To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:24:24 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Has anyone checked recently whether the OEM exhaust (Volvo #643 784) is still available? (and for what price?) And/or: has there ever been a serial aftermarket solution in SS (stainless steel)? (probably only in Sweden, if at all) Also, my exhaust was damaged/bend in its previous life....as such not uncommon (muffler-fronts bend downwards?), but somehow the force was transferred further upwards, creating a kink in/near the headers....so I probably need a replacement for that as well.... Which then raises the question if there were ever tuned- headers/extractors made for this engine (could even be compatible with B18 or B20?)? I will have access to a (temporarily) donor rear-exhaust, so I can have a 1:1 copy made in stainless steel....and I will have this job done at a professional/large custom-exhaust shop in Holland, who might be interested in a serial production, if there is enough demand (they have done this for dozens of other vehicles in the past). (as a price estimate: the custom one-off SS-exhaust (front to rear) I had once made for my HJ60 Land Cruiser (custom, because we mounted a Genie extractor (diesel) at the same time) was about 1000 euro (US$1200), their serial-production SS pipes are about 700-900 euro I believe....perhaps a tad less because the Volvo system seems relatively short (yet complex; I wonder if this shop would copy it 1:1, or favor something more smart & simple) So, if anyone is interested in this solution, thereby also justifying a serial production for them, let me know (non-binding/price- depending intent-only, of course). Any other tips & tricks for such an aftermarket solution are also welcome, in particular if I have to pay attention to under-floor obstructions on different vehicles, like PTO-gear/PTO-winch/PTO- hydro/hydro-tank etc). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: From: "Mats Larsson" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:20:30 +0200 Subject: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > Has anyone checked recently whether the OEM exhaust (Volvo #643 784) > is still available? (and for what price?) > And/or: has there ever been a serial aftermarket solution in SS > (stainless steel)? (probably only in Sweden, if at all) > > Also, my exhaust was damaged/bend in its previous life....as such not > uncommon (muffler-fronts bend downwards?), but somehow the force was > transferred further upwards, creating a kink in/near the > headers....so I probably need a replacement for that as well.... > Which then raises the question if there were ever tuned- > headers/extractors made for this engine (could even be compatible > with B18 or B20?)? > > I will have access to a (temporarily) donor rear-exhaust, so I can > have a 1:1 copy made in stainless steel....and I will have this job > done at a professional/large custom-exhaust shop in Holland, who > might be interested in a serial production, if there is enough demand > (they have done this for dozens of other vehicles in the past). > > (as a price estimate: the custom one-off SS-exhaust (front to rear) I > had once made for my HJ60 Land Cruiser (custom, because we mounted a > Genie extractor (diesel) at the same time) was about 1000 euro > (US$1200), their serial-production SS pipes are about 700-900 euro I > believe....perhaps a tad less because the Volvo system seems > relatively short (yet complex; I wonder if this shop would copy it > 1:1, or favor something more smart & simple) > > So, if anyone is interested in this solution, thereby also justifying > a serial production for them, let me know (non-binding/price- > depending intent-only, of course). > > Any other tips & tricks for such an aftermarket solution are also > welcome, in particular if I have to pay attention to under-floor > obstructions on different vehicles, like PTO-gear/PTO-winch/PTO- > hydro/hydro-tank etc). Have a look at this site they maybe can help you with yuor problem http://www.ferrita.com/ Mats Larsson( not yet owner of un 303 but looking) To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:22:29 +0200 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 17 Sep 2005 at 16:20, Mats Larsson wrote: > Have a look at this site they maybe can help you with yuor problem > > http://www.ferrita.com/ Nothing listed for TGB's, AFAICS.... (one would assume that *if* they have this particular exhaust in their (fabrication)system, that they would list it....while it doesn't make sense for me to drive up there, for only a one-off custom-job....can do the same in Holland....it's only the serial potential that warrants the effort, not their custom-job expertise.... They *do* list some models for older Volvo cars though, so in theory it's just a matter of time....;)) I also know that some USA-members have already done a custom-job, but they are probably more inclined to do so, since shipping even stock exhausts across the pond is inefficient, even if they *are* available....a local & custom SS-job makes more sense in that context. (but if a serial production ever gets started there, that might still be a solution to this side of the pond, despite shipping cost/time....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:46:46 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > Has anyone checked recently whether the OEM exhaust (Volvo #643 784) > is still available? (and for what price?) > And/or: has there ever been a serial aftermarket solution in SS > (stainless steel)? (probably only in Sweden, if at all) > > Also, my exhaust was damaged/bend in its previous life....as such not > uncommon (muffler-fronts bend downwards?), but somehow the force was > transferred further upwards, creating a kink in/near the > headers....so I probably need a replacement for that as well.... > Which then raises the question if there were ever tuned- > headers/extractors made for this engine (could even be compatible > with B18 or B20?)? > > I will have access to a (temporarily) donor rear-exhaust, so I can > have a 1:1 copy made in stainless steel....and I will have this job > done at a professional/large custom-exhaust shop in Holland, who > might be interested in a serial production, if there is enough demand > (they have done this for dozens of other vehicles in the past). > > (as a price estimate: the custom one-off SS-exhaust (front to rear) I > had once made for my HJ60 Land Cruiser (custom, because we mounted a > Genie extractor (diesel) at the same time) was about 1000 euro > (US$1200), their serial-production SS pipes are about 700-900 euro I > believe....perhaps a tad less because the Volvo system seems > relatively short (yet complex; I wonder if this shop would copy it > 1:1, or favor something more smart & simple) > > So, if anyone is interested in this solution, thereby also justifying > a serial production for them, let me know (non-binding/price- > depending intent-only, of course). > > Any other tips & tricks for such an aftermarket solution are also > welcome, in particular if I have to pay attention to under-floor > obstructions on different vehicles, like PTO-gear/PTO-winch/PTO- > hydro/hydro-tank etc). WJ, In the C-series parts manual, there are two different sets of intake and exhaust manifolds. One is the standard combined unit and the second is a divorced intake and exhaust manifold set. The separate exhaust manifold appears to be the same as that used on the 164E sedan. The FI exhaust manifold is very close to being OEM headers. That still does not solve the problem of the intake. One choice is to use the aluminum manifold from the 164E and replace the FI throttle body with a single downdraft carburetor or use the Volvo Penta AQ 165 intake with its three Solex downdraft carburetors. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: John Calvert Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I am a distributor for IPD here in the USA. Take a look at this page of their older headers. doesn't it use the 20B? http://www.ipdusa.com/ProductsCat.aspx?CategoryID=162&NodeID=5077&RootID=629 JC --------------------------------- John Calvert Rocketeer Performance 6210 Paso Los Cerritos, Suite A San Jose, CA 95120 USA Main: 408.674.1593 Fax: 408.997.9407 Authorized distributors for Wilwood Custom Brake Kits, Upsolute Chip Tuning, H&R, Tein, Team Dynamic Wheels, Jehnert Sound Panels and more... For the latest news and happenings sign up for our Newsletter. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "David Touitou" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:20:50 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Molloy" wrote: > WJ, > In the C-series parts manual, there are two different sets of > intake and exhaust manifolds. One is the standard combined unit and > the second is a divorced intake and exhaust manifold set. The > separate exhaust manifold appears to be the same as that used on the > 164E sedan. The FI exhaust manifold is very close to being OEM > headers. That still does not solve the problem of the intake. One > choice is to use the aluminum manifold from the 164E and replace the > FI throttle body with a single downdraft carburetor or use the Volvo > Penta AQ 165 intake with its three Solex downdraft carburetors. AFAIK the two setup also have a different air filter box : the one in plastic alone or the in aluminium + the one in plastic (empty). You can find 164 standard (and I suppose "sport") exhaust manifolds by KG Trimning (and also any performance part for the B30 : Staged cylinder heads, valves, pistons, 3.2L engines, camshafts, etc, they even do a Turbo cylinders head). The exhaust page is here : http://www.kgtrimning.com/extraktor.htm I have their 2003 PDF catalog 3.8MB, I don't know if I can upload it in the file area here. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "djklabbe" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:43:58 -0000 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > On 17 Sep 2005 at 16:20, Mats Larsson wrote: > > > Have a look at this site they maybe can help you with yuor problem > > > > http://www.ferrita.com/ > > Nothing listed for TGB's, AFAICS.... > (one would assume that *if* they have this particular exhaust in > their (fabrication)system, that they would list it....while it > doesn't make sense for me to drive up there, for only a one-off > custom-job....can do the same in Holland....it's only the serial > potential that warrants the effort, not their custom-job > expertise.... > > They *do* list some models for older Volvo cars though, so in theory > it's just a matter of time....;)) > > I also know that some USA-members have already done a custom-job, but > they are probably more inclined to do so, since shipping even stock > exhausts across the pond is inefficient, even if they *are* > available....a local & custom SS-job makes more sense in that > context. > (but if a serial production ever gets started there, that might still > be a solution to this side of the pond, despite shipping > cost/time....:)) www.ferrita.com has a exhaustsystem in stainless steel for approximately 5000 SKr (Swedish crowns) The muffler is almost the same as the back muffler for volvo 140 To: From: Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:56:43 +0200 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Yes, Ferrita does make exhaust systems for the Volvo C series. I just dismounted one from my TGB20 and there's a little label saying "Ferrita Sweden AB, TGB11/13/20". regards Peter To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:35:11 +0200 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 17 Sep 2005 at 17:43, djklabbe wrote: > www.ferrita.com has a exhaustsystem in stainless steel for > approximately 5000 SKr (Swedish crowns) That's not a bad price at all....complete system, front to back? (apart from the headers of course) > The muffler is almost the same as the back muffler for volvo 140 Hmm....but the one you mention above is a dedicated C3-series muffler, or 'just' a 140-series? (and if 140: is it just a tad different in shape, or does it also require slight changes when mounting on a C3? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:35:12 +0200 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 17 Sep 2005 at 19:56, petgus@bredband.net wrote: > Yes, Ferrita does make exhaust systems for the Volvo C series. I just > dismounted one from my TGB20 and there's a little label saying > "Ferrita Sweden AB, TGB11/13/20". Hmm....but it's not very likely that the military mounted stainless steel units, is it? (and a TGB20 is the least likely to have been in private hands long enough for a conversion) Also note that the name of the company suggests a focus on *ferrous* steel, not stain-less....:)) Even more pessimistic (not meant personally!): The fact that they *once* made this exhaust doesn't tell much whether they *still* do....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:41:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 17 Sep 2005 at 16:20, David Touitou wrote: > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Molloy" wrote: > > WJ, > > In the C-series parts manual, there are two different sets of > > intake and exhaust manifolds. One is the standard combined unit and > > the second is a divorced intake and exhaust manifold set. The > > separate exhaust manifold appears to be the same as that used on the > > 164E sedan. The FI exhaust manifold is very close to being OEM > > headers. That still does not solve the problem of the intake. One > > choice is to use the aluminum manifold from the 164E and replace the > > FI throttle body with a single downdraft carburetor or use the Volvo > > Penta AQ 165 intake with its three Solex downdraft carburetors. > > AFAIK the two setup also have a different air filter box : the one in > plastic alone or the in aluminium + the one in plastic (empty). The additional vertical alu-box is a later upgrade (more than a factory difference back then, TTBOMK). I bought such an alu-box in Sweden, from a company that had them as surplus-stock, from a cancelled military order (military base was closed before they the conversion-operation was finished (or perhaps even before it was started)). Only 30 euro, not a bad price for safety. (according to the seller the main purpose was/is to avoid the backfiring and (flammable) interaction between carburators & filter) (I would love to hear some more opinions about this, before recommending it to others, and referring them to the seller) > You can find 164 standard (and I suppose "sport") exhaust manifolds by > KG Trimning (and also any performance part for the B30 : Staged > cylinder heads, valves, pistons, 3.2L engines, camshafts, etc, they > even do a Turbo cylinders head). > The exhaust page is here : http://www.kgtrimning.com/extraktor.htm Hmm....only see one item dedicated to B30, but that might not tell it all of course. > I have their 2003 PDF catalog 3.8MB, I don't know if I can upload it > in the file area here. I assume nothing like this exists today ('2005'?), nor the one you have is still online on their site somewhere? Feel free to send it to me by mail, and I'll put it online on my site. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: From: Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:55:52 +0200 Subject: Re: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com My TGB20 with stainless-steal exhaust from Ferrita came directly from the military. I have also seen several military TGB's with this stainless- steal system so I guess the military changed to stainless steal when needed. The label on my system clearly says, TGB11/13/20 and it's a complete system (2 mufflers and pipe). //Peter To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:03:47 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 17 Sep 2005 at 15:46, Jim Molloy wrote: > WJ, > In the C-series parts manual, there are two different sets of > intake and exhaust manifolds. One is the standard combined unit and > the second is a divorced intake and exhaust manifold set. The > separate exhaust manifold appears to be the same as that used on the > 164E sedan. The FI exhaust manifold is very close to being OEM > headers. That still does not solve the problem of the intake. One > choice is to use the aluminum manifold from the 164E and replace the > FI throttle body with a single downdraft carburetor or use the Volvo > Penta AQ 165 intake with its three Solex downdraft carburetors. I was told this (otherwise very interesting) Penta version would not fit in the C3, with either intake or carburator(s) being obstructed by the right-hand seat and/or the large metal beam over the engine. Also, I believe one of the earlier Dakar C303's used 3 carburators too (but Weber I think (while stock configuration is Zenith- Stromberg, not?)), for 200hp (close to both Penta and some of the FI car versions, IIRC). But while talking to people pondering/favoring this 3-carburator concept, none has been able to tell me what that would do for mileage....I have the nasty feeling that it gets at least 50% worse, going only by the horsepower difference (120 vs 200)....:)) All comments & opinions welcome!....;)) Willem (who doesn't mind more power, but already objects strongly to it's current reach of 300km @90km/h....8-)) Jan (I am only used to that at 180km/h in a diesel Land Cruiser....;)))) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bo_Ahlstr=F6m?= Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:08:33 +0200 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: >On 17 Sep 2005 at 19:56, petgus@bredband.net wrote: > > > >>Yes, Ferrita does make exhaust systems for the Volvo C series. I just >>dismounted one from my TGB20 and there's a little label saying >>"Ferrita Sweden AB, TGB11/13/20". >> >> > >Hmm....but it's not very likely that the military mounted stainless >steel units, is it? (and a TGB20 is the least likely to have been in >private hands long enough for a conversion) > >Also note that the name of the company suggests a focus on *ferrous* >steel, not stain-less....:)) > >Even more pessimistic (not meant personally!): >The fact that they *once* made this exhaust doesn't tell much whether >they *still* do....;)) > The Ferrita shop/factory is only 2km away from where I live so I have been there a couple of times. They make exhaust systems in stainless steel for all kinds of cars, including homebuilts. I could ask them what they think about making a system for a TGB11. One thing I would like to ask is if all vibrations in the TGB11, seems to plenty of them ;-), might not make stainless steel the best choice for an exhaust system. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:16:55 +0200 Subject: Re: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 18 Sep 2005 at 17:55, petgus@bredband.net wrote: > My TGB20 with stainless-steal exhaust from Ferrita came directly from > the military. Wow, cool!....:)) > I have also seen several military TGB's with this > stainless-steal system so I guess the military changed to stainless > steal when needed. Lovely, one more detail about Swedish civilisation/culture to rave about abroad....:)))) > The label on my system clearly says, TGB11/13/20 > and it's a complete system (2 mufflers and pipe). Thanx for this interesting observation! Pessimistic note: It *could* be that the military only ordered an X-amount of exhausts, and Ferrita neither stocks any today, nor is planning another batch (because demand is too low). Anyone checked at Ferrita recently? Perhaps even one or more part numbers? (the least thing they could do is pull out their old drawings, and quote a price for a new batch) If nobody here has enquired recently, I will send them a request by mail. (also wondering how likely it is that this part is known at their foreign distributors (they list quite a few), if only the military ordered them back then....anyone ever enquired through a foreign Ferrita distributor too?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:39:45 +0200 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 18 Sep 2005 at 18:08, Bo Ahlstr=F6m wrote: > Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > > >On 17 Sep 2005 at 19:56, petgus@bredband.net wrote: > > > > > > > >>Yes, Ferrita does make exhaust systems for the Volvo C series. I just > >>dismounted one from my TGB20 and there's a little label saying > >>"Ferrita Sweden AB, TGB11/13/20". > >> > >> > > > >Hmm....but it's not very likely that the military mounted stainless > >steel units, is it? (and a TGB20 is the least likely to have been in > >private hands long enough for a conversion) > > > >Also note that the name of the company suggests a focus on *ferrous* > >steel, not stain-less....:)) > > > >Even more pessimistic (not meant personally!): > >The fact that they *once* made this exhaust doesn't tell much whether > >they *still* do....;)) > > > > > The Ferrita shop/factory is only 2km away from where I live so I have > been there a couple of times. They make exhaust systems in stainless > steel for all kinds of cars, including homebuilts. I could ask them what > they think about making a system for a TGB11. > One thing I would like to ask is if all vibrations in the TGB11, seems > to plenty of them ;-), might not make stainless steel the best choice > for an exhaust system. Hmm....but isn't stainless steel more ductile (flexible) than ordinary steel? Never heard this argument against SS in Land Cruisers, neither serial nor custom jobs.... (the only thing I would do different in hindsight, is mounting a flexible SS joint (the stuff with wire-mesh) on the end of the exhaust, as a kind of crush-zone when running into objects/solid- ground, but that is only in the context of exhausts that run to the rear of the vehicle....for side-exhausts like on the C3 this isn't relevant) (otherwise this is also a nice way to put an old/broken flex-joint into new use....:)) Side-note: The SS exhaust Ferrita has apparently produced for the military (see other postings) did not have to deal with the civil-typical PTO system (nor PTO hydro-tanks (mostly under left-side floor)). Would be nice if anyone could confirm that any conflict in that context is highly impossible....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "djklabbe" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:29:02 -0000 Subject: Re: SV: [Volvo303] Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > On 17 Sep 2005 at 17:43, djklabbe wrote: > > > www.ferrita.com has a exhaustsystem in stainless steel for > > approximately 5000 SKr (Swedish crowns) > > That's not a bad price at all....complete system, front to back? > (apart from the headers of course) > Last summer I askt a military workshop where i could buy a exhaustsystem they told me that Ferita sels the hole system for approximately 5000 SKr (Swedish crowns). the have systems for both type of manifold. > > The muffler is almost the same as the back muffler for volvo 140 > > Hmm....but the one you mention above is a dedicated C3-series > muffler, or 'just' a 140-series? > (and if 140: is it just a tad different in shape, or does it also > require slight changes when mounting on a C3? > > The originalmuffler on the C303 is almost the same as the back muffler for volvo 140 the diferens i known is the size of the pipe on the side when you put the muffler together the pipes has same size. you have to weld a bigger pip to one of the mufflers. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Roy Gardiner" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:24:43 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Stainless [Volvo30?] Exhaust, & header problems? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote [re exhaust upgrades] Willem - Having just picked up my 1314 I find it has the same exhaust blow on one cylinder of the manifold as all the TGBs I've heard so far! Is it just a gasket problem on these engines, or do we have manifold/fastening problems? Like the SS exhaust option but need to get that chuffing manifold sorted first! Roy To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:20:49 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] B30-turbo (was: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 17 Sep 2005 at 16:20, David Touitou wrote: > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Molloy" wrote: > > WJ, > > In the C-series parts manual, there are two different sets of > > intake and exhaust manifolds. One is the standard combined unit and > > the second is a divorced intake and exhaust manifold set. The > > separate exhaust manifold appears to be the same as that used on the > > 164E sedan. The FI exhaust manifold is very close to being OEM > > headers. That still does not solve the problem of the intake. One > > choice is to use the aluminum manifold from the 164E and replace the > > FI throttle body with a single downdraft carburetor or use the Volvo > > Penta AQ 165 intake with its three Solex downdraft carburetors. > > AFAIK the two setup also have a different air filter box : the one in > plastic alone or the in aluminium + the one in plastic (empty). > > You can find 164 standard (and I suppose "sport") exhaust manifolds by > KG Trimning (and also any performance part for the B30 : Staged > cylinder heads, valves, pistons, 3.2L engines, camshafts, etc, they > even do a Turbo cylinders head). > The exhaust page is here : http://www.kgtrimning.com/extraktor.htm > > I have their 2003 PDF catalog 3.8MB, I don't know if I can upload it > in the file area here. Btw, what does a 'turbo' version of this engine incorporate? Not just in terms of power/torque, but also in effort/reliability/fuel-consumption/heat.... Gasoline turbo's can be fun, but I doubt this is good omen for an old gasoline engine....quite different than diesel turbo's too, efficiency-wise....8-)) Any known reliable rally applications? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "David Touitou" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:09:27 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: B30-turbo (was: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > Btw, what does a 'turbo' version of this engine incorporate? > Not just in terms of power/torque, but also in > effort/reliability/fuel-consumption/heat.... Go to http://turbobricks.com/ and read their forum (and links). It seems to be mainly used in street racing or so. David. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 03:24:51 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > I was told this (otherwise very interesting) Penta version would not > fit in the C3, with either intake or carburator(s) being obstructed > by the right-hand seat and/or the large metal beam over the engine. WJ, While going through the process of upgrading my cylinder head with new exhaust valves and hardened seats, I did test the fit of the 164E FI manifold and the Volvo Penta triple carb manifold. Both fit easily in the C-series engine space. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "David Touitou" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:12:54 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > While going through the process of upgrading my cylinder head with > new exhaust valves and hardened seats. Did you use "standard" valves or larger ones ? Actually, I don't know if there is any use in putting larger valves in the B30 on a C-serie : this is made (AFAIK) to give more power at high range (while we want more torque at low/medium range). Has anybody anything to add to this ? David. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:28:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > > While going through the process of upgrading my cylinder head with > > new exhaust valves and hardened seats. > >Did you use "standard" valves or larger ones ? > >Actually, I don't know if there is any use in putting larger valves in >the B30 on a C-serie : this is made (AFAIK) to give more power at high >range (while we want more torque at low/medium range). >Has anybody anything to add to this ? > >David. Bonjour David, I think you are absolutely right, largers valves is something you would do to increase power att higher revs. The 123-ignition will (according to Tommy and other users) give you a lot more torque on low and medium revs so I'm curious on your experience with it. Salut Aryan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Aryan Schmitz http://www.123ignition.se/ aryan.schmitz@korridor.se Tel +46 8 720 19 40 Asp=F6v=E4gen 27 Fax +46 8 720 41 60 SE-125 40 =C4LVSJ=D6 GSM +46 70 749 66 84 Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "David Touitou" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:02:24 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > Bonjour David, Bonjour Aryan 8)) > I think you are absolutely right, largers valves is something you > would do to increase power att higher revs. So not to use at all in the C303. > The 123-ignition will (according to Tommy and other users) give you a lot more torque on low and medium revs so I'm curious on your experience with it. I can wait anymore to receive and fit it in ! On the turbobricks forum they seems to like to remove the visco fan by an electric one too. It does not "give" you more torque, it just does not "eat" the torque 8) I know a Kenlowe fits nicely but if anyone has a cheaper way to do so, I'm interested. David. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:53:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > > Bonjour David, > >Bonjour Aryan 8)) > >> I think you are absolutely right, largers valves is something you >> would do to increase power att higher revs. > >So not to use at all in the C303. Right, unless you want to enlist Paris-Dakar or something ;-) > >> The 123-ignition will (according to Tommy and other users) give you >> a lot more torque on low and medium revs so I'm curious on your >> experience with it. > >I can wait anymore to receive and fit it in ! I'm just waiting on the rim and the safari window to add to the package, should get that this week. >On the turbobricks forum they seems to like to remove the visco fan by >an electric one too. It does not "give" you more torque, it just does >not "eat" the torque 8) I know a Kenlowe fits nicely but if anyone has >a cheaper way to do so, I'm interested. Sounds like a good idea, although an electric fan does not turn "for free" either, the current it draws must be generated which should result in more drag by the generator? If the visco cluch would only let the fan spin when it is needed this sol= ution or an other electromechanical clutch should work just as well. /Aryan . ------------------------------------------------------------------ Aryan Schmitz Korridor AB aryan.schmitz@korridor.se http://www.korridor.se Tel +46 8 720 41 50 info@korridor.se Fax +46 8 720 41 60 Asp=F6v=E4gen 27 GSM +46 70 749 66 84 125 40 Stockholm SMS mailto:0707496684@sms.tele2.se Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "David Touitou" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:03:56 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, Aryan Schmitz wrote: > >On the turbobricks forum they seems to like to remove the visco fan by > >an electric one too. It does not "give" you more torque, it just does > >not "eat" the torque 8) I know a Kenlowe fits nicely but if anyone has > >a cheaper way to do so, I'm interested. > > Sounds like a good idea, although an electric fan does not turn "for > free" either, the current it draws must be generated which should > result in more drag by the generator? That's the usual argument used by people who are fan of visco systems against electrical ones 8) > If the visco cluch would only let the fan spin when it is needed > this solution or an other electromechanical clutch should work just as < well. This gets complicated for me ; it seems to me I've read posts in the group of people not being able to add an electromechanical clutch to the fan arm because of room and/or visco fan design (the arm going through the fan). To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=F8nntass?= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:16:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Quoting David Touitou : > On the turbobricks forum they seems to like to remove the visco fan by > an electric one too. It does not "give" you more torque, it just does > not "eat" the torque 8) I know a Kenlowe fits nicely but if anyone has > a cheaper way to do so, I'm interested. I had an electrical fan on my previous L3314N, and it definitely had a possitive effect. The engine respondet much quicker than with the direct- driven fan, both at low and high speed. I've bought two 16" Zirgo-fans on Ebay. They are 12V, so I'll mount one on each side of the radiator. I'll then have to dismount the original fan, but it seems as it's blocking the air-streem to much anyway. They were 70$ each + 60$ to the post-office. The disadwantage is that they're not waterproof. But it's rather easy to remove the motor, only 3 small bolts and the wire. I've made the fixing-mounts for the front-fan, so I'll hopefully get it mounted, running from my 24-12-converter, soon. Christian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=F8nntass?= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:25:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Quoting Aryan Schmitz : > Sounds like a good idea, although an electric fan does not turn "for > free" either, the current it draws must be generated which should result > in more drag by the generator? When mounting an electrical fan, it's adwiced to adjust the temperature-switch a little higher than the thermostat in the car. If not, the fan might run so much that you don't benefit from it. I've an ide of mounting 2 sensors, one on top (as normal) and one where the water goes out of the radiator. By using a rele I'll be able to let the fan not go on until it goes warm water out of the radiator, and turn off when there's not going warm water into the radiator anymore. By this I'll not run the fan if the car's speed combined with the outer temperature is enough to cool down the water. If I only have the sensor at the bottom, the fan will go on and off like if you mount a light-sensor-switch recieving light from the lamp it turns on and off. > If the visco cluch would only let the fan spin when it is needed this > solution or an other electromechanical clutch should work just as > well. A viscous fan will run all the time, since it needs air to find out when the generator gets warm. Besides, at least Volvos viscous fan doesn't fit the axle holding the original fan (see my mail about this earlier). Christian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:31:52 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 19 Sep 2005 at 7:12, David Touitou wrote: > > While going through the process of upgrading my cylinder head with > > new exhaust valves and hardened seats. > > Did you use "standard" valves or larger ones ? > > Actually, I don't know if there is any use in putting larger valves in > the B30 on a C-serie : this is made (AFAIK) to give more power at high > range (while we want more torque at low/medium range). > Has anybody anything to add to this ? However, anyone who experienced the lack of high-end torque when facing a hill, might not object to more torque there too....:)) It's quite embarrassing having to shift down to 3rd, threathening to 2nd, on a hill that you *know* a tuned Land Cruiser TDi could do in 5th....at the same weight, with half the gearing ratio, at twice the speed, if not more....8-)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:46:50 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 19 Sep 2005 at 10:53, Aryan Schmitz wrote: > >On the turbobricks forum they seems to like to remove the visco fan > >by an electric one too. It does not "give" you more torque, it just > >does not "eat" the torque 8) I know a Kenlowe fits nicely but if > >anyone has a cheaper way to do so, I'm interested. > > Sounds like a good idea, although an electric fan does not turn "for > free" either, the current it draws must be generated which should > result in more drag by the generator? > > If the visco cluch would only let the fan spin when it is needed this > solution or an other electromechanical clutch should work just as > well. The question 'rigid/mechanical fan' vs 'electric fan' is a bit more subtle/complicated, perhaps also more than I tried to explain/argue in the past. A rigid fan indeed sucks quite a lot of power at higher rpm's, 5- 10hp....something an electric fan can never match *But*: at high vehicle speed, the rigid fan is completely useless, it might actually even have a negative effect on radiator/engine cooling....vehicle speed is sufficient all by itself. However, this also means that at low speed & high rpm (heavy offroad/hill-climbs), the electric fan might not be enough.... So the ideal scenario is indeed adding an electromagnetic clutch to the factory rigid fan. (but preferably one that locks without electrical current, and unlocks otherwise....so that at high speed/rpm (unlock) you have sufficient current from the alternator to feed it (aircopumps can also be nasty power drains, look at the typical fuse for those....15- 20A!). Btw, I have also been pondering a bit about the 2" vs 3" radiators, the latter being mounted on both civil & Malaysian C3-series....with the civil version often equipped with a PTO....and it might very well be that the typical PTO-application (standing still, medium rpm, significant load) is what made Volvo decide to mount a 3" radiator, instead of 2".... Remember, most of the overheating problems with gasoline engines occur in slow traffic....simply a lack of cooling by the fan (and often worsened by engine conversions (line-6 to V8), which makes the engine-bay more crowed, = less natural airflow over the engine, especially on the rear (most of the thermic damage occurs in the rear- most cylinders)). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:22:23 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Cylinder Heads, was: Re: Exhaust, OEM & aftermarket, & headers? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "David Touitou" wrote: > > While going through the process of upgrading my cylinder head with > > new exhaust valves and hardened seats. > > Did you use "standard" valves or larger ones ? > > Actually, I don't know if there is any use in putting larger valves in > the B30 on a C-serie : this is made (AFAIK) to give more power at high > range (while we want more torque at low/medium range). > Has anybody anything to add to this ? > > David. David, I used standard size exhaust valves. Teh engine has plenty of power for my needs. I just did not want to worry about running unleaded gasoline. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com From: "Peter Gustafsson" To: Subject: SV: Re: Ferrita exhaust partnumber Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 21:00:48 +0200 Hello WJ, Ferrita part number for front muffler is F3815-000006 and rear muffler is F3815-000007-1. maybe you can post this to the group together with the results from your conversation with Ferrita. Regards Peter From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Exhaust design (was: Stuck in front-wheel-drive (was: [Volvo303] T-case shifting vs stuck in 4wd/6wd, help! Cc: Claes Hellbom , Phil Raymond , "George Vaughan" Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:11:53 +0200 On 29 Apr 2006 at 11:05, Marc Boettcher wrote: > Hi Willem-Jan, > > As I am looking for a new, stainless steel exhaust for my C303 I wonder if > you could share the address of that shop. How much does he charge? The final price (see below) is still a bit subject to finalisation of the 'template', since that was also the mission of this project, to make serial production possible[*]; and for us to complete the template, we need to test/check it further on different C3-series, mostly C303/4x4 and C304/6x6[**]. Note that, to their recommendation, we did not replace the front section (dual-pipe) of the exhaust with stainless steel....that part is apparently hardly ever affected by serious rust, because it gets hot enough to get rid of any moisture, unlike the rest of the exhaust....and assuming mine was already 25 years old, they said it could live on for another 25 years. So the design requires a cut where the two factory pipes are joined into one, right before the first support clamp. [*] all manual work though, not an automated factory, but with this template they can fabricate the exhaust in advance, and then either mount it on your vehicle in their shop (recommended if you are not too far from them (north of Holland, few kilometers below Groningen), or ship it to anywhere on the planet. [**] while their 'central' wheelbase is identical (230cm, compared to the 272cm of my C306), the 4x4 is a bit different near the muffler- exit, being the front spring-hanger of the rear axle, plus the front pivot of the reaction bar. What we designed is an muffler-exit 2cm below the frame-rail, so that there is a range of end-pipe configurations possible, all easily changeable with a pipe-clamp: 1) on mine, it goes straight out for about 25cm, then pointed down at a 45 angle, just before the diff of the front-most rear axle 2) on a shorter wheelbase, the muffler exit-position below the frame- rail allows it to use a 2x 90 degree bend (in the horizontal plane), to the right, then go back, pointing straight forward, and then exit to the side, in front of the wheel (we did consider moving the entire muffler further forward, to have the full 42cm margin for a 230cm wheelbase (compared to mine at 272cm, plus another few centimeters at the front of the system to clear the 5sp of the TGB20), but that would have required a lower muffler position as well (at least 5cm), to clear the T-case support on the right hand side....and for those people who don't like the end pipe exit under their vehicle, the side-exit is possible. Also, the muffler *could* have been mounted even a further 5cm upwards, possibly 10, but that would have required a rather complex set of bends around that T-case support....'spaghetti', as the exhaust-shop calls it....;)) (too many bends isn't good for exhaust flow either) Anyway, what I paid for mine is 730 euro, including VAT (19%), but without shipping cost of course. Yet including labor for the installation, cutting & welding it onto the factory front pipe, plus welding 2 new muffler-supports straight to the frame rail, so a bare unit (support-brackets included of course) should cost a bit less, when being shipped to you (but requires some stainless-steel welding skills, or local labor cost, of course). And for a side-exit, requiring 1-3x 90 degree bends, price would increase by 25-50 euro. When you also want the front section (not the header!) to be replaced in stainless steel (if only to avoid having to connect the rear stainless steel part to the factory front part), it would add about 250 euro to the price, but we haven't made that template yet, because they can only make the template when they first actually create that pipe-section in stainless steel; they can't make the template from the factory pipe (and my front pipe was in splendid condition, as it should be in most C3-series; so for the time being, we left that part out, but for 100% finalisation/perfection of the template, it is still on my list). I will call them next week to sort out Note that if you add this 730+250 euro, it is quite average for a complete stainless steel exhaust; the ones on my TLC HDJ-80 and HJ60 (custom, combined with an extractor from Genie (Australia)), from that same shop, were actually a bit more expensive (1100-1200). Also, if you want it a bit cheaper, and complete end-to-end, Ferrita is still willing to sell you the old factory design, for 4995 SEK, about 550 euro or 700 US$ (they only made the second generation stainless steel, an exact copy of the ordinary steel first generation, without any design-interference by Ferrita (nobody really knows who produced the first generation ordinary steel exhaust)). But: with a minimum order of 5 units, and 8 weeks delivery time. Picture gallery: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/Volvo_Exhaust_2006-04-26 (forgot to take pix of the end-pipe, but it is just a 25cm straight pipe, with a 45 degree downwards bend) Took a few shots more, of that end-pipe section....don't mind the bad composition on some, I held the camera at an arms length, sight unseen....:)) (and an old Canon/Kodak DCS3 plus flash is a nasty heavy bugger at such a position!) PS: the weldings to the frame were left bare for the moment, because the exhaust-guy couldn't duplicate the splendid factory protection, of both red rust-proofing paint and underbody-protection. (btw, can one get that red/orange stuff also in a spray can?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://forum.terrangbil.net/forum_posts.asp%3FTID%3D5445%26PN%3D3%26SID%3Df8ca594e-7e2c-f7293994-6a9231az-dc1ac1a4%26title%3Duppgradering-av-en-tgb-131