To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "testy150" Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:29:02 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I had a question about changing the gearbox/carrier oils.. The manual states gl-1 85/90w OR SAE 40 Engine oil.. Which one are folks using? Also, is using gl-5 a big no no for the gearbox/carriers? The book states the gl-5 is to be used in the differentials. I'd like to nail this down before i go about changing out all the fluids and a search of the site has turned up nothing. I don't even think i can find GL-1 85/90W anymore. Thanks, -Bruce To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Christian Brudevoll Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:01:50 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "testy150" wrote: > > I had a question about changing the gearbox/carrier oils.. The manual > states gl-1 85/90w OR SAE 40 Engine oil.. Which one are folks using? > > Also, is using gl-5 a big no no for the gearbox/carriers? The book > states the gl-5 is to be used in the differentials. I'd like to nail > this down before i go about changing out all the fluids and a search > of the site has turned up nothing. I don't even think i can find GL-1 > 85/90W anymore. > > Thanks, > -Bruce GL-5-oil will be to strong for the gearbox, and tear the brass syncronizing mechanism. In the differtials and drop-downs on the axles ther's no syncronizing, so there GL-5 is perfect. If you don't find GL-1, you can use engine-oil instead in the gearbox. Which of them is best i don't know. But I suggest GL-1 would be best, since it's a gear oil. I think I used GL-4 in the gearbox when maintaining a Landrover 8 years ago, but I'm not sure. Christian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "rdoveryhoo" Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:06:28 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "testy150" wrote: > > I had a question about changing the gearbox/carrier oils.. The manual > states gl-1 85/90w OR SAE 40 Engine oil.. Which one are folks using? > > Also, is using gl-5 a big no no for the gearbox/carriers? The book > states the gl-5 is to be used in the differentials. I'd like to nail > this down before i go about changing out all the fluids and a search > of the site has turned up nothing. I don't even think i can find GL-1 > 85/90W anymore. > > Thanks, > -Bruce > Blatant plug time again, chaps (but relevant at least). I sell Evolution2 gear oil which is Fully Synthetic 75w90 and is both GL5 and GL4 compatible (and further backwards as well). I've used it in my Volvo gearbox and it made a noticeable positive difference (and lasts 3 times as long). I'm soon to put it into the transfer box and axles and when I did this on my Landy it was like getting a new car almost! For those in the Volvo world I can do 20 litre drums far cheaper than 1 litre bottles but don't tell everyone!! Richard http://shop.difflock.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "rdoveryhoo" Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:20:02 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com IIRC GL5 oil produces byproducts that erode the brass bushings rather than the oil being "too strong". The SAE is what it says irrespective of GL rating. Many fully synthetics are GL4/5 compatible. Richard To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Wes Cherry Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:43:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:29 PM, testy150 wrote: > I had a question about changing the gearbox/carrier oils.. The manual > states gl-1 85/90w OR SAE 40 Engine oil.. Which one are folks using? > > Also, is using gl-5 a big no no for the gearbox/carriers? The book > states the gl-5 is to be used in the differentials. I'd like to nail > this down before i go about changing out all the fluids and a search > of the site has turned up nothing. I don't even think i can find GL-1 > 85/90W anymore. > > Thanks, > -Bruce You should be able to get GL-1 at an industrial lubricant supplier. I had to buy 5 gallons at a cost of around $75. It took about 1 gal total to replace all the gear oil in my 6x6. If anyone in the Seattle area wants some, I'm happy to sell you some. -Wes To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: extrm303 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 19:15:40 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "testy150" wrote: > > I had a question about changing the gearbox/carrier oils.. The manual > states gl-1 85/90w OR SAE 40 Engine oil.. Which one are folks using? > > Also, is using gl-5 a big no no for the gearbox/carriers? The book > states the gl-5 is to be used in the differentials. I'd like to nail > this down before i go about changing out all the fluids and a search > of the site has turned up nothing. I don't even think i can find GL-1 > 85/90W anymore. > > Thanks, > -Bruce NAPA # 65-201, GL1, 90W, 1 Gallon, $19.99 NAPA # 65-205, GL1, 90W, 5 Gallon, $85.96 One needs to order from a "brick and mortar" NAPA store. I've been using this oil for over 7 years in these Volvo trucks. Having just replaced the brass synchros in a ZF it is highly recommended that GL1 be used as outlined in the C303/TGB service manual and user guides. Otherwise it's amazing how Hypoid gear Oil (GL4-5) literally eats the ears off the synchro gear edges vs. using the required mineral oil of GL1. Cheers, Phil Raymond To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "rdoveryhoo" Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:40:10 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Oils for TGBs Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Just for confirmation: From the Manual Engine: 5.7 litres of 20w30, 10w30 or similar (5.2 l without filter) gearbox: 1.2 litres of 80w90 GL1 Transfer box: 1.3 litres of 80w90 GL1 Differentials: 1.5 litres of GL5 80w90 or my lovely Evolution 2 Hub gears: 0.3 litres (front) or 0.4 litres (rear) of GL5 80w90 or my lovely Evolution 2 For those in the UK I can get top quality GL1 quite easily and I'll update with a price soon. Richard www.difflock.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "rdoveryhoo" Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:48:34 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Oils for TGBs Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I have prices for GL1 oil for the UK and Europe, I can ship to the US but I don't see the point! I have to buy a 20 litre drum but only need 5 litres (2.5 to use, 2.5 for next time). It costs me =A32.50 per litre and I can decant into cleaned up engine oil bottles. 5 litres would therefore cost =A312.50 plus =A38.50 shipping. Are there 3 other people who want 5 litres each? Richard www.difflock.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:49:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 6 Nov 2008 at 19:15, extrm303 wrote: > NAPA # 65-201, GL1, 90W, 1 Gallon, $19.99 > > NAPA # 65-205, GL1, 90W, 5 Gallon, $85.96 > > One needs to order from a "brick and mortar" NAPA store. > > I've been using this oil for over 7 years in these Volvo trucks. Having just replaced the > brass synchros in a ZF it is highly recommended that GL1 be used as outlined in the > C303/TGB service manual and user guides. Otherwise it's amazing how Hypoid gear Oil > (GL4-5) literally eats the ears off the synchro gear edges vs. using the required mineral oil > of GL1. I am still a bit puzzled by this generic consensus/statement 'GL4/5 is bad for brass/copper/synchro's'....since at least *some* brands specifically mention 'copper/brass-compatibility' (Penrite, a brand that I was recently checking anyway, being one of the cheaper alternatives for this high spec GL4/5 (cq 70- 75-80-85W140)). (which was in fact what Claes Hellbom used for the rally preparation of mine (Castrol SAF-X / 75W140), for at least most of the drive-train; just not sure whether he also used it for the gear-box or T-case; enquiry pending) (but at least it was the only bottle/type he supplied me with to use for maintenance en-route, nothing else for gearbox/T-case) And after some extensive reading on the topic of these wide 'temperature' range gear oils, I concluded that it definitely wouldn't hurt to have the lovely 'thick-film' shock-absorbing qualities[*], without affecting cold-viscosity , even if all other qualities (temperature-resistance) stayed the same. [*] there exists an even higher specified gear oil from Statoil (GEARWAY S6 85W- 250), I just can't get my hands on it, not even find a price in Europe (while Statoil is a Norwegian brand/oil-company, AFAIK) PS: feel free to reject all these exotic oils with the argument 'overkill'....;)) (in the past, I never got really impressed with lubrication/friction arguments/analyses either, at most in the context of excessive ambient heat (or extreme arctic cold), but I took immediate liking to this 'shock-load' argument, envisioning the air-born jumps we did in the Gobi....:)) Btw, I not even sure whether it is possible to have a *mineral/dino* version of GL4/5, instead of synthetic, perhaps part of the confusion/misunderstanding is based on that, cq today's options vs the old days? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "limpan4all" Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 17:06:40 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com The problem is Sulphur, if the GL4/5 smells bad eg. "stinks" it contains Sulphur. The Sulphur will corrod all Copper alloy metal parts and at the same time degrade the GL5/5 oil. So if a GL4/5 oil without Sulphur is to be find it will work just fine. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:34:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Maintenance Question Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 9 Nov 2008 at 17:06, limpan4all wrote: > The problem is Sulphur, if the GL4/5 smells bad eg. "stinks" it > contains Sulphur. The Sulphur will corrod all Copper alloy metal parts > and at the same time degrade the GL5/5 oil. > So if a GL4/5 oil without Sulphur is to be find it will work just fine. Still have to check the full data-sheets of Castrol SAF-X to see it mentions this copper/brass compatibility in specific (the bottle does not mention it), but given your description, I tend to think it is safe; same for the 75W140's that I found locally (forgot brand). (btw, IIRC, the SAF-X bottle even specifies that it meets the higher grade GL6 (which officially doesn't exist *anymore*, apparently (argument being that GL5 meets the same spec's)) (but alas, this SAF-X is too expensive to keep using anyway, hence my search for cheaper xxW140 alternatives (Claes was sponsored by them, so his choice was obvious, cq his preference made sense....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] http://www.motul.de/i/prd/api.htm A Dutch historic note possibly explaining why many people think high-end gear oil (hypoid/differential) is not okay for older gearboxes: (hypoid oil *used* to contain sulphur, which is bad for brass (& copper?)) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: afval in dieselolie From: "KE" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 08:09:41 +0200 Newsgroups: nl.auto "Omnibus" schreef in bericht news:4bc8ab5c$0$22940$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... > > "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote in message > news:Xns9D5CA1C591AF0wjmarkerinka1nl@130.133.4.10... >> "KE" wrote in >> news:33363$4bc83f03$5ed488fe$3147@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl: >> >> > Volgens >> > >> > http://www.amt.nl/web/Nieuws/Algemeen/Tonen-Nieuws-Algemeen/Eindhovense-vinding-maakt-diesel-schoner.htm >> > >> > kan een dieselmotor schoner woren >> > indien >> > er cyclohexanon (afvalprodukt) aan wordt toegevoegd, volgens een >> > proefschift aan de TU Eindhoven. >> > >> > >> >> Mooi, kan de zwavel weer terug, en de smering weer op normaal niveau. > > Werkt zwavel inderdaad smerend bij diesel? Ja, maar het had ook weer nadelen. Er ontstonden zwavelverbindingen, wat weer slecht was voor de motorolie, zodat je vaker moest verversen. Ook kan een roetfilter er niet tegen. In hypoid cardanolie zat vroeger veel zwavel voor de smering, zodat je het niet mocht gebruiken als er messing lagerbussen in zaten. Voor de smerende werking van zwavel bestaan er nu betere alternatieven in dopes. http://www.xs4all.nl/~bosq/wetten/zwavel%20in%20diesel.pdf http://www.pon-cat.com/en/Pon-Power--Pon-Equipment/Pon-Power/Pon-Power-Netherlands/ponpower-caterpillar-pon-cat/Duurzaamheid/Emissies-in-de-scheepvaart1/Verschillende-brandstoffen/ Subject: Re: afval in dieselolie From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: 17 Apr 2010 11:53:19 GMT Newsgroups: nl.auto "KE" wrote in news:58bfc$4bc950a3$5ed488fe$25382@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl: > "Omnibus" schreef in bericht > news:4bc8ab5c$0$22940$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... >> >> "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote in message >> news:Xns9D5CA1C591AF0wjmarkerinka1nl@130.133.4.10... >>> "KE" wrote in >>> news:33363$4bc83f03$5ed488fe$3147@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl: >>> >>> > Volgens >>> > >> http://www.amt.nl/web/Nieuws/Algemeen/Tonen-Nieuws-Algemeen/Eindhovense- >> v >>> > inding-maakt-diesel-schoner.htm kan een dieselmotor schoner woren >>> > indien >>> > er cyclohexanon (afvalprodukt) aan wordt toegevoegd, volgens een >>> > proefschift aan de TU Eindhoven. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> Mooi, kan de zwavel weer terug, en de smering weer op normaal niveau. >> >> Werkt zwavel inderdaad smerend bij diesel? >> > Ja, maar het had ook weer nadelen. Er ontstonden zwavelverbindingen, wat > weer slecht was voor de motorolie, zodat je vaker moest verversen. Ook > kan een roetfilter er niet tegen. In hypoid cardanolie zat vroeger veel > zwavel voor de smering, zodat je het niet mocht gebruiken als er messing > lagerbussen in zaten. Voor de smerende werking van zwavel bestaan er nu > betere alternatieven in dopes. Interessant, thanx. Dat verklaart nl. ook waarom nogal wat mensen blijven beweren dat high-end transmissie-olie (=hypoid/GL4-5-6) niet geschikt is voor oudere transmissies, met name vanwege messing synchro-ringen (misschien ook slecht voor koperen afdichtringen?)....ooit klopte die bewering dus, waarschijnlijk inclusief officiele waarschuwingsteksten; zelf heb ik het sindsdien zelfs in de meest uitgebreide data-sheets nooit ergens aangetroffen. > http://www.xs4all.nl/~bosq/wetten/zwavel%20in%20diesel.pdf > http://www.pon-cat.com/en/Pon-Power--Pon-Equipment/Pon-Power/Pon-Power-Ne > therlands/ponpower-caterpillar-pon-cat/Duurzaamheid/Emissies-in-de-scheep > vaart1/Verschillende-brandstoffen/ > > -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Subject: Re: afval in dieselolie From: "KE" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:38:18 +0200 Newsgroups: nl.auto "Willem-Jan Markerink" schreef in bericht news:Xns9D5D8D4541646wjmarkerinka1nl@130.133.4.10... > "KE" wrote in > news:58bfc$4bc950a3$5ed488fe$25382@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl: > >> "Omnibus" schreef in bericht >> news:4bc8ab5c$0$22940$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... >>> >>> "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote in message >>> news:Xns9D5CA1C591AF0wjmarkerinka1nl@130.133.4.10... >>>> "KE" wrote in >>>> news:33363$4bc83f03$5ed488fe$3147@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl: >>>> >>>> > Volgens >>>> > >>> http://www.amt.nl/web/Nieuws/Algemeen/Tonen-Nieuws-Algemeen/Eindhovense- >>> v >>>> > inding-maakt-diesel-schoner.htm kan een dieselmotor schoner woren >>>> > indien >>>> > er cyclohexanon (afvalprodukt) aan wordt toegevoegd, volgens een >>>> > proefschift aan de TU Eindhoven. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> Mooi, kan de zwavel weer terug, en de smering weer op normaal niveau. >>> >>> Werkt zwavel inderdaad smerend bij diesel? >>> >> Ja, maar het had ook weer nadelen. Er ontstonden zwavelverbindingen, wat >> weer slecht was voor de motorolie, zodat je vaker moest verversen. Ook >> kan een roetfilter er niet tegen. In hypoid cardanolie zat vroeger veel >> zwavel voor de smering, zodat je het niet mocht gebruiken als er messing >> lagerbussen in zaten. Voor de smerende werking van zwavel bestaan er nu >> betere alternatieven in dopes. > > Interessant, thanx. > Dat verklaart nl. ook waarom nogal wat mensen blijven beweren dat high-end > transmissie-olie (=hypoid/GL4-5-6) niet geschikt is voor oudere > transmissies, > met name vanwege messing synchro-ringen (misschien ook slecht voor koperen > afdichtringen?)....ooit klopte die bewering dus, waarschijnlijk inclusief > officiele waarschuwingsteksten; zelf heb ik het sindsdien zelfs in de > meest > uitgebreide data-sheets nooit ergens aangetroffen. > > >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~bosq/wetten/zwavel%20in%20diesel.pdf >> http://www.pon-cat.com/en/Pon-Power--Pon-Equipment/Pon-Power/Pon-Power-Ne >> therlands/ponpower-caterpillar-pon-cat/Duurzaamheid/Emissies-in-de-scheep >> vaart1/Verschillende-brandstoffen/ In de jaren 60 was het algemeen bekend dat messing (puur koper is erg zacht) niet bestand was tegen hypoid cardanolie. Destijds had ik vaak contact met een Shell handelaar (deze Shell-olie heette toen Spirax) die me vertelde dat het dat een paar druppeltjes Spirax het zelfde effect had als een een proef met een paar druppeltjes Wynns friction proof, waar vertegenwoordigers destijds bedrijven mee bezochten (een proef met een kogel op een wieltje in een bakje met water). mineral-differential(hypoid??) = sulphur & synthetic = no sulphur?: http://www.islandoilsupply.com/shell/gearoils.htm#SPIRAX xxxxxxxxxxxxx # Shell SPIRAX® Heavy Duty Gear Oils SAE 80W-90 and 85W-140 Shell SPIRAX HD Gear Oils are extreme-pressure, multigrade, multipurpose gear lubricants for automotive differentials and manual transmissions. # Contain a sulfur-phosphorus additive system for excellent load carrying capacity # Minimize wear, protect against scuffing # Protect against rust, corrosion and foaming Shell SPIRAX HD Gear Oils are available in two SAE viscosity multigrades: 80W-90 and 85W-140. They provide MIL-L-2105D level performance and meet API service classifications GL-5 and MT-1. They also meet Mack GO-H requirements. Shell SPIRAX HD 80W-90, Shell's primary recommendation for passenger cars and light trucks, meets Chrysler, Ford, General Motors and imported car viscosity requirements. Shell SPIRAX HD 85W-140, Shell's primary recommendation for both on- and off-highway fleets, is especially suitable for heavy duty equipment or mixed fleets used in industrial or commercial applications. Return to Gear Oils Shell SPIRAX® S Gear Oils SAE 75W-90 and 80W-140 Shell SPIRAX Gear Oils are heavy duty, synthetic lubricants that are formulated to meet the severe demands imposed by cold weather and high operating temperatures. In addition to the performance characteristics of SPIRAX HD, SPIRAX S Gear Oils excel in: # Low temperature performance # High temperature stability # Water separation # Resistance to viscosity loss by shearing Shell SPIRAX S Gear Oils meet the performance requirements of the following major specifications: API service classifications GL-5 and MT-1 Rockwell International specification 0-76-E (75W-90) and 0-76-B (80W-140); Eaton Axle division PS-037; Mack Truck GO-H GO-H/S; Dana Corporation, Axle Division; General Electric D 50E9C; Harnischfeger (PH) 474; and MIL-L-2105D. xxxxxxxxxxxxx Spirax A & G: http://www.shell.com/static/global/downloads/brochures/product_flyer_spirax_a_g.pdf Spirax S: http://www.shellusserver.com/products/pdf/SpiraxS.pdf Spirax HD: http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-en/downloads/shell_for_businesses/oils_lubricants/1-08.pdf Spirax EW: http://www.shellusserver.com/products/pdf/SpiraxEW.pdf Spirax GSX transmission (not hypoid/EP/differential/spiral?): http://www.shellusserver.com/products/pdf/SpiraxGSX.pdf (includes copper-corrosion test!) http://www.transplant.co.za/html/spirax.html (spirax G(S)(X) = GL4 / A(S)(X) = GL5) http://www.moodydirect.co.uk/spare-parts-catalogue/shell-lubricants-tellus-spirax.pdf