From: To: References: <20021120040257.VQNJ8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> <003b01c2909d$6c9403a0$75f49244@cg.shawcable.net> <20021121002400.LQWE8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> <015101c29117$99d8e900$75f49244@cg.shawcable.net> Subject: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:51:30 -0800 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > again i have had 3 x 3Bs to rebuild with under 200,000 on them. maintainence > seems to be the big thing, oh and abusive behavior... > Wayne I just want to check: maintenance means oil changes, fuel filter, and air cleaner (as far as the motor goes) right? No one's actually ever told me, but it's not like these motors are complicated... Robin Parker 81 BJ42 86 HJ60 www.newcruiser.ca TLCA# 12798 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:01:08 -0800 From: gbowie@uniserve.com To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Quoting robin@newcruiser.ca: > > > again i have had 3 x 3Bs to rebuild with under 200,000 on them. > maintainence > > seems to be the big thing, oh and abusive behavior... > > Wayne > > I just want to check: maintenance means oil changes, fuel filter, and air > cleaner (as far as the motor goes) right? No one's actually ever told me, > but it's not like these motors are complicated... > > Robin Parker > 81 BJ42 86 HJ60 > www.newcruiser.ca > TLCA# 12798 > Adjust the valves too... gb From: purcellbloodstock@eircom.net To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:34:00 -0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance > Adjust the valves too... > > gb Could you elaborate a bit regarding adjusting the valves? James Ireland, Bj45/1982 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:15:15 -0500 From: 83bj60@consultech.cx Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Hello, On Thursday, November 21, 2002 at 4:34:00 AM, purcellbloodstock@eircom.net wrote this about [DTLC] B,H Maintenance: > Could you elaborate a bit regarding adjusting the valves? > James Ireland, > Bj45/1982 Let me add my grain of salt here: unless the motor is very young I would be VERY careful with this porcedure. I have burnt valves in my younger years trying to make an old negine run as quiet as a new one. Worn engines cannot be adjusted the same way as newer engines because any excessive 'slop' at rest can be taken away during normal operation by lubrication. So beware od overzealous 'tightening' of the valves!!! I have never touched the engine on the Ultra Marthon Runner and nor has the PO and the one before that. Of course it is a bit noisier than some 'younger' engines but it works just as well. If it ain't broken, don't fix it!!! From: jdoucette5522@rogers.com To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:37:02 -0500 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <83bj60@consultech.cx> To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance > Hello, > > On Thursday, November 21, 2002 at 4:34:00 AM, purcellbloodstock@eircom.net > wrote this about [DTLC] B,H Maintenance: > > > > Could you elaborate a bit regarding adjusting the valves? > > James Ireland, > > Bj45/1982 > > Let me add my grain of salt here: unless the motor is very young I > would be VERY careful with this porcedure. I have burnt valves in my > younger years trying to make an old negine run as quiet as a new one. > > Worn engines cannot be adjusted the same way as newer engines because > any excessive 'slop' at rest can be taken away during normal operation > by lubrication. So beware od overzealous 'tightening' of the valves!!! > > I have never touched the engine on the Ultra Marthon Runner and nor > has the PO and the one before that. Of course it is a bit noisier than > some 'younger' engines but it works just as well. > > If it ain't broken, don't fix it!!! I have found that just after the valves are adjusted they seem loud at first, ignore them because after a couple of days they will quiet right down. A diesel mechanic said that this is often the case with old style high mileage diesels. Jack Doucette Ottawa HJ60- 297,000 km Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:08:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance From: mrtaylor@magma.ca To: Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net on 11/20/02 11:51 PM, robin@newcruiser.ca at robin@newcruiser.ca wrote: > I just want to check: maintenance means oil changes, fuel filter, and air > cleaner (as far as the motor goes) right? No one's actually ever told me, > but it's not like these motors are complicated... > > Robin Parker > 81 BJ42 86 HJ60 > www.newcruiser.ca > TLCA# 12798 ...and don't forget the cooling system. Mike T. From: gbowie@uniserve.com To: References: <20021120040257.VQNJ8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> <003b01c2909d$6c9403a0$75f49244@cg.shawcable.net> <20021121002400.LQWE8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> <015101c29117$99d8e900$75f49244@cg.shawcable.net> <002901c29119$a949ef40$2a27678e@Calathumpian> <1037854868.3ddc68940f3db@members.uniserve.ca> <001101c29141$31c9b680$eb88869f@purcellbloodstock> <1397665628.20021121081515@consultech.cx> Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:29:07 -0800 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > > > Could you elaborate a bit regarding adjusting the valves? > > James Ireland, > > Bj45/1982 > > Let me add my grain of salt here: unless the motor is very young I > would be VERY careful with this procedure. I have When I did the frame off the rockers came off when the valves were set. The bottoms were in very good shape. We adjusted the valves and to be truthful, I have not checked since. With a fresh engine sitting in the shop I've become lazy in that regard. I saw Sheldon's rocker assembly when he took it off recently. He would not have gotten an accurate adjustment with them, so they were ground down. Seat of the pants assessment showed a noticeable improvement. Good thing he checked. I think the glove manual says adjust the valves every 18 months. I can not find mine just now (somewhere in the mess in the office) to confirm. On my 1984BJ42 I know the PO adjusted them every year. I've yet to hear a healthier motor. I do not think you want to be in there every oil change, but once every year or two, it can not hurt. It would be a good time to take the rockers off and see what condition they are in. Hmmm, guess I'd best take my own advice and check and see; I'm about due! Adjusted properly the valves will be open and closed the correct time. If you have wear on the bottom of the rockers, or as you indicate...if they are too tight or loose, they will not cycle correctly. Checking once in a while can not hurt. I guess each to their own, with the knowledge that adjusting them incorrectly can open a world of hurt. Would be interesting to see what condition your marathon runner is in, however I understand your desire to not fix if it ain't broke. gb Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:15:15 -0500 From: 83bj60@consultech.cx Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Hello, On Friday, November 22, 2002 at 3:29:07 PM, gbowie@uniserve.com wrote this about [DTLC] B,H Maintenance: >> >> > Could you elaborate a bit regarding adjusting the valves? >> > James Ireland, >> > Bj45/1982 >> >> Let me add my grain of salt here: unless the motor is very young I >> would be VERY careful with this procedure. I have > When I did the frame off the rockers came off when the valves were set. The > bottoms were in very good shape. We adjusted the valves and to be truthful, > I have not checked since. With a fresh engine sitting in the shop I've > become lazy in that regard. > I saw Sheldon's rocker assembly when he took it off recently. He would not > have gotten an accurate adjustment with them, so they were ground down. > Seat of the pants assessment showed a noticeable improvement. Good thing he > checked. > I think the glove manual says adjust the valves every 18 months. I can not > find mine just now (somewhere in the mess in the office) to confirm. > On my 1984BJ42 I know the PO adjusted them every year. I've yet to hear a > healthier motor. > I do not think you want to be in there every oil change, but once every year > or two, it can not hurt. It would be a good time to take the rockers off > and see what condition they are in. Hmmm, guess I'd best take my own advice > and check and see; I'm about due! > Adjusted properly the valves will be open and closed the correct time. If > you have wear on the bottom of the rockers, or as you indicate...if they are > too tight or loose, they will not cycle correctly. Checking once in a while > can not hurt. > I guess each to their own, with the knowledge that adjusting them > incorrectly can open a world of hurt. > Would be interesting to see what condition your marathon runner is in, > however I understand your desire to not fix if it ain't broke. > gb I understand valve clearances are worth looking after but once bitten, twice shy. I appreciate your point on Sheldon's rocker assembly. That can explain a lot. I'm starting to think that *maybe* I should have a look at them... Not that there is anything that compels me to! In any case, I'm in Morin heights, 75 minutes north of Montreal, if you get around these parts let me know :) -- Best regards, Christophe Cuvillier 83bj60 "Ultra Marathon Runner", 500,000 km and going... From: purcellbloodstock@eircom.net To: References: <20021120040257.VQNJ8498.orval.sprint.ca@there><003b01c2909d$6c9403a0$75f49244@cg.shawcable.net><20021121002400.LQWE8498.orval.sprint.ca@there><015101c29117$99d8e900$75f49244@cg.shawcable.net><002901c29119$a949ef40$2a27678e@Calathumpian><1037854868.3ddc68940f3db@members.uniserve.ca><001101c29141$31c9b680$eb88869f@purcellbloodstock><1397665628.20021121081515@consultech.cx><001301c29265$cf135ca0$3300000a@a2a7c7> <188928687.20021122171515@consultech.cx> Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:51:17 -0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net --- Original Message ----- From: <83bj60@consultech.cx> To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance > I understand valve clearances are worth looking after but once bitten, > twice shy. I appreciate your point on Sheldon's rocker assembly. That > can explain a lot. I'm starting to think that *maybe* I should have a > look at them... Not that there is anything that compels me to! > > In any case, I'm in Morin heights, 75 minutes north of Montreal, if > you get around these parts let me know :) > Ok Now I am confused. I would agree with the "ain't broke don't fix it" brigade but I also have this driving ambition to keep my engine in top running order. The only thing thats stopping me from rushing out & attacking my valves is that I went to (and still attend) the very expensive 'trial & error' school of technology. So if anyone could be bothered could I have a blow by blow account of how to adjust ones valves. James, Ireland 1982 bj45/bj40 Return-Path: Delivered-To: wjmarkerink@mail.a1.nl Received: from mx.a1.nl (mx2.a1.nl [213.171.64.41]) by mail1.a1.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2962003F7 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:51:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.bronco.com (unknown [62.49.254.229]) by mx.a1.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D33E1BD66 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:44:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from helios.net (daemon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.bronco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id gANEq8xW025490; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:52:09 GMT Received: from orval.sprint.ca (orval.sprint.ca [209.5.194.98]) by mail.bronco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gANEq2xW031509 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:52:03 GMT Received: from there ([149.99.113.207]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20021123145155.TTE8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:51:55 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: mike@metalmangler.com Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:51:50 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <20021120040257.VQNJ8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> <188928687.20021122171515@consultech.cx> <001c01c292d6$0aef3260$5989869f@purcellbloodstock> In-Reply-To: <001c01c292d6$0aef3260$5989869f@purcellbloodstock> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021123145155.TTE8498.orval.sprint.ca@there> Precedence: bulk Sender: dtlc-owner@helios.net On Saturday 23 November 2002 04:51 am, you wrote: > Ok Now I am confused. I would agree with the "ain't broke don't fix > it" brigade but I also have this driving ambition to keep my engine > in top running order. The only thing thats stopping me from rushing > out & attacking my valves is that I went to (and still attend) the > very expensive 'trial & error' school of technology. So if anyone > could be bothered could I have a blow by blow account of how to > adjust ones valves. Firstly, I don't remember who posted it a week or two ago, but somebody mentioned that if the rocker face has a divot in it from wear, then all the feeler gauges and good intentions in the world won't help you. You need to flatten the faces so that you're measuring the actual gap. As for the blow-by-blow, it's given in detail in the engine manual. Here is a Reader's Digest Condensed version: firstly: #1 cylinder is closest to the fan, #4 is closest to the firewall. Each cylinder has an intake valve and an exhaust valve, the intake valve is closer to the fan, the exhaust valve is closer to the firewall. 1: warm up engine 2: remove cylinder head cover (rocker cover) 3: set #1 piston to TDC in the compression stroke (just put a socket or wrench on the crank bolt and turn *clockwise* until the timing pointer is pointing at the notch in the crank pulley - a bit of chalk or Liquid Paper in the timing notch helps visibility. If the rockers for the valves on the #1 cylinder are loose, and the #4 cylinder is tight, then you're golden, otherwise turn the crank one more revolution. 4: Now set the gap between the rocker face and the end of the valve for the following valves: #1 intake and exhaust #2 intake #3 exhaust Intake gap is .020mm (.008") Exhaust gap is .036mm (.014") Turn the crank one more revolution and do all of the valves that you didn't do before: #2 exhaust #3 intake #4 intake and exhaust I like to turn the crank again and check them before I put the cover back on. By the way... trim your posts. There were two pages of old posts on that message. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Fighting the good fight against porosity, mike@metalmangler.com | lack of fusion, and people who constantly | try to correct the spelling of 'weldor'. Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:46:42 -0800 From: ramullen@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net For the love of doG people, show your B/3B/H/2H some love. Valves should be adjusted annually or every 24,000km, whichever comes first. I'd wager less than 25% of North American Toyota diesels are. That's because valve rattle is masked by normal injection pump/diesel combustion sounds. If the valves aren't kept in proper adjustment, the valve stem starts to hammer its way THROUGH the rocker arm. Once there's a divot in the rocker arm, you'll never be able to adjust them properly because your feeler gauge will be checking the clearance between the portions of the arm that never actually contact the valve stem and the valve stem. The pounding of improperly adjusted valves also takes its toll on the top of the valve stem. You can check for divots by removing the bolts that hold the rocker towers on and lifting the entire rocker shaft off, or by backing the adjusters all the way off and running your finger over the face of the rocker. As the pounding continues, your valve lift gradually decreases, affecting the engine's breathing. The arc of movement of the rocker combined with the valve stem being held captive in the divot results in thrust loads on the valve that eventually wear out the valve guides. I don't have the URL handy, but there used to be an electronic form of the B/3B/11B/13B/13B-T manual available on the web somewhere. Mechanical incompetence is no excuse. If you can't care for your own Cruiser, have it serviced by someone who can. -- Rob Mullen RAMullen@shaw.ca North Vancouver, B.C., Canada TLC FAQ Editor Phoenix TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers '80 BJ40/2 '85 BJ60 '87 AW11 Why walk?...When you can CRAWL! Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:49:34 -0800 From: ramullen@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net I just remembered a better URL than the on-line manual. Check out -- Rob Mullen RAMullen@shaw.ca North Vancouver, B.C., Canada TLC FAQ Editor Phoenix TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers '80 BJ40/2 '85 BJ60 '87 AW11 Why walk?...When you can CRAWL! From: stwalsh@uniserve.com To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:57:06 -0800 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net] On Behalf Of > mike@metalmangler.com > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 6:52 AM > To: dtlc@helios.net > Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance > > On Saturday 23 November 2002 04:51 am, you wrote: > > > Ok Now I am confused. I would agree with the "ain't broke don't fix > > it" brigade but I also have this driving ambition to keep my engine > > in top running order. The only thing thats stopping me from rushing > > out & attacking my valves is that I went to (and still attend) the > > very expensive 'trial & error' school of technology. So if anyone > > could be bothered could I have a blow by blow account of how to > > adjust ones valves. > > Firstly, I don't remember who posted it a week or two ago, but > somebody mentioned that if the rocker face has a divot in it from wear, > then all the feeler gauges and good intentions in the world won't help > you. You need to flatten the faces so that you're measuring the > actual gap. That was probably me. It's best to take the rocker assembly right off and inspect the faces of the rockers, otherwise you are wasting your time adjusting your valves. On mine some were mint and others had pretty good pit that would have tripled the spec'd gap. I'm sure a machine shop could do a nice job of resurfacing , I went with the belt sander and they turned out pretty nice. All in all the seat of the pants feel is better, especially when towing my tent trailer. Sheldon Walsh 86 BJ 70 From: mike@metalmangler.com Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] B,H Maintenance Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:55:08 -0500 On Saturday 23 November 2002 01:57 pm, you wrote: > That was probably me. Well done, then. It was a good point. > It's best to take the rocker assembly right > off and inspect the faces of the rockers, otherwise you are wasting > your time adjusting your valves. On mine I just adjusted them wide open and used an 8" smooth mill file across each face, and if it took a full taste then it was good to go, otherwise depending on how wide the dark spot was I might get a more agressive file. The first time you do it I don't doubt it would be faster to just take the whole assembly off. > I'm sure > a machine shop could do a nice job of resurfacing I'm sure they could... I have a machine shop, and work in a bigger one, and I still used a file. 8-) > I went with the > belt sander and they turned out pretty nice. No doubt. As long as you can keep the face reasonably perpendicular to the valve stem then it shouldn't matter. If it was off a lot (like, 10 degrees or more) then I could see it causing problems. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Fighting the good fight against porosity, mike@metalmangler.com | lack of fusion, and people who constantly | try to correct the spelling of 'weldor'.