To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Cc: Offroadlist From: Willem-Jan Markerink Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 22:15:37 +0200 Subject: [Volvo303] Stainless Steel flexible brake lines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com While we are on the topic of brakes: Are the flexible brake lines on the Volvo compatible with some other brand, in the context of correct fittings/screw-thread? Background: I have a 'two-stage' pedal/brake interaction, as if there is air in the lines (first push only half the brake performance, second push full performance, lasting a dozen seconds), yet dozens of hours research by Volvo experts, testing/exchanging nearly every crucial part/component (new slave cylinders, replaced master, booster- surgery/inspection), haven't solved the problem....including exotic methods as bleeding at the slave cylinders (military tip #1) and reverse bleeding (military tip #2). And 5 consulted military-workshop experts said that they too have faced C3-series with this exact problem, and that they too couldn't solve it....it just happened sometimes after service #XY, and even rebuilding the entire system didn't do it. (Volvo itself apparently rebuild the entire system in glass once, just to analyse whether they could *see* a section/spot that trapped air-bubbles) Last remaining alternatives: - inserting a few more bleed-nipples at strategic points. - replacing all the rubber flexible lines with stainless steel, if only to improve the first stage to a more acceptable level (I can't imagine the original rubber lines being the cause of this two-stage problem, as that would imply that there is a weak spot in the rubber, bulging out at the first push, only contracting after a dozen seconds) Btw, two bleeding methods I came up with, but were not embraced by any of the shops, is 1) high-pressure/pedal bleeding with engine running (boosters active), and 2) using a more viscous fluid, in a different color (learned that color-thing from someone who bled his brakes with milk, so that he could see when the old brake fluid was out. Any thoughts about any of these points? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: From: "Jon Whitt" Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 08:19:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Stainless Steel flexible brake lines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Willem-Jan Markerink=20 To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com=20 Cc: Offroadlist=20 Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: [Volvo303] Stainless Steel flexible brake lines While we are on the topic of brakes: Are the flexible brake lines on the Volvo compatible with some other=20 brand, in the context of correct fittings/screw-thread? Background: I have a 'two-stage' pedal/brake interaction, as if there=20 is air in the lines (first push only half the brake performance,=20 second push full performance, lasting a dozen seconds), yet dozens of=20 hours research by Volvo experts, testing/exchanging nearly every=20 crucial part/component (new slave cylinders, replaced master, booster- surgery/inspection), haven't solved the problem....including exotic=20 methods as bleeding at the slave cylinders (military tip #1) and=20 reverse bleeding (military tip #2). And 5 consulted military-workshop experts said that they too have=20 faced C3-series with this exact problem, and that they too couldn't=20 solve it....it just happened sometimes after service #XY, and even=20 rebuilding the entire system didn't do it. (Volvo itself apparently rebuild the entire system in glass once,=20 just to analyse whether they could *see* a section/spot that trapped=20 air-bubbles) Last remaining alternatives: - inserting a few more bleed-nipples at strategic points. - replacing all the rubber flexible lines with stainless steel, if=20 only to improve the first stage to a more acceptable level (I can't imagine the original rubber lines being the cause of this=20 two-stage problem, as that would imply that there is a weak spot in=20 the rubber, bulging out at the first push, only contracting after a=20 dozen seconds)=20 Btw, two bleeding methods I came up with, but were not embraced by=20 any of the shops, is 1) high-pressure/pedal bleeding with engine=20 running (boosters active), and 2) using a more viscous fluid, in a=20 different color (learned that color-thing from someone who bled his=20 brakes with milk, so that he could see when the old brake fluid was=20 out. Any thoughts about any of these points? I had some made up. They are SAE thread just take the rubber ones to someone who makes lines and they can make them in rubber or shielded braided line. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Teppo Rapo Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:11:50 +0300 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Stainless Steel flexible brake lines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Jon Whitt kirjoitti: > I had some made up. They are SAE thread just take the rubber ones to > someone who makes lines and they can make them in rubber or shielded > braided line. I made one's my self, It might be illegal but I do not car that much about it as I know they are 300% better that original. They a... hwts the right word in english... Any way you can mae then wihtout any special tools. Other advantage is that you can keep 10ft loop of the brake line and these small rings nad you can produce new brake line in the forrest. These are sstainles steel lining wiht silicone line in it. I have one installed on my TGB11 and this one goes to my TGB. Same to fits to hub-axle joint as well as frame-axle but the lenght is slightly different. Also the felame joint in the axle is a bit different but it fit's ok still. Everythin started when snow chains cut my lines back in december. I wanted to create tuffest possible brake line and ne that can be fixed on the run, at wilderness. Here is the picture about one of them, ready made: http://www.scout.1g.fi/kuvat/volvo/brakeline.jpg/full Then the gift that I got from my friend, she said that it reminded about me when she walked pass it in the moll.. :) I call it "Professor" and will fit it into Volvo! :) http://www.scout.1g.fi/kuvat/volvo/Proffa.jpg/full -teppo To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:45:20 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Stainless Steel flexible brake lines Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On 4 Jun 2007 at 9:11, Teppo Rapo wrote: > I made one's my self, It might be illegal but I do not car that much > about it as I know they are 300% better that original. They a... hwts > the right word in english... Any way you can mae then wihtout any > special tools. Does that imply it uses a screw-squeeze type of connector? I also recently read that unlike factory/rubber flex lines, the stainless-steel version is prone to cracking at the connector- bend....but maybe that is related to the type of fitting, press-fit (clamp-tool) vs screw-fit, as I recall that the press-fit version often has a longer rigid tube than the one in your picture. > Other advantage is that you can keep 10ft loop of the > brake line and these small rings nad you can produce new brake line in > the forrest. These are sstainles steel lining wiht silicone line in it. > I have one installed on my TGB11 and this one goes to my TGB. Same to > fits to hub-axle joint as well as frame-axle but the lenght is slightly > different. Also the felame joint in the axle is a bit different but it > fit's ok still. Everythin started when snow chains cut my lines back in > december. I wanted to create tuffest possible brake line and ne that can > be fixed on the run, at wilderness. Ah yes, must be a screw-fit then....any particular brand/system? I have also wanted to create one as a replacement for the last rigid part of a front Land Cruiser system, allowing the complete brake-unit to be swung to the side more easily & without damage, when doing service to the CV-joints....otherwise you always face the dilemma of either bending the rigid tube, vs opening the system (and having to bleed afterwards). And bending the tube only works X times before it starts cracking & leaking....and X can be very small, depending on the previous mechanics who worked on it....8-(( > Here is the picture about one of > them, ready made: http://www.scout.1g.fi/kuvat/volvo/brakeline.jpg/full > > Then the gift that I got from my friend, she said that it reminded about > me when she walked pass it in the moll.. :) I call it "Professor" and > will fit it into Volvo! :) > http://www.scout.1g.fi/kuvat/volvo/Proffa.jpg/full Must reproduce that one in larger form, and cling it to the outside of the cabin....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "ian1674" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:51:00 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Brake bleeding help! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com --- In Volvo303@yahoogroups.com, David Giller wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Alan H. wrote: > > I didn't bleed anywhere but at the wheels. I made the assumption > > (maybe not a good one?) that if the extra bleeders weren't there, then > > they must not be necessary. ... > > > After letting it set a day or two, the > > brake warning light came on again, so we went through the bleeding > > exercise again and got a few more bubbles out. I don't remember > > anything really major though. The brakes seem to be firm and I made > > it to NW Mogfest and back after doing it so as far as I can tell all > > is well. > > I made that assumption the first time. I did get quite a bit of air > out of the system at first, but it seems to have stalled. I'm just > betting (and hoping) that my servos are full of air that's not > bleeding because it keeps seeping to the top and the limited volume I > can pump through with the MC is just not cutting it. > > > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 8:48 PM, volvotgb1314 wrote: > > did you prime the master cylinder before re-fitting? > > > > peter henry > > No, I didn't prime it, and that has surely made my life harder. I > didn't see anything in the manual about priming it, and based on the > design, it should be self-priming (inlets at the top, no valleys in > the line to the reservoir). I did leave it for a couple hours with > the fluid lines attached to the reservoirs, hoping that would allow > the MC to fill. But it sure feels like there's a ton of air in there. > > I've been Googling around about the Lockheed boosters, and people > seem to complain that they are hard to bleed. Further, they are > quite a bit higher than the slave cylinders. I really wish my truck > had the servo bleeder fittings, but such is life. > > I'm having trouble getting it ordered with the manufacturer, but IPD, > a well-known Volvo (car) parts supplier, is based here in Portland > and they seem to sell them. > > Thanks for the input, gents. > > Cheers, > Dave > Hi everyone, been reading with interest about the lack of pedal pressure. Like everyone I have just changed the front axle gaiters and had to bleed the brakes. After much fluid I have a balanced set of brakes but low pedal pressure, enough braking to pass an MOT. A suggestion I am going to try (ex REME ) is to raise the front of the vehicle with the pedal pumped up hard and then held depressed. Leave overnight, hopefully causing air to pass to the resourvoirs. This was done on landrovers which gave similar problems, its easy if you have a recovery vehicle! Do you need to bleed the servo's? Can you do it by opening the connector to the bango nut on top of the servo, or is this not necessary. I discussed this problem with a Swedish colleague who advise that the brakes would improve. Cheers Ian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: Christian Brudevoll Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:59:08 +0200 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Brake bleeding help! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com When bleeding the brakes, it's important to remove the wire connected to the swich separating front and rear brakes. It's lokaded on the inside of the left frame under the engine, if I remember correct. Christian To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: "G.R.Baker" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:47:43 -0000 Subject: [Volvo303] Re: Brake bleeding help! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com Also make sure you adjust the shoes out to the drums to reduce pedal travel. To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com From: David Giller Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:58:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Volvo303] Re: Brake bleeding help! Reply-To: Volvo303@yahoogroups.com On Jun 18, 2007, at 4:51 AM, ian1674 wrote: > Hi everyone, been reading with interest about the lack of pedal > pressure. Like everyone I have just changed the front axle gaiters > and had to bleed the brakes. > After much fluid I have a balanced set of brakes but low pedal > pressure, enough braking to pass an MOT. > A suggestion I am going to try (ex REME ) is to raise the front of > the vehicle with the pedal pumped up hard and then held depressed. > Leave overnight, hopefully causing air to pass to the resourvoirs. > This was done on landrovers which gave similar problems, its easy if > you have a recovery vehicle! > > Do you need to bleed the servo's? Can you do it by opening the > connector to the bango nut on top of the servo, or is this not > necessary. > > I discussed this problem with a Swedish colleague who advise that the > brakes would improve. > > Cheers Ian Hi Ian, I found that until I used a power bleeder as described in the service manual, I was unable to get all of the air bubbles out of the brake lines. After using a power bleeder, my brakes are excellent. I can stand with my weight on the pedal and it will only go halfway to the floor. Before using the power bleeder, strong pedal pressure could exhaust the pedal travel, a very scary sensation. The unit I used was a Motive Products Power Bleeder, which cost me $50USD. I was able to find it at a local a local auto parts store. Regarding bleeding the servos: The shop manual refers to a bleeding nipple on top of the servos. My best guess is that that the bleeding nipple would be where the banjo nut is. My servos do not have a bleeding nipple on the servos. I strongly suspect that is where the bleeding difficulty lies. I suspect you could bleed by cracking the banjo nut like a bleeding nipple, but it would make an ungodly mess. In my case, flushing out all of the old cloudy fluid was a side benefit, so I recommend that you purchase a power bleeder and bleed the whole system that way. Once you get the idea, it doesn't take long. Good luck, Dave From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: erik@terrangbil.net Subject: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:29:21 +0200 Hello Erik, Not quite sure yet whether this would solve my persistent brake problem (requires 2x push for full power, even Claes Blomquist from Tatanka couldn't fix it, the 5 military workshops he contacted also said 'shit happens, we had some bad samples too that we couldn't fix'). (yet the more experts I talk to, the more I become convinced that the problem is caused by air/bleeding....since that would not result in a firm pedal after the second push, but still be 'mushy') http://www.terrangbil.net/artikel.asp?id=220 xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD Problem med att bromspedalen tar långt ner? Kanske får "pumpa" för att få bromsverkan? Det här är EN variant på hur man löser problemet! Av: Erik Törnqvist | 1/12/2008 5:54:26 PM | Artikeln är läst: 633 gånger Sam här på forumet hade bekymmer med sin bil. Det hjälpte inte hur vi bar oss åt med justering, det dröjde ett par bromsningar så tog pedalen nästan i botten i alla fall. Så till sist tyckte han "att nu gör vi så här" och så ställde han ut backarna så det tog ordentligt trots att inte pedalen var nertryckt. Så satte han sig i och körde axlarna fritt i luften med bilen på bockarna på ettan låg, gasade och bromsade samtidigt så det skorrade i grejorna. Så justerade vi så de låg an ordentligt igen åsså ettan låg med samtidig broms och gas igen. Efter tredje omgången hade backarna skramlat i läge, så pedalen tar VÄLDIGT tidigt utan att backarna ligger an. Men det förutsätter så klart att systemet är tätt först. Jag har lyckats hona bort otätheter i cylindrar trots att cylindrarna har sett ganska tärda ut, men man ska nog ha tur. Om bromsvätska försvinner oförklarligt måste det vara otätt längs nån ledning på vägen till hjulen, eller i servoklockorna. En tredje fel-orsak kan vara avbruten "pinne" på bromsbacken. Halvmånen som man vrider runt med hjälp av justerskruven, påverkar en pinne på bromsbacken. I vissa fall har upptäckts att sådan pinne lossnat. Därmed finns inget justerat inre läge på bromsbacken och man får pumpa föratt få ut backen mot trumman. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: erik@terrangbil.net To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: Re: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? Date sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:34:29 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: erik@terrangbil.net Sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:29:24 +0200 Subject: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? > Hello Erik, > > Not quite sure yet whether this would solve my persistent brake > problem (requires 2x push for full power, even Claes Blomquist from > Tatanka couldn't fix it, the 5 military workshops he contacted also > said 'shit happens, we had some bad samples too that we couldn't > fix'). > (yet the more experts I talk to, the more I become convinced that the > problem is not caused by air/bleeding....since that would not result > in a firm pedal after the second push, but still be 'mushy') > > > http://www.terrangbil.net/artikel.asp?id=220 > xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD > > Problem med att bromspedalen tar långt ner? Kanske får "pumpa" för > att få bromsverkan? Det här är EN variant på hur man löser problemet! > > Av: Erik Törnqvist | 1/12/2008 5:54:26 PM | Artikeln är läst: 633 > gånger > > Sam här på forumet hade bekymmer med sin bil. Det hjälpte inte hur vi > bar oss åt med justering, det dröjde ett par bromsningar så tog > pedalen nästan i botten i alla fall. Så till sist tyckte han "att nu > gör vi så här" och så ställde han ut backarna så det tog ordentligt > trots att inte pedalen var nertryckt. Så satte han sig i och körde > axlarna fritt i luften med bilen på bockarna på ettan låg, gasade och > bromsade samtidigt så det skorrade i grejorna. Så justerade vi så de > låg an ordentligt igen åsså ettan låg med samtidig broms och gas > igen. Efter tredje omgången hade backarna skramlat i läge, så pedalen > tar VÄLDIGT tidigt utan att backarna ligger an. > > Men det förutsätter så klart att systemet är tätt först. Jag har > lyckats hona bort otätheter i cylindrar trots att cylindrarna har > sett ganska tärda ut, men man ska nog ha tur. Om bromsvätska > försvinner oförklarligt måste det vara otätt längs nån ledning på > vägen till hjulen, eller i servoklockorna. > > En tredje fel-orsak kan vara avbruten "pinne" på bromsbacken. > Halvmånen som man vrider runt med hjälp av justerskruven, påverkar en > pinne på bromsbacken. I vissa fall har upptäckts att sådan pinne > lossnat. Därmed finns inget justerat inre läge på bromsbacken och man > får pumpa föratt få ut backen mot trumman. > -- > Bye, > > Willem-Jan Markerink > > The desire to understand > is sometimes far less intelligent than > the inability to understand > > > [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Hi Willem! It takes some time of course and I dont have it right now. Anyway, we do a faster one... :-) 1. Have you checked that all the shoes have their riding pin left? And that the pins are hitting the half moon piece of return limitation? 2. Have you bleeded the main cylinder separately before going on to the rest of the system? I mean unscrew the tubes from the cylinder, plug the connections with fingers, pull down the pedal to fluid out passing the fingers, closing thoroughly with the fingers before letting the pedal up and doing this several times? There will be brake fluid on the floor yeah... :-) 3. Sams method is then after complete air bleeding to adjust the shoes to hear them scratch to the drum while turning them by hand. Then starting the engine and running the transmission on first low gear, all differetials locked, 6wd, while hard breaking for some five seconds. Demands truck on supports and no wheels. Check all the wheels again, screw the shoes rest position to scratch the drums again. Repeat running, breaking and adjusting until you have a stiff responding pedal. The three trucks I did this to has taken me som three rounds to succeed. Let me know the result. I really hope you succeed, because this is the way I finally got rid of my bad breakes. I was really surprised when I did it on the bed truck you have seen pictures of the last two years. I was satisfied with the breakes on it when I first bleeded and adjusted them when I bought it, but 6000 km later they were absolutely nasty. Thought it was time to change shoes and everything. Nono. Bleeding all around and running the Sams Method resulted in stiff pedal and straight wheel line when breaking! Best wishes, Erik From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: erik@terrangbil.net Subject: Re: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:57:42 +0200 On 13 Aug 2008 at 10:34, erik@terrangbil.net wrote: > Hi Willem! > It takes some time of course and I dont have it right now. Anyway, we > do a faster one... :-) > > 1. Have you checked that all the shoes have their riding pin left? > And that the pins are hitting the half moon piece of return > limitation? > > 2. Have you bleeded the main cylinder separately before going on to > the rest of the system? I mean unscrew the tubes from the cylinder, > plug the connections with fingers, pull down the pedal to fluid out > passing the fingers, closing thoroughly with the fingers before > letting the pedal up and doing this several times? There will be > brake fluid on the floor yeah... :-) > > 3. Sams method is then after complete air bleeding to adjust the > shoes to hear them scratch to the drum while turning them by hand. > Then starting the engine and running the transmission on first low > gear, all differetials locked, 6wd,while hard breaking for some five > seconds. Demands truck on supports and no wheels. Check all the > wheels again, screw the shoes rest position to scratch the drums > again. Repeat running, breaking and adjusting until you have a stiff > responding pedal. The three trucks I did this to has taken me som > three rounds to succeed. > > Let me know the result. I really hope you succeed, because this is > the way I finally got rid of my bad breakes. I was really surprised > when I did it on the bed truck you have seen pictures of the last two > years. I was satisfied with the breakes on it when I first bleeded > and adjusted them when I bought it, but 6000 km later they were > absolutely nasty. Please specify 'nasty'....:)) I think this was mentioned in the Swedish text as well, the typical symptoms, when not using this method. > Thought it was time to change shoes and everything. > Nono. Bleeding all around and running the Sams Method resulted in > stiff pedal and straight wheel line when breaking! > > Best wishes, > Erik Thanx! I already heard about the 'rolling wheel/vehicle-on-hoist' trick from my Dutch friend Roel Rijkmans in Meppel; although I thought you shouldn't lock the diff locks (still engage front wheel drive of course), so that you can also adjust the shoes perfectly (otherwise you can't spot the difference between left and right). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: erik@terrangbil.net To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: Re: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? Date sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:05:02 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: erik@terrangbil.net Sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:57:44 +0200 On 13 Aug 2008 at 10:34, erik@terrangbil.net wrote: >> Let me know the result. I really hope you succeed, because this is >> the way I finally got rid of my bad breakes. I was really surprised >> when I did it on the bed truck you have seen pictures of the last two >> years. I was satisfied with the breakes on it when I first bleeded >> and adjusted them when I bought it, but 6000 km later they were >> absolutely nasty. > > Please specify 'nasty'....:)) > I think this was mentioned in the Swedish text as well, the typical > symptoms, when not using this method. I checked now and "nasty" had more translation meanings, some of them a bit off the topic, so to speak... :-) "Troublesome" is maybe a better word. Using difflocks is a must when vibrating the shoes in place with the drum rotation, but when you mention it I see a point in disengage the locks and fine adjust a last time. Erik From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: erik@terrangbil.net Subject: Re: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:34:46 +0200 On 13 Aug 2008 at 13:05, erik@terrangbil.net wrote: > I checked now and "nasty" had more translation meanings, some of them > a bit off the topic, so to speak... :-) "Troublesome" is maybe a > better word. Nonono, it wasn't about improper language, I just wanted to hear the specific brake problems you had....:)) > Using difflocks is a must when vibrating the shoes in > place with the drum rotation, but when you mention it I see a point > in disengage the locks and fine adjusta last time. Btw, in the German forum someone recently mentioned that we *don't* have self-adjusting shoes....but I never heard anyone talk about 're- adjusting' them, over time.... -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: erik@terrangbil.net To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: Re: Bromsjustering enligt SAMs METOD: Translation into English? Date sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:48:42 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: erik@terrangbil.net Sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:34:48 +0200 On 13 Aug 2008 at 13:05, erik@terrangbil.net wrote: >> I checked now and "nasty" had more translation meanings, some of them >> a bit off the topic, so to speak... :-) "Troublesome" is maybe a >> better word. > > Nonono, it wasn't about improper language, I just wanted to hear the > specific brake problems you had....:)) > :-D OK, the brakes went from say ok to not so nice over say 3-4000km. The last 1000km of the 6000km I drove it before Sam´s Method, I had to press twice before proper engagement. They werent really weak or soft in the pedal, just too far away when they were needed. After Sam´s Metheod I had the pedal travel down to just centimeters before they started to engage. Maximum pedal travel cant have been more than 10 cm, I believe less, and there the pedal were almost like it hit the floor. Stiff. >> Using difflocks is a must when vibrating the shoes in >> place with the drum rotation, but when you mention it I see a point >> in disengage the locks and fine adjusta last time. > > Btw, in the German forum someone recently mentioned that we *don't* > have self-adjusting shoes....but I never heard anyone talk about 're- > adjusting' them, over time.... Thats right. The only way Volvo C3 brakes are self adjusting is that the owner has to adjust them himself :-) http://www.c303.de/c303-forum/index.php?board=38;action=display;threadid=8434;start=msg56052#msg56052 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx der Harms Re:Bremsen ungleichmaessig « Antwort #16 am: Heute um 02:09:20 » Antwort mit Zitat Die Hauptproblematik liegt bei unseren Kleinen im Lüften... haben hier auch tausend und ein Ve rsuch und wollten das ganze nicht mehr glauben! Haltet Euch an die Reihenfolge aus dem Manual. Von vorn nach hinten arbeiten, und am Bremskraftverstärker anfangen ( Servo ) . der Hat keinen Lüftungsnippel man muß, wie dort auch beschrieben, die Kopfmutter auf dem Zylinder eine 1/4-Umdrehung lösen. Ist ein elendes Gesabber!, Hab da ´ne alte Duschwanne zum Auffangen unter den Wagen gelegt...hmm ?! Lüften nur mit dem Bremspedal hatte bei uns auch nur bei einem Fahrzeug geklappt, besser: oben an die Ausgleichsbehälter einen Füllautomaten und dann schön langsam und gleichmäßig mit dem Bremspedal pumpen. Der Erfolg ist enorm... gehst durch die Scheibe der Harms xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.c303.de/c303-forum/index.php?board=38;action=display;threadid=9052 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.stahlbus.de/cms_content.php?cID=1003 http://forum.buschtaxi.org/bremspedal-fallt-langsam-durch-wer-kann-helfen-t26574.html#p401810 xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Re: Bremspedal fällt langsam durch - wer kann helfen? Ungelesener Beitragvon hakim » Mo Dez 27, 2010 08:18 Hi Robson, ich habe zwar keine spezifische Erfahrung mit dem J8, aber doch folgende Hinweise zu Deinem Problem. 1. Auch 3-maliges Entlüften von Bremsanlagen mittels Vakuumgerät reicht meiner Erfahrung nach nicht immer. Hartnäckige Luftblasen hatte ich im ABS-Steuerblock. Entlüften entweder mittels der an manchen ABS dafür angebrachten Entlüftungsnippel oder durch vorsichtiges Lösen der Ableitungen am ABS-Steuerblock. Während des Entlüftens mit einem Plastikhammer leicht ans Gehäuse klopfen hilft zusätzlich. Luftblasen gibts aber auch gerne im Bereich des Bremssattels, je nach dessen Einbaulage. Vollständiges Zurückdrücken der Radbremskolben vorausgesetzt, können sich allemal Luftblasen im Sattel, im Bereich oberhalb des oberen Kolbens halten. Da hilft nur: Bremssattel abschrauben und während des Entlüftens den Sattel in der Hand etwas drehen. 2. Ist alles korrekt entlüftet, kommt natürlich wie von den Kollegen hier bereits gesagt eine Beschädigung der Sekundärmanschette im Hauptbremszylinder infrage. Darüber hinaus sehe ich noch folgende Stellen für eine Undichtigkeit: a)die Verschraubungen der neuen Leitungen. b)die innenliegenden, im Querschnitt rechteckigen Dichtringe der Radbremskolben . Häufige Ursache hier ist - analog zum HBZ - daß sich hinter beschädigten oder schlecht sitzenden Gummimanschetten gerne Dreck ansammelt. Werden jetzt bei Montagearbeiten die Bremskolben ganz zurückgedrückt, werden die Gummiringe, die den Kolben zur Bohrung im Sattel hin abdichten, undicht. Manchmal reicht dafür auch schon ein Verkanten des Kolbens beim Zurückdrücken (mittels Reifenheber? :shock: ). Hier jetzt austretende Bremsflüssigkeit sammelt sich erstmal in der Manschette, man sieht nicht unbedingt gleich außen herablaufende Flüssigkeit. Deine neuen Sättel waren vermutlich komplett bestückt mit neuen Kolben, schau mal an den anderen Rädern mit den alten Sätteln nach. Hakim hakim