it did not make it to my eyes. Best to reach me though either of the sites below. What I can tell you about the O/D unit to date is this. The manufacturer has had an opportunity to see both a complete TGB11 and a dismounted transmission/transfer case/PTO unit in person. They have the input gear for the transfer case in their possesion as well as dimensions of the available space behind the transfer case. The first report back confirms the parent O/D unit can fit in the available free space. The next step is hearing back as to the possibility of producing a gear set to link ZF transmission to Volvo transfer case via the O/D unit. I hope to have the verdict on that situation within 1-2 weeks. This manufacturer has much larger fish to fry so this prototype is not at the top of his list. If, by "seletable/switchable", you are asking if it can be remotely engaged and disengaged, that is the plan. How that will be accomplished remains to be worked out. Cable, vacuum/air or electtic solenoid are all in the running. I will keep this list informed as I get solid information back from the manufacturer. until then, patience is the key. Take care. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 20:25:45 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Overdrive Update Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello to all, I just spoke with the overdrive manufacturer who planned a prototype for the C-series trucks. After thorough evaluation including discussion with an even larger domestic overdrive manufacturer, the concensus is that an overdrive unit will be both too complex and too expensive to produce at this time. It was worth a try. Take care. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: "Volvo303@yahoogroups.com" From: David Giller Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 16:06:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Overdrive Update Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On May 5, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Jim Molloy wrote: > Hello to all, > > I just spoke with the overdrive manufacturer who planned a prototype > for the C-series trucks. After thorough evaluation including > discussion with an even larger domestic overdrive manufacturer, the > concensus is that an overdrive unit will be both too complex and too > expensive to produce at this time. > > It was worth a try. > > Take care. Thanks for the report Jim, and for putting your time into this. Having spoken with the gentleman who did the research (he built my TC and transmission and sold me my Ranger OD unit for my own conversion), I know that he really wanted to contribute something to the TGB community. He's worked mostly with American military vehicles, but voiced great appreciation for our Volvos and was hoping to be able to help. I have no doubt that he is disappointed too. Cheers, Dave