To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "walderse" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:06 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com ,--- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Duff" wrote: > Hello group, > > I've been lurking on this site for about six months. I bought a 1975 > TGB11 from David Potter back in December and just picked it up and > drove it home (by way of Moab, Bryce Canyon, Zion, and Vegas). I > even took the kids (ages 4 & 6). > > I had a 710M for about 18 months and finally recognized the truth > that although it was an awesome vehicle in its own right, it was not > suited to my goal of taking the family out for adventures involving > any freeway time! Even a 3 hour drive to the Napa Valley was just > too painful. And the seating in the back was less safe than I > preferred. No desire to bash Pinzes here, just MHO. Hopefully, with > a little work, the Volvo will suit the task. > > My truck is not in pristine condition. There is a fair amount of > body and underbody rust which needs to be fixed before getting some > new paint. The front end seems to growl a bit in 4WD on the > pavement, and there's a vibration that reminds me of the front drive > line vibration on the Pinz, could be the new MTRs? And it's leaking > a little oil (engine I think, but it's coming off the transfer > case). I'll get around to debugging all these things eventually. > > A little personal info: I work at Xerox's PARC on both Xerox > projects and robotics (www.parc.com/modrobots) mostly doing > mechanical design and prototyping with some occasional electronics. > > Thanks for the recent posts on wrenches and key blanks! > > Regards, Dave > > 1975 TGB11 > Woodside, CA David, Like you, I recently took posession of a TGB11 from David Potter. Mne is a 1976 ex Swedsh Fire/Rescue truck. Since last week's arrival, I have made three traverses of the Oregon Cascades and the truck is great to drive. Did get sidelined for about ten minutes yesterday in Springfield, Oregon when I suddenly lost all engine power yet still had lights and the ability to crank over the engine. On closer inspection, the positive lead had slipped off the (+) blade on the coil. Easy fix.=20 One curiosity I have found is the presece of a pair of some type of water(?) fittings extending through the right side of the frame near the mufflers. Does anyone know their function? Am still awaiting the arrival of my service and operator's manuals so am quite in the dark on many details. I recently took the liberty of posting an event on the Calendar section fo this list. Third weekend in August. While there are sure to be many, many Unimogs present as well as a number of Pinzgauers, Haflingers, G-Wagens, VW Vanagon Synchros, it would be nice to have more than just one Volvo C303-series truck present. Finally, does anyone have the list of 24v bulbs used in these trucks readily available either on a scanned page or pdf that can be accessed quickly? Our local NAPA has always been great with 24v bulbs and I would like to pick up spares while I am at home for a couple of days. All help is greatly appreciated. Take care...one and all. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.nrthwestmogfest.com To: From: "Grefven" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:29:11 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: walderse=20 To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:54 PM Subject: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area David, Like you, I recently took posession of a TGB11 from David Potter. Mne is a 1976 ex Swedsh Fire/Rescue truck. Since last week's arrival, I have made three traverses of the Oregon Cascades and the truck is great to drive. Did get sidelined for about ten minutes yesterday in Springfield, Oregon when I suddenly lost all engine power yet still had lights and the ability to crank over the engine. On closer inspection, the positive lead had slipped off the (+) blade on the coil. Easy fix. One curiosity I have found is the presece of a pair of some type of water(?) fittings extending through the right side of the frame near the mufflers. Does anyone know their function? Am still awaiting the arrival of my service and operator's manuals so am quite in the dark on many details.=20 I recently took the liberty of posting an event on the Calendar section fo this list. Third weekend in August. While there are sure to be many, many Unimogs present as well as a number of Pinzgauers, Haflingers, G-Wagens, VW Vanagon Synchros, it would be nice to have more than just one Volvo C303-series truck present. Finally, does anyone have the list of 24v bulbs used in these trucks readily available either on a scanned page or pdf that can be accessed quickly? Our local NAPA has always been great with 24v bulbs and I would like to pick up spares while I am at home for a couple of days. All help is greatly appreciated. Take care...one and all. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.nrthwestmogfest.com Hi! The water connectors you are referring to are most likely mil. specs hookups for an external heater used in extremely cold weather. Sometimes the Swedish climate is very cold and you need to hookup an external heater/circulator to keep the enigine from completely freezing over. I've used one of these on a C306 once while I was in the service. The one we used, for training purposes only (it was in the middle of the summer!), was powered by an electric pump running of the vehicles own battery and the heat was provided by a HUGE kerosene burner/torch. The similar ones are available for other vehicles in the Swedish army, including the Scania TGB40 that has it's own burner/pump installed permanently in the front of the vehicle. I'm not saying it is this type of fitting, but it sure sounds like one. If it has been a Fire/Rescue truck, perhaps not used in the army, this might be something else? A picture would answer this. / Tomas To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:10:21 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 23 Apr 2004 at 15:29, Grefven wrote: > Hi! > > The water connectors you are referring to are most likely mil. specs > hookups for an external heater used in extremely cold weather. > Sometimes the Swedish climate is very cold and you need to hookup an > external heater/circulator to keep the enigine from completely > freezing over. I've used one of these on a C306 once while I was in > the service. The one we used, for training purposes only (it was in > the middle of the summer!), was powered by an electric pump running of > the vehicles own battery and the heat was provided by a HUGE kerosene > burner/torch. The similar ones are available for other vehicles in the > Swedish army, including the Scania TGB40 that has it's own burner/pump > installed permanently in the front of the vehicle. > > I'm not saying it is this type of fitting, but it sure sounds like > one. If it has been a Fire/Rescue truck, perhaps not used in the army, > this might be something else? A picture would answer this. Firetrucks (and/or ambulances) are perhaps even more likely to be kept 'under steam' while waiting for an emergency call.... (even when parked indoors....you gotta have full heat blast when you dive into -30C outdoors, otherwise you might still freeze things over, like windows (inside & outside). (although the decoupling might take too much time....is the outboard circuit totally separate btw, with another heat-exchanger, or does the onboard coolant leave the vehicle?....any large risk in that procedure, for loosing all coolant?) Btw, ever seen these plug-in heater contraptions for auction? Any name/code/partnumbers? Could it even have been a Volvo part? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Brandon OBrien" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:23:32 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Another twist to the underbody connectors. . . Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I was told that these connectors are for an external heater used by troops in their tent which is set up next to the truck. I was also told that is why the exhaust is routed to the other side. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:01:06 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Another twist to the underbody connectors. . . Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 23 Apr 2004 at 23:23, Brandon OBrien wrote: > I was told that these connectors are for an external heater used by > troops in their tent which is set up next to the truck. I was also > told that is why the exhaust is routed to the other side. Hmm....if I wanted to heat a tent (adjacent to the vehicle), I would prefer doing that by warm air....much more foolproof, easier/quicker to setup, much less heavy equipment (but not as comfortable as heating-method in the long run, and perhaps irritating for eyes/throat). The radio/ambulance-box 304's have an additional air heater on board, not? The troop-carrier 306 definately has, with a nifty set of tubes running under the seats. Not sure about the 5-door 303 & 304....for any command-car function, I would expect such a heater too. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: From: "david ursin" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:09:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com The connectors are for cold-for-warm coolant exchange. They can be circulated from a heater unit as mentioned BUT also directly from another already warm and running vehicle. I used to own a Sugga (connectors in front) that came with a set of exchange hoses designed to inter-connect between two vehicles (one cold one warm) without the use of any pumps or heaters. It's somewhat akin to the power-slave receptacle in all NATO vehicles except to share power instead of coolant. David To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:45:18 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 23 Apr 2004 at 23:09, david ursin wrote: > The connectors are for cold-for-warm coolant exchange. They can be > circulated from a heater unit as mentioned BUT also directly from > another already warm and running vehicle. I used to own a Sugga > (connectors in front) that came with a set of exchange hoses designed > to inter-connect between two vehicles (one cold one warm) without the > use of any pumps or heaters. It's somewhat akin to the power-slave > receptacle in all NATO vehicles except to share power instead of > coolant. David But is it a 'critical' circuit, or totally separated from the onboard regular circuit? Or: what happens if you snap a hose? (in particular since quite some onboard circuits are hard to get rid of air-pockets) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:06:50 +0100 Subject: Coolant external-circuit connectors (was: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Anyone still remember this thread? After seeing similar details in the manual, I started wondering how this secondary coolang system works, like whether it can be drained completely, to avoid any freezing of the coolant, no matter what. Also a nice starting point for an auxiliary coolant heater/burner....no need to mess with the normal coolant circuit then, hence fool- & bulletproof. A bit daft to simply hook your household hot-water tap to the vehicle, for early morning starts....:)) (but if it can be drained completely afterwards, why not....;)) On 23 Apr 2004 at 23:09, david ursin wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Willem-Jan Markerink > To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:10 AM > Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: New TGB11 owner in SF Bay area > > On 23 Apr 2004 at 15:29, Grefven wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > The water connectors you are referring to are most likely mil. specs > > hookups for an external heater used in extremely cold weather. > > Sometimes the Swedish climate is very cold and you need to hookup an > > external heater/circulator to keep the enigine from completely > > freezing over. I've used one of these on a C306 once while I was in > > the service. The one we used, for training purposes only (it was in > > the middle of the summer!), was powered by an electric pump running of > > the vehicles own battery and the heat was provided by a HUGE kerosene > > burner/torch. The similar ones are available for other vehicles in the > > Swedish army, including the Scania TGB40 that has it's own burner/pump > > installed permanently in the front of the vehicle. > > > > I'm not saying it is this type of fitting, but it sure sounds like > > one. If it has been a Fire/Rescue truck, perhaps not used in the army, > > this might be something else? A picture would answer this. > > Firetrucks (and/or ambulances) are perhaps even more likely to be > kept 'under steam' while waiting for an emergency call.... > (even when parked indoors....you gotta have full heat blast when you > dive into -30C outdoors, otherwise you might still freeze things > over, like windows (inside & outside). > > (although the decoupling might take too much time....is the outboard > circuit totally separate btw, with another heat-exchanger, or does > the onboard coolant leave the vehicle?....any large risk in that > procedure, for loosing all coolant?) > > Btw, ever seen these plug-in heater contraptions for auction? > Any name/code/partnumbers? > Could it even have been a Volvo part? > > The connectors are for cold-for-warm coolant exchange. They can be circulated from a heater unit as mentioned BUT also directly from another already warm and running vehicle. I used to own a Sugga (connectors in front) that came with a set of exchange hoses designed to inter-connect between two vehicles (one cold one warm) without the use of any pumps or heaters. It's somewhat akin to the power-slave receptacle in all NATO vehicles except to share power instead of coolant. David xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bo_Ahlstr=F6m?= Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:56:30 +0100 Subject: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Found this one on a norwegian military surplus site: http://forsvarsbrukt.no/shopexd.asp?id=378 Does anyone know if it is compatible for use with a C303? From the picture I would guess that you only had to change the connectors, hopefully... Wish you all a good 2007! /Bosse To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 00:41:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 1 Jan 2007 at 11:56, Bo Ahlstr=F6m wrote: > Found this one on a norwegian military surplus site: > http://forsvarsbrukt.no/shopexd.asp?id=3D378 > Does anyone know if it is compatible for use with a C303? > From the picture I would guess that you only had to change the > connectors, hopefully... > Wish you all a good 2007! > /Bosse You did read that the water/coolant has to be pumped manually?....:)) And/or: do you intend to use it as an external or internal heater? Alternative: I once bought a big ex-military (Dutch) Webasto 24 volt diesel heater, pulled from a semi-stationary container/shelter; a long sled with heater, diesel tank, coolant (closed) circuit and water/air heat-exchanger plus air-ventilator.... These too contain a water/coolant pump, so at least in theory suitable to hook it up to the Volvo external connectors. Only a shame only the military Volvo's got these connectors....has anyone ever seen one on a civil/12v model? Btw, are those military connectors not male & female? If so, all you need for the external system is finding a donor vehicle, and pull another set of male & female, and use them in reverse.... Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Pl St Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:44:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Bo Ahlstr=F6m Sent: Monday, 1 January, 2007 11:56:30 AM > Found this one on a norwegian military surplus site: > http://forsvarsbrukt.no/shopexd.asp?id=3D378 > Does anyone know if it is compatible for use with a C303? > From the picture I would guess that you only had to change the=20 > connectors, hopefully... > Wish you all a good 2007! > /Bosse Hi Bosse there are at least two differrent sizes of the burners. So be shure you get a set, not two pieces othervise you will have to make some adaption , but probably not impossible?? + event connectors?? If you are operating in an area with temperaturs below -15 deg C and no current, this is a marvelous friend Good luck and Happy new Year to You sirBork To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Pl St Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 00:33:47 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Dear Bosse and Willem-Jan Markerink The Heater Bosse is asking about is a heater only for use from outside the car when the car is standing at ease, and it is intended to be "starthelper" by heating the cooling water. As a part of the cooling system on my (TGB 1315 (C303) 6x6 Ambulance ) it is a webasto permanently built in. Can be uset even when the car is moving. Uses Gas as the engine not diesel, but have a separate tank. This one is started by the cars current. In addition there are connectors for this (Bosses) heater used as start helper under cold conditions. I've had the opportunity to try it below degrees -40C . I can tell you it worked. This one is started by a lighter or something flamable. At these low temeratures there are not much energy to get from the battery Hope this help sirBork To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 03:29:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 2 Jan 2007 at 0:33, Pl St wrote: > Dear Bosse and Willem-Jan Markerink > The Heater Bosse is asking about is a heater only for use from outside > the car when the car is standing at ease, and it is intended to be > "starthelper" by heating the cooling water. As a part of the cooling > system on my (TGB 1315 (C303) 6x6 Ambulance ) it is a webasto > permanently built in.Can be uset even when the car is moving. Uses Gas > as the engine not diesel, but have a separate tank. This one is > started by the cars current. > > In addition there are connectors for this (Bosses) heater used as > start helper under cold conditions. I've had the opportunity to try it > below degrees -40C . I can tell you it worked. This one is started by > a lighter or something flamable. At these low temeratures there are > not much energy to get from the battery Hope this help sirBork Yes, but at -40C, do you still get much energy from the vehicle-owner itself, when he has to pump the coolant manually?....;)) It's no good when the vehicle/engine has become warm, yet the owner is frozen stuck to the pump....;)) Btw, read a lovely expedition-report about a German 2-person film- crew, traveling to Ojmjakon, in north-east Siberia, 'Polaris Cholada' (the cold pole), in a MB G500 (gasoline, automatic transmission (only configuration)), which was fitted with, quite strangely, a transmission-heater....:)) Now I knew slushboxes are nothing but trouble, and below zero sluggish like shit through a funnel (Dutch expression, pardon the language....:)), but this was a new 'feature' to me....:)) http://www.thomasjunker.de (only German, sorry....;(( (but you can see their route; click 'Filme & Reisen' -> 'Jenseits der Waerme' ('On the other side of heat' (winter 2006)) and/or 'Bis am Ende der Welt' ('To the end of the world', summer 2002), and click 'Route') (they did the first attempt to reach Ojmjakon by motorbike in 2002, and failed miserably, shortly after Jakutsk, because of the swamps....no roads until winter, not even for offroad-bikes) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bo_Ahlstr=F6m?= Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:41:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: >You did read that the water/coolant has to be pumped manually?....:)) Yes I read about the pump, but I didnt quite understand the implications regarding it. Is the pump only to be used until the water temperature gets high enough and/or to get selfcirculation started? I have seen pictures of the original Volvo external heater and it looks very muck alike, so I thought that maybe a pump wont matter that much as long as it doesnt stop the flow when not manually activated. >And/or: do you intend to use it as an external or internal heater? My intention is to use it as an external heater only at freezing temperatures (and a little higher). On the other hand, with climatchanges running wild pehaps its wont be needed ;-) /Bosse To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Christian Brudevoll Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:50:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I think you'll need the pump only in the beginning. When the water gets warm, the themperature-difference will generate enough circulation. Thus it's important to connect it the right way. I had the oppurtunity to buy a similar some years ago, but didn't. I found it would require space and probably not be needed. And I've still not missed it, but I'm living close to the coast and don't drive on regular basis. The fixing-points, at least on my Volvo L3314N, are both female. And there was the same on an ex-military Landrover I had some years ago. I've read about two young englishmen travelling trough siberia in an old LR. When it was cold, they had to run the engine every 2nd hour during the night to keep it warm enough. When staring to drive in the mornig, they had to start carefully in first low, to let the diffs etc. heat. Telling that they had to keep the clutch-pedal in when starting the engine, I suppose is unnecessary.> I've heard that russian soldiers made a fire under their thanks to heat the engines. Maybe not for gasoline-driven trucks which are open underneath.... Christian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:57:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Could this heater be used with a C303? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 2 Jan 2007 at 3:29, Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > On 2 Jan 2007 at 0:33, Pl St wrote: > > > Dear Bosse and Willem-Jan Markerink > > The Heater Bosse is asking about is a heater only for use from outside > > the car when the car is standing at ease, and it is intended to be > > "starthelper" by heating the cooling water. As a part of the cooling > > system on my (TGB 1315 (C303) 6x6 Ambulance ) it is a webasto > > permanently built in.Can be uset even when the car is moving. Uses Gas > > as the engine not diesel, but have a separate tank. This one is > > started by the cars current. > > > > In addition there are connectors for this (Bosses) heater used as > > start helper under cold conditions. I've had the opportunity to try it > > below degrees -40C . I can tell you it worked. This one is started by > > a lighter or something flamable. At these low temeratures there are > > not much energy to get from the battery Hope this help sirBork > > Yes, but at -40C, do you still get much energy from the vehicle-owner > itself, when he has to pump the coolant manually?....;)) > It's no good when the vehicle/engine has become warm, yet the owner > is frozen stuck to the pump....;)) > > Btw, read a lovely expedition-report about a German 2-person film- > crew, traveling to Ojmjakon, in north-east Siberia, 'Polaris Cholada' > (the cold pole), Ooops: 'Polus Cholada', not 'Polaris'. (although this might be a 'teutonised' spelling, as I can't find any further reference for that term on Google) > in a MB G500 (gasoline, automatic transmission (only > configuration)), which was fitted with, quite strangely, a > transmission-heater....:)) > Now I knew slushboxes are nothing but trouble, and below zero > sluggish like shit through a funnel (Dutch expression, pardon the > language....:)), but this was a new 'feature' to me....:)) > > http://www.thomasjunker.de > > (only German, sorry....;(( > (but you can see their route; click 'Filme & Reisen' -> 'Jenseits der > Waerme' ('On the other side of heat' (winter 2006)) and/or 'Bis am > Ende der Welt' ('To the end of the world', summer 2002), and click > 'Route') > (they did the first attempt to reach Ojmjakon by motorbike in 2002, > and failed miserably, shortly after Jakutsk, because of the > swamps....no roads until winter, not even for offroad-bikes) > -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] [note WJ/March 2007, visual confirmation on bare TGB13xx: auxiliary connectors do not have their own separate circuit, it taps straight into the engine-circuit through a T-splice (optimized/angled towards the normal engine circuit)]