To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-order Copies to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:33:15 +0100 Dear group(s), Anyone interested in a custom-made wide-angle mirror, to be placed on top of the factory mirror? 3/4 of this mirror offers normal enlarged vision, outside 1/4 shows a much wider angle (distinguished by a thin black etched line in the glass). I had a set of these on my HJ-60, but crashed one recently (may the bastard of that other van have 10 times more damage than I!....;((, so I had to dig out my archive to check where I ordered them 10 years ago. Back then they were a stock item (not Toyota of course, but from glass/optics company), but sadly they have become a custom-order type since then. While I am at it, I also want to order one or more sets for a HDJ-80 (stock angle of view is a bit larger than a 60 (the earlier 60's with metal mirrors are of course much worse), but not much IMHO....these dedicated wide-angle mirrors are really top-notch....also with a slight blue coating to dampen reflection at night. Price will be US$50 each; if there are enough people for a larger order, I might be able to include shipping, definately when ordered as a set of two (although they look as if they can simple be flipped upside-down/left-right for the other side, most still have a different stock number for left vs right). As someone deeply involved in the technical side of optics/photograhy, I can honestly state these are quality optics....they lasted almost 10 year on my 60, without any degradation (apart from my silly move to reglue the mirror with construction-type silicone-rubber....that stuff is acid, and metal doesn't like acid, and guess what, the reflective layer is metal....8-)) (in that context, I was glad I crashed that side-mirror, and not the other one....:))....and even more glad that I could still order these mirrors (production shifted significantly from aftermarket to OEM, even though most OEM mirrors have a much milder wide-angle effect, definately not as effective). If anyone is interested, please email me privately, not to the list. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "Rob Kuder" To: Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-order Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 05:32:58 -0500 Put me down for a pair, pending answers to questions below. I have been using stick on 135mm convex mirrors for two years and I wouldn't be with out them, although I have always be dissatisfied with the configuration. They take up either the top or bottom half and you can't angle the mirror to use the flat half. Do I understand correctly that this new mirror has the outboard quarter magnified with a vertical seam to the inboard flat three quarter? Does the convex portion 'optically' overlap the flat portion, or does it only view things outboard of the flat's 'perspective'? Will these closely match the perimeter of the existing mirror? ( big rectangular chrome things on the HJ are 200mm high x 135mm wide and slightly 5 sided ) HJ60T Rob Kuder Ottawa, CANADA From: Self To: "Rob Kuder" Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:05:32 +0100 On 30 Dec 01 at 5:32, Rob Kuder wrote: > Put me down for a pair, pending answers to questions below. > > I have been using stick on 135mm convex mirrors for two years and I wouldn't > be with out them, although I have always be dissatisfied with the > configuration. They take up either the top or bottom half and you can't angle > the mirror to use the flat half. > > Do I understand correctly that this new mirror has the outboard quarter > magnified with a vertical seam to the inboard flat three quarter? Does the > convex portion 'optically' overlap the flat portion, or does it only view > things outboard of the flat's 'perspective'? See .jpg samples (for other vehicles, but optics are identical)....it's really the non-plus-ultra in aftermarket wide angle mirrors (it better be, for that price....;)). > Will these closely match the perimeter of the existing mirror? > ( big rectangular chrome things on the HJ are 200mm high x 135mm wide and > slightly 5 sided ) It will fill the original housing perfectly; it actually looks quite slick, since with the new mirror on top, the glass is almost flush with the housing. Attachments: d:\winsock\netscap2\widemir1.jpg d:\winsock\netscap2\widemir2.jpg d:\winsock\netscap2\widemir3.jpg From: "Rob Kuder" To: Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 07:47:17 -0500 Looks good. I'll take a pair. So, the 3/4 portion is magnified a little and the 1/4 portion is magnified a lot. Do you have the magnification numbers? Just trying to compare with what I have now. Looking at the pics I would guess something like +20% and +100% increase in field of view. Rob. From: Self To: "Rob Kuder" Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:39:26 +0100 On 30 Dec 01 at 7:47, Rob Kuder wrote: > Looks good. I'll take a pair. > So, the 3/4 portion is magnified a little and the 1/4 portion is magnified a > lot. Do you have the magnification numbers? Just trying to compare with what > I have now. Looking at the pics I would guess something like +20% and +100% > increase in field of view. Hmm....it's definately more, although from an optical standpoint an absolute number in angle-(percentage) is difficult, since it depends on the distance between eye and mirror (and I think that's where a linear percentage 'gain' doesn't hold either). Some data I read claims it increases the angle 3-fold....other texts state 200%....I guess +200% and 3-fold is identical....:)) Given the physical relative flat nature of the mirror, this gain is rather amazing....lovely stuff, just downright dangerous if you get used to it, and start driving a different vehicle again....your entire blind spot has returned at full force....:)) PS: you wanted a set for a 60-series, late/Aussie style large mirrors, right? Because you stated 'chrome', and I thought only the earlier/smaller units were metal/chrome, the later/larger ones have a plastic housing. See attachment for visual assessment....:)) Attachments: c:\winsock\pegasus\aueurmir.jpg From: "Rob Kuder" To: Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:40:01 -0500 >PS: you wanted a set for a 60-series, late/Aussie style large >mirrors, right? Because you stated 'chrome', and I thought only the >earlier/smaller units were metal/chrome, the later/larger ones have a >plastic housing. >See attachment for visual assessment....:)) 'chrome' as in 'chromed plastic'. I guess this mirror type came in black also. My mirrors are stock Toyota 1987 Canadian HJ60. I don't have a good picture of my truck. One I found on the web is attached. Are you familar with it? My knowledge of cruiser types and years is, shall we say, limited...to my truck! Sorry for the confusion. Thanks, Rob. From: Self To: "Rob Kuder" Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 19:39:12 +0100 On 30 Dec 01 at 23:40, Rob Kuder wrote: > > >PS: you wanted a set for a 60-series, late/Aussie style large > >mirrors, right? Because you stated 'chrome', and I thought only the > >earlier/smaller units were metal/chrome, the later/larger ones have a > >plastic housing. > >See attachment for visual assessment....:)) > > > 'chrome' as in 'chromed plastic'. I guess this mirror type came in black > also. Aha, I better skip on the 'chrome' identification for the older style then....8-)) > My mirrors are stock Toyota 1987 Canadian HJ60. > I don't have a good picture of my truck. > One I found on the web is attached. > Are you familar with it? Sure, they *look* identical to the European 60's (I have a mid-1987 as well). But does the glass-side also look identical to the .jpg I sent you? (attached to this mail as well) You were the one describing it as slightly 5-sided, right? With slightly more corner/curve on the outside vertical, while the inside vertical is nearly straight (all talking about glass geometry only). If so, then they are equal everywhere. Will try to take an actual picture of the remaining one on my 60 (right side, left side crashed recently, against another vehicle....;)) > My knowledge of cruiser types and years is, shall we say, limited...to my > truck! What's interesting on the picture you sent me, is that the right-side headlight bezel (on the picture, left side of vehicle itself) shows the same slight 'off-angle/dis-alignment' as mine does, lined up with the ARB bumper (I have a TJM). I always thought mine might have hit something in its previous life (bought it second hand, TJM was new though), but now I start wondering about either an optical illusion, or a factory anomaly....8-)) > Sorry for the confusion. Nah, I just learnen about late-style chrome mirrors....:)) (although I knew they exist for 80- and 70-series as well) From: "Rob Kuder" To: Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:50:54 -0500 >Sure, they *look* identical to the European 60's (I have a mid-1987 >as well). >But does the glass-side also look identical to the .jpg I sent you? >(attached to this mail as well) >You were the one describing it as slightly 5-sided, right? >With slightly more corner/curve on the outside vertical, while the >inside vertical is nearly straight (all talking about glass geometry >only). No. The outboard edge of mine is quite straight. The inboard edge has a corner about 2/3 down. __________ / \ | \ | | | \ | | | \ ___ | / \ | / | | \___________/ | | I need a new computer to get my scanner working. If I do, I could send you a scan of the actual mirror. Rob. From: Self To: "Rob Kuder" Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 20:28:45 +0100 On 31 Dec 01 at 1:50, Rob Kuder wrote: > > > >Sure, they *look* identical to the European 60's (I have a mid-1987 > >as well). > >But does the glass-side also look identical to the .jpg I sent you? > >(attached to this mail as well) > >You were the one describing it as slightly 5-sided, right? > >With slightly more corner/curve on the outside vertical, while the > >inside vertical is nearly straight (all talking about glass geometry > >only). > > No. The outboard edge of mine is quite straight. > The inboard edge has a corner about 2/3 down. > > __________ > / \ > | \ > | | > | \ > | | > | \ ___ > | / \ > | / | | > \___________/ | | > > > > > I need a new computer to get my scanner working. > If I do, I could send you a scan of the actual mirror. Dang, looks as if there 3 styles of mirrors then....yours did look a tad more rectangular than mine, also with the depth of the housing a bit more squarish, less 'aero' curve than mine. But could you open the scan I sent you, and compare it directly? (you might have to open it as a file in your browser, I think it is progressive JPG, my normal viewer can't open it either, but even my old browser can) If they are really different, I might have to qualify it as another custom size, with it's own minimum order quantity....any idea on which years these mirrors were stock in Canada? Not *only* because they were chrome, right? Dark-grey units have the same shape in Canada? They might be identical to 70-series btw....ever compared them with that? Those *might* be a stock size, or at least have been (avoids the need for a new 'master'). From: "Rob Kuder" To: Subject: Re: Custom-made wide-angle side mirrors, possible group-ord Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 02:42:21 -0500 Scan was jpeg of Aus. mirrors (aumirror.jpg). Yes I looked at it. No, not the same. To my knowledge, in Canada, this mirror was specific to the HJ , '86 &'87 only. All other 60's where the BJ which had a much smaller mirror. It may be the same mirror as the FJ62, until '89 I think. And there are a lot of these in the states. Would a part number help? I will call others to check. Rob. Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 17:45:54 -0000 From: "fj6080" To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: mirrors Willem-Jan, I'm interested in a one(PS) or two for my fj60 with Aussie style mirrors. I'm a bit confused how they work, do they attach to existing mirror, above it? or does it replace the whole mirror? or is it new glass for the existing mirror? any pictures? I'm pretty happy with the mirrors on the my fj80 but the fj60 mirrors suck and they stock(US version) was just plain horrible! Thanks John Holmaas jholmaas@hotmail.com From: Self To: "fj6080" Subject: Re: mirrors Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:33:55 +0100 On 30 Dec 01 at 17:45, fj6080 wrote: > Willem-Jan, I'm interested in a one(PS) or two for my fj60 with > Aussie style mirrors. I'm a bit confused how they work, do they > attach to existing mirror, above it? or does it replace the whole > mirror? or is it new glass for the existing mirror? any pictures? I'm > pretty happy with the mirrors on the my fj80 but the fj60 mirrors > suck and they stock(US version) was just plain horrible! Ah, sorry, my 'on top' was still a bit ambivalent indeed: the new mirror fits inside the OEM mirror housing, in case of the 60 the combination is then almost flush on the edges, with the mirror itself having a slight bow (I have always been scared that *if* it got ever hit by another car, it might crash my window-glass, but alas, it proved it did not....:)) PS: with 'Aussie style' you probably mean the later, larger, upright/portrait-rectangular mirrors, with dark-grey plastic housing, in contrast to the earlier, smaller, metal/chrome, landscape-oriented housings, right? But why then only one unit, for the Passenger Side? Or do you already have a better mirror on the Drivers Side? My orientation is European btw, driver on the left....;)) (and I better specify then as only left or right, to avoid that confusion alltogether....:)) From: "John Holmaas" To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: Re: mirrors Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:59:00 -0800 > >On 30 Dec 01 at 17:45, fj6080 wrote: > > > Willem-Jan, I'm interested in a one(PS) or two for my fj60 with > > Aussie style mirrors. I'm a bit confused how they work, do they > > attach to existing mirror, above it? or does it replace the whole > > mirror? or is it new glass for the existing mirror? any pictures? I'm > > pretty happy with the mirrors on the my fj80 but the fj60 mirrors > > suck and they stock(US version) was just plain horrible! > >Ah, sorry, my 'on top' was still a bit ambivalent indeed: the new mirror >fits inside the OEM mirror housing, in case of the 60 the combination >is then almost flush on the edges, with the mirror itself having a >slight bow (I have always been scared that *if* it got ever hit by >another car, it might crash my window-glass, but alas, it proved it >did not....:)) Ah.......I understand now and that makes sense. > >PS: with 'Aussie style' you probably mean the later, larger, >upright/portrait-rectangular mirrors, with dark-grey plastic housing, in >contrast to the earlier, smaller, metal/chrome, landscape-oriented >housings, right? yes I think so, in the states they are sold by SOR as "Aussie Style" and I'm at work so I can't look at my Euro spec brochures to be sure what you have, but they look like the attached photo..... >But why then only one unit, for the Passenger Side? >Or do you already have a better mirror on the Drivers Side? >My orientation is European btw, driver on the left....;)) >(and I better specify then as only left or right, to avoid that >confusion alltogether....:)) Yes the right hand(passenger side) side mirror, well because thats my blind side ;-) But I would consider one for the left side as well, and what they heck.......maybe at least one for my 92 fj80(US spec) they were $50 for each mirror, not per pair, correct? Is there any info on the internet on these.......so I can take a look? Thanks John John Holmaas TLCA 5506 Gig Harbor WA USA (253)318-4066 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1404277 From: Self To: "John Holmaas" Subject: Re: mirrors Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:47:39 +0100 On 30 Dec 01 at 13:59, John Holmaas wrote: > >On 30 Dec 01 at 17:45, fj6080 wrote: > > > > > Willem-Jan, I'm interested in a one(PS) or two for my fj60 with > > > Aussie style mirrors. I'm a bit confused how they work, do they > > > attach to existing mirror, above it? or does it replace the whole > > > mirror? or is it new glass for the existing mirror? any pictures? I'm > > > pretty happy with the mirrors on the my fj80 but the fj60 mirrors suck and > > > they stock(US version) was just plain horrible! > > > >Ah, sorry, my 'on top' was still a bit ambivalent indeed: the new mirror fits > >inside the OEM mirror housing, in case of the 60 the combination is then > >almost flush on the edges, with the mirror itself having a slight bow (I have > >always been scared that *if* it got ever hit by another car, it might crash > >my window-glass, but alas, it proved it did not....:)) > > Ah.......I understand now and that makes sense. > > > >PS: with 'Aussie style' you probably mean the later, larger, > >upright/portrait-rectangular mirrors, with dark-grey plastic housing, in > >contrast to the earlier, smaller, metal/chrome, landscape-oriented housings, > >right? > > yes I think so, in the states they are sold by SOR as "Aussie Style" and I'm > at work so I can't look at my Euro spec brochures to be sure what you have, > but they look like the attached photo..... Yup, that's the one....flat as an ironboard....8-)) > >But why then only one unit, for the Passenger Side? > >Or do you already have a better mirror on the Drivers Side? > >My orientation is European btw, driver on the left....;)) > >(and I better specify then as only left or right, to avoid that > >confusion alltogether....:)) > > Yes the right hand(passenger side) side mirror, well because thats my blind > side ;-) The really good part of these things on the DS is that they almost eliminate your blind spot....no more over-the-shoulder-looking. (actually, I have been bugging this company to make a dual-angled version for the interior mirror....that would really eliminate any dead spot left....but if it has to be, I might even settle for two halves for this purpose, and join them). > But I would consider one for the left side as well, and what they > heck.......maybe at least one for my 92 fj80(US spec) > > they were $50 for each mirror, not per pair, correct? Yes. > Is there any info on the internet on these.......so I can take a look? See attached .jpg files (same optics, different vehicles). Attachments: d:\winsock\netscap2\widemir1.jpg d:\winsock\netscap2\widemir2.jpg d:\winsock\netscap2\widemir3.jpg From: "John Holmaas" To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: Re: mirrors Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 17:01:36 -0800 Got the pictures thank you. Well you can count me in on at least one pair, I guess for the fj80 as it's the rig I drive the most. So they just glue onto the existing glass/mirror? John From: Self To: "John Holmaas" Subject: Re: mirrors Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:57:09 +0100 On 30 Dec 01 at 17:01, John Holmaas wrote: > Got the pictures thank you. Well you can count me in on at least one pair, I > guess for the fj80 as it's the rig I drive the most. Okay, noted....:)) I think I can justify a minimum order for both 60 and 80, and might have a few sets left by looking at current interest, so if you like the 80-version, I might still have a set for your 60 for a next order. > So they just glue onto the existing glass/mirror? Yup, a foam-type adhesive has been added at the factory (you might want to strip those two white pieces of adhesive, and add the denser dark-grey type of automotive adhesive (Teroson, very strong stuff)....in excessive heat and vibrations the white type might not be enough (that's why I reglued my DS unit....the PS unit however shows no signs of fatique....perhaps I wore the DS down by too much looking....:)) From: Self To: "John Holmaas" Subject: More graphics Copies to: "Rob Kuder" Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:52:15 +0100 Hi John/Rob, Attached you find a drawing I found in older (Dutch) documentations. Here they claim a specific viewing angle of 16 degree vs 48 degree, hence indeed a gain of +200% or 3-fold. (IMHO, they take an average of 16 degree as given, since this absolute angle largely depends on the viewing distance....with your nose pressed on the mirror, the viewing angle is much larger, and the gain must be less (it can never be more than 180 degree....yet that would require a max initial angle of 60 degree, given the same 200% increase....;)) Attachments: c:\pstyler\widemir4.jpg Date sent: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:21:45 +0900 To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl From: Dave Stedman Subject: Re: 60-series mirrors (was: [DTLC] Custom-made wide-angle side mirro At 19:45 1/1/2002 +0100, you wrote: >In addition to this, a mirror-related question for list members, in >particular Canadians: >Since posting the above offer I learned that European 60-series >mirrors (at least 1987) are identical to what most people call >'Aussie style mirrors'. >However, I always thought this was the only alternative to the (in >Europe) early/small metal-housed mirrors....while it seems as if >Canadian 60's (at least 1987) have yet another type, more >rectangular, and what *might* be identical to 70-series Cruisers (again, >based on European 70-series, but both light- and heavy-duty I >believe). >Any mirror-specialists around? >What years & models were identical? US spec and Japanese spec side by side. Mounted on the same truck. Try your dealer with: 87940-90A04(LH) 87910-90A04(RH) Non-power are $74 US plus 5% tax. If you can't get them there let me know. Postage will not be cheap but if by ship not too bad. Willing to take some balance off the price if you pay for my Russian hat :-) Dave Stedman Dog runner over Kakogawa Japan N 34° 45' 45.2" E 134° 52'22.3" stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp stedman@canada.com From: Self To: Dave Stedman Subject: Re: 60-series mirrors (was: [DTLC] Custom-made wide-angle s Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:25:25 +0100 On 2 Jan 02 at 10:21, Dave Stedman wrote: > At 19:45 1/1/2002 +0100, you wrote: > >In addition to this, a mirror-related question for list members, in > >particular Canadians: > >Since posting the above offer I learned that European 60-series > >mirrors (at least 1987) are identical to what most people call > >'Aussie style mirrors'. > >However, I always thought this was the only alternative to the (in > >Europe) early/small metal-housed mirrors....while it seems as if > >Canadian 60's (at least 1987) have yet another type, more > >rectangular, and what *might* be identical to 70-series Cruisers (again, > >based on European 70-series, but both light- and heavy-duty I believe). Any > >mirror-specialists around? What years & models were identical? > > US spec and Japanese spec side by side. Mounted on the same truck. See my attachment for Aussie/Euro-style....8-)) (or were you aware of those already?) > Try your dealer with: > 87940-90A04(LH) > 87910-90A04(RH) Those are the large rectangulars? a) if not equal to 70-series, my dealer probably can't get it through the Toyota system (but I probably can get them at a non-dealer). b) the first one I saw of these were chrome(color plastic), so there must be at least one more set of part numbers, possibly more for each additional color. > Non-power are $74 US plus 5% tax. Did they come in a power version too? The Aussie/Euro units did not I believe....not 100% sure. > If you can't get them there let me know. It's not so much that I need this particular mirror assembly itself, but that I need to know on which other Cruisers it came, so that this version might not need a custom-order for an aftermarket wide-angle version (which glues onto the stock glass, so geometrical shape is crucial). > Postage will not be cheap but if by ship not too bad. > > Willing to take some balance off the price if you pay for my Russian hat :-) Rob Mullen was less decadent, he only wanted an Aussie hat....;)) Attachments: c:\winsock\pegasus\aueurmir.jpg Date sent: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:27:25 +0900 To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl From: Dave Stedman Subject: Re: 60-series mirrors (was: [DTLC] Custom-made wide-angle s At 15:25 1/2/2002 +0100, you wrote: >See my attachment for Aussie/Euro-style....8-)) >(or were you aware of those already?) That is the Oz one, not as nice as the Japanese one. Smaller and weaker. > > Try your dealer with: > > 87940-90A04(LH) > > 87910-90A04(RH) > >Those are the large rectangulars? Yes, black trim with a convex face. Ask the dealer to diddle with the last part number and look at the descriptions. >a) if not equal to 70-series, my dealer probably can't get it through >the Toyota system (but I probably can get them at a non-dealer). It is the 70 head on an arm to fit the contour of the 60 door. The 70 series has a slightly harder bend in the door at the top. >b) the first one I saw of these were chrome(color plastic), so there >must be at least one more set of part numbers, possibly more for each >additional color. I think chrome and black. Might be more. > > Non-power are $74 US plus 5% tax. > >Did they come in a power version too? >The Aussie/Euro units did not I believe....not 100% sure. 12 volt or 24 volt. Mine are powered :-) Seldom use it though. >It's not so much that I need this particular mirror assembly >itself, but that I need to know on which other Cruisers it came, so >that this version might not need a custom-order for an aftermarket >wide-angle version (which glues onto the stock glass, so geometrical >shape is crucial). The glass part in these is the same as on the 70 series, I have even swapped on across to make sure. >Rob Mullen was less decadent, he only wanted an Aussie hat....;)) Oh, the fur hat is in the works, just thought it might ease the payment. I can send Euros to Holland but can send nothing to Russia from here. Dave Stedman Dog runner over Kakogawa Japan N 34° 45' 45.2" E 134° 52'22.3" stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp stedman@canada.com From: Self To: Dave Stedman Subject: Re: 60-series mirrors (was: [DTLC] Custom-made wide-angle s Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:58:19 +0100 On 3 Jan 02 at 11:27, Dave Stedman wrote: > At 15:25 1/2/2002 +0100, you wrote: > >See my attachment for Aussie/Euro-style....8-)) > >(or were you aware of those already?) > > That is the Oz one, not as nice as the Japanese one. Smaller and weaker. Smaller I knew, please expand on weaker....is the housing material different? The Aus/Eur version seems more brittle than plastic has to be....at least I cracked my housing slightly when colliding into another vehicle's mirror.... Hmm....gotta find a 70-series owner willing to do some real speed testing....me sacrificing my remaining mirror....:)) > > > Try your dealer with: > > > 87940-90A04(LH) > > > 87910-90A04(RH) > > > >Those are the large rectangulars? > > Yes, black trim with a convex face. Ask the dealer to diddle with the last > part number and look at the descriptions. Aha, thanx. > >a) if not equal to 70-series, my dealer probably can't get it through > >the Toyota system (but I probably can get them at a non-dealer). > > It is the 70 head on an arm to fit the contour of the 60 door. The 70 > series has a slightly harder bend in the door at the top. Aha....interesting. But it's always the entire assembly as the smallest possible order, right? At least my dealer told me that....no glass separately. > >b) the first one I saw of these were chrome(color plastic), so there > >must be at least one more set of part numbers, possibly more for each > >additional color. > > I think chrome and black. Might be more. > > > > Non-power are $74 US plus 5% tax. > > > >Did they come in a power version too? > >The Aussie/Euro units did not I believe....not 100% sure. > > 12 volt or 24 volt. Mine are powered :-) Seldom use it though. Cute, like that....although the wiring is probably a mess....oh well, have to do a bit of surgery in the door soon anyway....the lock starts freezing up, either it's worn down too much, or there is water inside I can't reach with antifreeze spray stuff. Is your mirror also heated btw?....:)) (that is one thing I am pondering about....if I have to glue the whole shebang back together, I might as well add a small heating plate inbetween....if only to warm my hands in winter....:)) Do you have a rough estimate on prices btw? (no need for searching, just wanting to get an idea whether the powered-route is feasible) > >It's not so much that I need this particular mirror assembly > >itself, but that I need to know on which other Cruisers it came, so > >that this version might not need a custom-order for an aftermarket > >wide-angle version (which glues onto the stock glass, so geometrical > >shape is crucial). > > The glass part in these is the same as on the 70 series, I have even > swapped on across to make sure. Good, one point for the compatibility department!....:)) Btw, if I understand correctly you yourself are not interested in such a wide-angle add-on unit? I'll send you some scans from older brochures to get an idea what it does....it's really neat stuff, otherwise I wouldn't move heaven & hell to order a new unit myself....it's only now that crashed it that I realize how ergonomically spoiled I was....:)) > >Rob Mullen was less decadent, he only wanted an Aussie hat....;)) > > Oh, the fur hat is in the works, just thought it might ease the payment. I > can send Euros to Holland but can send nothing to Russia from here. If I can assist in transferring money in whatever form to whatever country, don't hesitate to ask....:)) Not quite sure yet what I'll do in terms of mirror replacement, only (aftermarket) glass or entire housing, so don't let your hat-project depend on that....;)) PS: any idea *why* there are 3 versions of mirrors, for the same years? I suspect it has something to do with crash-requirements; being that the side window may not break at mutual collision with speed X....possibly the USA requirements are tougher than elsewhere, hence the smallest mirrors.... Minimum size/surface requirements sound less likely....the USA mirror is too much a ergonomic punishment.... Attachments: d:\pstyler\widemir1.jpg d:\pstyler\widemir2.jpg d:\pstyler\widemir3.jpg d:\pstyler\widemir4.jpg Date sent: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:31:44 +0900 To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl From: Dave Stedman Subject: Re: 60-series mirrors (was: [DTLC] Custom-made wide-angle s At 22:57 1/3/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Smaller I knew, please expand on weaker....is the housing material >different? The Aus/Eur version seems more brittle than plastic has to >be....at least I cracked my housing slightly when colliding into >another vehicle's mirror.... The arm is more spindly. >But it's always the entire assembly as the smallest possible order, >right? At least my dealer told me that....no glass separately. The whole thing or nothing. >Cute, like that....although the wiring is probably a mess I bet that the wiring is there. Look. >Is your mirror also heated btw?....:)) >(that is one thing I am pondering about....if I have to glue the >whole shebang back together, I might as well add a small heating >plate inbetween....if only to warm my hands in winter....:)) No but not really need on a Gulf Spec truck. >Do you have a rough estimate on prices btw? >(no need for searching, just wanting to get an idea whether the >powered-route is feasible) Off the top of my head I think the power ones were about 3 times the cost. Don't hold me to that. >Btw, if I understand correctly you yourself are not interested in >such a wide-angle add-on unit? No, very happy with my mirrors. I can always angle them out or down when in doubt. >If I can assist in transferring money in whatever form to whatever >country, don't hesitate to ask....:)) On the back burner, will let you know if any help is needed. >PS: any idea *why* there are 3 versions of mirrors, for the same >years? I suspect it has something to do with crash-requirements; >being that the side window may not break at mutual collision with >speed X....possibly the USA requirements are tougher than elsewhere, >hence the smallest mirrors.... >Minimum size/surface requirements sound less likely....the USA mirror >is too much a ergonomic punishment.... The Japanese market had mirrors on the fenders for a very long time. The US was probably a styling move and the rest of the world got the good ones from the start. Dave Stedman Dog runner over Kakogawa Japan N 34° 45' 45.2" E 134° 52'22.3" stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp stedman@canada.com From: Self To: Dave Stedman Subject: Re: 60-series mirrors (was: [DTLC] Custom-made wide-angle s Send reply to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date sent: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:14:52 +0100 On 5 Jan 02 at 12:31, Dave Stedman wrote: > At 22:57 1/3/2002 +0100, you wrote: > >Smaller I knew, please expand on weaker....is the housing material > >different? The Aus/Eur version seems more brittle than plastic has to > >be....at least I cracked my housing slightly when colliding into > >another vehicle's mirror.... > > The arm is more spindly. Hmm....that might just as well force the side-window into danger-zone....8-)) Also: my wide-angle mirror goes over the the factory glass; with the Aus/Euro mirrors this means that the glas bulges slightly outside the frame, when looking across....not sure whether I wouldn't have crashed mine without the extra glass, but there surely was no way it wouldn't crash with it present....8-)) Nor would I be sure the side-window would survive if the arm is more spindly.... > >But it's always the entire assembly as the smallest possible order, > >right? At least my dealer told me that....no glass separately. > > The whole thing or nothing. Silly stuff....why then are there screws on the pivot itself....just to separate them and throw half of the new unit in the trashcan?....8-)) > >Cute, like that....although the wiring is probably a mess > > I bet that the wiring is there. Look. Waiting for a temperature rise....even for Sherlock Holme's hats it's too damn cold right now....:)) (minus 10C, minus 30C in Poland, minus 46C in Berchtesgaden/Germany (Hitler's hide-out)) Newsreports claim that Poland is out of road-salt right now....entire winter supply already gone....:)) > >Is your mirror also heated btw?....:)) > >(that is one thing I am pondering about....if I have to glue the > >whole shebang back together, I might as well add a small heating > >plate inbetween....if only to warm my hands in winter....:)) > > No but not really need on a Gulf Spec truck. But yours was a diesel, not? No 24 volt either then? Shame, Japanese winters can be cold enough.... > >Do you have a rough estimate on prices btw? > >(no need for searching, just wanting to get an idea whether the > >powered-route is feasible) > > Off the top of my head I think the power ones were about 3 times the > cost. Don't hold me to that. Sounds plausible....and horrible....8-)) > >Btw, if I understand correctly you yourself are not interested in > >such a wide-angle add-on unit? > > No, very happy with my mirrors. I can always angle them out or down when in > doubt. It's really nice stuff....no more blind-spot, spares your neck-muscles on long high-way stretches, with continuous passing & merging. From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl (Willem-Jan Markerink) Newsgroups: aus.cars.offroad Subject: 60-series wide-angle mirrors (was: What is "bind" Date: Tue, 01 Jan 02 22:55:25 GMT In article , "Biggus" wrote: >> PS: any 60/61 owners interested in a custom-made side-view wide-angle >mirror? Glues onto the factory mirror, US$50 each, high quality optics, >anti-night-glare coating included. 3/4 of the mirror offers normal view, >the remaining outside 1/4 offers nearly twice the normal angle of view >*additionally*....say goodbye to your blind spot!....:)) >> Trying to get enough people interested for a minimum order > >you can buy blind spot mirrors that do that from any servo, or auto store >for about $20-40aus No need for ordering ... But those are (most likely) smaller units, either on top of the housing, or *partly* covering the glass. These are just toys IMO, by far not as ergonomic as a continuous mirror that covers the entire factory glass. All these opinions from someone who's other hobby-ran-out-of-control is optics/photography....my demands are probably a lot higher than average....;)) Btw, after crashing my DS mirror I've also started to ponder about a emergency mirror on the inside....a perfect task for such a wide-angle mirror (cut much smaller of course....thinking about 1/2 or 1/3rd of the factory height....when cut in half, you have one for both sides). Another pondering: a similar stick-on unit on the internal mirror....though not sure yet whether I can get one with the increased viewing-angle on both sides, and on which side I would want it if it indeed is only single-sided) Also checking interest for 80-series....that mirror is already better than the one on the 60, but more angle never hurts (just not sure whether the electric mirrors can handle the extra weight....even stock mounts break rather frequently inside (one of the 3 feet, but repairable, so perhaps also reinforceable....:)). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] FROM: "Biggus" SUBJECT: Re: 60-series wide-angle mirrors (was: What is "bind" DATE: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:28:09 +1100 ORGANIZATION: The Internet Group (Sydney) NEWSGROUPS: aus.cars.offroad > But those are (most likely) smaller units, either on top of the housing, or *partly* covering the glass. These are just toys IMO, by far not as ergonomic as a continuous mirror that covers the entire factory glass. So your talking about 1 piece of glass to replace the glass in the mirror frame on the car?? Interesting, sounds like a good thing, but I dont see the difference in tackin onto the lower 1/4 of the mirror a blindspot mirror.. Do you have a URL to a site with some images maybe I can get a better idea from that.. take care FROM: w.j.markerink@a1.nl (Willem-Jan Markerink) SUBJECT: Re: 60-series wide-angle mirrors (was: What is "bind" DATE: Wed, 02 Jan 02 18:53:03 GMT NEWSGROUPS: aus.cars.offroad In article , "Biggus" wrote: >> But those are (most likely) smaller units, either on top of the housing, >or *partly* covering the glass. These are just toys IMO, by far not as >ergonomic as a continuous mirror that covers the entire factory glass. > >So your talking about 1 piece of glass to replace the glass in the mirror >frame on the car?? Interesting, sounds like a good thing, but I dont see the >difference in tackin onto the lower 1/4 of the mirror a blindspot mirror.. You would if you realized that your lower 1/4 only offers an additional angle at half that surface, probably less. So that's 1/8 of the original surface, instead of 1/4, which means a much smaller magnification ratio as well (because that same additional angle must fit in less surface) >Do you have a URL to a site with some images maybe I can get a better idea >from that.. Send me an email, and I'll send you a few (small) JPEG's. Working on a picture of an actual 60-series mirror (my remaining (sniff) PS-unit........hey, that's your DS-unit down under....:)) Willem (heck, if I can balance the sales (in particular crash-replacements over time (mirror against mirror)) between ozziland and Europe, I might even get a 50/50 match with left/right versions, and only stock complete sets....:)))) Jan Baaaytheway: seems as if (at least) Canadian 60's (at least '87) got an even larger (more upright/rectangular) stock mirror (US 60's got a smaller one, landscape orientation, really pathetic)....something to ponder about for those wanting the largest mirror possible (I am currently checking whether that one matches 70-series mirrors, which would make this size as aftermarket a bit more feasible). Dang, just when you think you know all about them 60's, such an utterly trivial detail shows up....8-)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] FROM: Kevcat SUBJECT: Re: 60-series wide-angle mirrors (was: What is "bind" DATE: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:20:08 +1000 ORGANIZATION: Comindico Australia Pty Ltd NEWSGROUPS: aus.cars.offroad The New Mercedes Benz Actros I was driving had one the top 3/4 was flat and the bottom 1/4 was curved just eliminates the seperator between the old type that had flat and curved mirrors in the mirror fram with a divider supposedly cheaper to replace as they only have to replace the one piece of glass Kev FROM: "Rob2" SUBJECT: Re: 60-series wide-angle mirrors (was: What is "bind" DATE: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:15:20 +0800 NEWSGROUPS: aus.cars.offroad Someone once told me that the wide angle mirrors were not legal (in WA) if they covered or replaced the vehicle's original ones. May be worth checking in your particular state/country. Rob FROM: w.j.markerink@a1.nl (Willem-Jan Markerink) SUBJECT: Re: 60-series wide-angle mirrors (was: What is "bind" DATE: Wed, 02 Jan 02 18:56:01 GMT NEWSGROUPS: aus.cars.offroad In article <3c326e54$0$26301@echo-01.iinet.net.au>, "Rob2" wrote: >Someone once told me that the wide angle mirrors were not legal (in >WA) if they covered or replaced the vehicle's original ones. May be >worth checking in your particular state/country. In my old documentation (remember, I bought my first set nearly 10 years ago), they do mention that the 1/4-3/4 split is separated by a thin black line for this very legal purpose. Of course, that might not be enough for a particular jurisdiction....but at least the argument as such is not unheard of. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]