To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:59:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: c304 vs 303 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 1 Dec 2004 at 7:12, Steve wrote: > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Freestone" > wrote: > > > > Has anuybody got a picture with a 304 and 303 side by side, for > > comparison purposes? > > > > Cheers > > > > Graham Freestone > > Graham, > > I've just uploaded a pic of my 304 shot side-on (Steven's 304.jpg). > Wheel base is 100 inches. It would be easy for you to re-size a 303 > photo and paste it side by side with my pic for a comparison. Of > course some Photoshop experience will help! According to the English manual, it also has the 'slow' diff's, 3.5:1 instead of 3:1, can you confirm that? (speed 80km/h instead of 100km/h (absolute max 90 & 110 I believe) (and does anyone know if this diff ratio can be concluded from the ID-plate on the diff's?....or is the ratio plain obvious from the ID-plate?....anyone a sample at hand?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: From: "John Allen" Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:32:23 +1000 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Re: c304 vs 303 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Willem-Jan Markerink [mailto:w.j.markerink@a1.nl] > Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 7:59 AM > > On 1 Dec 2004 at 7:12, Steve wrote: > > > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Freestone" > > wrote: > > > > > > Has anuybody got a picture with a 304 and 303 side by side, for > > > comparison purposes? > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Graham Freestone > > > > Graham, > > > > I've just uploaded a pic of my 304 shot side-on (Steven's 304.jpg). > > Wheel base is 100 inches. It would be easy for you to re-size a 303 > > photo and paste it side by side with my pic for a comparison. Of > > course some Photoshop experience will help! > > According to the English manual, it also has the 'slow' diff's, 3.5:1 instead > of 3:1, can you confirm that? > (speed 80km/h instead of 100km/h (absolute max 90 & 110 I believe) > > (and does anyone know if this diff ratio can be concluded from the ID-plate on > the diff's?....or is the ratio plain obvious from the ID-plate?....anyone a > sample at hand?) > Will, I have a C304, Diff ratios 3.44:1 for the C304 from memory compared to 2.9:1 for the C303. The C304 will do 100km/hr with 5000rpm on the engine. It will cruise comfortably at 80kmph. Chassis has top and bottom strap (flat bar) reinforcement on the chassis for improved strength for the additional capacity. C304 Wheelbase 2530mm C303 Wheelbase 2300mm The book I have access to quotes data for - Two C304 versions - Gun tower, Ambulance - Two C303 versions - Basic C303, Mortar Carrier - One C306 version - C306 John Allen To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:51:06 +0100 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Re: c304 vs 303 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 2 Dec 2004 at 10:32, John Allen wrote: > Will, > I have a C304, > > Diff ratios 3.44:1 for the C304 from memory compared to 2.9:1 for the C303. > > The C304 will do 100km/hr with 5000rpm on the engine. It will cruise > comfortably at 80kmph. Hope to receive the ID-tag data from the diff of a 306 firefighter soon, hopefully it is self-explaining. Owner claims a relaxed/sustained 100km/h, that's why I am curious about that one too (and might need some comparison data/code of a proven slow vs fast diff). Still 4sp though, not 5sp like the 306/cargo....probably need a tall floor for the 5sp. > Chassis has top and bottom strap (flat bar) reinforcement on the chassis for > improved strength for the additional capacity. > > C304 Wheelbase 2530mm > C303 Wheelbase 2300mm > > The book I have access to quotes data for > > - Two C304 versions - Gun tower, Ambulance > - Two C303 versions - Basic C303, Mortar Carrier > - One C306 version - C306 Odd, the English manual I saw had 3 versions C304/4x4 listed: Gun tower, Ambulance *and* Mortar Carrier.... http://volvo4x4.com/filehive/manuals//operatorsmanual/VolvoOperatorsManual1.pdf Perhaps it differs from army to army....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "M o B SURPLUS" To: Subject: Volvo diff-(off line) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:11:13 +0100 Hi I have a picture of a diff ID-plate from a TGB 20. Part No on Differential carriers: Diff ratio not same as total axle ratio. 1562047 3,44/1(C304 6x6)TGB 13 1562048 2,91/1(C303)TGB 11 1522994 3,67/1(C306)TGB 20 1522995 3,67/1 1522996 3,67/1 Best regards Mats Bergvall SWEDEN To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:51:06 +0100 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Re: c304 vs 303 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 2 Dec 2004 at 10:32, John Allen wrote: > > Will, > I have a C304, > > Diff ratios 3.44:1 for the C304 from memory compared to 2.9:1 for the C303. > > The C304 will do 100km/hr with 5000rpm on the engine. It will cruise > comfortably at 80kmph. Hope to receive the ID-tag data from the diff of a 306 firefighter soon, hopefully it is self-explaining. Owner claims a relaxed/sustained 100km/h, that's why I am curious about that one too (and might need some comparison data/code of a proven slow vs fast diff). Still 4sp though, not 5sp like the 306/cargo....probably need a tall floor for the 5sp. > Chassis has top and bottom strap (flat bar) reinforcement on the chassis for > improved strength for the additional capacity. > > C304 Wheelbase 2530mm > C303 Wheelbase 2300mm > > The book I have access to quotes data for > > - Two C304 versions - Gun tower, Ambulance > - Two C303 versions - Basic C303, Mortar Carrier > - One C306 version - C306 Odd, the English manual I saw had 3 versions C304/4x4 listed: Gun tower, Ambulance *and* Mortar Carrier.... http://volvo4x4.com/filehive/manuals//operatorsmanual/VolvoOperatorsManual1.pdf Perhaps it differs from army to army....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: "M o B SURPLUS" , Jeff Lenzner Subject: Re: Volvo diff-(off line) Cc: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:55:24 +0100 On 2 Dec 2004 at 20:11, M o B SURPLUS wrote: > Hi > > I have a picture of a diff ID-plate from a TGB 20. > > Part No on Differential carriers: Diff ratio not same as total axle ratio. > > 1562047 3,44/1(C304 6x6)TGB 13 > > 1562048 2,91/1(C303)TGB 11 > > 1522994 3,67/1(C306)TGB 20 > > 1522995 3,67/1 > > 1522996 3,67/1 > > Best regards > Mats Bergvall > SWEDEN Thanx a bunch, now we can compare....:)) Any idea whether the TGB20 could have 3 different units? *If* both 6x6 versions had 2 diff's assigned to them, I could understand, since the center axle has a secondary-drive to the rear-most axle (hence diff's different)....but the 304/6x6 has only one, 306/6x6 even three. Part of the mystery continues, but a lot has cleared, thanx! (the fact that there are 3 different ratio's is also new to me, and many others I am sure) (and yes, I knew final-drive/total-ratio of the axles was roughly 6:1 and 7:1, *but* I also once saw 7.5:1, not confirmed back then, but now it is!) (though nowhere in any manual, these only speak of 2 ratio's, 2.91 and 3.44) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 03:55:48 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] fast C306 firetruck Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello to all, Two days ago, I had the opportunity to take a quick look at a very clean 1979 C306 firetruck recently purchased from a new Volvo importer in Oregon. The new owner drove it to one of my places of work an parked it next to my C303. Jeff Lenzner has been successfully importing Unimog for the past several years. Take a look at: http://www.bat-trade.com The C306 truck labelled as SOLD on his Unimog site now lives near the Oregon Coast and hopefully that truck/owner will be attending Northwest MogFest 2005 in August. I did not realize that the fire service C306 trucks were equipped with the faster axles like the C303 trucks. Very nice to have that top speed and the extra room. Jeff's new site for Volvo trucks is: http://www.viking4x4.com I wish Jeff the very best as he moves into Volvo truck sales with the same commitment and enthusiasm he has shown with the Unimogs. I have no doubt he will successful in this new venture. I will be posting some additional photos of the C306 firetruck on the volvo4x4 site and soon as I figure out the directions from our webmaster. It may take me a day or two. (His directions are fine. My brain is rusty.) Take care..one and all. Happy New Year. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:56:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] fast C306 firetruck Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 1 Jan 2005 at 3:55, Jim Molloy wrote: > Hello to all, > Two days ago, I had the opportunity to take a quick look at a very > clean 1979 C306 firetruck recently purchased from a new Volvo > importer in Oregon. The new owner drove it to one of my places of > work an parked it next to my C303. > > Jeff Lenzner has been successfully importing Unimog for the past > several years. Take a look at: > > http://www.bat-trade.com > > The C306 truck labelled as SOLD on his Unimog site now lives near > the Oregon Coast and hopefully that truck/owner will be attending > Northwest MogFest 2005 in August. I did not realize that the fire > service C306 trucks were equipped with the faster axles like the > C303 trucks. Very nice to have that top speed and the extra room. I pestered Jeff about that detail in the recent past, he even took a picture for me, of the diff ID-tag. I think he describes them as 'fast axles' because they are not, as one might expect, the typical TGB20 diff's, which have the lowest of 3 ratio's, but are the 'middle' ratio, typical for TGB13. 9x33 = 3.67 9x31 = 3.44 11x32 = 2.91 (but OTOH, all that makes sense too in the context of TGB20 having 5sp transmissions, while these C306 firefighters all seem to have a 4sp (my suspicion/explanation being that the engine/tranny hump of the 'wagon' bodies doesn't allow the longer 5sp....only the tall&ongoing floor of the TGB20 probably does)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:43:06 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Axle ratios. Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 20 May 2005 at 14:38, Teppo Rapo wrote: > Teppo Rapo kirjoitti 20.05.2005 kello 14:23: > > > 4X4 = 6:1 > > > 6X6 = 7.05:1 > > > 6X6, TGB20 5sp gearbox = 7,56:1 > > > > This way of course...... > > Hmm.... from this manual > http://www.scout.1g.fi/Files/Volvo/Data/Operations%20Manual_%20Ext/Oper > ationsmanual/manual_swe_1.pdf page 5, I can see the ratio is > 3,41*2,06, that makes 7,02:1 for 4x4 version...??? I'm a bit > confused.... Perhaps C304/4x4, medium wheelbase? (they do have a larger load rating I believe) The teeth-count for pinion & ring-gear is listed in this file: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_diff-ratio.txt -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 20:51:29 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Axle ratios. Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 20 May 2005 at 14:38, Teppo Rapo wrote: > Teppo Rapo kirjoitti 20.05.2005 kello 14:23: > > > 4X4 = 6:1 > > > 6X6 = 7.05:1 > > > 6X6, TGB20 5sp gearbox = 7,56:1 > > > > This way of course...... > > Hmm.... from this manual > http://www.scout.1g.fi/Files/Volvo/Data/Operations%20Manual_%20Ext/Oper > ationsmanual/manual_swe_1.pdf page 5, I can see the ratio is > 3,41*2,06, that makes 7,02:1 for 4x4 version...??? I'm a bit > confused.... > -teppo These are the 3 teeth-combinations....I am a bit too lazy right now, but 3.41 can only exist if you have similar, non-fractional, pairs of teeth.... 9x33 = 3.666666 (x 2.06 = 7.553333 (hence not 7.56) 9x31 = 3.444444 (x 2.06 = 7.095555) 11x32 = 2.909090 (x 2.06 = 5.992727) Btw, just curious: What is the teeth-count on the portals (creating 2.06:1)? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: From: "John Allen" Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 17:12:13 +1000 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Axle ratios. Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Volvo303@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Willem-Jan Markerink Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2005 4:51 AM > Btw, just curious: > What is the teeth-count on the portals (creating 2.06:1)? It is generally better not to have an even division in the teeth Nos to ensure even wear during service life. So avoid an exact 2:1 ratio John Allen To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Teppo Rapo Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 11:46:46 +0300 (EEST) Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Axle ratios. Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Volvo303@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Willem-Jan Markerink Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2005 4:51 AM > Btw, just curious: > What is the teeth-count on the portals (creating 2.06:1)? Based on manual photos http://www.scout.1g.fi/Files/Volvo/Data/Manuals_PDF/volvomanuals/section7rearend3.pdf and this one http://www.scout.1g.fi/Files/Volvo/Data/Manuals_PDF/volvomanuals/section4transmission15.pdf for a smaller wheel, I would quess that it's 33 and 16. Then note that spare manual have totally different gearing as shown in this one for instance: http://www.scout.1g.fi/Files/Volvo/Data/Manuals_PDF/volvomanuals/PartCatalogue17.pdf I belive photo instead. -teppo To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Teppo Rapo Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:30:05 +0300 Subject: [Volvo303] Engine swap + gearing Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello! Just for you info: While seaching information of interchangebility of Rover parts for Volvo I was in contact with Aleksander, he is doing conversion for Rover 300TD engine, he told me that Rover 300 TD fits perfetly, Engine fit straight away with Volvo clutch housing, only difference is fitting in Rover clutch disk against Volvo Clutch axle. all bolt holes etc. are the same. I don't know what kind of clutch plate toi be used. Volvo?? Then while searhing about gearing Volvo, for the problem It looks like that easiest/most convenient solution would be: - TGB20 Diffrentials, lower gearing, six of those "star gear" instead of 4 that all other diffrentials have. Not sure but they should fit in TGB13 axle. - TGB20 5sp gearbox. slightly lower 1 gear etc. gearbor is 5 cm longer and bracket for gearbox and propeller shafts need to be modified accordingly. Gearing does not get as low as I'd like to have it but then everythign would be Volvo parts, thas always advantage when braking up something. So, sifference would be as follows: Gearing now: 1ts gear: 3,87 Transfer GB 2,39 Dif 3,44 Hub 2.06 *Total 65,54* TGB20 1ts gear: 3,92 Transfer GB 2,39 Dif 3,67 Hub 2.06 *Total 70,83* Makes 8 percent differece in gearing..... -teppo To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 18:47:20 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Engine swap + gearing Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 24 May 2005 at 12:30, Teppo Rapo wrote: > Hello! > Just for you info: > While seaching information of interchangebility of Rover parts for > Volvo I was in contact with Aleksander, he is doing conversion for Rover > 300TD engine, he told me that Rover 300 TD fits perfetly, Engine fit > straight away with Volvo clutch housing, only difference is fitting in > Rover clutch disk against Volvo Clutch axle. all bolt holes etc. are the > same. I don't know what kind of clutch plate toi be used. Volvo?? > > Then while searhing about gearing Volvo, for the problem It looks like > that easiest/most convenient solution would be: > - TGB20 Diffrentials, lower gearing, six of those "star gear" instead of > 4 that all other diffrentials have. Hmm....interesting, does tell us something about strenght- considerations....as if 4 wasn't enough. (the proper English name differs for UK vs USA I believe; 'satellite- gears' (located on the diff-cage perimeter, vs the 2 'sun-gears', for each half shaft), or 'spider-gears' ('spur-gears' belong to a planetary gear set I believe (like in auto-transmissions)) > Not sure but they should fit in TGB13 axle. Hmm....this means that by changing ring & pinion (and swapping the 4- gear diff-cage with a 6-gear, you could also increase strength.... Note that similar differences exist with Land Cruiser axles; non- locker axles have only 2 spider gears, factory lockers have 4 (and can only exist on a full-floating axle (ARB lockers for a semi- floating axle have 3 (to allow access to the C-clip on a semi- floater)). Volvo portals are full-floaters by nature, so 4 spider gears was logical....but apparently the TGB20 (with its higher payload) needed 6 spider gears. I now wonder whether this improvement was also based on experience with the other/older TGB's in service? Or: how typical is it for a TGB to destroy a diff? Perhaps only relevant on a 6x6? (where the rear tandem must rotate in sync all the time, possibly a larger factor on-road (non-locked) than the stress of a locked axle offroad?....keep in mind that those spider-gears are a) not meant to absorb much stress/heat while rotating (no bearings!), but take *all* the force with a locked axle (only one half-shaft is locked to the diff-cage, the other half-shaft is locked *through* the spider- gears!) Interesting stuff, sorry if I bored anyone....:)) > - TGB20 5sp gearbox. slightly lower 1 gear etc. gearbor is 5 cm longer > and bracket for gearbox and propeller > shafts need to be modified accordingly. > > Gearing does not get as low as I'd like to have it but then everythign > would be Volvo parts, With a diesel you already gain about a factor 2 in low-end torque....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:52:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: TGB20 as camperbase Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 2 Nov 2005 at 9:24, Roy Gardiner wrote: > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" > wrote: > > > Is it just me, or do others also get the inspiration for a flip-up > > roof [TGB20] camper... > > Me too Willem, lowering the floor looks be easy enough judging by the > excellent pics, more problematic will be sourcing three C303 diffs to > get the gearing right for extended touring. Watch out: In one of my discussions with Claes Hellbom (previously Blomquist, he changed family name to prevent his wife's family name going extinct) at Tatanka, he mentioned that the 2.9 diff gears (5.9 total ratio) would not retrofit to the diff of the TGB13/20 (7.1 & 7.6), because either the housing was too small, or the PTO-drive gears (on the middle axle/diff) to the rear-most axle would not allow that.... (and that PTO-drive is the only thing preventing a straight swap of complete 3rd members....8-)) I guess the only easy way for a TGB20/7.6-ratio is to mount 11.00x16 tires....even with the 4000rpm 2.8L HSI that would still gain about 80km/h.... (7.1 gears at 4250rpm gain 96km/h) My main objection against that is that it's neither good nor efficient for a diesel to rev at maximum rpm most of the time) > My current thinking is to buy a TGB1111 for a front and rear-most > axle swap (leaving you with a 'trialler' TGB1111 to sell) plus a C303 > CWP for the original centre axle case. > > Chosing a 5 speed box version as the starting point, there should be > scope for getting a ZF gearbox specialist to change the 1:1 5th gear > to an 'overdrive' ratio... Even if it would get nasty with the shifting linkage, I would first explore all potential of the ZF 6-speed that is also mounted in the Italian Scam & Bremach (with 6:1 first gear). Once you have that, you could even live with a fixed 1.5x overdrive. > > Even the hard-roof front section could stay intact & in place, only > > using the rear 3/4th for a flip-roof.... > > Yes, I would keep the standard rear floor-pan with it's extra width > and length 'as is', and mount the GRP camper shell onto it (after > lowering it to the same height as the 1314) > > I am due to collect a TGB20 chassis shortly to validate my plans. I know you are far too skilled/demanding to stick with a ready-to-go rectangular box, but did you notice my postings about the German military Dornier Leichtmetall Kabine, 425x220x220cm, about 1000kg? Seems to gain prices of about 1000 Euro with surplus sources. Isolated, 4 little windows, 1 door on the rear. Not a bad candidate for a TGB20....only modification would be lowering it, by creating wheelwells. (otherwise it would become about 20+20cm taller than a TGB13xx box....a bit too much for stability) (but OTOH, it would allow more room for underfloor water- and fuel- tanks....even a grey-water(disposal-water) tank, if need to be, in urban areas/camping) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 03:58:46 +0100 Subject: 2.91/5.99 ratio for PTO-bogie-drive, correction (was: [Volvo303] Re: TGB20 as camperbase Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 2 Nov 2005 at 18:52, Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > On 2 Nov 2005 at 9:24, Roy Gardiner wrote: > > > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" > > wrote: > > > > > Is it just me, or do others also get the inspiration for a flip-up > > > roof [TGB20] camper... > > > > Me too Willem, lowering the floor looks be easy enough judging by > > the excellent pics, more problematic will be sourcing three C303 > > diffs to get the gearing right for extended touring. > > Watch out: > In one of my discussions with Claes Hellbom (previously Blomquist, he > changed family name to prevent his wife's family name going extinct) > at Tatanka, he mentioned that the 2.9 diff gears (5.9 total ratio) > would not retrofit to the diff of the TGB13/20 (7.1 & 7.6), because > either the housing was too small, or the PTO-drive gears (on the > middle axle/diff) to the rear-most axle would not allow that.... (and > that PTO-drive is the only thing preventing a straight swap of > complete 3rd members....8-)) After a recent conversation with Claes, I must apologize to the list for posting the above wrong information; apparently Claes was only talking about an even faster-speed axle, by fabricating new diff gears, higher than the (C303-typical) 2.91/5.99 diff/axle ratio.... Failing this option, he now leans more towards changing the portal gears, even though that would require fabricating new housings, as the gears sit rather tight even as it is....no room to increase the upper/drive gear in size (for higher speed). > I guess the only easy way for a > TGB20/7.6-ratio is to mount 11.00x16 tires....even with the 4000rpm > 2.8L HSI that would still gain about 80km/h.... (7.1 gears at 4250rpm > gain 96km/h) My main objection against that is that it's neither good > nor efficient for a diesel to rev at maximum rpm most of the time) > > > > My current thinking is to buy a TGB1111 for a front and rear-most > > axle swap (leaving you with a 'trialler' TGB1111 to sell) plus a > > C303 CWP for the original centre axle case. > > > > Chosing a 5 speed box version as the starting point, there should be > > scope for getting a ZF gearbox specialist to change the 1:1 5th gear > > to an 'overdrive' ratio... > > Even if it would get nasty with the shifting linkage, I would first > explore all potential of the ZF 6-speed that is also mounted in the > Italian Scam & Bremach (with 6:1 first gear). Once you have that, you > could even live with a fixed 1.5x overdrive. > > > > Even the hard-roof front section could stay intact & in place, > > > only using the rear 3/4th for a flip-roof.... > > > > Yes, I would keep the standard rear floor-pan with it's extra width > > and length 'as is', and mount the GRP camper shell onto it (after > > lowering it to the same height as the 1314) > > > > I am due to collect a TGB20 chassis shortly to validate my plans. > > I know you are far too skilled/demanding to stick with a ready-to-go > rectangular box, but did you notice my postings about the German > military Dornier Leichtmetall Kabine, 425x220x220cm, about 1000kg? > Seems to gain prices of about 1000 Euro with surplus sources. > Isolated, 4 little windows, 1 door on the rear. Not a bad candidate > for a TGB20....only modification would be lowering it, by creating > wheelwells. (otherwise it would become about 20+20cm taller than a > TGB13xx box....a bit too much for stability) (but OTOH, it would allow > more room for underfloor water- and fuel- tanks....even a > grey-water(disposal-water) tank, if need to be, in urban > areas/camping) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "G.R.Baker" Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:36:29 -0000 Subject: Re: 2.91/5.99 ratio for PTO-bogie-drive, correction (was: [Volvo303] Re: TGB20 as camperbase Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Instead of all that trouble to ruin a set of portals why not just buy a Chevy Suburban or simular type vehicle??? To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:56:15 +0100 Subject: Re: 2.91/5.99 ratio for PTO-bogie-drive, correction (was: [Volvo303] Re: TGB20 as camperbase On 6 Dec 2005 at 11:36, G.R.Baker wrote: > Instead of all that trouble to ruin a set of portals why not just buy > a Chevy Suburban or simular type vehicle??? Nonono, not ruining/removing/ditching the portals, just *increasing* the size of the portal-hub assembly housing/casing....since that is limiting *any* gear change in there currently (neither faster nor slower). Still quite a major surgery (and the collector in me doesn't like throwing away components), but the other options are a dilemma too: the only overdrive I have seen thusfar is a fixed ratio (1.5x, can be less in further production), but worse: it can't be used in combination with PTO. And finding a better gearbox will require quite some tinkering with the shift-linkage. (this linkage also becomes a problem with some engine-conversions, as the normal route of those shift-link-rods is blocked (apparently this is the case with the Volvo D5 2.5L diesel, not sure about others)) Willem (for more than a decade wondering why nobody ever created a 3- speed T-case....;)) Jan PS: the presence of splitter-boxes is what *could* make the ZF 6- speed from the Italian Bremach/Scam a nice donor-candidate.... (mostly depending on the question whether it attaches to the T-case, or sits between gearbox and T-case. (it can be had as a underdrive splitter, or an overdrive-splitter) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "G.R.Baker" Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:42:10 -0000 Subject: 2.91/5.99 ratio for PTO-bogie-drive, correction (was: [Volvo303] Re: TGB20 as camperbase Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > > On 6 Dec 2005 at 11:36, G.R.Baker wrote: > > > Instead of all that trouble to ruin a set of portals why not just buy > > a Chevy Suburban or simular type vehicle??? > > Nonono, not ruining/removing/ditching the portals, just *increasing* > the size of the portal-hub assembly housing/casing....since that is > limiting *any* gear change in there currently (neither faster nor > slower). > > Still quite a major surgery (and the collector in me doesn't like > throwing away components), but the other options are a dilemma too: > the only overdrive I have seen thusfar is a fixed ratio (1.5x, can be > less in further production), but worse: it can't be used in > combination with PTO. > And finding a better gearbox will require quite some tinkering with > the shift-linkage. > (this linkage also becomes a problem with some engine-conversions, as > the normal route of those shift-link-rods is blocked (apparently this > is the case with the Volvo D5 2.5L diesel, not sure about others)) > > > Willem (for more than a decade wondering why nobody ever created a 3- > speed T-case....;)) Jan > > PS: the presence of splitter-boxes is what *could* make the ZF 6- > speed from the Italian Bremach/Scam a nice donor-candidate.... > (mostly depending on the question whether it attaches to the T-case, > or sits between gearbox and T-case. > (it can be had as a underdrive splitter, or an overdrive-splitter) I understood what you were saying but changing to a higher gear you ruin the offroad performance, really the onroad as well... the slightest grade would kill your momentum. What I was implying is if you want a vehicle with good highway drivability the C30X series is probably not the best choice. On another note, the 5.99 axles are doing great in my FJ80 with the automatic transmission with overdrive it will run 75mph at 3100rpm. I'm really enjoying it. http://tired-iron.mounet.com/grace4x4/GRBTLC/ George To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:03:17 +0100 Subject: Re: 2.91/5.99 ratio for PTO-bogie-drive, correction (was: [Volvo303] Re: TGB20 as camperbase Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 6 Dec 2005 at 19:42, G.R.Baker wrote: > I understood what you were saying but changing to a higher gear you > ruin the offroad performance, really the onroad as well... the > slightest grade would kill your momentum. *Not* if you start with a diesel, the reason why this entire gear change becomes relevant in the first place. (Claes is currently converting a TGB13xx to the Volvo D5 diesel, with a different (better) adapter than the one from SMT AB in Sweden (apparently those adapters were also specified by Claes, but not found sufficient) Also not sure whether this or any other diesel conversion makes it easier to mount a different/longer gearbox as well (changing from Volvo 4sp to 5sp only results in a better spread, not a lower 1st gear (nor a taller 5th gear)), but if not, then there isn't much choice beyond redesigning the portals....changing the diff's to a higher gear than 5.99 is not possible either. > What I was implying is if > you want a vehicle with good highway drivability the C30X series is > probably not the best choice. Oh yes it is, with the large wheelbase of the 6x6, in particular the C306/TGB20....:)) (but the latter two have more (driveshaft) room (angle) to experiment with different gearboxes as well) > On another note, the 5.99 axles are doing great in my FJ80 with the > automatic transmission with overdrive it will run 75mph at 3100rpm. > I'm really enjoying it. Yes, but that is because you *have* an overdrive!....:)) (a quite significant ratio as well, 0.707, IIRC (that's 1.41x(!)); and one that is also even higher than the 5th gear of the Toyota manual gearbox (which also explains why all automatic J8's (including diesels) have 4.11 diff's, while the manual diesels have 3.7)) Btw, no heavy duty Land Cruiser 6sp manual gearboxes available yet, only in the light duty series (but as those engines get stronger and stronger in each upgrade/generation, they would be quite sufficient in most other applications). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]