To: From: "Stephen Cahill" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:11:11 -0300 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Diesel engines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "kageworxs" Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:48 AM > Has anyone done any research on installing a Powerstroke? Not the > large 7.3 or 6.0L but the smaller 2.8L. A friend has recently > installed one in his Land Rover and can't stop talking about it. Its > specs seem to be comprable to the Nissan... The Hs 2.8 TGV 135hp 277 ft Lb of torque at 1400 RPM dry weight 200 and a bit KG. Non electronic B10 rating 180,000 miles or 300,000 KM. anyone wanting the complete spec sheets on them can contact me. Or you can ask for an invite to the HS2800TDI usergroup.All the specs are in the files folder.I am shipping one that will be going into a C303 this week.The only hold back in the adapter to mate the engine to the new transmission going in the Volvo. I hope this post does not offend anyone as it is of a commerical venue. Stephen Cahill OBW Canada LTD To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "outback6x6" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:32:16 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Diesel engines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Now thats one hell of a little engine! 2.8 Power Stroke! Now after read a little it says you can bolt on the Rover 300 tdi rear housing to mate it to the Land Rover Transmission. Hmmmm The Volvo uses a rover clutch. I wonder what else Volvo used. If a Nissan patrol can be modified so could this little power house of and engine. Small since it 4 cylinders and has 277 ft lbs of torque. Not to mention it seems to be a high rever. On that i need to do a little more research. We need William to help us out here. He seems to know alot about stuff. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:06:38 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Diesel engines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 18 Apr 2005 at 17:32, outback6x6 wrote: > Now thats one hell of a little engine! 2.8 Power Stroke! > > Now after read a little it says you can bolt on the Rover 300 tdi rear > housing to mate it to the Land Rover Transmission. Hmmmm The Volvo > uses a rover clutch. I wonder what else Volvo used. If a Nissan > patrol can be modified so could this little power house of and engine. > Small since it 4 cylinders and has 277 ft lbs of torque. Not to > mention it seems to be a high rever. On that i need to do a little > more research. We need William to help us out here. He seems to know > alot about stuff. I wasn't even aware (anymore?) that the clutch is Rover-compatible as well, so you are already on a better track than me....;)) Any identification/spec's of this Rover clutch, which could help us determine what replacement or even upgrades might fit, Rover or aftermarket? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/main_4x4.htm To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "outback6x6" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:22:59 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Diesel engines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > I wasn't even aware (anymore?) that the clutch is Rover-compatible as > well, so you are already on a better track than me....;)) > > Any identification/spec's of this Rover clutch, which could help us > determine what replacement or even upgrades might fit, Rover or > aftermarket? > > Hi Willem, I will ask a friend what clutch Volvo uses from Land Rover. It has only been the last few weeks that I found out about alot of Rover stuff. Brake pads drums some other stuff and now the clutch! I will bet you its from the 109 series most likely to the Land Rover 6 cylinder. Anyone have a picture of the Volvo clutch,pressure plate and throw out bearing? I have those sitting in my Land Rover based armored vehicle waiting to be installed. I can look at the pics and let you know. M.C. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "extrm303" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:42:07 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Diesel engines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > Anyone have a picture of the Volvo clutch,pressure plate > and throw out bearing? I have those sitting in my Land Rover based > armored vehicle waiting to be installed. I can look at the pics and > let you know. > > M.C. Posted under C3 Clutch. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "outback6x6" Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 05:09:24 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Land Rover Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello all, The clutch for those of you who wanted to know is from Land Rover, 111 petrol 6 cylinder. This comes from Nick Woods who built the green with black trim (Ultimate Expedition)TGB1317 seen in the photo section. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:21:16 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Land Rover Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 22 Apr 2005 at 5:09, outback6x6 wrote: > Hello all, > The clutch for those of you who wanted to know is from Land Rover, > 111 petrol 6 cylinder. This comes from Nick Woods who built the green > with black trim (Ultimate Expedition)TGB1317 seen in the photo section. Hmm....that should probably read Series-III, correct? Which means '71 till '83/84/85, and 2.6L 6-cylinder, details below....quite a bit less than the Volvo, both horsepower & torque (83-86 vs 135 & 128-132 vs 165) ....unless the clutch is seriously overbuild for this task, perhaps it's wise to see if there is better aftermarket around? http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.Engines.html xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx #2625cc Vehicles used on: Series IIA (109" models, 1967 - 71) Series III (109" models, 1971 - 85) 6-cylinder : 77.8 x 92.1mm 2625cc compression ratio : 7.8:1 carburetor : SU horsepower : 83bhp (net) at 4,500 rpm maximum torque : 128 lb ft at 1,500 rpm In 1971 the carburetor was changed from the SU to a Zenith Stromberg. The changed statistics are as follows: horsepower : 86bhp (net) at 4,500 rpm maximum torque : 132 lb ft at 1,500 rpm This is a detuned Rover 110 car engine with modified water pump and different carburetor for the Land Rover. This is an excellent engine for towing, and was a smooth running engine. However... Problems: Same as the early 1.6l and 2l engines where it ate a lot of exhaust valves and suffered the additional problem of the long aluminum head corroding or warping. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/main_4x4.htm To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "outback6x6" Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 04:37:49 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Land Rover Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com That would be correct. I have been looking over the cutch and it seems to be a very well built unit. Looks like it could handle 200 hp After all it has been used for all these years in the volvo no problem. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:26:59 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Dear group, After measuring the clutch size on a C306, I can confirm that civil/12v models have a larger clutch than (Swedish) military; roughly 10" vs 9", or more precise 250mm vs 229mm, and both with an inner diameter of 153mm (not quite sure about the latter for the 9", but I would be surprised if that would be different). Which makes the larger clutch a factor.... (250-153)^2 / (229-153)^2 = 1.63x ....stronger. Which, given the 400Nm of a Volvo D5 diesel in rally trim that the 9" version is capable of, would mean at least 652Nm....not bad, not bad at all....:)) So only an extremly tweaked 1HD-FTE Land Cruiser diesel would give problems....;)) (but given the required size of intercooler for that performance, I doubt anyone would be able to stuff it into a C3-series anyway) (hmm....do I now hear other folks pondering about a rear-mounted intercooler, on their converted/cut-down bare cab-frame model?....;)) Further thoughts & ponderings welcome of course....:)) (yes yes, I know all this is only valid for the clutch, not whether the gearbox/T-case/cardan/diff/hubs can take such power....but still, it has to start somewhere, at the clutch....;)) PS: I still do not know whether this 10" clutch shows any compatibility with other Volvo applications, unlike the 9" clutch (both Volvo & Land Rover, IIRC[*])....don't even know a part-number for the 10", actually....neither Volvo nor LR....anyone? (anyone with a civil/12v C3-series, that is....or Malaysian military) [*] see also what I gathered thusfar from the list: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_clutch.txt -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "MATS BERGVALL" To: Subject: C3 clutch Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:00:50 +0200 > PS: I still do not know whether this 10" clutch shows any > compatibility with other Volvo applications, unlike the 9" clutch > (both Volvo & Land Rover, IIRC[*])....don't even know a part-number > for the 10", actually....neither Volvo nor LR....anyone? > (anyone with a civil/12v C3-series, that is....or Malaysian military) > > > [*] see also what I gathered thusfar from the list: > > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_clutch.txt Tgb 20 has orginal a 10" clutch (Valeo 263281) it is some times also used on tgb 11 and 13. 10" Driven plate (Valeo 264648) Orginal 11 and 13 clutch is 9,5" Volvo p/n 430123 Plate Volvo p/n 1526212 Mats To: From: "Lars Nordqvist" Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:17:37 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Re: Re: Carburettors going to rich? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hi again! (I cut down the text a bit, just to highlight the questions) >Is this perhaps one of the vehicles shown in these 5 video's? >(not online any longer it seems, sadly) >(but I saved the files back then, and now I also noticed that one of >the vehicles (in particular file #4) shows a C3-series with dual >safari-windows....suggesting a firefighter? >(but it also has a roof hatch, above the copilot's seat, it seems) > >Btw, have you ever replaced the clutch on either one? >Being civil/12v C303's, these too must have a 10" clutch, correct? >Any partnumbers gathered in that process? > >(plus confirmation that yours have also the 3" radiator?) >(which, IMO, is related to using the PTO (which is present on most, >of not all, firefighter C3-series (likely even every civil C3- >series?)) My first C303 is a 1977 fire-fighter. There are no safari-windows, no roof hatch and no PTO (from new but I mounted one along with a winch). The second one is a 1979 fire-fighter. It has two safari-windows, no roof hatch but PTO and centrally mounted winch. I have not replaced the clutch. I have replaced the transfer case (no teeth left...) on the old one and repaired the gearbox as well (bad synchronization ring). Bad driver or bad driving? :-) I never came to think of checking part numbers, but the clutch is rather big, so it could well be 10". Part number according to the spare part catalogue is - clutch, 10": 267194-9 - clutch, 9": 430123-0 - driven plate (the disk), 10": 1526238-9 - driven plate (the disk), 9": 1526212-4 - release bearing: 678985-3 - clutch cable: 1567578-8 I have not checked the radiator size. The old car has been used in hot weather, slow driving, hard winching and the radiator filled with mud - all simultaneously. The temp gauge is glued to 90 degrees regardless of what I have been doing, so the cooling system really works. I guess that implies 3" radiator?? The new one runs to hot, but I have not checked why yet. I believe the thermostat is gone as the engine gets warm v-e-r-y slowly and then gets to warm. Maybe the problem is as easily solved as replacing the thermostat? On the PTO matter: no, not all civil C303 where delivered with PTO. I do believe, however, that it was a rather common option. Last Sunday I heard something interesting. I friend of mine worked at Volvo during early production of the C303's. According to him, Volvo had great problems getting production going as engineering came up with revisions almost daily. Typical small-scale production problem? All the best, /Lars To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:28:35 +0200 Subject: Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" & radiator 2" vs 3" [Volvo303] (was: Carburettors going to rich? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 30 Sep 2005 at 22:17, Lars Nordqvist wrote: > Hi again! > > (I cut down the text a bit, just to highlight the questions) > > > >Is this perhaps one of the vehicles shown in these 5 video's? > >(not online any longer it seems, sadly) > >(but I saved the files back then, and now I also noticed that one of > >the vehicles (in particular file #4) shows a C3-series with dual > >safari-windows....suggesting a firefighter? > >(but it also has a roof hatch, above the copilot's seat, it seems) > > > >Btw, have you ever replaced the clutch on either one? > > >Being civil/12v C303's, these too must have a 10" clutch, correct? > > >Any partnumbers gathered in that process? > > >(plus confirmation that yours have also the 3" radiator?) > >(which, IMO, is related to using the PTO (which is present on most, > >of not all, firefighter C3-series (likely even every civil C3- > >series?)) > > My first C303 is a 1977 fire-fighter. There are no safari-windows, no roof > hatch and no PTO (from new but I mounted one along with a winch). The second > one is a 1979 fire-fighter. It has two safari-windows, no roof hatch but PTO > and centrally mounted winch. > > I have not replaced the clutch. I have replaced the transfer case (no teeth > left...) on the old one and repaired the gearbox as well (bad > synchronization ring). Bad driver or bad driving? :-) I never came to think > of checking part numbers, but the clutch is rather big, so it could well be > 10". Part number according to the spare part catalogue is > > - clutch, 10": 267194-9 > - clutch, 9": 430123-0 > - driven plate (the disk), 10": 1526238-9 > - driven plate (the disk), 9": 1526212-4 > - release bearing: 678985-3 > - clutch cable: 1567578-8 Hmm....interesting; Mats had already sent me a combination of Volvo (9") & Valeo (10") partnumbers....and at least the Volvo numbers match....which leaves 2 questions for 10": whether the Valeo part is identical to Volvo, or whether these are two separate options. (and: which one was installed when, originally/factory and as later replacement) It never hurts to have too many options, but it would be silly if it is one and the same product, while we debate which one might be best....:)) xxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "MATS BERGVALL" To: Subject: C3 clutch Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:00:50 +0200 Tgb 20 has orginal a 10" clutch (Valeo 263281) it is some times also used on tgb 11 and 13. 10" Driven plate (Valeo 264648) Orginal 11 and 13 clutch is 9,5" Volvo p/n 430123 Plate Volvo p/n 1526212 Mats xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > I have not checked the radiator size. The old car has been used in hot > weather, slow driving, hard winching and the radiator filled with mud - all > simultaneously. The temp gauge is glued to 90 degrees regardless of what I > have been doing, so the cooling system really works. I guess that implies 3" > radiator?? The new one runs to hot, but I have not checked why yet. I > believe the thermostat is gone as the engine gets warm v-e-r-y slowly and > then gets to warm. Maybe the problem is as easily solved as replacing the > thermostat? I vaguely recall that a completely *missing* thermostat can mess up the system too, by allowing a too high flow of water (physics is a bit mysterious in that area, apparently neither low flor nor high flow is good for thermal transfer). > On the PTO matter: no, not all civil C303 where delivered with PTO. I do > believe, however, that it was a rather common option. > > Last Sunday I heard something interesting. I friend of mine worked at Volvo > during early production of the C303's. According to him, Volvo had great > problems getting production going as engineering came up with revisions > almost daily. Typical small-scale production problem? 'Friend' does not sound older/retired, correct? I know that Claes Blomquist (changing family name to 'Hellblom' btw) was involved in the early C303 production, while one of his best friends is a retired military engineer/developer, involved in the production of the military models. Luckily he is still in good health, would be cool to have both write a biography about that part of their career (just like one of the Valp-engineers has done, story online somewhere). But I also thought that at least for the miliary Volvo only supplied the front cab, while the rear body was build/finished in a (probably several?) military factory (possibly/likely with body-parts supplied by Volvo (just as they did with Tollarp?)....so at least that part of the revision chaos/nightmare shouldn't have affected the Volvo production itself....;)) Would be cool if your friend has more details to share....arrange an long interview with him!....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: extrm303 Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:07:57 -0000 Subject: Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" & radiator 2" vs 3" [Volvo303] (was: Carburettors going to rich? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > On 30 Sep 2005 at 22:17, Lars Nordqvist wrote: > > > Hi again! > > > > (I cut down the text a bit, just to highlight the questions) > > > > > > >Is this perhaps one of the vehicles shown in these 5 video's? > > >(not online any longer it seems, sadly) > > >(but I saved the files back then, and now I also noticed that one of > > >the vehicles (in particular file #4) shows a C3-series with dual > > >safari-windows....suggesting a firefighter? > > >(but it also has a roof hatch, above the copilot's seat, it seems) > > > > > > >Btw, have you ever replaced the clutch on either one? > > > > >Being civil/12v C303's, these too must have a 10" clutch, correct? > > > > >Any partnumbers gathered in that process? > > > > >(plus confirmation that yours have also the 3" radiator?) > > >(which, IMO, is related to using the PTO (which is present on most, > > >of not all, firefighter C3-series (likely even every civil C3- > > >series?)) > > > > My first C303 is a 1977 fire-fighter. There are no safari-windows, no roof > > hatch and no PTO (from new but I mounted one along with a winch). The second > > one is a 1979 fire-fighter. It has two safari-windows, no roof hatch but PTO > > and centrally mounted winch. > > > > I have not replaced the clutch. I have replaced the transfer case (no teeth > > left...) on the old one and repaired the gearbox as well (bad > > synchronization ring). Bad driver or bad driving? :-) I never came to think > > of checking part numbers, but the clutch is rather big, so it could well be > > 10". Part number according to the spare part catalogue is > > > > - clutch, 10": 267194-9 > > - clutch, 9": 430123-0 > > - driven plate (the disk), 10": 1526238-9 > > - driven plate (the disk), 9": 1526212-4 > > - release bearing: 678985-3 > > - clutch cable: 1567578-8 > > Hmm....interesting; Mats had already sent me a combination of Volvo > (9") & Valeo (10") partnumbers....and at least the Volvo numbers > match....which leaves 2 questions for 10": whether the Valeo part is > identical to Volvo, or whether these are two separate options. > (and: which one was installed when, originally/factory and as later > replacement) > It never hurts to have too many options, but it would be silly if it > is one and the same product, while we debate which one might be > best....:)) > > > xxxxxxxxxxxxx > From: "MATS BERGVALL" > To: > Subject: C3 clutch > Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:00:50 +0200 > > Tgb 20 has orginal a 10" clutch (Valeo 263281) it is some times also > used on tgb 11 and 13. > > 10" Driven plate (Valeo 264648) > > Orginal 11 and 13 clutch is 9,5" Volvo p/n 430123 > Plate Volvo p/n 1526212 > > Mats > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Lars or Mats, Any luck finding the throw out bearing, Volvo # 678985. Using an older (88-89) I.B.I Bearing Guide and I.B.I Group 16206, it crosses over to several other manufacturers like SKF, Borg-Warner, Perfect Circle, etc. however quite difficult even in these incarnations to find. The 164 throw out bearing Volvo # 672122 looks like it will fit however it is has a plastic like collar which is a bit smaller in width and frankly I would not trust in a Volvo truck. Any suggestions?? Cheers, To: From: "Lars Nordqvist" Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:06:56 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" & radiator 2" vs 3" (was: Carburettors going to rich? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >Any luck finding the throw out bearing, Volvo # 678985. Using an older (88->89) I.B.I >Bearing Guide and I.B.I Group 16206, it crosses over to several other manufacturers like >SKF, Borg-Warner, Perfect Circle, etc. however quite difficult even in these incarnations to >find. > >The 164 throw out bearing Volvo # 672122 looks like it will fit however it is has a plastic >like collar which is a bit smaller in width and frankly I would not trust in a Volvo truck. > >Any suggestions?? Sorry, haven't done any research on this matter as I haven't had any problems with the clutch (yet...). However, all other bearings i have needed (front wheel outer bearing, winch, t-case) have had SKF equivilants that worked fine. I found those in a shop in Solna (northwestern Stockholm) called Momentum; Momentum Industrial Maintenance Supply AB Visit: Hemv=E4rnsgatan 10, SOLNA Mail: Box 4072, 171 04 SOLNA Phone: +46 (0)8-619 93 30 The clutch in the 164 have to deal with more horses than the clutch in the C303. I don't know about spring force difference between the two, but I would dare to try the 164 bearing (if the other measures are OK of course). Should it not work, changing again is done in two nights work. It is not that complicated. And the second time is always quicker than the first :-) If I find out more, I'll post it! All the best, /Lars To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: extrm303 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:06:34 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" & radiator 2" vs 3" (was: Carburettors going to rich? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com -- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Nordqvist" wrote: > Sorry, haven't done any research on this matter as I haven't had any > problems with the clutch (yet...). However, all other bearings i have needed > (front wheel outer bearing, winch, t-case) have had SKF equivilants that > worked fine. I found those in a shop in Solna (northwestern Stockholm) > called Momentum; > > Momentum Industrial Maintenance Supply AB > Visit: Hemvärnsgatan 10, SOLNA > Mail: Box 4072, 171 04 SOLNA > Phone: +46 (0)8-619 93 30 > > The clutch in the 164 have to deal with more horses than the clutch in the > C303. I don't know about spring force difference between the two, but I > would dare to try the 164 bearing (if the other measures are OK of course). > Should it not work, changing again is done in two nights work. It is not > that complicated. And the second time is always quicker than the first :-) > > If I find out more, I'll post it! > > All the best, > /Lars > Lars, Thanks for your prompt response and information. I think one needs to be a bit careful with 164 parts. The 164 throw out bearing is Volvo # 672122 even though it fits on the shaft, it has a smaller plastic release collar that I just didnt feel comfortable using and have doudts of it's logevity in comparison to the metal collared C3/TGB Volvo # 678985. Also, even though the clutch pressure plates of the 164 and C3-series/TGBs are the same, Volvo # 430123, there are three different driven plate's available. For the 164 B30A it's the 228mm Volvo# 461134, and for the higher horsepower B30E it's the 240mm Volvo# 430123. However, even though they share the same pressure plate they do not share the same driven plate and I have yet to verify or validate that the C3/TGB Volvo# 1526212 240mm, driven plate is the same as the 164 B30E Volvo#430123 240mm driven plate, even though it is similar in diameter and uses the same clutch/pressure plate. Cheers, P.R. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: extrm303 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:13:35 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" & radiator 2" vs 3" (was: Carburettors going to rich? Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, extrm303 wrote: > Lars, > > Thanks for your prompt response and information. I think one needs to be > a bit careful with 164 parts. The 164 throw out bearing is Volvo # 672122 > even though it fits on the shaft, it has a smaller plastic release collar that I > just didnt feel comfortable using and have doudts of it's logevity in > comparison to the metal collared C3/TGB Volvo # 678985. Also, even > though the clutch pressure plates of the 164 and C3-series/TGBs are the > same, Volvo # 430123, there are three different driven plate's available. > For the 164 B30A it's the 228mm Volvo# 461134, and for the higher > horsepower B30E it's the 240mm Volvo# 430123. However, even though they > share the same pressure plate they do not share the same driven plate and > I have yet to verify or validate that the C3/TGB Volvo# 1526212 240mm, > driven plate is the same as the 164 B30E Volvo#430123 240mm driven > plate, even though it is similar in diameter and uses the same clutch/pressure > plate. > > Cheers, > > P.R. > Too many part #s Volvo 164 and C3/TGB clutch pressure plate: 430123 Volvo 164 driven plate B30A 228mm (9.0"): 461134 Volvo 164 driven plate B30E 240mm (9.5"): 461314 Volvo C3/TGB 240mm (9.5") typically military: 1526212 Cheers, To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jens" Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:02:24 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hi Willem-Jan, here are all clutches with the same tooth system [1 1/8" (10 teeth)] up to 250mm available in germany: 1 1860 039 025 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Austauschteil: Kenngröße: 225Z Durchmesser [mm]: 225 2 1860 056 124 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 250Z Austauschteil: Durchmesser [mm]: 250 3 1861 224 005 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 250GSZ Durchmesser [mm]: 250 Austauschteil: 4 1861 449 133 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 228CPB Durchmesser [mm]: 228 5 1861 542 132 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 240TD Durchmesser [mm]: 240 6 1861 562 234 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 228RB Durchmesser [mm]: 228 7 1861 703 031 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 240TD Durchmesser [mm]: 240 8 1862 146 302 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 228PB Durchmesser [mm]: 228 9 1862 928 001 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 242CTB Durchmesser [mm]: 242 10 1862 969 241 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 228CPD Durchmesser [mm]: 228 11 1864 122 146 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 225/50 Austauschteil: Durchmesser [mm]: 225 12 1864 254 003 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Austauschteil: Kenngröße: 250Z Durchmesser [mm]: 250 13 1864 307 101 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 250/50B Durchmesser [mm]: 250 Austauschteil: 14 1864 310 104 SACHS Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 250BL Durchmesser [mm]: 250 The clutch no 9 is the one of landrover and Volvo C303 I guess. Eingebaut in LAND ROVER : SERIES II SERIE II (01/1971 - 09/1971) SERIES III SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1983) SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1985) SERIE III (03/1979 - 12/1983) NISSAN : PATROL Station Wagon (W160) 2.7 D (160) (01/1983 - 01/1985) PATROL Station Wagon (W260) 2.8 D (260) (10/1984 - 07/1994) No 4 is the one, which is used by Volvo cars with B30 engine (B30A, B30F, B30E) and Landrover LAND ROVER : 88/109 2.3 (LR 88 OL, LR 109 OL) (51 kW ; 09/1963 - 12/1986) 88/109 Hardtop 2.3 (LR 88 OP, LR 109 OP) (51 kW ; 09/1963 - 12/1986) VOLVO : 164 2.9 E (96 kW ; 08/1968 - 07/1973) 2.9 (118 kW ; 08/1972 - 07/1974) This clutch is NOT available since 2003 !!! The clutches with 250 mm diameter are not used in any car, only by old german tractors I will measure the inner diameter of the clutch from my C303 asap. greetings Jens To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:27:28 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 21 Oct 2005 at 6:25, Jens wrote: > I have maesured my clutch (TGB 11 from 1975) yesterday: > diameter 242 mmm (ca. 9.5 ") > > I suppose it is the same as Landrover used by the old 6-cyl.-engine. > > Jens Hmm....I was quoted 229mm for the smaller one....will this mystery ever end?....8-)) What is your inner diameter btw? And how many miles has the vehicle done? (IOW: can you exclude the clutch being replaced before in it's life?) Btw, I also made a more serious conceptual error in my calculation about a month ago (based on the 250mm of a C306, vs 229mm, both with an inner diameter of 153mm)....I only compared surface differences/ratio, yet neither effective/average diameter (arm of leverage), *nor* the possible difference in pressure.... (comparing surface only works under the assumption that each square centimeter receives the same amount of pressure, which would then require much more total pressure for the larger surface) (and in hindsight even my surface calculation was not correct, back then I got 1.63x, while it should be about 1.35x) ((250-153)^2)-((229-153)^2)) = 1.63x ((250^2)-(153^2)) / ((229^2)-(153^2)) = 1.35x As to that arm of leverage; my math/physics is a bit too rusty to be certain that it should be averaged on diameter, or on the 'center' of the surface (a bit more outboard). But until we know for sure what the actual total pressure is, we can't calculate anything....8-)) I hope to be able to measure that for the 250mm version soon, both old & new, measuring device permitting. (any tricks or pitfalls with the latter?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jens" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:49:07 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > I will measure the inner diameter of the clutch from my C303 asap. I have done it yesterday: 155 mm To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jens" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:02:21 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com > What is your inner diameter btw? 155 mm > And how many miles has the vehicle done? 19500 km > (IOW: can you exclude the clutch being replaced before in it's life?) No, it's impossible to know. But you can't change to a bigger clutch by using the same flywheel. The flywheel of my C303 is built for 242 mm clutch. I am not sure, if it is possible to use a 228mm-clutch but it seems that you can do. Then if no 242mm-clutch was available anyone can take the 228mm-clutch while it is not the right one. You have to check the flywheel about the correct clutch diameter. I have never heart about a 250mm-clutch at an european passenger car. Why do you mean Volvo have used a 250mm-clutch ? greetings Jens To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "djklabbe" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:15:08 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Jens" wrote: > > > What is your inner diameter btw? > > 155 mm > > > And how many miles has the vehicle done? > > 19500 km > > > (IOW: can you exclude the clutch being replaced before in it's life?) > > No, it's impossible to know. But you can't change to a bigger clutch > by using the same flywheel. The flywheel of my C303 is built for 242 > mm clutch. I am not sure, if it is possible to use a 228mm-clutch but > it seems that you can do. Then if no 242mm-clutch was available anyone > can take the 228mm-clutch while it is not the right one. > You have to check the flywheel about the correct clutch diameter. > > I have never heart about a 250mm-clutch at an european passenger car. > Why do you mean Volvo have used a 250mm-clutch ? > > greetings > Jens > KG Trimning has Borg & Beck 228mm clutch and 240mm clutch for volvo 164 B30 www.kgtrimning.com www.kgtrimning.com/koppling2.htm www.kgtrimning.com/kopplingspec.htm Klabbe To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:16:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 25 Oct 2005 at 9:02, Jens wrote: > > What is your inner diameter btw? > > 155 mm > > > And how many miles has the vehicle done? > > 19500 km > > > (IOW: can you exclude the clutch being replaced before in it's life?) > No, it´s impossible to know. But you can´t change to a bigger clutch > by using the same flywheel. The flywheel of my C303 is built for 242 > mm clutch. Not sure if I read the above (suggestion/implication) correctly, but thusfar I have not heard anyone stating that the larger 250mm clutch would *not* fit the TGB flywheel.... And I have also been told that *some* TGB20's miraculously seem to have the larger clutch....perhaps as a mid-life service/upgrade, not even when new/ex-factory? > I am not sure, if it is possible to use a 228mm-clutch but > it seems that you can do. Then if no 242mm-clutch was available anyone > can take the 228mm-clutch while it is not the right one. > You have to check the flywheel about the correct clutch diameter. > > I have never heart about a 250mm-clutch at an european passenger car. > Why do you mean Volvo have used a 250mm-clutch ? Present on all civil C303/C304(4x4)/C306[*], just like the 3" radiator (instead of 2"). As well as the Malaysian version (military, plus the odd civil model). [*] not sure if there was any civil C304/6x6 (short wheelbase)) Btw civil vs Malaysian: I was told recently that the civil specification (being different from Swedish military) only existed because of the Malaysian military order....and that the Malaysian specification (also 12volt??) was only better because the Swedish military tried to cut cost wherever possible, while the Malaysian army simply wanted the best, all options. And only for that reason the civil models also have a 3" radiator, and 10" clutch.... So, if the Swedish military didn't have beancounters back then, those too would have had the higher specification....:)) (and perhaps even 2 safari-windows each, like all Malaysian models....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:16:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 25 Oct 2005 at 9:02, Jens wrote: > > What is your inner diameter btw? > 155 mm > > > And how many miles has the vehicle done? > 19500 km > > > (IOW: can you exclude the clutch being replaced before in it's life?) > No, it´s impossible to know. But you can´t change to a bigger clutch > by using the same flywheel. The flywheel of my C303 is built for 242 > mm clutch. Not sure if I read the above (suggestion/implication) correctly, but thusfar I have not heard anyone stating that the larger 250mm clutch would *not* fit the TGB flywheel.... And I have also been told that *some* TGB20's miraculously seem to have the larger clutch....perhaps as a mid-life service/upgrade, not even when new/ex-factory? > I am not sure, if it is possible to use a 228mm-clutch but > it seems that you can do. Then if no 242mm-clutch was available anyone > can take the 228mm-clutch while it is not the right one. > You have to check the flywheel about the correct clutch diameter. > > I have never heart about a 250mm-clutch at an european passenger car. > Why do you mean Volvo have used a 250mm-clutch ? Present on all civil C303/C304(4x4)/C306[*], just like the 3" radiator (instead of 2"). As well as the Malaysian version (military, plus the odd civil model). [*] not sure if there was any civil C304/6x6 (short wheelbase)) Btw civil vs Malaysian: I was told recently that the civil specification (being different from Swedish military) only existed because of the Malaysian military order....and that the Malaysian specification (also 12volt??) was only better because the Swedish military tried to cut cost wherever possible, while the Malaysian army simply wanted the best, all options. And only for that reason the civil models also have a 3" radiator, and 10" clutch.... So, if the Swedish military didn't have beancounters back then, those too would have had the higher specification....:)) (and perhaps even 2 safari-windows each, like all Malaysian models....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:59:48 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Clutch 9" vs 10" Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 25 Oct 2005 at 9:02, Jens wrote: > > What is your inner diameter btw? > > 155 mm > > > And how many miles has the vehicle done? > > 19500 km > > > (IOW: can you exclude the clutch being replaced before in it's life?) > No, it´s impossible to know. But you can´t change to a bigger clutch > by using the same flywheel. The flywheel of my C303 is built for 242 > mm clutch. I am not sure, if it is possible to use a 228mm-clutch but > it seems that you can do. Then if no 242mm-clutch was available anyone > can take the 228mm-clutch while it is not the right one. > You have to check the flywheel about the correct clutch diameter. > > I have never heart about a 250mm-clutch at an european passenger car. > Why do you mean Volvo have used a 250mm-clutch ? Btw, HDJ80/100 Land Cruiser has 11" clutch as European spec, 12" as Australian spec. Just to get some perspective/comparison on the previously mentioned 4x4's....;)) Requires a matching flywheel though, no simple & easy replacement there....:)) (and also diesel, requiring a larger (more heavy) flywheel anyway, to counter the vibrations) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 02:33:20 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] 10" clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Allow me to add more confusing part numbers, freshly written down from my just arrived new 10" clutch set (friction disk, pressure plate, bearing): Friction disk: Valeo 490/2 M [3.40] 05/04 69450 Large '8' with 'Sachs' written below (emblem?) 1849000263 'Flywheel side' & 'Hecho en Mexico' Physical spec's: Outside diameter 255mm Inside diameter 161mm Thickness each plate 3.5mm, total 9mm Pressure plate: 267194 - 3632281 18:39 30/03/98 Valeo Physical spec's: Outside diameter 251.5mm Inside diameter 151mm Thickness disk 16mm Bearing: FRY148C (IIRC, both 9.5" and 10" clutch use the same bearing) Summary: Perhaps I am getting blind, but I see no matching number anywhere in the list I had thusfar, at: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_clutch.txt Matches neither Volvo, Valeo, or Sachs....great....:)) Hope this helps the number-crunchers, especially those with access to parts catalogi or even databases....:)) If only to see which other application this unit was intended for.... (some of the possible date codes suggests it has been in stock for quite a while, so probably very few other applications, if at all) Willem (wondering if someone on this list might have contacts in Mexico....;)))) Jan (darn, my brother is there right now; good Omen, gotta shove him into some grubby Mexican garage for an investigation, and stuff another kit in his luggage, for a few pesos....:)) PPS: could anyone confirm that everything *other* than friction disk & pressure plate is identical on all C3-versions? In particular the cylinders of both pedal and clutch....and the booster inbetween? Since if everyone agrees that pedal pressure is also equal for all C3- models, then the absolute pressure on the plate is also equal....which then only leaves the difference in surface (=relative pressure, pro cm^2) *and* arm of leverage as the varying factor. Or would a moderate difference in the clutch cylinder actuating force only require a minor, if not neglible, difference in pedal force? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:27:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] 10" clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 29 Oct 2005 at 2:33, Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > Allow me to add more confusing part numbers, freshly written down > from my just arrived new 10" clutch set (friction disk, pressure > plate, bearing): > > > Friction disk: > > Valeo 490/2 M [3.40] > > 05/04 69450 > > Large '8' with 'Sachs' written below (emblem?) > > 1849000263 > > 'Flywheel side' > > 'Hecho en Mexico' > > > Physical spec's: > > Outside diameter 255mm > Inside diameter 161mm > Thickness each plate 3.5mm, total 9mm Addition, after wondering why I got dirty fingers when handling the friction disk, and nearly wiping out the dot-printed coding on the inner disk: 231878091306 BBD3425E (could be 8803425E though, even the original print was pretty lousy/geometrically distorted) 06M04 98 (there is a very remote possibility that there was something written between 06M04 and 98, but since it already strongly suggests a complete date-code, I doubt that) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:11:56 -0700 To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl From: Phil Raymond Subject: Clutch Willhelm, Hopefully the photos I sent you earlier of the Canadian C306 prototype was of assistance. Seems that you've been focused on the C306 and perhaps have purchased one of the Tollarp Swedish fire rescue vehicles or some other C306 variant, hence your heightened interest in 10" clutches. The clutch business as you correctly surmised is Byzantine at best, where competitors, for fear of being copied, do not list any comprehensive data bases or cross references, all the while actually buying (wholesale) clutches from each other, re-labeling or cross-labeling and selling them. Once a manufacturer sees a ramp in a certain product from a competitor - off to design and reverse engineer it then come out with their own product. Add to that great confusion that companies are eating each other up. Examples: 1. Valeo lists in one "OE" catalog the 10" Volvo # 267194 as their # 3632281 yet that Valeo number seems to morph for the "after-market" catalog # 263281. Very similar but distinctly different for the uninitiated. 2. Sachs list the 9.5 military clutch/driven plate in a U.S. catalog as # SD348 with a phased out date of 2002 and limited to no availability in the future in the U.S.. Yet Sachs Germany lists the same plate with their unique nomenclature of # 1862928001 with plenty of availability. 3. If you've removed a C306 CIVIL clutch you'll most likely find another challenge or clue in that it most likely will be a VERTO (France) pressure plate. That as you discover bolts up to a different fly-wheel then the TGB's, along with radiators and other small things these add up to the hidden differences of the C vs TGB. Now you are confronted with the incestuousness of the clutch business. Verto is owned by some shell LLC route to Valeo but not made public. Borg & Beck is owned by Sachs which is owned by ZFTrading, yet Borg&Beck is marketed and sold through Delphi. Also Borg&Beck is sold and marketed by AP automotive (Italy) and FTE (U.K.) and AP numbers HE5584 (9.5") instead of Borg&Beck numbers for the pressure plate show up on the Delphi boxes. 4. You seem to have one of those crossbreed solution with a Sachs clutch plate (they have 7 manufacturing plants world wide with one in Mexico) and a Valeo pressure plate. I'll spare you all of the rest of the trivia and minutia. If you can send me high res. photos of the clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing and their boxes along with photos of the old components. I can send you the same regarding the 9.5" and 10" with side by side comparisons. My assumption is that you are very confident that the new components are the correct ones. Finally two more questions, from where and whom did you buy the components and are you doing the work yourself or who and where are you relying on that expertise? P.R. From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: Phil Raymond Subject: Re: Clutch Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:42:14 +0200 On 29 Oct 2005 at 9:11, Phil Raymond wrote: > Willhelm, > > Hopefully the photos I sent you earlier of the Canadian C306 > prototype was of assistance. Seems that you've been focused on the > C306 and perhaps have purchased one of the Tollarp Swedish fire > rescue vehicles or some other C306 variant, hence your heightened > interest in 10" clutches. http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/Volvo_C306_AME-183 :)) Btw 'other C306 variants': trying to get a view on those too lately....I already know that at least 2 utility models were sold to Danmark, at least one being a 5-door (without side cargo- doors)....the remaining frame (plus rear/upper body) of this one is stored outside at Tatanka/Claes Blomquist in Sweden....he also told me that some more where once bought by Vattenfall and/or another utility company, and employed in the north of Sweden (not sure what kind of body). > The clutch business as you correctly surmised is Byzantine at best, > where competitors, for fear of being copied, do not list any > comprehensive data bases or cross references, all the while actually > buying (wholesale) clutches from each other, re-labeling or > cross-labeling and selling them. Once a manufacturer sees a ramp in a > certain product from a competitor - off to design and reverse > engineer it then come out with their own product. Add to that great > confusion that companies are eating each other up. > > Examples: > > 1. Valeo lists in one "OE" catalog the 10" Volvo # 267194 as their # > 3632281 yet that Valeo number seems to morph for the "after-market" > catalog # 263281. Very similar but distinctly different for the > uninitiated. Cute....:)) But I would have been happy with even such a lousy match....:)) > 2. Sachs list the 9.5 military clutch/driven plate in a U.S. catalog > as # SD348 with a phased out date of 2002 and limited to no > availability in the future in the U.S.. Yet Sachs Germany lists the > same plate with their unique nomenclature of # 1862928001 with plenty > of availability. But it is still not clear to me whether the Sachs listing that Jens posted also includes a proper 10"/250mm unit....have you found a match there too? Might be cheaper than the Valeo unit, *if* it is still in production. (which the Valeo unit might not?) > 3. If you've removed a C306 CIVIL clutch you'll most likely find > another challenge or clue in that it most likely will be a VERTO > (France) pressure plate. That as you discover bolts up to a different > fly-wheel then the TGB's, along with radiators and other small things > these add up to the hidden differences of the C vs TGB. Now you are > confronted with the incestuousness of the clutch business. Verto is > owned by some shell LLC route to Valeo but not made public. Borg & > Beck is owned by Sachs which is owned by ZFTrading, yet Borg&Beck is > marketed and sold through Delphi. Also Borg&Beck is sold and > marketed by AP automotive (Italy) and FTE (U.K.) and AP numbers > HE5584 (9.5") instead of Borg&Beck numbers for the pressure plate > show up on the Delphi boxes. > > 4. You seem to have one of those crossbreed solution with a Sachs > clutch plate (they have 7 manufacturing plants world wide with one in > Mexico) and a Valeo pressure plate. Well yes, but both items show 'Valeo' as well....pressure plate even stamped (friction plate only printed, yet with both names in the same single stamp). > I'll spare you all of the rest of the trivia and minutia. If it includes anecdotes/data-points of C3 & TGB, please share....:)) > If you can send me high res. photos of the clutch, pressure plate and > throw out bearing and their boxes along with photos of the old > components. I can send you the same regarding the 9.5" and 10" with > side by side comparisons. My assumption is that you are very > confident that the new components are the correct ones. Finally two > more questions, from where and whom did you buy the components and > are you doing the work yourself or who and where are you relying on > that expertise? When I bought my C306 on the Swedish east-coast, I travelled further to the west-coast, to visit Tatanka/Claes Blomquist (now Hellbom, he changed his family name to his wife's parents because that name was about to become extinct (you can choose between male & female ancestry names in Sweden, even later on in marriage). He was the first one informing me about this military/civil differences, so if he wasn't able to order me the correct parts, nobody would....even more so because he was closely involved with the (civil) C3-series in the early 70's. Note that this C306 had only done 25k km, and the clutch wasn't worn that much, but since the engine had to come out anyway (the story about the oilpump acutely & spontaneously loosing a tooth), it didn't make much sense not to change the clutch as well. The entire operation is mostly performed by the engine overhaul shop (Roel Rijkmans), in combination with a Volvo oldtimer specialist (who also has 2 forklifts, which apparently makes removal of engine much easier, by simply lifting the entire vehicle up and over the engine+gearbox+T-case) (Claes says you can lower the engine on its own (hoisting it down from within, inching it down & backwards, bit by bit), even without removing the front axle, but in hindsight I am glad we did it this way, since I now also learned that both gearbox and T-case were once opened up before (blue instant gasket)....though with the odd date of 89/11, which implies that it was done quite early in its life (1980 model)....would love to find the complete maintenance records of this vehicle (two firebrigades sadly, although most others have seen many more owners than that)). Btw, since you put emphasis on CIVIL C3-series, I assume the 10" unit in the TGB20 (and *some* 11/13, all according to Matts Bergvall) is yet another constellation? (perhaps if only because it was produced in '79) Also, AFAIK (mostly based on what Claes mentioned as possible replacement engines I think), the flywheel should only differ between Volvo car's and C3-series (and even then only before '74 I recall even more vaguely, cars older than that not being compatible)), not *within* C3-series. Yet even if they were different within the C3-series, that would only prevent the 10" unit to be mounted on an originally 9" vehicle, not the other way around, correct? Thanx for your opinion & data-points, keep them coming!....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Cliff Lee-Buechel" Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:58:56 +0000 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Clutch Release Bearing Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: hapwik Subject: [Volvo303] Clutch Release Bearing Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:40:07 -0000 > I'm replacing the clutch in my TGB11. I've been able to get most of > the parts locally, but I haven't been able to match the release > bearing. Anyone know of a source for a replacement part, or a > suitable alternative part? hello the clutch relese bearing from a , 1993 vauxhall cavalier F20 gearbox fits . Friction plate , V4 transit van clutch cover , 1972 -1977 cf bedford van . hope it helps Cliff To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Brandon OBrien" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:57:36 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Clutch slipping Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I noticed that the clutch on my TGB 111 is starting to slip in low gears going up a grade. Clutch releases with just light foot pressure on the pedal. How easy will it be for me to find a new clutch, bearings, etc here in the states? Is this the same clutch that was used on the 164 or is it a special unit? I have not tried the local Volvo dealer, NAPA, etc as I wanted to get input from the experts out there first. Over the years I don't remember reading many, if any remarks regarding rebuilding the clutch. Hope I'm wrong. Also, where can I order brake shoes and what are the part numbers? Thanks in advance. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Teppo Rapo Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:37:25 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Clutch slipping Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Brandon OBrien kirjoitti 26.04.2006 kello 02:57: > I noticed that the clutch on my TGB 111 is starting to slip in low > gears going up a grade. Clutch releases with just light foot pressure > on the pedal. How easy will it be for me to find a new clutch, > bearings, etc here in the states? Is this the same clutch that was > used on the 164 or is it a special unit? I have not tried the local > Volvo dealer, NAPA, etc as I wanted to get input from the experts out > there first. > > Over the years I don't remember reading many, if any remarks regarding > rebuilding the clutch. Hope I'm wrong. > > Also, where can I order brake shoes and what are the part numbers? > > Thanks in advance. First of all, do you have free play on clutch pedal?? You should have like ~inch free play at it to avoid the clutch bearing to touch clutch when not pressed. I been around few different volvo individuals, like dozen or so and I burned one cluth and it broke down complitelly, 9000 kilometers on the clock. Then my spare part car had almost new clutch plate but assembly was damaged at some point of its life and that car has 7000 kilometers on the clock. New engine on my TGB111 (25000 kilometers on the clock) had complitelly new clutch, not more that year or so old. Friend of mine had a slipping clutch but it been better since he started to drive with it. So there seems to be quite a much of clutch problems in these rig's. Still I think that it is consequence from a fact that they have not been operated and need to be handled gently at the beginning of their new life. One extremely critical issue is the engine, if it does not run smoothly you need to use much, much more clutch at difficult terrain and combination of old clutch and bad brake-in period of it due to problems with engine can cause it to brake down complitelly or wear very fast. -teppo Teppo Rapo +358 40 5508394 Riimusauvantie 9 FIN-00740 Helsinki To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:42:49 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Clutch slipping Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 25 Apr 2006 at 23:57, Brandon OBrien wrote: > I noticed that the clutch on my TGB 111 is starting to slip in low > gears going up a grade. Clutch releases with just light foot pressure > on the pedal. How easy will it be for me to find a new clutch, > bearings, etc here in the states? Is this the same clutch that was > used on the 164 or is it a special unit? I have not tried the local > Volvo dealer, NAPA, etc as I wanted to get input from the experts out > there first. > > Over the years I don't remember reading many, if any remarks regarding > rebuilding the clutch. Hope I'm wrong. > > Also, where can I order brake shoes and what are the part numbers? > > Thanks in advance. Here a collection of relevant list-messages from the past: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_clutch.txt http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_parts-compatibility.txt http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/volvo_drum-removal.txt -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Brandon OBrien" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:11:04 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free play in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. In the past 2 years I've driven the truck about 5000 miles and have not noticed any slipping problems until now. The truck was bought for a purpose that I never used it for so it has only regular street use for past 2 years. The Series 111 Range Rover clutch that is mentioned by Linden Engineering is a 10 inch clutch. From what I've seen in the Volvo parts catalog, the TGB 111's had a 9 inch clutch. Rovers North sells that size also so before I make an order I really need to determine the correct size, UNLESS they are interchangeable. Anyone know for sure? My mechanic skills are just good enough to get me into trouble so I'm relying on you guys who are the experts. Does Sorin, Dave Duff, and Jim Malloy still frequent this board? I would have thought they would have been giving me their 2-cents worth. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:33:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 28 Apr 2006 at 0:11, Brandon OBrien wrote: > Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free play > in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. In the past 2 > years I've driven the truck about 5000 miles and have not noticed any > slipping problems until now. The truck was bought for a purpose that > I never used it for so it has only regular street use for past 2 > years. > > The Series 111 Range Rover clutch that is mentioned by Linden > Engineering is a 10 inch clutch. From what I've seen in the Volvo > parts catalog, the TGB 111's had a 9 inch clutch. Rovers North sells > that size also so before I make an order I really need to determine > the correct size, UNLESS they are interchangeable. Anyone know for > sure? > > My mechanic skills are just good enough to get me into trouble so I'm > relying on you guys who are the experts. > > Does Sorin, Dave Duff, and Jim Malloy still frequent this board? I > would have thought they would have been giving me their 2-cents worth. Did you read the first link in the answer I gave you? In there, the difference between the military 9.5" and the civil 10" unit is mentioned/explained. And while I *do* believe that the 10" clutch also requires a slightly different flywheel for optimum performance, that does not necessarily imply that a 10" clutch couldn't be mounted on a 9.5" military flywheel. Btw, someone in the USA had his 9.5" or 10" unit resurfaced with Kevlar....not sure how common/easy/expensive this option would be, and whether one should consider it at all, given the fact that the clutch 'fingers' (springs) are also subject to wear/age.... -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Brandon OBrien" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:26:04 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > > On 28 Apr 2006 at 0:11, Brandon OBrien wrote: > > > Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free play > > in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. In the past 2 > > years I've driven the truck about 5000 miles and have not noticed any > > slipping problems until now. The truck was bought for a purpose that > > I never used it for so it has only regular street use for past 2 > > years. > > > > The Series 111 Range Rover clutch that is mentioned by Lindenc > > Engineering is a 10 inch clutch. From what I've seen in the Volvo > > parts catalog, the TGB 111's had a 9 inch clutch. Rovers North ?sells > > that size also so before I make an order I really need to determine > > the correct size, UNLESS they are interchangeable. Anyone know for > > sure? > > > > My mechanic skills are just good enough to get me into trouble so I'm > > relying on you guys who are the experts. > > > > Does Sorin, Dave Duff, and Jim Malloy still frequent this board? I > > would have thought they would have been giving me their 2-cents worth. > > Did you read the first link in the answer I gave you? > In there, the difference between the military 9.5" and the civil 10" > unit is mentioned/explained. > And while I *do* believe that the 10" clutch also requires a slightly > different flywheel for optimum performance, that does not necessarily > imply that a 10" clutch couldn't be mounted on a 9.5" military > flywheel. > > Btw, someone in the USA had his 9.5" or 10" unit resurfaced with > Kevlar....not sure how common/easy/expensive this option would be, > and whether one should consider it at all, given the fact that the > clutch 'fingers' (springs) are also subject to wear/age.... > Yes, I have read every word, and if I was confused before, now I'm even more confused. Please correct me if I'm wrong. (1) Looks like the 9 in clutch is actually 9.5 in. (2) All military 303's (TGB 111's) came with that size clutch. (3) Range Rover III uses a 10 in. and the IIRC uses the 9 in. (4) Volvo 164 clutch may not be the correct one due to the size difference. Somewhere in all that information you mentioned that you bought a replacement kit for your truck. Do you have a TGB 111? Would I be able to get it from the same source or should I just get the Rover part since I'm in the states. Thanks very much! To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Cc: Claes Hellbom From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:13:07 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 28 Apr 2006 at 1:26, Brandon OBrien wrote: > --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" > wrote: > > > > On 28 Apr 2006 at 0:11, Brandon OBrien wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free > > > play in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. In the > > > past 2 years I've driven the truck about 5000 miles and have not > > > noticed any slipping problems until now. The truck was bought for > > > a purpose > > > I never used it for so it has only regular street use for past 2 > > > years. > > > > > > The Series 111 Range Rover clutch that is mentioned by Lindenc > > > Engineering is a 10 inch clutch. From what I've seen in the Volvo > > > parts catalog, the TGB 111's had a 9 inch clutch. Rovers North > > > ?sells that size also so before I make an order I really need to > > > determine the correct size, UNLESS they are interchangeable. > > > Anyone know for sure? > > > > > > My mechanic skills are just good enough to get me into trouble so > > > I'm relying on you guys who are the experts. > > > > > > Does Sorin, Dave Duff, and Jim Malloy still frequent this board? > > > I would have thought they would have been giving me their 2-cents > > > worth. > > > > Did you read the first link in the answer I gave you? > > In there, the difference between the military 9.5" and the civil 10" > > unit is mentioned/explained. And while I *do* believe that the 10" > > clutch also requires a slightly different flywheel for optimum > > performance, that does not necessarily imply that a 10" clutch > > couldn't be mounted on a 9.5" military flywheel. > > > > Btw, someone in the USA had his 9.5" or 10" unit resurfaced with > > Kevlar....not sure how common/easy/expensive this option would be, > > and whether one should consider it at all, given the fact that the > > clutch 'fingers' (springs) are also subject to wear/age.... > > > > > Yes, I have read every word, and if I was confused before, now I'm > even more confused. Please correct me if I'm wrong. (1) Looks like the > 9 in clutch is actually 9.5 in. (2) All military 303's (TGB 111's) > came with that size clutch. (3) Range Rover III uses a 10 in. and the > IIRC uses the 9 in. (4) Volvo 164 clutch may not be the correct one > due to the size difference. > > Somewhere in all that information you mentioned that you bought a > replacement kit for your truck. Do you have a TGB 111? No, sorry, a civil C306 firefighter. ('civil' is also indicated by a 12 volt system, plus a beige interior paint (in contrast to 24v & drab green), so be sure to check on both criteria, to avoid confusion when the vehicle was converted to 12, or the interior repainted (several C303 firefighters are of military origin)) > Would I be > able to get it from the same source or should I just get the Rover > part since I'm in the states. Thanks very much! My source could provide you with either size of clutch, but be warned that shipping gets costly, straight from Sweden.... http://www.tatanka.nu As a source strongly recommended, since he was the first to provide me with the complete story/analysis of the typical differences between civil & military. (only matched by another source that did an actual calculation/comparison involving an even more signficant difference between civil & military: the size/cooling-capacity (surface) of the radiator (almost 3 times larger in civil models!)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:48:48 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon OBrien" wrote: > > Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free play > in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. In the past 2 > years I've driven the truck about 5000 miles and have not noticed any > slipping problems until now. The truck was bought for a purpose that > I never used it for so it has only regular street use for past 2 years. > > The Series 111 Range Rover clutch that is mentioned by Linden > Engineering is a 10 inch clutch. From what I've seen in the Volvo > parts catalog, the TGB 111's had a 9 inch clutch. Rovers North sells > that size also so before I make an order I really need to determine > the correct size, UNLESS they are interchangeable. Anyone know for sure? > > My mechanic skills are just good enough to get me into trouble so I'm > relying on you guys who are the experts. > > Does Sorin, Dave Duff, and Jim Malloy still frequent this board? I > would have thought they would have been giving me their 2-cents worth. > Brandon, I am still on the list. I just don't have a lot of personal experience with the Volvo C-series clutch going bad. Mine has given faithful service for a LOT of miles over the past two years. What I can tell you is this: George Vaughan owns a C306 fire fighter. His clutch went south. He contacted someone here in the States for recommendations about a clutch replacement. The information he received was apparently not accurate. His truck has been sidelined for several months. He now has used clutch assembly coming in the parts shipment I have en route from Finland. In the mean time, I have made the recommendation to George that he take his original clutch assembly up to our nearest vintage LR specialist (in Olympia, WA) for comparison. I am not sure when he will do that. George encountered a problem with clutch cable failure as well. I could see how this would cause incomplete clutch disengagement making shifting more difficult. In my past experience with clutches in general, slipping is either from adjustment proplems, pressure plate spring failure, disc surface wear/glazing or oil on the disc/pressure plate interface. The Volvo bell housing is the first I recall encountering with its own drain plug. I would not have thought such an item would be needed but it is references in the operators manual. When I have opened that drain in the past, I have either had a single drop of oil or nothing drain out. If a rear main seal or front transmission seal were to fail, I could understand why the clutch complonents coud be saturated with oil. Hope this helps. Take care. Jim Molloy Waldersee Farm http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=F8nntass?= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:19:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Brandon OBrien : > Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free play > in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. =20 It's not enough to only look at the pedal. Be aware that there's some slang between the pedal-arm and the clutchwire. It has to be slack even after you've thighted in that slack. To be sure, I would adwice you to adjust the wire and see if it helps. It's located at the left side of the engine/gearbox, behind the left front seat. Christian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 12:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon OBrien" wrote: > > Thanks for the information. Yes, there is about an inch of free play > in the pedal before the throw-out bearing engages. In the past 2 > years I've driven the truck about 5000 miles and have not noticed any > slipping problems until now. The truck was bought for a purpose that > I never used it for so it has only regular street use for past 2 years. > > The Series 111 Range Rover clutch that is mentioned by Linden > Engineering is a 10 inch clutch. From what I've seen in the Volvo > parts catalog, the TGB 111's had a 9 inch clutch. Rovers North sells > that size also so before I make an order I really need to determine > the correct size, UNLESS they are interchangeable. Anyone know for sure? > > My mechanic skills are just good enough to get me into trouble so I'm > relying on you guys who are the experts. > > Does Sorin, Dave Duff, and Jim Malloy still frequent this board? I > would have thought they would have been giving me their 2-cents worth. > Hello Brandon, I had my clutch redone, it's 9.5" and it matches a Jaguar one. The guy who did it is specialized on clutches for exotic, race and hard to find cars. A clutch for a 164 is 9" and is too small. For larger clutch you need to shave the housing, and torque could rip things apart. Sorin. Life is a journey, enjoy the ride! To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Teppo Rapo Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 22:52:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Sorin Grigore kirjoitti: > Hello Brandon, > I had my clutch redone, it's 9.5" and it matches a > Jaguar one. The guy who did it is specialized on > clutches for exotic,, race and hard to find cars. A > clutch for a 164 is 9" and is too small. For larger > clutch you need to shave the housing, and torque could > rip things apart. > Sorin. Could you supply any details about the clutch? Jaguar? Which model? Any part #'s? My cars have new clutch at the moment but I really would like to know a modern replacement for Volvo stock cluths. As we been here before, old clutch has asbestos in them and that makes them way lot better that moder ones but.... we will run out f them some day.... -teppo To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Sorin Grigore Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 12:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- brandon o'brien wrote: > Sorin: > > Good to hear from you. Do you have a part number for > the Jag clutch? > > I've read other info that the 9.5 in Land Rover clutch > matches also. > > Brandon Hello Brandon, The guy rebuilds clutches to your specs, even Kevlar ones (he is located in Bay Area - San Jose). These are expensive... He works just with mechanics, not with the public. I will stop at the garage where I have the car and check the numbers printed on it, and I'll write you again. Sorin. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Sorin Grigore Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 22:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello Brandon, I got the part number of the clutch for you: 50052 Borg & Beck 52509. I hope it will help you. I wish I could do more... You can try Altyco as other members suggested, or the Volvo dealer in Oregon (see one of the latest messages). Sorin. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "brandon o'brien" Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 16:28:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Sorin; Is the 50052 the Jaguar part number? Brandon To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Sorin Grigore Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 07:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Slipping Clutch Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com brandon o'brien wrote: > Sorin; > Is the 50052 the Jaguar part number? > Brandon Both numbers are stamped on clutch. That guy didn't tell me which Jaguar model was matching. Sorin. http://www.c303.de/c303-forum/index.php?board=35;action=display;threadid=7410 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Re:Kupplungsteile « Antwort #10 am: 27.September 2006 00:33:34 » Antwort mit Zitat Moin zusammen, nach der Fahrzeugauswahl findet man hier.... http://webcat.zf-trading.com/index.asp?SPR=1 ....im ZF-Katalog die entsprechenden Daten mit Teile- und Referenznummern. Artikel Info : SACHS 1861 449 133 Artikel Info • Baugruppe: o Kupplungsscheibe • Lieferant: SACHS • Verpackungseinheit : 1 • EAN: o 4013872024940 o 4013872060276 (Austauschteil ) Artikel Status • Nicht mehr lieferbar (02/12/2003) Kriterien • Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N • Zähnezahl: 10 • Kenngröße: 228CPB • Durchmesser [mm]: 228 Ersetzungskette 1862 969 241 1861 451 102 1861 451 132 1861 449 102 1861 449 133 Vergleichsnummern SACHS Serie ZF SACHS • 18 1861 449 304 Vergleichsnummern ZF Trading SACHS • 18 1861 449 133 Vergleichsnummern Hersteller JOHN DEERE • HB 1358 VOLVO • 461134 • 1377562 Eingebaut in LAND ROVER : • 88/109 2.3 (LR 88 OL, LR 109 OL) (51 kW ; 09/1963 - 12/1986) • 88/109 Hardtop 2.3 (LR 88 OP, LR 109 OP) (51 kW ; 09/1963 - 12/1986) VOLVO : • 164 2.9 E (96 kW ; 08/1968 - 07/1973) 2.9 (118 kW ; 08/1972 - 07/1974) Artikel Info : SACHS 3082 973 001 Artikel Info • Baugruppe: o Kupplungsdruckplatte • Lieferant: SACHS • Verpackungseinheit : 1 • EAN: o 4013872054497 Artikel Status • Normal (07/11/1990) Kriterien • Durchmesser [mm]: 242 • Kenngröße: MF242 in Stückliste • 3000 950 701 ( Kupplungssatz / 1 Stück ) Ersetzungskette 1850 280 409 3082 973 001 Vergleichsnummern ZF Trading SACHS • 76 3082 973 001 Vergleichsnummern Hersteller VOLVO • 5430123 • 430123 Eingebaut in DAF : • SHERPA / FREIGHT ROVER 2,5 D (01/1983 - 03/1989) LAND ROVER : • 90/110 90 2,3 (55 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 110 2,3 (55 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 2.5 (62 kW ; 09/1985 - 07/1990) 90 2,5 Diesel (50 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 110 2,5 Diesel (50 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 2.5 TD (63 kW ; 09/1986 - 07/1990) • DEFENDER (LD) 2.5 90 TDI (83 kW ; 09/1990) • DEFENDER Station Wagon (LD) 2.5 (61 kW ; 09/1990) 2.5 D (51 kW ; 09/1990) 2.5 90,110 TDI (83 kW ; 09/1990 - 12/1998) • DISCOVERY I 2.0 16 V (99 kW ; 09/1993 - 06/1994) 2.5 TDI (83 kW ; 09/1989 - 06/1994) • DISCOVERY II (LJ, LT) 2.0 16 V (99 kW ; 06/1994) 2.5 TDI (83 kW ; 08/1996) 2.5 TDI (90 kW ; 10/1995) • RANGE ROVER I 2.4 Diesel (78 kW ; 04/1986 - 12/1990) • RANGE ROVER II (LP) 2.5 D (83 kW ; 08/1994 - 03/2002) • SERIES II SERIE II (01/1971 - 09/1971) • SERIES III SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1983) SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1985) SERIE III (03/1979 - 12/1983) VOLVO : • 164 2.9 E (96 kW ; 08/1968 - 07/1973) 2.9 (118 kW ; 08/1972 - 07/1974) Gruß Hartmut Frontlenker-Fan Re:Kupplungsteile « Antwort #14 am: Heute um 15:23:52 » Antwort mit Zitat Moin, die Sachs-Liste nennt folgende Möglichkeiten: Marke: SACHS 3082 973 001 Kupplungsdruckplatte EAN: 4013872054497 Länderspezifische Artikeldaten Artikel Status: Normal [07/11/1990] Verpackungseinheit: 1 Kriterien Durchmesser [mm]: 242 Kenngröße: MF242 in Stückliste 3000 950 701 ( Kupplungssatz / 1 Stück ) Ersetzungskette 1850 280 409 3082 973 001 Vergleichsnummern ZF Trading SACHS 76 3082 973 001 Vergleichsnummern Hersteller LAND ROVER 576557 FRC8573 FTC575 URB100760 VOLVO 5430123 430123 Eingebaut in DAF : SHERPA / FREIGHT ROVER 2,5 D (01/1983 - 03/1989) LAND ROVER : 90/110 90 2,3 (55 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 110 2,3 (55 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 2.5 (62 kW ; 09/1985 - 07/1990) 90 2,5 Diesel (50 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 110 2,5 Diesel (50 kW ; 01/1983 - 08/1990) 2.5 TD (63 kW ; 09/1986 - 07/1990) DEFENDER (LD) 2.5 90 TDI (83 kW ; 09/1990) DEFENDER Station Wagon (LD) 2.5 (61 kW ; 09/1990) 2.5 D (51 kW ; 09/1990) 2.5 90,110 TDI (83 kW ; 09/1990 - 12/1998) DISCOVERY I 2.0 16 V (99 kW ; 09/1993 - 06/1994) 2.5 TDI (83 kW ; 09/1989 - 06/1994) DISCOVERY II (LJ, LT) 2.0 16 V (99 kW ; 06/1994) 2.5 TDI (83 kW ; 08/1996) 2.5 TDI (90 kW ; 10/1995) RANGE ROVER I 2.4 Diesel (78 kW ; 04/1986 - 12/1990) RANGE ROVER II (LP) 2.5 D (83 kW ; 08/1994 - 03/2002) SERIES II SERIE II (01/1971 - 09/1971) SERIES III SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1983) SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1985) SERIE III (03/1979 - 12/1983) VOLVO : 164 2.9 E (96 kW ; 08/1968 - 07/1973) 2.9 (118 kW ; 08/1972 - 07/1974) ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** Artikel Info Marke: SACHS 1861 703 031 Kupplungsscheibe EAN: 4013872026500 4013872062157 (Austauschteil) Artikel Status: Normal [06/02/1996] Kriterien Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 240TD Durchmesser [mm]: 240 in Stückliste 3000 502 001 ( Kupplungssatz / 1 Stück ) Ersetzungskette 1861 703 031 Eingebaut in OPEL : MONZA A (22_) 3.0 (110 kW ; 04/1978 - 07/1982) 3.0 GSE (132 kW ; 02/1978 - 08/1986) 3.0 GSE (115 kW ; 09/1985 - 08/1986) SENATOR A (29_) 3.0 (110 kW ; 04/1978 - 07/1982) 3.0 (115 kW ; 09/1985 - 08/1987) 3.0 E (132 kW ; 02/1978 - 12/1986) VAUXHALL : ROYALE 2.9 (110 kW ; 04/1978 - 07/1982) 2.9 (115 kW ; 09/1985 - 08/1987) 2.9 E (132 kW ; 02/1978 - 12/1986) ROYALE Coupe 2.9 (132 kW ; 02/1978 - 08/1986) VOLVO : 260 (P262, P264) 2.7 (92 kW ; 08/1976 - 07/1982) 2.7 (103 kW ; 08/1974 - 07/1980) 2.7 (109 kW ; 08/1978 - 07/1982) 260 Coupe (P262) 2.7 (103 kW ; 08/1977 - 07/1978) ******************************************************************* Artikel Info Marke: SACHS 1862 928 001 Kupplungsscheibe EAN: 4013872052172 Länderspezifische Artikeldaten Artikel Status: Normal [31/08/1994] Kriterien Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 242CTB Durchmesser [mm]: 242 Ersetzungskette 1850 281 595 1862 928 001 Eingebaut in LAND ROVER : SERIES II SERIE II (01/1971 - 09/1971) SERIES III SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1983) SERIE III (01/1971 - 12/1985) SERIE III (03/1979 - 12/1983) NISSAN : PATROL Station Wagon (W160) 2.7 D (160) (01/1983 - 01/1985) PATROL Station Wagon (W260) 2.8 D (260) (10/1984 - 07/1994) *************************************************************************** Marke: SACHS 1861 224 005 Kupplungsscheibe Austauschteil EAN: 4013872027330 4013872059164 (Austauschteil) Artikel Status: Normal [04/12/1991] Kriterien Nabenprofil: 1 1/8"-10N Zähnezahl: 10 Kenngröße: 250GSZ Durchmesser [mm]: 250 Austauschteil: Ersetzungskette 1861 224 002 1861 224 005 Eingebaut in FAUN : F 24 - 284 F 24 F 284 D HANOMAG HENSCHEL : F 45 Garant Kurier L 28 Markant *********************************************************************** Die erste in der Liste nennt eine Andrückplatte (Kupplungsdruckplatte), die sollte zur C303-Schwungscheibe passen (da die Größe von 242mm genannt ist). Von den drei Mitnehmerscheiben mit dem passenden Nabenprofil habe ich die erste zuhause liegen, leider aber keine orginal Volvo-Reibscheibe mehr zum Vergleich. Die zweite aus der Liste könnte auch passen. Ob sie wirklich passen, kann nur ein Vergleich mit einer orginal Mitnehmerscheibe klären. ****************************************************************** Ein Ausrücklager habe ich gefunden aber es ist leider nicht mehr lieferbar: Marke: SACHS 1850 282 144 Ausrücklager EAN: 4013872050437 Länderspezifische Artikeldaten Artikel Status: Nicht mehr lieferbar [06/02/2001] Verpackungseinheit: 1 Kriterien Kenngröße: KZA-0 Vergleichsnummern Hersteller VOLVO 678985 ************************************************** Gruß Jens « Letzte Änderung: Heute um 19:18:39 von Raptgbil » Rickard TGB1314 ** Re:Kupplungsteile « Antwort #19 am: Heute um 18:47:23 » Antwort mit Zitat Meine Info von einem schwedischen Militärzeugshändler ist: TGB20 hatte eine 10" Kupplungsscheibe sprich 254mm. TGB11 und 13 hatte eine 9 1/2 sprich ca. 242 mm. Aus meinen eigene Volvo 164 Schrauberzeiten weiß ich: Es gab ursprünglich unterschiedliche Kupplungen für den B30A (130PS) und B30E (160PS). Später wurde seitens Volvo dann nur noch 160PS Kupplung verkauft. Mir bekannt sind 2 Originalausrüster für Volvo: Sachs und Borg&Beck. Habe in den 15 Jahren 164 etliche Fahrzeuge gehabt und auch Kupplungen getauscht. Meine Feststellung: Borg&Beck hat nichts getaugt. Kann aber sein, dass ich damals noch eine B30A Kupplung erwischt habe, die ich in meinen B30E Motor montiert habe Dann hatte ich eine Kupplung von Meyer&Sehl gekauft. Günstig und erstmal gut. Als ich den Motor anschließend aufgemöbelt habe (3,2l, große Ventile, Nockenwelle, frei programmierbare Einspritzanlage und so) gab die Kupplung sofort auf. Habe dann eine Original Sachs Kupplung für B30E montiert und siehe da... hat Jahre gehalten. Mein Fazit: Sofern kein Originalteil zu bekommen ist, Sachs Kupplung für B30E montieren (keine Experimente mit Plagiaten und Borg&Beck). Wahrscheinlich nicht die günstigste, aber sicher die beste Lösung. Wer will schon 2 mal hintereinander Kupplung wechseln. TGB_11 Re:Kupplungsteile « Antwort #22 am: Heute um 09:41:20 » Antwort mit Zitat Gestern ist die Reibscheibe vom LR Serie III eingetroffen. Die hat 9,5" (240 mm) Durchmesser und die passende Verzahnung. Sie paßt übrigens sehr gut zum Audi-Schwungrad, ich habe jetzt also die passende Kupplung für den Umbau Ich bin auch der Meinung, dass sie am orginal Volvo-Schwungrad passen würde, die Reibscheibe hat keinen Überstand in Richtung Schwungrad. Landrover-Teilenummer: FRC2297 Kosten: so zwischen 60 und 70 Euro, je nach Anbieter Gruß Jens xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.c303.de/c303-forum/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=9417;start=msg65886#msg65886 xxxxxxxx rijo Re:Schwungscheibe Volvo B30 (E) gesucht! « am: Gestern um 19:51:15 » Antwort mit Zitat nach oben Zitat von: kueppi am Gestern um 19:00:50 hallo richtig es gibt nur 6 oder 8 loch...alles andere ist gleich.... habe aber leider auch nur noch eine, und die ist auf einem fast neuen motor drauf.... grüße küppi Nee Küppi, eben nicht. Array Die Lochkreise für die Kupplung variieren. Es gibt beim C30X mindestens zwei verschiedene Schwungscheiben, eine mit ~ 250er und eine mit ~240er Kupplungs-LK. Der C306 hat eine größere Kupplung und entsprechend größer ist der LK in der Schwungscheibe. Man könnte nen entsprechenden LK zusätzlich machen, aber ne andere Schwungscheibe wäre praktischer ;-) Ich suche demnach eine metr. 8-Loch-Standard-Schwungscheibe mit 240er Kupplungs-LK. Danke, jochen WJM Re:Schwungscheibe Volvo B30 (E) gesucht! « am: Heute um 01:09:37 » Antwort mit Zitat Mitteilung ändern Mitteilung löschen nach oben Zitat von: rijo am Gestern um 19:51:15 Zitat von: kueppi am Gestern um 19:00:50 hallo richtig es gibt nur 6 oder 8 loch...alles andere ist gleich.... habe aber leider auch nur noch eine, und die ist auf einem fast neuen motor drauf.... grüße küppi Nee Küppi, eben nicht. Array Die Lochkreise für die Kupplung variieren. Es gibt beim C30X mindestens zwei verschiedene Schwungscheiben, eine mit ~ 250er und eine mit ~240er Kupplungs-LK. Der C306 hat eine größere Kupplung und entsprechend größer ist der LK in der Schwungscheibe. Man könnte nen entsprechenden LK zusätzlich machen, aber ne andere Schwungscheibe wäre praktischer ;-) Ich suche demnach eine metr. 8-Loch-Standard-Schwungscheibe mit 240er Kupplungs-LK. Danke, jochen Dabei in der Nomenklatura nochmals aufpassen: sehr leicht koennte man die Angabe '240er Lochkreis' verwechseln mit '240er Kupplungsflaeche-Durchmesser' (die Flaechen sind 10"/254mm (zivil & TGB20) vs 9.5"/242mm (alle andere, es soll aber hin und wieder Ausnahmen/Zufaelle gegeben haben, 10" auch bei sonstige Militaer)).... also Kreis/Radius vs Durchmesser. Wer sich den Abend verderben will bezueglich diesen Kupplungsunterschiede darf hier noch mal nachlesen....;)) http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/volvo_clutch.txt (auch diesen Thread mal hinzugefugt, wegen Lochzahl/Lochkreis) xxxxxxxx