To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "chrisbuick1" Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:17:25 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Now That I have One - It needs LOTS of TLC Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com I thought I'd pass along some info I've put together so far on my new C 304. It now will not start. As David quite rightly said, the carb/cumbustion chambers are loaded with goop from storage. These units use a pair of Stromberg/Zenith 175 CD carburetors similar to those used on Triumph GT6's, later MG's, etc.. Gower & Lee (www.gowerandlee.co.uk), an outfit in Watford/UK (where I used to live!) has complete info and rebuild parts listing for these units. While similar,they are much touchier than SU's, which appear to be more reliable (conversion might be advisable). I have e-mailed them concerning what's available/prices. I have not been able to find an adequate US supplier, yet. I always find dealing with British companies a pleasure, anyways. Mechanical fuel pumps are available from www.ipdusa.com (WS2C0249) for $34.00 Once I get all the carb info, I'll then undertake an intelligent rebuild Any Thoughts - Chris Shattuck To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "chrisbuick1" Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:22:16 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Now That I have One - It needs LOTS of TLC Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "chrisbuick1" wrote: > I thought I'd pass along some info I've put together so far on my new > C 304. It now will not start. As David quite rightly said, the > carb/cumbustion chambers are loaded with goop from storage. These > units use a pair of Stromberg/Zenith 175 CD carburetors similar to > those used on Triumph GT6's, later MG's, etc.. Gower & Lee > (www.gowerandlee.co.uk), an outfit in Watford/UK (where I used to > live!) has complete info and rebuild parts listing for these units. > While similar,they are much touchier than SU's, which appear to be > more reliable (conversion might be advisable). I have e-mailed them > concerning what's available/prices. I have not been able to find an > adequate US supplier, yet. I always find dealing with British > companies a pleasure, anyways. > Mechanical fuel pumps are available from www.ipdusa.com (WS2C0249) > for $34.00 > Once I get all the carb info, I'll then undertake an intelligent > rebuild. Also - Haynes has a Weber/Stromber/Zenith/SU repair manual - 12.97 @ The Motor Bookstore.com Anyone have any info on converting to sealed power lifters - the stock appear to be a problem. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Ken Nelson" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:41:01 +0000 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Now That I have One - It needs LOTS of TLC Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >From: "chrisbuick1" >Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:17:25 -0000 > > I thought I'd pass along some info I've put together so far on my new > C 304. It now will not start. As David quite rightly said, the > carb/cumbustion chambers are loaded with goop from storage. These > units use a pair of Stromberg/Zenith 175 CD carburetors similar to > those used on Triumph GT6's, later MG's, etc.. Gower & Lee > (www.gowerandlee.co.uk), an outfit in Watford/UK (where I used to > live!) has complete info and rebuild parts listing for these units. > While similar,they are much touchier than SU's, which appear to be > more reliable (conversion might be advisable). I have e-mailed them > concerning what's available/prices. I have not been able to find an > adequate US supplier, yet. I always find dealing with British > companies a pleasure, anyways. > Mechanical fuel pumps are available from www.ipdusa.com (WS2C0249) > for $34.00 > Once I get all the carb info, I'll then undertake an intelligent > rebuild > Any Thoughts - Chris Shattuck I encountered the same problem with my 1111. I then talked to some people I know on the regiments garage. When they encounter this problem they'll do like this: a) Replace all the fuel hoses from tank to carburetors (fuel hoses fitted are known to be from a bad subcontractor). b) Replace the fuel filter close to the tank. Leave the 'glas'-one in front! c) Open the carburetors top and remove the throttels (can be done with the carburators fitted) d) Open bottom of the carburretors (can be done with the carburators fitted). e) Use compressed air to blow clean the carb(carefully though). f) Remove ALL fuel from tank (It's usaually 10-15yrs old fuel) with rust in it, and wash it through. g) Fill the tank with max 5ltr (Appr. 1US gal) gazoline. h) Pour in 1ltr of 'antifreeze' alcohol. i) Fire up. I've owned a lot of old Volvos during the yrs which have the same carburators. My experience is that when it works, it works fine, but when it's not working, just leave it and go to the junkyard and buy a new one for $10. In Sweden these carb is so common that you usaually get it for almost free, but you US-guys probably have bigger problem finding replacements. My own thoughts about this is that if you consider the cost/truble of getting spareparts, specialtools and all the 'trial 'n error' needed, it's better to replace the carb for fuelinjection. You can get at least 10 different 'multipurpose' fuel injection brands on the market. Cost is around $500 + 2 throttle houses (New or from the junkyard).These systems are=20 usually made for streetracing where the cost rapidly increases, but since we don't need all this extras (rev-limiters and god knows what), we only need the 'basic' configuration. The benefits are obvious: a) These systems controls the ignintion as well (=Getting rid of this useless pointer). b) Works even if the car leans. c) Fuel consumption gets lower. d) Engine runs smoother. e) You can change the fuel- and ignition-curves through a laptop while driving. f) Lifelength of engine increases. g) Starting in cold weather can be optimized (today it's ridiculus rich in fuel). I changed my ignition to electronic (Lumention), almost immediately after recieving my 1111 since I knew how bad it works originally and this increased the driving ability significantly. Fuel injection is my next step. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "chrisbuick1" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:59:06 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Zenith/Stromberg 175 CD SE2 Carb Info Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Just in case anyone wants info on the Z/S 175CD SE2 carburetors which come stock on the B30A, Joe Curto in NYC (www.JoeCurto.com) has complete rebuild kits available for @ $125 pr. , or he will rebuild them for $375 pr. He's very knowledgeable, having been in the business many years. These carbs were used on late 70's XKE's (as well as Spitfires, Minxes, Mg's, etc.), when emissions pushed the SU's out. Hope this is useful. Chris Shattuck To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 16:30:31 GMT Subject: [Volvo303] Mikuni carburetor replacement Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello everybody, I spoke with Chris at PRI (www.prirace.com) regarding the kit to replace the Zenith-Stromberg carburetors. He may have a kit made for C303 (one C303 owner intends to have the car at his shop, and he can adapt the actual kit). It would be great to have a bolt on kit, with nothing to adjust. Sorin. (see revival of this particular thread further down this page (March/2007) To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "John Roddam" Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:58:05 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Carburettor Leak Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hi, My TGB11 just passed it's uk roadworthiness test (MOT) which was a big relief, but the night before when I was moving it out of its shed, it developed a really bad petrol leak from the forward carburettor. The floatbowl just emptied out via the brass capped nylon plug in the bottom. This plug had just dropped out of its seating a couple of mil. I made a temporary repair with PTFE tape but obviously need a permanent fix. Has anyone else had this? Is the answer simply a new 'o' ring? What is the purpose of this plug? Thanks as always John To: From: "John Allen" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:56:02 +1000 Subject: RE: [Volvo303] Carburettor Leak Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: John Roddam [mailto:john.roddam@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 January 2005 6:58 AM > Hi, > My TGB11 just passed it's uk roadworthiness test (MOT) which was a > big relief, but the night before when I was moving it out of its > shed, it developed a really bad petrol leak from the forward > carburettor. > > The floatbowl just emptied out via the brass capped nylon plug in > the bottom. > > This plug had just dropped out of its seating a couple of mil. > > I made a temporary repair with PTFE tape but obviously need a > permanent fix. > > Has anyone else had this? > > Is the answer simply a new 'o' ring? > > What is the purpose of this plug? > > Thanks as always > > John John, Bit exciting given the proximity to the exhaust system. It doesn't do much for the fuel consumption either This has happened to me (and by the number of spares that I got with the vehicle properly to previous owners). I have considered changing the assembly to accept a screw in type of fitting. But there are other things I here I intend to chase as well. To adjust the air / fuel mix not easy unless you have special tools on the C300 carbys. (Need to press things about) Similar units have either an adjustable needle (accessed from the top or alternatively an adjustable main jet location that features a screw from the bottom of the bowel assembly that requires no tools (apart from instrumentation to know the air / fuel mixture) to effect an adjustment of mixture. So at this stage I have put a loop of wire under the plug. John Allen Australia To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "John Roddam" Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:12:05 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Carburettor Leak Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "John Allen" wrote: > John, > Bit exciting given the proximity to the exhaust system. It doesn't do much > for the fuel consumption either > > This has happened to me (and by the number of spares that I got with the > vehicle properly to previous owners). I have considered changing the > assembly to accept a screw in type of fitting. But there are other things I > here I intend to chase as well. > > To adjust the air / fuel mix not easy unless you have special tools on the > C300 carbys. (Need to press things about) Similar units have either an > adjustable needle (accessed from the top or alternatively an adjustable main > jet location that features a screw from the bottom of the bowel assembly > that requires no tools (apart from instrumentation to know the air / fuel > mixture) to effect an adjustment of mixture. > > > So at this stage I have put a loop of wire under the plug. > > John Allen > Australia Thanks John ( and Mats ), It must be just about impossible to get in and adjust things via these plugs with the carbs in-situ - especially the rear one. Presumably you make a tweak, put things back together, see how it runs and repeat the process. From the stuff I've read on setting up and balancing these carbs they sound like a nightmare. The play in the choke and throttle linkages alone seems to make successful balancing improbable. Does anyone know of a low maintenance swap solution (Willem?). What do you have to take into consideration when looking for replacement carbs? is it just engine capacity? I'd like to consider a dual petrol/LPG setup at sometime and a single carb would seem to make more sense. John To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Jim Molloy" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:44:03 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: 12V Parts Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "wbmayberry" wrote: > > I got asked the same question when I converted my Pinzgauer 712M to 12 > volts. There are several reasons. > > 1. 12 volt parts (starters, alternators, headlamps, etc) are > significantly easier to find and considerably cheaper in cost then > their 24 volt counterparts. > > 2. Jumps starts. (Giving and receiving). > > 3. Engine related accessories (I plan to put in a true electronic > ignition (Crane XR3000)and possibly a cruise control). > > The 3 of the 4 times my battery was dead, it was because I left the > 24-12 volt converter on in the truck. > > S/F, > > Will Will, Nice to see you back safe and sound. The 24v-to-12v conversion argument is one that frequently surfaces in the Unimog community as well. When I converted my 1963 Unimog 404 from 24 to 12 volt, I heard from many skeptics. I look at the issue as a matter of preference. I like the convenience of being able to go into any auto parts store to buy bulbs and order electrical parts from many sources dealing with 12v sedan parts. I like not having to rely on a voltage converted. Volvo obviously had confidence enough in their 12v components to originally equip some of the C-series truck in that voltage. The same can be said for MB and the Unimog. I 1)applaud you for your efforts, 2)look forward to your end result and 3)offer my assistance in investigating the details should you need it. I have a remanufactured 164 sedan distributor (Bosch 0 231 142 001) heading my direction at this moment. I believe the Pertronix UM-161 module/magnet combo should fit that smaller diameter distributor with minimal fitting. That Pertronix module does function in both 24v and 12v systems. Take care. Jim Molloy Waldersee Fram http://www.northwestmogfest.com http://www.volvo4x4.com To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "wbmayberry" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:53:54 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: 12V Parts Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Molloy" wrote: > > Will, > Nice to see you back safe and sound. > > The 24v-to-12v conversion argument is one that frequently surfaces > in the Unimog community as well. When I converted my 1963 Unimog 404 > from 24 to 12 volt, I heard from many skeptics. I look at the issue > as a matter of preference. I like the convenience of being able to > go into any auto parts store to buy bulbs and order electrical parts > from many sources dealing with 12v sedan parts. I like not having to > rely on a voltage converted. > > Volvo obviously had confidence enough in their 12v components to > originally equip some of the C-series truck in that voltage. The > same can be said for MB and the Unimog. I 1)applaud you for your > efforts, 2)look forward to your end result and 3)offer my assistance > in investigating the details should you need it. I have a > remanufactured 164 sedan distributor (Bosch 0 231 142 001) heading > my direction at this moment. I believe the Pertronix UM-161 > module/magnet combo should fit that smaller diameter distributor > with minimal fitting. That Pertronix module does function in both > 24v and 12v systems. > > Take care. > > Jim Molloy > Waldersee Fram > http://www.northwestmogfest.com > http://www.volvo4x4.com Jim, Thanks for the moral support. I went throught the same drill converting my Pinz 712M to 12 volts. In the end, everything worked, except I couldn't find the high-low beam module (relay with mechanical locks), so I had to just hold it back when I wanted high beams. In my Pinz, I put in a full electronic ignition (the one for VW's that comes with a Bosch '009 distributor, true electronic ignition, and high-performance coil. My gas mileage went up to 13 MPG! I'm putting in an even higher performance (higher voltage & longer sparktime) electronic ignition (Crane XR3000) which should give me the same or better results. All I need is 12 volts... In my Pinz, I tried hooking up the electronic ignition just to the low side battery. Ended up frying 2 ignition coils before I converted to 12 volts. One of the electical engineers out there might be able to explain that. Electrical loop circuits or something. Tell me how the distributor works. I'm going to try my Crane system on the stock distributor. I think the trigger will fit in OK. If not, I'll be getting a 164 distributor also! S/F, Will PS I'll upload a picture of me on an Iraqi T-72 tank there at Camp Fallujah. For some reason, the wouldn't let me take it home! To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:41:30 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: 12V Parts Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >Jim, > >Thanks for the moral support. I went throught the same drill >converting my Pinz 712M to 12 volts. In the end, everything worked, >except I couldn't find the high-low beam module (relay with mechanical >locks), so I had to just hold it back when I wanted high beams.=20 > >In my Pinz, I put in a full electronic ignition (the one for VW's that >comes with a Bosch '009 distributor, true electronic ignition, and >high-performance coil. My gas mileage went up to 13 MPG! I'm putting >in an even higher performance (higher voltage & longer sparktime) >electronic ignition (Crane XR3000) which should give me the same or >better results. All I need is 12 volts... > >In my Pinz, I tried hooking up the electronic ignition just to the low >side battery. Ended up frying 2 ignition coils before I converted to >12 volts. One of the electical engineers out there might be able to >explain that. Electrical loop circuits or something. > >Tell me how the distributor works. I'm going to try my Crane system >on the stock distributor. I think the trigger will fit in OK. If >not, I'll be getting a 164 distributor also! > >S/F, > >Will > >PS I'll upload a picture of me on an Iraqi T-72 tank there at Camp >Fallujah. For some reason, the wouldn't let me take it home! > 123ignition make a electronic distributor for the C30x Volvo. It makes a VW distributor with amongst others the "Bosch '009" curve built in as well. Their electronic ignitions are imho superior to other products, i features f.i.variable dwell that adjusts automatically to the coil, no moving parts in the distributor (weights, vacuum membrane, springs etc) but a fully micro processor controlled ignition curve. No external black box, everything is built into the polished replacement distributor. It does work on 6 or 12V but you need a 5A 24 -> 12V converter and a 12V coil to use it in a 24v truck. /Aryan To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:50:46 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] 123ignition i a C304 / Tgb 13 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hi, I'm involved in selling the 123ignition electronic distributors so obviously I'm not fully neutral but I just want to inform you about the first user experiences of the new 123\Volvo-B30 electronic distributor in a C304 I hope that is ok on this list. The truck has a 24V system and the 123ignition distributors needs a power supply of between 4V - 18V so we used a 24V -> 12V converter as a power supply, the electronics only draw a very small current of a few mA's so the 3 A mascot converter really was an overkill but it works fine. The 123ignition distributor can handle a 24V coil current though, so we used the stock coil on 24V, but thanks to the variable automatic dwell we could remove the ignition coil resistor for an even stronger spark. Installation was very easy, first you need to chose the right ignition curve for the engine (in this case ignition curve 8). Just swap the old distributor for the 123ignition distributor, setting the timing on -10° BTDC is primary done with the build-in LED, and fine-tuning can be done with a stroboscope. The engine ran perfectly well on the conventional ignition system but seemed to run smoother on the 123 right from the start. The truck had previously all new ignition parts (points, condenser etc) and a distributor that had not been used much, these parts had already reduced the fuel consumption from 24l/100km to 22l/100km (9.8 mpg to 10.7 mpg) but today the user told me that the 123ignition reduced fuel consumption with 10% more, from 22l/100km to 20l/100km (10.7 mpg to 11.8 mpg). Not bad with todays fuel prices, other advantages are a better starting and running engine and that the electronic distributor - with no moving parts except for the rotor - makes the ignition system maintenance free, except for the rotor, rotor cap and ignition leads. An image of the unit and (Swedish only) information and the Bosch distributor part numbers it replaces can be found here: http://www.123ignition.se/index.php?id=14 Regards Aryan -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Aryan Schmitz http://www.123ignition.se/ aryan.schmitz@korridor.se Tel +46 8 720 19 40 Aspövägen 27 Fax +46 8 720 41 60 SE-125 40 ÄLVSJÖ GSM +46 70 749 66 84 Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Teppo Rapo Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:47:06 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Re: [Volvo303] 123ignition i a C304 / Tgb 13 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Aryan Schmitz kirjoitti 05.04.2005 kello 01:50: > > Hi, > > I'm involved in selling the 123ignition electronic distributors so > obviously I'm not fully neutral but I just want to inform you about the > first user experiences of the new 123\Volvo-B30 electronic distributor in a > C304 I hope that is ok on this list. > > The truck has a 24V system and the 123ignition distributors needs a power > supply of between 4V - 18V so we used a 24V -> 12V converter as a power > supply, the electronics only draw a very small current of a few mA's so the > 3 A mascot converter really was an overkill but it works fine. > > The 123ignition distributor can handle a 24V coil current though, so we > used the stock coil on 24V, but thanks to the variable automatic dwell we > could remove the ignition coil resistor for an even stronger spark. > > Installation was very easy, first you need to chose the right ignition > curve for the engine (in this case ignition curve 8). Just swap the old > distributor for the 123ignition distributor, setting the timing on -10° > BTDC is primary done with the build-in LED, and fine-tuning can be done > with a stroboscope. The engine ran perfectly well on the conventional > ignition system but seemed to run smoother on the 123 right from the > start. > > The truck had previously all new ignition parts (points, condenser etc) and > a distributor that had not been used much, these parts had already reduced > the fuel consumption from 24l/100km to 22l/100km (9.8 mpg to 10.7 mpg) but > today the user told me that the 123ignition reduced fuel consumption with > 10% more, from 22l/100km to 20l/100km (10.7 mpg to 11.8 mpg). Not bad with > todays fuel prices, other advantages are a better starting and running > engine and that the electronic distributor - with no moving parts except > for the rotor - makes the ignition system maintenance free, except for the > rotor, rotor cap and ignition leads. > > An image of the unit and (Swedish only) information and the Bosch > distributor part numbers it replaces can be found here > > http://www.123ignition.se/index.php?id=14 > > > Regards Aryan Hi Aryan! Got interested about your ingition system. My Volvo is an radiocar and due to the fact it has an quite a special distriputor cover and leads , if you know these specially insulated for any spark interference, I have plans to convert it to normal system as there is spare problem with these insualated ones and convential ones are available from any spare selling store or service station. So, If you could reply/mail me with a pricing information with tax and shipping to Finland. Thanks in advace: -teppo from sunny Helsinki http://www.scout.1g.fi/Files/Volvo/Images/AA-RHZ-509.jpg Teppo Rapo +358 40 5508394 Riimusauvantie 9 FIN-00740 Helsinki ................................................................... Luukku Plus paketilla pääset eroon tila- ja turvallisuusongelmista. Hanki Luukku Plus ja helpotat elämääsi. http://www.mtv3.fi/luukku To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:03:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] 123ignition i a C304 / Tgb 13 Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >Aryan Schmitz kirjoitti 05.04.2005 kello 01:50: >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm involved in selling the 123ignition electronic distributors so >> obviously I'm not fully neutral but I just want to inform you about the >> first user experiences of the new 123\Volvo-B30 electronic > > distributor in a C304 I hope that is ok on this list. > > > > >> An image of the unit and (Swedish only) information and the Bosch >> distributor part numbers it replaces can be found here >> http://www.123ignition.se/index.php?id=14 >> >> >> Regards Aryan > > >Hi Aryan! > >Got interested about your ingition system. My Volvo is an radiocar and due to >the fact it has an quite a special distriputor cover and leads , if you know >these specially insulated for any spark interference, > I have plans to convert it to normal system as there is spare problem with > these insualated ones and convential ones are available from any spare selling > store or service station. Hi Teppo, Yes I know of these radiocars that use shielded distributor caps, shielded ignition leads and special sparkplugs. The 123distributor includes a standard Bosch distributor cap (Bosch part no 1 235 522 060) and rotor so it can be used when converting to standard (silicone) ignition leads and plugs. You probably have a 24V system as well, then you need a small 24V -> 12V converter (the module uses less than 1 watt) as well. >So, If you could reply/mail me with a pricing information with tax and shipping >to Finland. The price is SEK 2232 exkl MOMS (VAT), SEK 2790 inkl 20% MOMS, shipping would be SEK 217,50. inkl Moms Please mail me off-list to aryan.schmitz@korridor.se with the word "sesam" in the subject line (in order not to get caught in my spamfilter) if you are interested. regards, Aryan To: From: "Clifford Plavin" Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:56:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] ZF gearbox, 5sp vs 4sp, Volvo vs Pinzgauer Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:39 PM > On 4 Apr 2005 at 22:04, Clifford Plavin wrote: > >> >> The S5/18 3 gearbox from the Maserati Biturbo, alfa Romeo montreal and >> Bedford truck will not work in the TGB11 or TGB 13 as the front and rear >> sections of the gearbox housing are entirely different in each application. >> I believe that the internal components are all very similar other then the >> gear ratios used for each of them. The only way to install this box is to >> use the one from the TGB 20 and then change some of the gears internally to >> provide the ratio you desire. > > You mean TGB20 box, combined with overdrive gears of the most > favorable candidate (I doubt any other does better than the > Pinzgauer's 0.7 (assuming they kept it close to that in the later > generation)). > > Btw, any idea whether the ZF 4sp matches with any other application > as well? > (it gets a bit tricky with only 4 gears, in case of such a tall > overdrive, but perhaps one can compensate with a stronger engine) > >> I have the drawings from ZF for each of >> these boxes and was contemplating performing the change with the correct >> parts. > > Probably none of that documentation easy to scan or put online, is > it?....;)) > >> Even if you can get the components reuired for the swap if you need to get >> synchros the price is prohibitive from ZF for them. You are looking at a >> very pricey upgrade to get to the next level of performance. > > Can you give us some estimates, or samples? > And does that apply in particular to the Maserati, or is that generic > to ZF? > (or: wouldn't the Pinzgauer gears be a better option, for even more > overdrive at possible lower cost?) > (will post a question to the Pinz-TD list to hear the exact ratio's, > and perhaps even price for most of the internals) > >> I personally >> want the .79 fifth gear offered in the Biturbo gearbox if it will >> interchange to the box used in the TGB 20. > > Btw, any idea about the ease of changing the 4sp for this 5sp? > (*if* both boxes were planned simultaneously right from the start, > they might have kept external (box) dimensions equal, but I somehow > doubt that....and it still leaves you with the problem of changing > the gear-linkage) > (note that *if* external dimensions of 4sp and 5sp are not identical, > then the C306, being a LWB 4sp, must use different parts as well (if > only the length of front & rear driveshaft!)) > >> Using the gears from the Biturbo >> if possible along with a 164E injected engine swap should provide plenty of >> get up and go as well as reduced engine speeds when crusing in fifth gear. >> The gas milage should also be improved substantially at the same time. > > Btw, is the entire 164E engine different, or would only swapping some > parts also work? > > Btw2: this gearing issue is even more important when considering a > diesel swap....with the added problem that a different gearbox will > probably cause a nightmare with the shift-linkage, not to mention > towards the T-case....and avoiding the linkage problem with an > automatic transmission still doesn't solve the T-case adaption.... > > > Oh btw, even in PTO-context this S5/18 is mentioned....:)) > > http://www.pto-usa.com/frames/main/prodmain.html > The price for the parts for the gearbox are all similar from ZF regardlessof which manufacturer it is ultimately going to. The synchros will cost you between $400.00- $500.00 USD each with the bearings being nothing special generally speaking from ym previous experience in rebuilding a few ZF boxes. I doubt that buying a Pinz box will help you at all and the linkages for all of these items are completely different from each other as they are made for the gearbox to the ultimate manufacturers specifications. A Masserati linkage is simple compared to the Volvo's. I have someone checking for me in Sweden on the size of the TGB20 gearbox realtive to the S4 18/3 to see if it will be an easy swap out. I am hoping that since the entire drivetrain is the saem that the gearbox simply will drop in and the driveshaft length is different and I will have that dimension cut and rebalanced which is simple to do. I somehow think that there will be a snag somewhere as nothing in life with a truck of this type could be this simple. I hope I prove myself wrong and its a piece of cake! The engine needs to use the block from the TGB rather than the 164 which you simply graft the injected cylinder head and all of its associated components on to. You would also use the higher compression pistons from the 164e and possibly add the "K" cam for even more power. I spoke to someone that has already doen this and advised that the most important thing is to get a good donor car that is all there and running especially need to have a good wiring harness for the injection system as new ones are supposedly not available. I would think that you could use alsmost any other inline six cylinder D-Jetronic wiring harness as they all use the same ECU, injectors (different spray patterns), etc. so a BMW 3.0 SI, a number of Mercedes from the early '70s etc might be ok for wiring in a pinch. Cliff To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "David Touitou" Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:25:38 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] 123ignition on my Vattenfall C303 Hello all, this message to the group to sum'up a few weeks with my brand new 123ignition distributor (and spark cables and spark plugs and coil). I have no clue how old were the precedent coil, plugs, cables and distributor. The 123 distributor (arrived by post in a nice box) is a very nice piece of work, nicely machined, very easy to setup to the right ignition curve. Putting it in the vehicule was very easy too ; it was more difficult to change the coil for a new one than fitting the new distributor. Static timing is very easy too, due to the integrated LED (even if I misread the documentation, trying to center the LED in the hole instead of choosing the position when it starts to light). It took me two hours to fit the whole thing (from spark plugs to coil) and do the correct static timing. Now the good news with this new toy : . starting the (cold) engine (with choke on, its a bit cold these days) happens on first or second key turn (instead of 4 to 8 and more). It starts on first key move (without touching the accelerator) once the engine is hot. . idle is smooth, _very_ smooth, no more hickup either cold or hot . more torque : I can drive up hills in 3rd gear gaining speed while I had to drive in 2nd gear at constant speed before . more power : I could cruise above 100km/h on the highway yesterday (GPS speed) and I would have been able to go faster . more constancy : the engine does not stall anymore when turning at very slow speed, such as parking (due to the power steering pump efforts) . I feel lot more secure at very low speed (not afraid of stalling) The "bad" news : no effect (yet) on mileage... BUT ! With the 123 fitted, it is clear the fuel mixture is really too rich. This is show both with a fast spark plug study (after a 150 km trip yesterday) or by the idle being so high I can start to drive the C303 without using the accelerator. I'll go to my motorist this week for a carbs setting (and asking him how high is currently the idle). Currently, on travelling arround Beaucaire (90 km/h limited roads, trails, no highway) the B30 drinks 23 liters of SP98 per 100 km. If you have any question about the 123 , just ask. David. PS : I'd like to thank Aryan with his help (about static timing or sending me the ignition cables I could not found in France). To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Teppo Rapo" Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:38:37 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Aryan, we want more! :) Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Hello Aryan if you can hear me, my mail service provider is doing some maintenance today, so I'm not available from my @luukku.com mail box today. Could you contact me via my gmain address with teppo.rapo and @gmail(dot)com (to fool spammers), I would like to make an order for a one more set of 123 ingitions for C303 of one of my friend. Then question, was it so that you could remove resistor for ignition coil when using 123 distributor? ...looking for a stronger spark at idle. -teppo To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:30:37 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Aryan, we want more! :) Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >Hello >Aryan if you can hear me, Yes I can hear you :-) > my mail service provider is doing some >maintenance today, so I'm not available from my @luukku.com mail box >today. Could you contact me via my gmain address with teppo.rapo and >@gmail(dot)com (to fool spammers), I would like to make an order for a >one more set of 123 ingitions for C303 of one of my friend. Yes, I'll send you a note off list. >Then question, was it so that you could remove resistor for ignition >coil when using 123 distributor? ...looking for a stronger spark at >idle. Yes you can remove the resistor (or simply just shortcut it), it will give you a stronger spark because the coil will get better charged. If you still want a stronger spark especially at very high RPM you can change the coil to any (even 12V) coil with a lower primary resistance than the one that you have now, also making an extra ground wire connection between the engine block and the 123ignition distributor, there is a special hole with M5 thread in the bottom to accommodate such a ground wire. Are you happy with how the engine is running with the 123 ? /Aryan -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Aryan Schmitz Korridor AB aryan.schmitz@korridor.se http://www.korridor.se Tel +46 8 720 41 50 info@korridor.se Fax +46 8 720 41 60 Aspövägen 27 GSM +46 70 749 66 84 125 40 Stockholm SMS mailto:0707496684@sms.tele2.se Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Teppo Rapo To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Volvo303] 123 ignition istalled Date sent: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:26:42 +0300 (EEST) Send reply to: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com During past few days we installed 123 distributor to 2 Volvos. Difference is unbeliveable! Torq and smoothness of the engine has to be experienced! I installed them with stock coil as we did not have anything else availabe at the moment. I will replace my coil with 12v version and run it with 24 volts. I need to go spare dealer and measure the coils to find the one with enough resistance. By using a stock coil the installaion took like 40 minutes from two of us, second one with shielted system took closer to 3 hours from just me as you need to replace leads and spark plugs as well as need to do some tricks to get shileded coil to operate with 123. How could we get 123 into radiocar igition system (shielted)? All abnormal sounds from the engine was gone, now the engine sounds like the in-line 6 should, for the very first time. Off-road the improvement is exeptional, engine doesnt not have the habit to stall when driving at idle or close to it. Need of shoke was minimum, even though we had few subzero degrees in celsius, once the car was running you can turn choke off and leave the car to warm up. You could easilly use gears 2 and 3 at off-road where earlier first gear was just about the only option. On-road I would like to drive a bit more to see how it behaves but I'm 100% sure that the fuel consumption does down as car roll's 80km/h with less of throttle than it used to do. Great gadget! From this short test run there was already request for a couple of more of these units! Only question remains, how sensitive this unit is for warter?? will it be complitelly distoyed if submerged while engine running?? What about cars without cabin installed like mine sometimes? Is there going to be corosion damages? I wonder why this is not made fully water proof in the first place? while running the moisture will dry out, distributor is quite hot as installed in the engine block... -teppo PS: I drove one ambulance TGB13 to my friend on my way to Rovaniemi, I did ~730 kilometers in ~9h40 minutes, had to refuel twice but I did not have any additional stops. I was quite fun! :) "Volvo iron butt" From: Aryan Schmitz To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Volvo303] 123 ignition istalled Date sent: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:51:27 +0200 Send reply to: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >During past few days we installed 123 distributor to 2 Volvos. Difference is >unbeliveable! Torq and smoothness of the engine has to be experienced! > >I installed them with stock coil as we did not have anything else availabe at >the moment. I will replace my coil with 12v version and run it with 24 volts. I >need to go spare dealer and measure the coils to find the one with enough >resistance. > >By using a stock coil the installaion took like 40 minutes from two of us, >second one with shielted system took closer to 3 hours from just me as you need >to replace leads and spark plugs as well as need to do some tricks to get >shileded coil to operate with 123. How could we get 123 into radiocar igition >system (shielted)? > >All abnormal sounds from the engine was gone, now the engine sounds like the >in-line 6 should, for the very first time. Off-road the improvement is >exeptional, engine doesnt not have the habit to stall when driving at idle or >close to it. Need of shoke was minimum, even though we had few subzero degrees >in celsius, once the car was running you can turn choke off and leave the car >to warm up. > >You could easilly use gears 2 and 3 at off-road where earlier first gear was >just about the only option. > >On-road I would like to drive a bit more to see how it behaves but I'm 100% >sure that the fuel consumption does down as car roll's 80km/h with less of >throttle than it used to do. > >Great gadget! From this short test run there was already request for a couple >of more of these units! > >Only question remains, how sensitive this unit is for warter?? will it be >complitelly distoyed if submerged while engine running?? What about cars >without cabin installed like mine sometimes? Is there going to be corosion >damages? I wonder why this is not made fully water proof in the first place? >while running the moisture will dry out, distributor is quite hot as installed >in the engine block... > >-teppo > >PS: I drove one ambulance TGB13 to my friend on my way to Rovaniemi, I did ~730 >kilometers in ~9h40 minutes, had to refuel twice but I did not have any >additional stops. I was quite fun! :) "Volvo iron butt" Hi Teppo, Nice report about the 123 experience you've had! I'm looking forward to here what it does for fuel consumption too. As for (un)waterproofness, I haven't tried it myself but I'm sure it will be destroyed if enough water enters the unit when the engine is running. The high voltage i the distributor close to the electronics will fry the electronics. To make it 100% waterproof is probably difficult. But to start with you'd need to put in a M5 screw in the hole in the bottom of the unit if you haven used that as an extra ground point already, which I recommend anyway. To seal the point where the wires enter the unit should be easy as well with some silicone sealant. But I think it is much more difficult to seal where the rotor-cap joins the distributor, maybe som sealing tape could help. One could make the electronic part of the 123 waterproof by taking out the axle and magneto disc out and seal the upper part around the print and adding a axle seal so no water can enter from above. Once the engine and the 123 is warm and you submerge it in cold water it will create under pressure which would make any leak suck water into the unit. If you put air pressure on the the distributor & cap you might be able to keep the water out, another trick I've heard about is to put a plastic bottle around the unit as a diving clock. Corrosion of the unit is not an issue as it is nickel plated and does not corrode. /Aryan To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: rplars Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:08:26 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Discussion of B30F fuel-injection conversion Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com A year ago I bought a B30E that looks like it has spent an eternity in a barn. According to Linden engineering it is possible to fit the engine in a C303, but I will NOT use the D-jetronic injection due to the fact that the switches below the contact points in the distributor really make the D-jetronic unreliable when old (I have friend that has dealt with old opels 2.8l GS/E engines with the same injection). It's still in my sorry garage in the condition it was collected The old style D-jetronic fuel injection is really ancient, and the fuel economy is all but great. I have built myself a megasquirt V2.2 that will in time retire the old D-jetronic box. A 123ignition will solve the ignition. Those are my plans apart from the eternal rust fixing problem (No alu-zinc body in sight) and the strange electrical ghosts in the headlight and direction relay (probably earth connection somewhere). I plan to post pictures on http://c303.plars.org as I have done with the boat http://ockelbo.plars.org since I did not find any pictures of the different engines and installations I made sure I did. As soon as I have to do do any jobs on the C303, the camera will be alongside. Guess I will stick my neck out here! The photo section is great but why haven't anyone done a step-by-step instruction on how to replace aleaking boot for example? I gather that most of you have access to the military instruction manuals but it's really not the same to get full colour photos and comment's of the problems involved. Some of you have done conversions, for example to discbreaks, why not share how this whas achieved? I'm in this group to learn rather than learning from my own sorry and costly mistakes (lession learned from boat and car alterations where it cost me quite a lot to finds out for myself) Can anyone tell the group how much work it is to convert 24V to 12V since there are few accessories for 24V, other than lorry waterheaters and video equipment for longrange buses? Since you are already on this list why not share the information you have? Regards, Rickard To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Aryan Schmitz Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:46:14 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Discussion of B30F fuel-injection conversion Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com >A year ago I bought a B30E that looks like it has spent an eternity in >a barn. According to Linden engineering it is possible to fit the >engine in a C303, but I will NOT use the D-jetronic injection due to >the fact that the switches below the contact points in the distributor >really make the D-jetronic unreliable when old (I have friend that has >dealt with old opels 2.8l GS/E engines with the same injection). It's >still in my sorry garage in the condition it was collected The 123ignition distributor solves this, it has a special injection=20 output for the B30E D-jetronic injection (the white and yellow=20 contacts) and thus also replaces the old mechanical injection contact=20 breaker in the old B30E distributor, these are very hard to get=20 nowadays. See the manual http://www.123ignition.se/pdf/123B30.pdf >The old style D-jetronic fuel injection is really ancient, and the >fuel economy is all but great. I have built myself a megasquirt V2.2 >that will in time retire the old D-jetronic box. A 123ignition will >solve the ignition. Another injection solution for the B30 engine in the future might be=20 the throttle body injection that 123ignition is developing. It will=20 be, just like the electronic distributor a sofisticated self=20 containing unit where the electronics and mechanical stuff is built=20 into the throttle one piece billet throttle body. Of coarse you'd=20 have to put in a injection fuelpump, a fuelfilter and pressure=20 regulator as well. The TBI will work in open loop as well as in=20 closed loop if a lambda sensor is available. After years of development the first prototype -in a Citroen 2cv- is=20 running around now and -not suprisingly- it is much more powerfull as=20 with the stock carburettor, no exact fuel consumption has been=20 measured yet but it seems more fuel efficient as well. The unit has a=20 built in USB interface to be able to alter the injection mapping and=20 lots of other parameters, so it will be very easy to cusomise the=20 settings or switch to another fuel (E85), we even consider an option=20 to electronicly control LPG injection with it. We are also working on=20 software for the USB interface so that you will have an electronic=20 dashboard where you can see on analoge gauges en lights what the=20 engine management system is doing, a tachometer, temperature, and=20 vacuum gauges, lambda value etc while the engine is running. /Aryan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Aryan Schmitz Korridor AB aryan.schmitz@korridor.se http://www.korridor.se Tel +46 8 720 41 50 info@korridor.se Fax +46 8 720 41 60 Asp=F6v=E4gen 27 GSM +46 70 749 66 84 125 40 Stockholm SMS mailto:0707496684@sms.tele2.se Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------ To: sgrig@juno.com, Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Willem-Jan Markerink Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:30:16 +0100 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Mikuni carburetor replacement Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 8 Jun 2004 at 16:30, sgrig@juno.com wrote: > Hello everybody, > I spoke with Chris at PRI (www.prirace.com) regarding the kit to > replace the Zenith-Stromberg carburetors. He may have a kit made for > C303 (one C303 owner intends to have the car at his shop, and he can > adapt the actual kit). It would be great to have a bolt on kit, with > nothing to adjust. Sorin. While browsing my folder for something else, I noticed this message, neither replied back then nor followed-up later.... Sorin, any news on this? (and are Mikuni carburators easier to adjust/overhaul/maintain/service in general?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "sgrig@juno.com" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:01:21 GMT To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Mikuni carburetor replacement Hello, I spoke with the owner of the shop a while ago, and he said it would have a C303 in his shop to build and install a kit. I didn't any other messages from him... Too bad, i got some Mikuni carburetors for this purpose. An intake manifold needs to be fabricated together with the controls. I don't have a shop so I can't do it on my own. It was an interesting idea, and is functional on MGs. Sorin PS Bosch has an injector that is used to replace a carburetor. Nothing to be changed on the engine, just electronics and a sealed tank. but it need an adapter to intake manifold. http://www.c303.de/c303-forum/index.php?board=33;action=display;threadid=10085;start=msg76133#msg76133 Chris C304 TGB1314C, PKW-H "Claas-Gunnar" Re:Vergaser überholen, umrüsten und syncronisieren « am: Heute um 21:24:36 » Antwort mit Zitat nach oben sooo. heute habe ich vergaser eingestellt und bin ne probefahrt gefahren. zum vergaser einstellen mit einem luftmengenmesser sollte der anbau-luftansaugkasten raus. sonst sind die schläuche im weg beim messen. ausserdem ist das beim tgb1314 sowieso alleine mit dem ablesen eine katastrophe. ich musste einen kleinen spiegel zur hand nehmen, um im leerlauf die luftmenge nachzuschauen. zuerst habe ich noch das gestänge vom gaspedal gleichmäßig eingestellt. das gestänge wird durch eine 8mm kontermutter auf dem gestänge gehalten. das gestänge vom vergaser, die mutter rausdrehen und dann das gestänge solange drehen bis beide gleichlang sind. leider muss man zwischendrin immer wieder montieren, weils sonst nicht genau wird. die winkel zu dem gestänge müssen wirklich fest und sauber am vergaser aufliegen, sonst ist die mühe für die katz. ich habe mit je einer unterlegscheibe nachgeholfen. wenn alles bombenfest sitzt und nicht mehr wackelt, kann man schauen, ob beide vergaser gleichzeitig anziehen. hierzu mit dem gaspedal ganz leicht tippen, bis das gestänge das spiel ausgeglichen hat. nachdem bei mir die vergaser von der drosselklappenschraube her syncron waren, hab ich noch ne proberunde auf der landstraße gedreht, und siehe da, das irre brummen und rütteln bei tacho 90-100 ist weg. es waren also nicht die kardanwellen sondern die vergaser... und jetzt klingt er auch so schön fett die anderen. grüsse, chris Es gibt keine Evolutionstheorie, sondern nur eine Liste von Kreaturen denen Chuck Norris erlaubt zu leben.