Date sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:05:46 -0600 From: "Javier Vieto C." Subject: [DTLC] Rearend adjustment To: dtlc@helios.net Send reply to: dtlc@helios.net Rearend adjustment I'm trying to reasemble a bj43 rearend. So after a very carefully inspection, I decide to reuse some of the old bearings (the ones at the sides of the carrier) but it was necesary to replace the ones that held de pinion shaft. Now, I'm reading a lot about the pattern that the pinion makes against the ring, and hopefully, is almost there, but I´m worried for necesary preload in the bearings, some people said that the pinion nut requires a 199 lb-ft torque, other said that is only necesary to be tighted until the whole assembly needs 15 to 20 lb-in to rotate. Please any coments will be much apreciated. From: "Kelly and Diane Kutz" To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] Rearend adjustment Date sent: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:11:06 -0500 Send reply to: dtlc@helios.net -----Original Message----- From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of Javier Vieto C. Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:06 PM To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: [DTLC] Rearend adjustment Rearend adjustment > I'm trying to reasemble a bj43 rearend. So after a very carefully > inspection, I decide to reuse some of the old bearings (the ones at the > sides of the carrier) but it was necesary to replace the ones that held de > pinion shaft. Now, I'm reading a lot about the pattern that the pinion makes > against the ring, and hopefully, is almost there, but I´m worried for > necesary preload in the bearings, some people said that the pinion nut > requires a 199 lb-ft torque, other said that is only necesary to be tighted > until the whole assembly needs 15 to 20 lb-in to rotate. Please any coments > will be much apreciated. > The two issues I see just looking out from under the shade tree, If you are still using the same ring and pinion that was in place before you changed the bearings you should be concerned about pinion depth, the basic starting place is to put the same spacers behind the bearing and hope for the best when it comes to how close the old bearing is to the new bearing, if there is much difference the rear will howl. It seems that the lower the gear ratio the more likely this is to happen, not sure why. Also one other factor is to consider how deep the bearing races are in the rear, this will also effect pinion depth. Unfortunately the only thing you can do now if you did not take pinion depth readings before tearing down the old rear is to try to match up the pattern or play the trial and error game, or put it back to the center of the spec and hope that is what was there before. I have heard guys say they coat the ring gear with lapping compound and drive it a few miles with no lube in it and grind a new wear pattern, This is a real shade tree trick and your on your own if you want to try it, The second comment is that I have seen guys have to lay down some real heavy torque to compress the crush sleeve, crush sleeves should never be reused, and I have always done the 15-20 inch pounds thing Hope this helps From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: fj55@tlca.org Copies to: landcruisers@tlca.org, 80scool@yahoogroups.com Priority: normal Subject: [FJ55] Diff crush sleeve vs sold washer (was: speaking of lunch Send reply to: fj55@tlca.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:24:26 +0100 On 17 Oct 02 at 22:42, Luke wrote: > > From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" > > Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org > > Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:16:54 +0100 > > To: fj55@tlca.org > > Subject: Re: [FJ55] speaking of lunch > > > > You can beef up the 8" front diff by using a machined spacer, instead > > of a crush washer/sleeve: > > > > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80_frdif.txt > > say no to crush sleeves. we manufacture our own machined spacers for toyota > diffs. my gear guy is the guru of gears and had a bunch made up. he sells them > to various gear manufacturers as an upgrade to the install kits. those lame > crush sleeves cause 90% of r&p failure. Well yes, this is what I though initially too, until my shop told me that they had to machine that spacer to a very specific size, down to fractions of a millimeter, matching that particular diff....a full-solid sleeve can't be produced in 'one-size-fits-all' apparently (makes sense, otherwise Toyota had done it themselves). The problem then becomes: does the diff shop have their own lathe to machine it to spec in real-time, or must they source it out, with possible multi-day delays....not a friendly scenario for cramped diff shops, disrupting the r&p setup process every time.... However, my shop told me that the compromise was a smaller sold washer, plus a small crush sleeve on top....is this what you folks do? Otherwise I would be very interested to hear more about this.... Also, it sounds as if you guys do this for *all* (Cruiser?) diff's, not just for the 80-series 8" front unit....does the 9.5" need it too, or is that just a 'if you do it once, do it right' argument? Any benefit other than peace of mind? And/or 100-series, and/or 8" Hilux/4Runner? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Subject: RE: [FJ55] Diff crush sleeve vs sold washer (was: speaking of lunch From: "Williams, Lance" To: Copies to: Send reply to: fj55@tlca.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:31:31 -0400 -----Original Message----- > From: Willem-Jan Markerink [mailto:w.j.markerink@a1.nl] > However, my shop told me that the compromise was a smaller sold > washer, plus a small crush sleeve on top....is this what you folks > do? Solid spacers are normal for early toyotas. Crush sleeves came in around 1980, I don't know exactly when. You install the spacer and appropriate # of shims to acheive the desired preload. Very normal stuff, most people I know running autolockers retrofit their later model diffs with the earlier solid spacer as the crush sleeves seem to loosen up with all the constant hammering. I tried to convert my front high pinion 80 series locker to a solid spacer but the one I had didn't fit with my oil slinger so I just went with a crush sleeve. I don't think it's as much of an issue in an open or spooled application (or ARB/elec). Lance Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:48:41 -0800 Subject: Re: (Fwd) [FJ55] Diff crush sleeve vs sold washer (was: speaking o From: Luke To: > From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" > Reply-To: w.j.markerink@a1.nl > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:39:02 +0100 > To: Luke > Subject: (Fwd) [FJ55] Diff crush sleeve vs sold washer (was: speaking o > > Hi Luke, > > Not sure if you saw this message on the list....still curious & > interested! > (possibly commercially as well, for a Dutch Cruiser shop) > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" > To: fj55@tlca.org > Cc: landcruisers@tlca.org, 80scool@yahoogroups.com > Priority: normal > Subject: [FJ55] Diff crush sleeve vs sold washer (was: speaking of lunch > Reply-to: fj55@tlca.org > Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:24:26 +0100 > > On 17 Oct 02 at 22:42, Luke wrote: > >>> From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" >>> Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org >>> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:16:54 +0100 >>> To: fj55@tlca.org >>> Subject: Re: [FJ55] speaking of lunch >>> >>> You can beef up the 8" front diff by using a machined spacer, instead >>> of a crush washer/sleeve: >>> >>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80_frdif.txt >> >> say no to crush sleeves. we manufacture our own machined spacers for toyota >> diffs. my gear guy is the guru of gears and had a bunch made up. he sells >> them to various gear manufacturers as an upgrade to the install kits. those >> lame crush sleeves cause 90% of r&p failure. > > Well yes, this is what I though initially too, until my shop told me > that they had to machine that spacer to a very specific size, down to > fractions of a millimeter, matching that particular diff....a > full-solid sleeve can't be produced in 'one-size-fits-all' > apparently (makes sense, otherwise Toyota had done it themselves). > The problem then becomes: does the diff shop have their own lathe to > machine it to spec in real-time, or must they source it out, with > possible multi-day delays....not a friendly scenario for cramped diff > shops, disrupting the r&p setup process every time.... > > However, my shop told me that the compromise was a smaller sold > washer, plus a small crush sleeve on top....is this what you folks > do? > Otherwise I would be very interested to hear more about this.... > > Also, it sounds as if you guys do this for *all* (Cruiser?) diff's, > not just for the 80-series 8" front unit....does the 9.5" need it > too, or is that just a 'if you do it once, do it right' argument? Any > benefit other than peace of mind? > And/or 100-series, and/or 8" Hilux/4Runner? > howdie, we are making the crush sleeve eliminator for toyota truck axles right now. a one size fits all scenario is possible. there are shims needed for each diff but the machined spacers are all the same. cruiser spacers coming soon. if you'd like to talk to my email challenged gear man you can call him at 530.477.3341 -luke