To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 09:11:40 -0700 From: Rob Mullen Subject: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires I just got off the phone with John Lane at customer service at Michelin North America. He's their main man for the "tactical" line of tires which include the XCL, XZL, and XL. I've finally got confirmation that Michelin North American can't get me what I really want--an 8.25R16 XZL. A bit of background. I got hooked on the 8.25R16 size by a tire that Continental used to make. They were special in that they were "REAL" truck tires. Re-treadable, with steel belts in the sidewalls (whereas most just have nylon/polyester) They were regrooveable which meant that you could cut a custom tread pattern into them or sipe them and they'd remain DOT legal! They amounted to a 34x9" tire. Their tread pattern was more aggressive than a BFG, yet they were quieter. Their natural rubber tread had superb grip yet wore like iron. The Continentals had a "G" load range rating which meant they were good for ~3600lbs/tire @ 100psi. I basically designed my whole suspension/truck to work with these, but then they were discontinued and my local dealer sold out of them a couple weeks before I was ready to buy. A period of intense despair followed. Then, I found the XZL by Michelin. Similar construction, and a wicked looking even more aggressive tread pattern. Unfortunately, the advertising I was looking at was in Japan. The local Michelin "Tactical" dealer told me that Michelin didn't make the XZL's in an 8.25R16 size. NO, you just don't SELL them >:| Eventually, I got John's number at Michelin North America. He also claimed Michelin didn't make them. WRONG! They can get me 7.50R16s, which are basically a 31x8, 9.00R16s, which are like 36x10s, and 11.00R16s, which I don't have specs for, but are probably like 40x12s. The 9.00R16s go for roughly CA$370/tire (~US$250) and if I had the necessary gearing/suspension I'd definitely go for it, BUT the biggest I can go with right now is the 34" I'd designed for. It looks like I'm going to have to import a set of 8.25R16s myself. Here's where the international help angle comes in. I need to figure out where I can get them from the cheapest--ie. which country has the best combination of retail price/exchange rate/proximity to North America. Could everyone outside North America get me a price from their local Michelin dealer? The best price I've got so far is roughly CA$250 a tire from Japan. ____________________________________________________________________ Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com From: runars@isbank.is Subject: RE: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:54:44 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Mullen [SMTP:ramullen@wimsey.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 4:12 PM > To: DTLC@off-road.com > Subject: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires > > I just got off the phone with John Lane at customer service at Michelin > North America. He's their main man for the "tactical" line of tires which > include the XCL, XZL, and XL. I've finally got confirmation that Michelin > North American can't get me what I really want--an 8.25R16 XZL. > > A bit of background. I got hooked on the 8.25R16 size by a tire that > Continental used to make. They were special in that they were "REAL" > truck > tires. Re-treadable, with steel belts in the sidewalls (whereas most just > have nylon/polyester) They were regrooveable which meant that you could > cut a custom tread pattern into them or sipe them and they'd remain DOT > legal! They amounted to a 34x9" tire. Their tread pattern was more > aggressive than a BFG, yet they were quieter. Their natural rubber tread > had superb grip yet wore like iron. The Continentals had a "G" load range > rating which meant they were good for ~3600lbs/tire @ 100psi. I basically > designed my whole suspension/truck to work with these, but then they were > discontinued and my local dealer sold out of them a couple weeks before I > was ready to buy. A period of intense despair followed. > > Then, I found the XZL by Michelin. > > Similar construction, and a wicked looking even more aggressive tread > pattern. Unfortunately, the advertising I was looking at was in Japan. > The local Michelin "Tactical" dealer told me that Michelin didn't make the > XZL's in an 8.25R16 size. NO, you just don't SELL them >:| Eventually, I > got John's number at Michelin North America. He also claimed Michelin > didn't make them. WRONG! > > They can get me 7.50R16s, which are basically a 31x8, 9.00R16s, which are > like 36x10s, and 11.00R16s, which I don't have specs for, but are probably > like 40x12s. The 9.00R16s go for roughly CA$370/tire (~US$250) and if I > had the necessary gearing/suspension I'd definitely go for it, BUT the > biggest I can go with right now is the 34" I'd designed for. > > It looks like I'm going to have to import a set of 8.25R16s myself. > Here's > where the international help angle comes in. I need to figure out where I > can get them from the cheapest--ie. which country has the best combination > of retail price/exchange rate/proximity to North America. Could everyone > outside North America get me a price from their local Michelin dealer? > The > best price I've got so far is roughly CA$250 a tire from Japan. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | > Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | > '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| Stop this stupit whining and get 9.00R16. ;-)) As far as my limited knowledge goes, those are 34" tall, and rather narrow. 34" I say, because I once heard that those numbers stand for rubber height, that is (2*7.50) + 16 would give you the diameter of the 7.50 R 16 tires and that calculates to 31". The 9.00R16 calculates to 34", which fits well into my memory of that the Volvo Lapplanders had 34" tires (9.00 16). BTW, just took a look at a 7.50 xzl, from under a Defender 130, just 15 minutes ago (talking about coincident). They had Poliester sidewalls (2 plyes), and steel tread, 3 plyes. Load rating was about 2.600 ibs @ 75 psi. Tread looked very simlar to that of our 14.5 R20 tires, just smaller, with single center blocks instead of the twin of the bigger brother. Very well spaced, should give more traction than most of those mudders. BTW, those Mich we got are made by Michelin and in Italia. Cheers, Runar. To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com From: Stefan Leiprecht Subject: AW: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:35:57 -0700 > -----UrsprM-|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Rob Mullen [SMTP:ramullen@wimsey.com] > Gesendet am: Dienstag, 5. Mai 1998 18:12 > An: DTLC@off-road.com > Betreff: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires > > I just got off the phone with John Lane at customer service at Michelin > North America. He's their main man for the "tactical" line of tires which > include the XCL, XZL, and XL. I've finally got confirmation that Michelin > North American can't get me what I really want--an 8.25R16 XZL. > > A bit of background. I got hooked on the 8.25R16 size by a tire that > Continental used to make. They were special in that they were "REAL" > truck > tires. Re-treadable, with steel belts in the sidewalls (whereas most just > have nylon/polyester) They were regrooveable which meant that you could > cut a custom tread pattern into them or sipe them and they'd remain DOT > legal! They amounted to a 34x9" tire. Their tread pattern was more > aggressive than a BFG, yet they were quieter. Their natural rubber tread > had superb grip yet wore like iron. The Continentals had a "G" load range > rating which meant they were good for ~3600lbs/tire @ 100psi. I basically > designed my whole suspension/truck to work with these, but then they were > discontinued and my local dealer sold out of them a couple weeks before I > was ready to buy. A period of intense despair followed. > > Then, I found the XZL by Michelin. > > Similar construction, and a wicked looking even more aggressive tread > pattern. Unfortunately, the advertising I was looking at was in Japan. > The local Michelin "Tactical" dealer told me that Michelin didn't make the > XZL's in an 8.25R16 size. NO, you just don't SELL them >:| Eventually, I > got John's number at Michelin North America. He also claimed Michelin > didn't make them. WRONG! > > They can get me 7.50R16s, which are basically a 31x8, 9.00R16s, which are > like 36x10s, and 11.00R16s, which I don't have specs for, but are probably > like 40x12s. The 9.00R16s go for roughly CA$370/tire (~US$250) and if I > had the necessary gearing/suspension I'd definitely go for it, BUT the > biggest I can go with right now is the 34" I'd designed for. > > It looks like I'm going to have to import a set of 8.25R16s myself. > Here's > where the international help angle comes in. I need to figure out where I > can get them from the cheapest--ie. which country has the best combination > of retail price/exchange rate/proximity to North America. Could everyone > outside North America get me a price from their local Michelin dealer? > The > best price I've got so far is roughly CA$250 a tire from Japan. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | > Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | > '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| hmmm, Continental is the oldest German tire manufacturer. in the old days (30s) they did have patents they licensed to US companies... anyway i was on the phone right now with their service department (+49 511 938 01) and they do have some 8.25R16 truck (here it means heavy truck) tires. the strange thing is that they have different ones for front and rear axles. for the rear they do have a pattern that they call 'traction pattern' but they told me it is not the regular military pattern they provide. since this is a older design tire they were not sure if they could print out the pattern pages and fax them to me. let's wait a while. BTW the 'traction pattern' is called RT4. the other patterns for 8.25R16s are somewhat regular heavy truck ones for road use. stefan To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com From: Stefan Leiprecht Subject: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 05:55:56 -0700 hi rob, today is tire-day! we have the company here who does winter/summer tire changes on our biz cars. so i have all the vouchers here with all telephone numbers of nearly all the tire folks in germany. so i have made a bunch of a calls. Michelin XZL 8.25R16 - no way in Germany. i mean everybody can deliver these tires BUT the best offer i've got was DEM 448 w/o sales tax (tax is 16% here). this is outrageous expensive!! i've got a fax from Continental with the 8.25R16 patterns. the RT4 looks more like something between a BFG AT and MT. very much like the one that is standard on Land Rovers. that's at least what it looks like here on the fax. there is a pattern that looks more agressive than the BFG MT but it's only available for 20" rims like the heavy trucks and UMOGs have. i could enlarge the fax and try to fax it to you. the list price of the 8.25R18 with the RT4 pattern is - fasten seat belts, fold up your tables and refrain from smoking - DEM 679,-!!! i would get it for DEM 465.-. prices include 16% tax. you could buy a lot of other tires for that prices. but if you're playing in the heavy truck game... for xhangerates you can go here http://www.dna.lth.se/cgi-bin/kurt/rates?DEM+ALL ciao stefan BJ75 camper Germany To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:10:10 +0300 From: Riku Paavola Subject: Re: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires At 09:11 AM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Then, I found the XZL by Michelin. > >Similar construction, and a wicked looking even more aggressive tread >pattern. Unfortunately, the advertising I was looking at was in Japan. >The local Michelin "Tactical" dealer told me that Michelin didn't make the >XZL's in an 8.25R16 size. NO, you just don't SELL them >:| Eventually, I >got John's number at Michelin North America. He also claimed Michelin >didn't make them. WRONG! > >They can get me 7.50R16s, which are basically a 31x8, 9.00R16s, which are >like 36x10s, and 11.00R16s, which I don't have specs for, but are probably >like 40x12s. The 9.00R16s go for roughly CA$370/tire (~US$250) and if I >had the necessary gearing/suspension I'd definitely go for it, BUT the >biggest I can go with right now is the 34" I'd designed for. > >It looks like I'm going to have to import a set of 8.25R16s myself. Here's >where the international help angle comes in. I need to figure out where I >can get them from the cheapest--ie. which country has the best combination >of retail price/exchange rate/proximity to North America. Could everyone >outside North America get me a price from their local Michelin dealer? The >best price I've got so far is roughly CA$250 a tire from Japan. > Hello Rob, My Michelin dealer could only find prices for a slightly smaller tyre, the Michelin XZL 7.5R16. They want 292 CA$ a piece. The one from Japan certainly sounds better. Cheers, Riku Paavola (rpaavola@.koivu.oulu.fi) 1981 HJ 60 (The Thing) with 298 000 km and a stock PTO winch Waiting for my TLCA number. Finland To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:44:27 -0700 From: Rob Mullen Subject: Re: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires At 10:10 AM 5/6/98 +0300, Riku Paavola wrote: >My Michelin dealer could only find prices for a slightly smaller tyre, the >Michelin XZL 7.5R16. They want 292 CA$ a piece. The one from Japan >certainly sounds better. Thanks! If the 7.50R16s are $292, the 8.25s would be outrageously expensive! ____________________________________________________________________ Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:06:29 -0700 From: Rob Mullen Subject: RE: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires At 05:54 PM 5/5/98 -0000, runars@isbank.is wrote: >As far as my limited knowledge goes, those are 34" tall, and rather >narrow. 34" I say, because I once heard that those numbers stand for >rubber height, that is (2*7.50) + 16 would give you the diameter of the >7.50 R 16 tires and that calculates to 31". The 9.00R16 calculates to >34", which fits well into my memory of that the Volvo Lapplanders had >34" tires (9.00 16). Actually, the unloaded static radius of a 9.00R16 is 34.9". The same for a 8.25R16 is 32.9". When I gave the approximate sizes, I was giving their equivalent "ratings" Pretty much everything but Swampers is smaller than its rated size. My current 235/85R16 Hankooks SHOULD be 32" by the numbers, but they're actually 30.8" In any case, the jump from my current 32s (really 30.8") to 36s (really 34.9) is just too much. I'd have to switch from my current low-lift 70 series OME to the full-lift 70 series OME, AND I'd definitely have to go to 4.88s (although running the 8.25s with 4.11s is kind of pushing it--I PROBABLY should go to 4.56s...) >BTW, just took a look at a 7.50 xzl, from under a Defender 130, just 15 >minutes ago (talking about coincident). They had Poliester sidewalls (2 >plyes), and steel tread, 3 plyes. Load rating was about 2.600 ibs @ 75 >psi. The 8.25R16s are rated at about 3200lbs--unfortunately, slightly lower than the Continental's 3600lbs. >Tread looked very simlar to that of our 14.5 R20 tires, just smaller, >with single center blocks instead of the twin of the bigger brother. >Very well spaced, should give more traction than most of those mudders. That's the one I'm looking for! ____________________________________________________________________ Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:16:07 -0700 From: Rob Mullen Subject: Re: AW: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires At 02:35 AM 5/6/98 -0700, Stefan Leiprecht wrote: >BTW the 'traction pattern' is called RT4. the other patterns for 8.25R16s >are somewhat regular heavy truck ones for road use. ARRRGH! Those are the magical tires! I saw the most recently installed Continentals yesterday on Bruce's wagon. He's probably put >15,000km on them in the last year and they don't look like they've worn AT ALL! Those things are AMAZING! >the list price of the 8.25R18 with the RT4 pattern is - fasten seat belts, >fold up your tables and refrain from smoking - DEM 679,-!!! i would get it >for DEM 465.-. prices include 16% tax. you could buy a lot of other tires >for that prices. but if you're playing in the heavy truck game... DM465 is basically CA$378. We used to get the Continentals for CA$250.. :( ____________________________________________________________________ Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com From: Stefan Leiprecht Subject: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:36:47 -0700 > Rob Mullen [SMTP:ramullen@wimsey.com] > He's probably put >15,000km on them in the last year and they don't look > like they've worn AT ALL! Those > things are AMAZING! [SL] we have a little smaller ones on our anytime overloaden 7.5ton truck (haules flower and plants from Netherlands to Munich) and after more thatn 100'000 kms they have not even lost half of their profile > DM465 is basically CA$378. We used to get the Continentals for CA$250.. > :( [SL] have you tried to call Continental US direct? they have one center in Detroit 248 615 4554. although i think they have ever produced the tires for NA within NA they might be able to get them from Continental Germany. since everything regarding cars is pretty much more expensive here compared to NA it might be cheaper have Conti US or Canada bring them over from Germany and sell them to you. maybe worth a try. and don't forget to tell them that Conti Germany definately has at least 6 tires on stock. at least i asked for a delivery of 6, they might have more. stefan BJ75 camper Germany BTW i made many photos of that HZJ 73 camper. they have the coolest exhaust system on a 73 i've ever seen. with that muffler stuff they're able to place a 200 litres diesel or water tank under the 73!!!! To: DTLC@off-road.com Reply-To: DTLC@unix.off-road.com Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:40:41 -0700 From: Rob Mullen Subject: Re: Need international HELP with Michelin Tires At 02:36 AM 5/7/98 -0700, Stefan Leiprecht wrote: > [SL] have you tried to call Continental US direct? they have one >center in Detroit 248 615 4554. although i think they have ever produced the >tires for NA within NA they might be able to get them from Continental >Germany. since everything regarding cars is pretty much more expensive here >compared to NA it might be cheaper have Conti US or Canada bring them over >from Germany and sell them to you. maybe worth a try. and don't forget to >tell them that Conti Germany definately has at least 6 tires on stock. at >least i asked for a delivery of 6, they might have more. I e-mailed Continental US, and the sales moron who answered my e-mail tried to tell me that Continental has NEVER made an 8.25R16 tire! IDIOT! > BTW i made many photos of that HZJ 73 camper. they have the coolest >exhaust system on a 73 i've ever seen. with that muffler stuff they're able >to place a 200 litres diesel or water tank under the 73!!!! Stop teasing me! Can you scan them in? ____________________________________________________________________ Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com Vancouver, B.C. Canada | Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers | '80 Toyota BJ40/2 Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!|