From: Prillaman Tim To: "Landcruiser List (E-mail)" Subject: [LCML] New source for electric fan... Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:17:25 +0200 I've been talking to some Mustang guys and they clued me to a killer electric fan. This particular fan is from a early 90's Lincoln Mark VIII, it's reported CFM is 3600!!! I've seen reports of it moving 4000cfm, not sure about that though. Anyhow, I've ordered one... Possible problems I see..... it comes mounted in a plastic shroud (trimming necessary), and from what I read it draws 100amps (not sure here either) when it starts. Question... My current electric is a Black Magic which is wired through the ignition with probably 14ga wire, a 30amp inline fuse, and an inline thermostatic switch. Now, I figure I'll hafta use 10ga. wire for this beast, question is, being that it draws or could draw 100amps where should I terminate the power wire? I really don't wanna melt my ignition harness, nor do I want the fan to run after I kill the motor. Should I run straight off the battery with a relay powered from my existing fan/ignition wire? What about my little thermostatic switch, ya think amperage will matter to it? Once I get the fan in a test it, I'll post the results for all the V8 guys, or anyone who'd like to run cooler at low speed. TIA Tym http://tymp.tripod.com tim.prillaman@volvo.com / tym@triad.rr.com TLCA# 7484 '72 FJ40 "Mighty-Mighty" - 400csb - SM420 - scout ps - 4 whl discs - SOA '83 FJ60 "Churchill" - blown 2F - 350 TBI in the works From: "Jim Madden" To: landcruisers@tlca.org Subject: [LCML] Mark VIII fan part#s/prices (here) Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:37:00 -0400 [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I just got through talking with the lincoln parts guy and got the prices and part numbers for the radiator fan for the 93' lincoln mark VIII the fans part # is F3LY-8C607-AA and it costs $284.80 new yikes and the 2 speed relays part number is F4LZ-12B577-AA and it costs $179.38 new I think i'll get mine at the salvage yard thankyou!Now i'm not absolutly sure this is the fan and relay that's been talked about here but I used the year and model Lincoln that was shown in a previous fan message so I assume it's the correct one. If anyone might be interested I can look up the part numbers on my computer parts program and see which dealers that have these instock anywhere in the U.S.HTH Regards, Jim Madden TLCA 2142 yankeetoys.org 77'vj40 "Endeavor" H41/3spd wardens billet xfer/ AA Ranger OD/Chev 350/York onboard air 67' M416 "sidekick [1] Subject: RE: [LCML] Mark VIII fan part#s/prices (here) From: "Steve Rosco" To: Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:51:03 -0700 the Mark VIII fan shroud is 22"W x 18.5"H this is taken from the website: http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/Auto/MarkVIII_Fan.htm posted by Steve Fox. HTH Steve Rosco smrosco@ouc.bc.ca From: Mark Whatley To: landcruisers@tlca.org Subject: Re: [LCML] Mark VIII fan part#s/prices (here) Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:33:37 -0800 Prillaman Tim wrote: > The F3LY part number is correct for the '93. Anyone who is interested should > contact www.houstonperformance.com. Their price was $139 when I checked. It > sucks how these dealerships are, the price I got from Lincoln was $233. How > can they do this? > > Tym If anyone has any physical diminsions of one of these fans please share. Does it appear that it could be separated from the shroud reasonably? Mark... -- Mark Whatley Owner, Cruisers Only, Wasilla Alaska Mailto:cruiser@mtaonline.net Technical Editor, Toyota Trails, TLCA Mailto:techexchange@tlca.org Check out the Alaska Cruiser Trek 2001! http://www.aktrek.somewhere.net From: Prillaman Tim To: "'landcruisers@tlca.org'" Subject: [LCML] Mark 8 fan arrived today!!! Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:29:08 +0200 I got my spanking new Mark 8 fan today! measurements of the complete unit are 22" wide, a little less than 19" tall, and 5" deep. I personally have to trim mine to 19" x 19".... anyhow pics are at the following link. http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/number1tym/lst?.dir=/Mark+8+Fan&.src=ph&.done=http%3a /photos.yahoo.com/bc/number1tym/vwp%3f.dir=/Mark%2b8%2bFan%26.dnm=DSC00275.jpg%2 .src=ph&.view=t Tym From: Prillaman Tim To: "Landcruiser List (E-mail)" Subject: [LCML] Mark VIII fan Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Mon, 20 May 2002 20:33:26 +0200 Okay, I installed the fan this past weekend, and got around to putting up a web page today. It's every bit as simple as the web page looks too. The page still needs some minor updates, but they'll come with time, unless I forget. Anyhow, here's the link for those interested..... http://tymp.tripod.com/mark8fan.html Tym http://tymp.tripod.com tim.prillaman@volvo.com / tym@triad.rr.com TLCA# 7484 '72 FJ40 "Mighty-Mighty" - 400csb - SM420 - scout ps - 4 whl discs - SOA '83 FJ60 "Churchill" - blown 2F - 350 TBI in the works From: Prillaman Tim To: "Landcruiser List (E-mail)" Subject: [LCML] Mark VIII fan report Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:40:49 +0200 Okay here is my set up.... 400csb, stock water pump, Stewart/Robert Shaw hi-flow 160deg. thermostat, Griffin 24"x19" alum. radiator, and the Mark VIII fan. Typically on a 70-75 degree day the engine would run at least 200 degrees on the highway, and get to 210-215 on hillclimbs, with the old electric fan. This past weekend, after installing the Mark VIII fan, I went on a camping/ATV riding trip the Cruiser was loaded with camping gear and on an 88 degree day going full tilt on the highway it stayed at 180 degrees and topped out at 190 on hillclimbs, but quickly dropped back to 180 after cresting the hills. This fan ROCKS!! A buddy of mine towing 2 quads on a trailer behind his diesel surburban, was reaching temps around 220 on the hills, which prompted me to think about this fan situation. There are those who sing the praises of the belt driven fan, that no electric can match it. My question is how can a fan who's cfm is dependant on engine rpm's be better? For example if you're towing and the rpm's drop and the engine works harder like climbing hills the fan speed drops thus you loose cfm's and can't possibly cool as efficiently, while with an electric fan you get the same cfm's no matter what the engine rpm. The ideal situation is I guess to have both, perhaps a pusher electric and the belt fan, but it seems to me that if you had to choose one or the other electric would be the obvious choice. Is my logic wrong?? I'm asking because I don't want to have 2-3 different designs on my FJ60 build up and I'm leaning towards the monster electric fan now..... Tym http://tymp.tripod.com tim.prillaman@volvo.com / tym@triad.rr.com TLCA# 7484 '72 FJ40 "Mighty-Mighty" - 400csb - SM420 - scout ps - 4 whl discs - SOA '83 FJ60 "Churchill" - blown 2F - 350 TBI in the works FROM: The Rocker SUBJECT: Leuke route door de alpen DATE: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:48:31 +0200 ORGANIZATION: EuroNet Internet NEWSGROUPS: nl.auto Over een maand vertrek ik naar Kaprun in Oostenrijk en vandaar uit wil ik door de Alpen in de richting van Frankrijk met de Lincoln Mark III en ik wil graag een mooie route rijden, dus zo min mogelijk snelwegen. Passen en smalle wegen zijn geen bezwaar ;-) Wie heeft er suggesties? Erik From: "Guy Hinton" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] Electric fan with 2F Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:52:33 -0400 I have run a real basic single speed GM fan on my old 2f and it worked great. I ran the same fan on my 350 and it would get a little warm on a long climb like Schoolbus at Tellico. I am now running the large 2 speed unit found in the Lincoln Mark 8, Cougar and other Fords and it cools fine using just the low speed. If you run a plastic electric fan make sure the blade ends are captured. You could end up with too much blade flex and take out the radiator and fan. Guy From: Manny Santana To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: [LCML] FJ-40 V8 Cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Posting this for a friend. Does the list have any V8 Cooling recommendations for an FJ-40? Manny Santana TLCA #4196 __________________________________ From: "Delisle, Richard" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] FJ-40 V8 Cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:44:10 -0500 There is lots of info on this in the archives, on pirate (www.pirate4x4.com) and on www.ih8mud.com. All of which comes to a basic conclusion, the more horsepower you put in, the more radiator and airflow you need (volumetricly speaking). When I did my 350 TBI swap this winter, I put in the biggest AL radiator I could fit between the fenders and 2 large electric fans with a shroud. So far so good...we'll see how it does this summer... -Rick DeLisle Lone Star Land Cruisers, TLCA From: "Robert Blumel" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] FJ-40 V8 Cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:06:38 -0400 FWIW, it just helped my neighbor toss his aluminum rad from his Cobra. It was a major brand, less than 3 years old, running the red stuff. Turns out the rods had corroded - irreparable. Maybe others will be better, just saying, don't rule out a good standard radiator. Rob From: Bobby Moran To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] FJ-40 V8 Cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:10:00 -0500 On the conversion i do for my customers i usually perform a factory radiator upgraded to a five core and use FLX 150 Black magic electric fan. Most of the time i put in a generously sized pipe for the exhaust as well. I like using the factory tanks because the fit looks stock when you are done. My own truck has a Vorter 5.7 and never gets above 190 degrees even in the summer Bobby The Cruiser Co. From: Mark Whatley To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] FJ-40 V8 Cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:19:45 -0800 Manny Santana wrote: > LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > > Posting this for a friend. > Does the list have any V8 Cooling recommendations for > an FJ-40? > Unless it is a reallyt over top top powerplant, it should do fine with: A high flow water pump (pick your brand), a factory four core rad in good shape and a large GM clutch fan. Forget the small flex fans and IMHO the electrics too. Think a fan from a Caddy or other large luxo-boat from the mid seventies to the mid eighties. Large diameter, steep pitch and lots of blades. Drop the radiator down to center the fan, use a shroud and it should run nice and cool. Mark... Subject: RE: [LCML] FJ-40 V8 Cooling From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:00:38 -0400 My FJ40 with built 400 small block on a hot day mid 80's and above would = not function on the highway I would have to stop and cool it down every cou= ple of miles. This was with a Griffin 26x19 aluminum, (2 row I believe) and= an electric fan that pulls 2000cfm. I tried stock water pump, Stewart High= flow aluminum water pump, no difference. Then I found out about the Lincol= n Mark 8 fan. Since then it's never gotten over 200, even on a 90+ degree d= ay at highway speeds, uphill. Even when it gets at it's hottest, upper uppe= r 190's if I stop, within 2 minutes it's down to 180 degrees. The Mark 8 fan supposedly pulls 3600cfm, and being electric it's a consta= nt 3600cfm, not just at higher revs, good thing about electrics in my humbl= e opinion. Plus with a thermostatic switch like I run you can have it kick = on at 190 or so in the winter and 180 or less in the summer. Costs $150 +/-= from Houston Performance, at that it's cheaper than a black magic or a rad= iator upgrade, and is adaptable to most radiators (read mine is a 26x19 sim= ilar to stock 40 size IIRC. Some details of the fan and my install can be = found at... http://www.tym.us/mark8fan.html HTH, Tym From: BBrewer903@aol.com To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:33:35 EDT After years of screwing around with all sorts of combinations of water pumps, radiators, fans, and even hood louvering, I'm with Mark on this one. Start with a true high volume water pump. Get a new four row radiator. I get them from Silla cooling in Compton Cal. for $125. Use a shroud. The steel custom ones from Specter or BTB. Add a seven bladed fan from an older Cadillac with a new heavy duty thermostatic clutch and you're set. Don't forget the high flow thermostat and the proper mix of coolant. It takes the package of parts, that's why it's called a cooling "system". Another thing that I do is remove the stock bezel, it blocks almost 20% of the air flow. Yes, it really does, take a good close look. I've got two FJ 40's with 350's set up this way and they seldom see 190 even on the hottest days. Bob From: william jackson Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:09:50 -0700 (PDT) --- BBrewer903@aol.com wrote: > After years of screwing around with all sorts of > combinations of water pumps, > radiators, fans, and even hood louvering, I'm with > Mark on this one. Start > with a true high volume water pump. Get a new four > row radiator. I get them > from Silla cooling in Compton Cal. for $125. Use a > shroud. The steel custom ones > from Specter or BTB. Add a seven bladed fan from an > older Cadillac with a new > heavy duty thermostatic clutch and you're set. Don't > forget the high flow > thermostat and the proper mix of coolant. It takes > the package of parts, that's > why it's called a cooling "system". Another thing > that I do is remove the > stock bezel, it blocks almost 20% of the air flow. > Yes, it really does, take a > good close look. I've got two FJ 40's with 350's set > up this way and they seldom > see 190 even on the hottest days. > > Bob Bob, I am building my FJ55 V8. What radiator do you get from the place in Compton? JTR sells a 85 Corvette radiator that will fit in the 55, but I am leary of the plastic tanks. Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:09:13 -0400 > Bob, I am building my FJ55 V8. What radiator do you > get from the place in Compton? JTR sells a 85 Corvette > radiator that will fit in the 55, but I am leary of > the plastic tanks. I don't understand the whole "thicker" radiator concept. I'm not really d= isputing, just trying to understand. Of the two rad. manufacturers I've rea= searched neither makes or recommends a radiator larger than a two row. Both= say there is no benefit, it takes more to force air through and by the tim= e the air hits the back most rows it's heated air. Both recommend an electr= ic fan, due to the fact that no matter what the engine is doing you get a c= onstant cooling effect, ie; low speed crawling on a hot day or high speed o= n the highway you still get the maximum cooling available. Not controlled b= y engine RPM. Tym From: Floyd Bufkin To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:41:43 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Prillaman Tim I don't understand the whole "thicker" radiator concept. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- As you surely remember, we discussed this a lot on the list a couple of years ago, and I did a lot of research into the reasons, but here it is: Wider is better than thicker. Aluminum is better than copper. Cross flow is better than upright. I think that in some cases, there is a desire to use a radiator that will fit in the original mounts for appearances and ease of installation. Looking forward to reading but not responding to all the discussion this will generate. Do your own research. Floyd Bufkin Ault,Colorado,USA 70 FJ40, 350, SM420 "Shasta" "Let's Roll" From: Mark Whatley To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:49:46 -0800 Prillaman Tim wrote: > LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > > > > I don't understand the whole "thicker" radiator concept. I'm not > really disputing, just trying to understand. Of the two rad. > manufacturers I've reasearched neither makes or recommends a radiator > larger than a two row. Both say there is no benefit, it takes more to > force air through and by the time the air hits the back most rows > it's heated air. Both recommend an electric fan, due to the fact that > no matter what the engine is doing you get a constant cooling effect, > ie; low speed crawling on a hot day or high speed on the highway you > still get the maximum cooling available. Not controlled by engine > RPM. > > Tym Wider and thinner would be the best. IF you had the room to fit enough heat exchange area. In most rigs, and certainly in a Cruiser, you do not. Theory and reality sometimes diverge. Electric fans would be best. If you had a motor driving it that was powerful enough to pull comparable amounts of air to a mechanical. And a powerful enough charging system to run the motor. Again, theory and reality heading different directions. I LIKE electric cooling fans. I run them when feasible. But generally speaking they are puny, and sometimes you just need more airflow. Mark... To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: Drew Eckhardt Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:08:09 -0600 In message <38715.216.229.32.83.1081285006.squirrel@www.intranetsinc.com>, dmad dox@intranetsinc.com writes: >LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > >Not to spark a huge discussion, but I would argue that aluminum is better >than copper when speaking of cooling. Maybe when it comes to corrosion, >but as far as transferring and spreading heat, copper is superior to >aluminum. Aluminum radiator tubes can be made with more surface area than copper tubes for better heat transfer. They can be welded to the fins instead of soldering which also improves efficiency. All of this offsets the greater thermal conductivity of copper. Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: "Dallas Maddox" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Not to spark a huge discussion, but I would argue that aluminum is better than copper when speaking of cooling. Maybe when it comes to corrosion, but as far as transferring and spreading heat, copper is superior to aluminum. Take for example the research I have done on overclocking and cooling computer processors. I can get an additional 200Mhz out of my Pentium 4 chip and still remain under 40 degrees C. The same frequency with my aluminum cooler I am at 52 degrees C. In some cases, manufacturers are making fanless cpu coolers based on a miniature copper radiator. Allowing the air flowing through the case to properly cool the cpu, and in some cases it is suffcient. I have used 6 different cooling devices, 3 aluminum, 3 copper...copper cools at least 20% more effectively. Corrosion? That may be another factor, as I am speaking in terms of a chip handing heat to a spreader, and the spreader dispersing the heat.....no fluid is involved. I am 100% sure of this, as I am typing this on a cooler PC due to a copper cooler.... HTH, Dallas Dallas Maddox 08/76 FJ40 "Cliff" TLCA #13877 From: James Henry To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:22:20 -0600 > Not to spark a huge discussion, but I would argue that aluminum is better > than copper when speaking of cooling. Maybe when it comes to corrosion, > but as far as transferring and spreading heat, copper is superior to > aluminum. > > Take for example the research I have done on overclocking and cooling > computer processors. I can get an additional 200Mhz out of my Pentium 4 > chip and still remain under 40 degrees C. The same frequency with my > aluminum cooler I am at 52 degrees C. > > In some cases, manufacturers are making fanless cpu coolers based on a > miniature copper radiator. Allowing the air flowing through the case to > properly cool the cpu, and in some cases it is suffcient. > > I have used 6 different cooling devices, 3 aluminum, 3 copper...copper > cools at least 20% more effectively. Corrosion? That may be another > factor, as I am speaking in terms of a chip handing heat to a spreader, > and the spreader dispersing the heat.....no fluid is involved. > > I am 100% sure of this, as I am typing this on a cooler PC due to a copper > cooler.... > > HTH, > > Dallas > In a radiator, you need to coat the exterior copper with paint to keep it from corroding. Even thermally conductive paints will trap heat. Aluminium radiators do not need to be coated to prevent corrosion on the outside. Try painting the bottom of your copper heatsink (use paint, and get all of the thermal greas off of it) and see how much better it cools than the bare aluminium heatsink... I guarantee you will be buying a new processor.. -James -James H. From: Andrew Farmer Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:39:01 +1200 Wider is better than thicker - yes - but sometimes you can't fit a wider rad in. For the same width, a thicker rad will dissapate more heat than a thin one. As Dallas says, copper conducts heat BETTER than aluminium. Al is used is a lot of performance applications because weight for weight it has better thermal dissapation. (It's also cheaper) So - you can get a bigger rad in al which dissapates more heat but is still lighter than the copper one. This 'tubes with more surface area' I dispute. Lots of little tubes have more surface (or 'wet') area than a few big ones. (I recently fitted a replacement rad to my work van - same thickness core, but much higher tube density - temp went down on avg 30% under heavy load). Fins welded to al tubes - have to agree this would move heat better. Corrosion = paint - also agree. The crossflow vs upright - I'd love to hear some more info on this one....:) Andrew Farmer 1975 FJ40 - http://go4wd.co.nz/gallery/Gertrude Wellington, New Zealand Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:44:33 -0400 > I LIKE electric cooling fans. I run them when > feasible. But generally speaking they are puny, and sometimes you just > need more airflow. > > > Mark... > Trust me this is an 18" electric swirl blade fan with 9 blades, the elctr= ic motor pulls a constant 33amps, not puny in the least. I put a 350 in my = 40, a pretty near stock 350, in '98 with the L/C radiator, tried high volum= e and stock water pumps, small electric fan, even a high pressure radiator = cap (20+ psi IIRC) and nothing would cool it. Eventually cracked both heads= . Put the 400 in upgraded to the Griffin alum. radiator tried both water pu= mps, nothing would cool it. put the Mark 8 fan on and never had a problem a= gain, it won't even puke into the puke jug now. The Mark 8 was the proverbi= al silver bullet for my heating problem. I even ordered one for the FJ60, b= ut couldn't squeeze it between the water pump and L/C radiator. At $150 it'= s well worth a try, over $300-$400 radiators, custom shrouds, etc... Oh and it survived the heat of an engine compartment fire.... heh Tym http://www.tym.us TLCA# 7484 '72 FJ40 - Mighty Mighty (CrispyCruiser) - 400csb/SM420 - 4whl discs - SOA = - scout ps '83 FJ60 - Bam-Bam - 350 TBI - Hot camp shower "Real men weld nekkid!!" To: landcruisers@birfield.com From: AJ Huff Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:55:03 -0400 At 04:24 PM 4/6/2004, you wrote: >Looking forward to reading but not responding to all the discussion this >will generate. Do your own research. Wow. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that your just having a bad day, Floyd. That's horrible attitude. If everyone just "did their own research" we wouldn't have this list. There has been a lot of turnover in the last few years. I've seen a lot of new names, the archives "can" be a pain to search and warmer climes are just around the corner. So I think this is a great and timely discussion. I'm learning a lot. -AJ AJ Huff TLCA# 4727 66 FJ40 (not running) 87 4 Runner SR5 (held together with paint) Three Rivers, MI From: "Scott Zimmermann" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:58:07 -0400 > The crossflow vs upright - I'd love to hear some more info on this > one....:) > > Andrew Farmer > 1975 FJ40 - http://go4wd.co.nz/gallery/Gertrude > Wellington, New Zealand > > Perhaps when the air crosses the radiator at an angle, it becomes more turbulent and a larger volume of the air makes complete and prolonged contact with the fins maximizing the thermal efficiency of the air? To: landcruisers@birfield.com From: AJ Huff Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:08:13 -0400 At 04:24 PM 4/6/2004, you wrote: > >Not to spark a huge discussion, but I would argue that aluminum is better > >than copper when speaking of cooling. Maybe when it comes to corrosion, > >but as far as transferring and spreading heat, copper is superior to > >aluminum. > >Aluminum radiator tubes can be made with more surface area than copper >tubes for better heat transfer. They can be welded to the fins instead >of soldering which also improves efficiency. All of this offsets the >greater thermal conductivity of copper. Thanks Drew, because I've been wondering too. I can almost buy this answer. Almost. Does this mean there is a market for a cast finned copper radiator? I mean if we eliminate the solder joints, do we step up a level? >In a radiator, you need to coat the exterior copper with paint to keep it = from >corroding. Even thermally conductive paints will trap heat. > >Aluminium radiators do not need to be coated to prevent corrosion on the >outside. Do we know if this is true? Really, I'm asking because I really don't know. Do copper radiators corrode and fail (rupture) or do they just tarnish and become less effective. The paint thing I can almost buy, almost. The question I had beating around the inside of my brain today is, where does the 190=B0F number come from? Why can't an engine run at say 250=B0F? = What fails? It can't be the block. Is it a pressure issue or does it correlate with something else, like 220=B0F equates to x hundred degrees in the head? The more I thought about it, the less I can understand it. Anybody? AJ Huff TLCA# 4727 66 FJ40 (not running) 87 4 Runner SR5 (held together with paint) Three Rivers, MI From: "JODY" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:09:42 -0400 tim, what was the link to the mark fan? thanks jody From: william jackson Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:16:18 -0700 (PDT) --- Scott Zimmermann wrote: > > Perhaps when the air crosses the radiator at an > angle, it becomes more > turbulent and a larger volume of the air makes > complete and prolonged > contact with the fins maximizing the thermal > efficiency of the air? > JTR has a good write on the virtue of various radiators. Although they are discussing V8s in S10s, it is applicable to our cruisers. They seem to argue for a radiator that has a one row, cross flow, set of tubes. They promoate a 1985 corvette radiator. The size and pic of it is on the link below. That will fit in a stock Fj55, with a little help. Anyone ever use this radiator? From: Mark Whatley To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:01:54 -0800 Prillaman Tim wrote: > LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > >> I LIKE electric cooling fans. I run them when feasible. But >> generally speaking they are puny, and sometimes you just need more >> airflow. >> >> >> Mark... >> > > Trust me this is an 18" electric swirl blade fan with 9 blades, the > elctric motor pulls a constant 33amps, not puny in the least. I put a > 350 in my 40, a pretty near stock 350, in '98 with the L/C radiator, > tried high volume and stock water pumps, small electric fan, even a > high pressure radiator cap (20+ psi IIRC) and nothing would cool it. > Eventually cracked both heads. Put the 400 in upgraded to the Griffin > alum. radiator tried both water pumps, nothing would cool it. put the > Mark 8 fan on and never had a problem again, it won't even puke into > the puke jug now. The Mark 8 was the proverbial silver bullet for my > heating problem. I even ordered one for the FJ60, but couldn't > squeeze it between the water pump and L/C radiator. At $150 it's well > worth a try, over $300-$400 radiators, custom shrouds, etc... > > Oh and it survived the heat of an engine compartment fire.... heh > Oh yeah. The Mark VIII fan is a beast. I had one to install in one of my projects until the worthless blowcast of syphilitic monkeys stole it when they broke into the shop last year. I wound up going another route with that project, and haven't purchased another yet. Anyway, this fan pulls a lot of air. I really like it. But, it still doesn't pull as much as a big mechanical. It pulls plenty, and the lesser air flow shouldn't be a problem unless you have other more significant shortcomings in the system. But... It is the exception in the world of electric cooling fans. Can anyone name another one that is in the same class, and suitable for mounting in a Cruiser (and affordable and reasonably available...) As you mention it is of a size where fitment can be a concern. And at 33 amps constant (and about 100 on startup IIRC) it takes a bit more than a 45 amp alternator to run to and practiaclly any other electrical accessory. The Mark VIII fan is a winner. But it doesn't make up for all of the lesser electric fans out there. I run a standard pancake design, 16 inch pusher on the front of my built up 2F. Cools fine. And I have no worries at all about radiator damage from a flexing fan blade in a deep water crossing. But for a V8 in a '40 that presents cooling problems, my persoanl preference is still for a engine driven clutch fan. Mark... From: "scott urquhart" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:02:01 -0700 Tim, you have a part number for that fan?????????????????????????????? Scott Urquhart, 72 fj40, K3 Gixxer 1000 From: Mark Whatley To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:20:22 -0800 AJ Huff wrote: > Do we know if this is true? Really, I'm asking because I really don't know > Do copper radiators corrode and fail (rupture) or do they just tarnish and > become less effective. The paint thing I can almost buy, almost. My experience is that the copper will develop a pantina which protects it from further deterioration. Sort of like the layer of aluminum oxisde tha develops on the surface of exposed AL. Copper roofs survive this way for years. It is an extreme example, but isn't the Statue of Liberty somne sort of copper/brass/bronze alloy? That is natural corrosion which colors and protects(?) it. Radoators are not copper. I don't think that they are pure brass. I don't off the top of my head know what the blend is. I have seen many which have had bare spots on them for years/decades with no harm. And if it did corroade, it would still last longer than the inside in most environments. I have seen some radiators in tractors, industrial equipment and the like which are not painted. I assume that our raditors are painted primarily for cosmetic purposes. > > The question I had beating around the inside of my brain today is, where > does the 190=B0F number come from? Why can't an engine run at say 250F? What > fails? It can't be the block. Is it a pressure issue or does it correlate > with something else, like 220F equates to x hundred degrees in the head? > The more I thought about it, the less I can understand it. Anybody? > The operating temp of the cooling system is based on the optimum operating temp of the engine. The temps in and around the combustion chambers, the temps on the valves, the temps on the pistons and rings, the temps at the carb and in the intake. Also the temp of the oil. Too hot and it breaks down rapidly. The temp of the thermostat can be exceeded in certain specific spots within the coolant as it passes through the engine Don't forget the fact that antifreeze is also an "anti-boil". Even with that assistance, the coolant is pretty close to boiling. Once the coolant heats to the point that it tries to vaporize the pressure buold exgtremely rapidly. The engineering and material difficulties in keeping it contained are in a different class than just keeping fluid under mild pressure where it belongs. Some newer engines run a 220 degreee thermostat. The EFI system want to be at that temp. Some that I am not familiar with may like it hotter. Mark... From: Bagsmo@aol.com To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: [LCML] radiator discussion Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:40:34 EDT In a message dated 4/6/2004 3:11:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, landcruisers-request@birfield.com writes: > Wow. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that your just having a > bad day, Floyd AJ, Not that Floyd doesn't come off a bit curmudgeonly from time to time, but I read his comments as "make sure you do your full research" not "do it somewhere else." I even think he said he'd look forward to reading the discussion, but WTF, I could be wrong... Ray From: "Floyd Bufkin" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] radiator discussion Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:55:50 -0600 Maybe it did not come across the way I meant. What I was trying to say is, that when we had this discussion before, a lot of people, including me, posted stuff that turned out to be questionable. I got on line and read everything I could find about radiators. I was surprised to find I had a lot of misconceptions. So I am just suggesting others do the same. You might be surprised at what you find. Answers to "Why is aluminum better than copper?" "Why is a crossflow better than an upright?" (Hint: Look at the location of the cap.) " Why is wider better than thicker?" Floyd From: BBrewer903@aol.com To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: [LCML] Re: V8FJ55 radiator Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:10:47 EDT The radiators that I get from Silla Cooling are Korean made direct replacement units for the FJ40. They also stock Radiators for FJ60's and 62's all for around $125. They are four row cores with copper tubes and brass tanks. I have been running a V8 FJ55 for fifteen years using the stock 55 radiator with a modified shroud, high volume water pump, and a seven bladed heavy pitched fixed fan. No overheating problems at any level of performance. 55's are tough to retrofit with alien radiators because of the mounting set up and all that. Been there. All the talk about aluminum VS copper VS crossflow VS Thick or thin, bla bla bla doesn't mean squat if it don't fit without major mods. The Corvette unit fits without a lot of trouble and is designed to cool a hi pro 350 V8. The same could be said for a lot of early Camero, Firebird, or Nova Radiators. They're crossflow and have brass tanks and come in two to four rows. But they're not aluminum. But they will fit into a 55 grille without having to chop the front end up. Bob From: "George Odell" To: Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:54:47 -0700 I've been reading this thread with interest so I guess I'll put my 2 cents in. I'm running a 283 v8 with stock FJ40 tanks that I took to a radiator shop. They put in a 4 core 16 fins per inch dimpled tube core. I'm also running a 19" 7 bladed ford fan with no clutch. I also changed my pulleys on the crank and water pump to make it turn faster. Now instead of running 210-235 it runs 185-200. This is with the temp at 85-100 degrees. George Odell, Round Mountain, NV. TLCA# 6900 1964 FJ45, 1972 FJ40, 1977 FJ40 rocrawler@pirate4x4.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V8FJ55 radiator Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:02:48 +0200 On 6 Apr 2004 at 21:10, BBrewer903@aol.com wrote: > The > Corvette unit fits without a lot of trouble and is designed to cool a > hi pro 350 V8. But not with heavy loads at the lowest speeds....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: landcruisers@birfield.com From: John Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:29:41 -0700 At 06:54 PM 4/6/04, you wrote: >LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > >I've been reading this thread with interest so I guess I'll put my 2 cents >in. I'm running a 283 v8 with stock FJ40 tanks that I took to a radiator >shop. They put in a 4 core 16 fins per inch dimpled tube core. I'm also >running a 19" 7 bladed ford fan with no clutch. I also changed my pulleys on >the crank and water pump to make it turn faster. Now instead of running >210-235 it runs 185-200. This is with the temp at 85-100 degrees. > >George Odell, Round Mountain, NV. TLCA# 6900 >1964 FJ45, 1972 FJ40, 1977 FJ40 >rocrawler@pirate4x4.com Howdy! This is pretty close to what I did on my FJ-55V8. I had the radiator shop replace the stock core with a high density (14 fins to the inch) core and move the outlet on the lower tank from the back to the bottom so I can run a much larger fan without hitting the radiator hose. I also went to the PicknPull and got a set of truck pulleys; oversized on the crank and undersized on the water pump. I run a 160 thermostadt, and it rarely gets over that temperature even out in the desert in the summer. I am only running a 15 inch fan so far, and I still have the original water pump. These will both eventually upgraded, but they are a low priority. Another nice benefit is that the oversized crank pulley also runs my alternator a little faster than stock, so my lights stay on bright even at 400 RPM. JoHn Bricker 76 FJ-55 Safari Grade all around Phoenix, Az. From: "AGMercer" To: Subject: Re: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:34:01 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Henry" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 4:22 PM > > LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > > > > Not to spark a huge discussion, but I would argue that aluminum is better > > than copper when speaking of cooling. Maybe when it comes to corrosion, > > but as far as transferring and spreading heat, copper is superior to > > aluminum. > > > > Take for example the research I have done on overclocking and cooling > > computer processors. I can get an additional 200Mhz out of my Pentium 4 > > chip and still remain under 40 degrees C. The same frequency with my > > aluminum cooler I am at 52 degrees C. > > > > In some cases, manufacturers are making fanless cpu coolers based on a > > miniature copper radiator. Allowing the air flowing through the case to > > properly cool the cpu, and in some cases it is suffcient. > > > > I have used 6 different cooling devices, 3 aluminum, 3 copper...copper > > cools at least 20% more effectively. Corrosion? That may be another > > factor, as I am speaking in terms of a chip handing heat to a spreader, > > and the spreader dispersing the heat.....no fluid is involved. > > > > I am 100% sure of this, as I am typing this on a cooler PC due to a copper > > cooler.... > > > > HTH, > > > > Dallas > > > In a radiator, you need to coat the exterior copper with paint to keep it from > corroding. Even thermally conductive paints will trap heat. > > Aluminium radiators do not need to be coated to prevent corrosion on the > outside. > > Try painting the bottom of your copper heatsink (use paint, and get all of the > thermal greas off of it) and see how much better it cools than the bare > aluminium heatsink... > > I guarantee you will be buying a new processor.. > > -James > -James H. > I just signed up to LCML, but I can't resist commenting on this. Bare metal, copper or aluminum, is a poor radiator of heat. Conduction and radiation are not the same: a brick is a better radiator than a block of copper! Aluminum or copper are used because of their excellent thermal conductivity, which is needed to conduct heat away from the semiconductor ( or coolant in a car radiator), but this is not going to do the device (or your motor) any good if the heat sink can't radiate the heat--it will just get hotter and hotter. All heat sinks that I have ever seen have been anodized (usually black) to improve emissivity. Oil base paint is an excellent radiator of heat, no matter what its color (I think about 95% as good as an ideal radiator). Arnold Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:59:46 -0400 Man, who started all this?!?! There are lots of opinions and none can be= considered right or wrong as long as the objective is obtained. If the sol= ution you employ cools your V8 then it's the right solution. It's good that= we can exchange information this way, some one will read through this thre= ad and employ probably some of each idea. That's what this list is about. K= udos.... My last 2 cents is that it seems like a lot of trouble having a custom ra= diator built, moving outlets and inlets on the tanks, hunting down custom p= ulleys, when theres a really good chance that a simple $150 bolt on fan wil= l cool it with a near stock (maybe even a stock FJ40), radiator. Now for the next thread how about triangular axle mounted anti-wrap bars = versus spring mounted "snubbers". ;) Tym Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:07:54 -0400 > Some newer engines run a 220 degreee thermostat. The EFI system want >to be at that temp. Some that I am not familiar with may like it >>>hotter. This is the reason I originally put the standard 195 degree t-stat in my = 350 TBI in the FJ60. I wanted to but was hesitant about trying a cooler t-s= tat. However, with the addition of A/C, in the summer, I ran into highway t= emps well over 200 with the A/C on. What good is A/C if you can only use it= on cool days? So, I recently replaced the T-stat with a 160 degree with no= ill effects, just runs a good 20 degrees cooler on average, with my fan se= t to come on at 180. Tym Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling ** PART NUMBER From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:16:28 -0400 -----Original Message----- > Tim, you have a part number for that fan?????????????????????????????? > > >Scott Urquhart, > 72 fj40, K3 Gixxer 1000 IIRC... One of the links on this page has a part number.... I know I kn= ow... The guys talking about putting it in his J**P, but even J**P guys ha= ve their moments... ;) Oh and about the high amp draw, run an alternator from, not exactly sure = the year model but I believe it's an '86 Firebird with fuel injected V8, ma= ybe a 305. It puts out 108 amps. I run this alt. on my 40 and my 60 both wi= th V8's. I use a Ford started solenoid to kick it on and haven't burnt one = up yet. $7 at the parts store, so I keep a spare just in case.... Tym Subject: FW: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling ** PART NUMBER From: "Prillaman Tim" To: "Landcruiser List (E-mail)" Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:17:59 -0400 OOOPsss... and that link is.... http://www.jacksongalleries.com/alex/jeep/taurusfan/ Tym From: "Prillaman Tim" To: "Landcruiser List (E-mail)" Subject: [LCML] Mark VIII fan... Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:21:22 -0400 don't worry with the part numbers. Call Houston Performance (www.houstonperformance.com). Ask for a Mark VIII fan, they'll know what yer talkin' about. They sell 'em for $150 +/- Ford and Lincoln wants over $250!! WoooHooo!! I feel like I'm giving back to the list.... or something.. heh Tym Subject: RE: [LCML] Re: V-8 cooling From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:25:16 -0400 > > The crossflow vs upright - I'd love to hear some more info on this > > one....:) > > Perhaps when the air crosses the radiator at an angle, it becomes more > turbulent and a larger volume of the air makes complete and prolonged > contact with the fins maximizing the thermal efficiency of the air? IIRC, and I may be waaaay wrong, but I believe the cross flow cools bette= r because the water flows from one side to the next then down one level at = a time. Where a top to bottom the water goes down the first open chute and = that's the extent of it's time in the radiator. I believe I read this on Gr= iffin's or Stewart components site... Tym From: "scott urquhart" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] Mark VIII fan... Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:15:02 -0700 >From: "Prillaman Tim" >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:21:22 -0400 > > don't worry with the part numbers. Call Houston Performance >(www.houstonperformance.com). Ask for a Mark VIII fan, they'll know what >yer talkin' about. They sell 'em for $150 +/- Ford and Lincoln wants over >$250!! > > WoooHooo!! I feel like I'm giving back to the list.... or something.. >heh > >Tym I am in Canada so I was wanting to find something local. The local parts store could not find a fan for the mark VIII I will check the net for part numbers. and then hopefully the parts guy can find me one Scott Urquhart, 72 fj40, K3 Gixxer 1000 From: Bob Firestine Subject: Re: [LCML] Mark VIII fan... To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:44:39 -0700 (PDT) --- Prillaman Tim wrote: > WoooHooo!! I feel like I'm giving back to the list.... or > something.. heh Thank you Tym. I bought a fan and radiator for my 40 just before everything else 'hit the fan' and I'm still trying to get an ugly divorce over with. Anyway, my friend who bought my 40 just had it installed last week. It's about a 31" wide aluminum radiator and the fan doesn't even cover about 4 or 5 inches of the core. It cools like crazy, but now there are concerns about the alternator keeping up. It's always something....Bob ===== Bob Firestine TLCA #1394 Clovis CA USA Photos at: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/gutsrus2k/lst?.dir=/Modification+Parts 93 FZJ80 Mudrak improved - 66 FJ45 SWB project From: william jackson Subject: RE: [LCML] Mark VIII fan... To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:00:09 -0700 (PDT) --- Prillaman Tim wrote: > > I think a 3.8L Ford Taurus uses the same fan... > If that helps... > > Tym > The Ford Taurus uses a slightly smaller fan, but still outputs tons of air. I have one on my 55. Junk yard price $30 Subject: RE: [LCML] Mark VIII fan... From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:16:33 -0400 > -----Original Message----- > > The Ford Taurus uses a slightly smaller fan, but still > outputs tons of air. I have one on my 55. Junk yard > price $30 Smaller how?? Depth wise?? if so I might could squeeze one of those into the 60 someday.... Tym http://www.tym.us TLCA# 7484 '72 FJ40 - Mighty Mighty (CrispyCruiser) - 400csb/SM420 - 4whl discs - SOA - scout ps '83 FJ60 - Bam-Bam - 350 TBI - Hot camp shower "Real men weld nekkid!!" From: "rutbeer" To: Subject: [LCML] Ford electric fans for sale Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:54:57 -0400 Based on Tym's constant yammering about these fans ;) I went and picked up three of them today. I'm keeping one, and the other two are available. Complete with a HUGE connector and about a 4 inch pigtail. I need $20 each and you pay actual shipping. I have no idea if one will fix my problem, but for that amount of money, I'll give it a shot. Barry Atlanta, Georgia From: "rutbeer" To: Subject: [LCML] Lincoln fan tech ? Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com X-Reply-To: "rutbeer" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:14:14 -0400 Okay, now that I have actually gone and picked several of them up, I find another web site about them that gives MULTIPLE part numbers. The first website that Tim listed said the Lincoln and the Taurus fans were the same....they aren't. The Taurus fans have a wider shroud on them than the Lincoln and they also appear to have a different blade configuration. The Lincolns that I have seen pictures of have fewer blades, but the motor appears to be roughly the same size and shape as the Taurus units I have. ALL of them use the same 8C608 part number, but they have different beginning and ending codes depending on the year and the cfm/rpm that the fans will move. According to this website http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/8408/MarkVIII.html Some of them will turn much higher rpm than others. If you scan down through the article, you will see where he lists: >> 93-96 use p/n F3LY 8C607 A @ 245.80 The 93-96 spin 1100 rpmson low and 1850 on highspeed. 97's use p/n F7LZ 8C607 AB @ 196.23 98's use p/n F8LZ 8C607 AA @ 140.11 The 97-98 spin 1800 on low and 2225 on high. They all look the same, all come with a shroud. The 93-96 spin slower according to Ford Motorsport Tech line. >>> So, what's the @255.80, etc? 255 what degrees? Barry From: "FJ40 Dave" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: [LCML] Mark VIII Fan..or '95 Taurus Fan Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:30:36 +0000 I have the two speed Ford Taurus Fan....it has athe flat motor versus the cone shaped one and has three wires going to the motor. I got mine from a 1995 Ford Taurus. Moves A LOT of air! Draws A LOT of Electrical Power! $15 at the local pull-a-part. Dave & Theresa Anacortes, WA "http://groups.msn.com/GoofysCommunity" "http://groups.msn.com/coffeeroastingathome" Subject: RE: [LCML] Lincoln fan tech ? From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:39:27 -0400 > -----Original Message----- > > Okay, now that I have actually gone and picked several of > them up, I find > another web site about them that gives MULTIPLE part numbers. > The first > website that Tim listed said the Lincoln and the Taurus fans were the > same....they aren't. The Taurus fans have a wider shroud on > them than the > Lincoln and they also appear to have a different blade > configuration. The > Lincolns that I have seen pictures of have fewer blades, but the motor > appears to be roughly the same size and shape as the Taurus > units I have. > ALL of them use the same 8C608 part number, but they have different > beginning and ending codes depending on the year and the > cfm/rpm that the > fans will move. According to this website > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/8408/MarkVIII.html > Some of them will turn much higher rpm than others. If you scan down > through the article, you will see where he lists: > >> > 93-96 use p/n F3LY 8C607 A @ 245.80 > The 93-96 spin 1100 rpmson low and 1850 on highspeed. > > 97's use p/n F7LZ 8C607 AB @ 196.23 > 98's use p/n F8LZ 8C607 AA @ 140.11 > The 97-98 spin 1800 on low and 2225 on high. > > They all look the same, all come with a shroud. The 93-96 spin slower > according to Ford Motorsport Tech line. > >>> > > So, what's the @255.80, etc? 255 what degrees? > > Barry The one on my FJ40 was ordered from Ford, I have a buddy at the parts counter, it's the F3LY 8C607. Was a bit more expensive than Houston Perf. and took longer to get it to me.... Tym From: "Cliff Daniel" To: "LCDigest" Subject: [LCML] re:V8 cooling (late entry) Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:08:50 -0700 Just to add another experience from the dreaded AZ furnace. Cross flow good. Reason? Water is more turbulent (I'm told). Big clutch fan+shroud good. Something I hadn't noticed mentioned is fin count. More fins are better to a point, until you are restricting air flow. Same with tubes, it's a balance with the two features of the radiator. Get a good cap, pressure and boiling point is important. As for the Al vs. copper debate, ?? I ended up with aluminum before I understood the two metals better. My stroked V8 final cooling system consists of a standard pump, 2 row Al rad positioned on the fan center, shroud, flex fan (no room for a clutch right now and tired of the noise and drag of the fixed blade), 180 stat, outer elect pusher fan (emergency use only when moving very slow on real hot days) and my secret weapon, a shroud in front of the radiator. Allowing only cooler air from outside the engine compartment to be pulled through. This made a 20deg change when I was battling the cooling problem before the change from a hi efficiency 4 row FJ40 rad to the Al one in there now. Been keeping cool for some time now Cliff Daniel 77 FJ40/Sport 383 TLCA #2605 Honeywell 4WD Club http://members.cox.net/cwdaniel/ From: "scott urquhart" To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] Lincoln fan tech ? Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:28:38 -0700 >From: "Prillaman Tim" >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:39:27 -0400 > > The one on my FJ40 was ordered from Ford, I have a buddy at the parts >counter, it's the F3LY 8C607. Was a bit more expensive than Houston Perf. >and took longer to get it to me.... > >Tym Called Ford in Vancouver canada today and they want 554.24 cdn dollars for the fan, so off to the pick and pull for me in the morning Scott Urquhart, 72/87 V8J40 TBI, K3 Gixxer 1000 http://www.hehlhans.de/motorg55amgk.htm#b38 Electrical fan from MB G55AMG, 850W, 71A, PWM-control.