FROM: "Kerry L. Thalmann" SUBJECT: Re: 47mm Super Angulon Variations DATE: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:10:22 -0700 ORGANIZATION: Kerry's Large Format Homepage NEWSGROUPS: rec.photo.equipment.large-format John Stafford wrote: > Just how many variations of the Schneider 47mm Super Angulon are there? I > ask because I have a 47mm F5.6 SA which does not look like the F5.6 model I > see on Schneider's web page. Mine is on a Brooks Veriwide which seems to > suggest that it is an earlier lens, however all I've ever seen on Veriwides > (Brooks and the original) are the F8 versions. Hi John, I know of at least five distinct versions of the 47mm Super Angulon. First was the 47mm f8 super Angulon. Not exactly sure when this model was introduced, but the 90mm f8 SA debuted in the mid-1950s. Also, not sure when it was discontinued - probably early 1970s. I have never seen a multicoated 47mm f8 Super Angulon. Most were probably made in the 1960s. This is a tiny lens (#00 shutter, 40.5mm filter size, 160g) with 100 degree coverage (113mm image circle at f16). Next came the 47mm f5.6 Super Angulon (single coated version). Again, not sure of the exact into/discontinue dates on this model, but most were probably made from the early 1960s - mid 1970s. This lens was initially in a #00 shutter (not sure if the switch to a #0 shutter came before or after they started multicoating this particular model). It took 49mm filters and had 105 degree coverage (123mm image circle). Here's a quote from the Schneider website faq: "The Super-Angulons were multi-coated in the summer of 1978 beginning with the f/5.6 series. The f/8 lenses were multi-coated in late '78- early '79." I believe by this time, the 47mm f8, 65mm f8 and 75mm f8 had all been discontinued. I have never seen any of these lenses labeled with "multicoating". I have seen a 65mm f8 with a serial number in the mid-13 million range (it was black, not chrome and in a Copal #0 shutter). The serial number was definitely higher than 13,014,862 (the first multicoated Schneider LF lens - a 150mm Symmar-S), but it was not multicoated. So, it appears the only multicoated f8 Super Angulons were 90mm and longer (120mm, 165mm and 210mm). > Particular details: Not marked "multicoated", and the serial number has > spaces in it: "11 305 960". Definitely single coated from ~1969-70. This was followed by the 47mm f5.6 multicoated version (see quote above). As far as I can tell, there were no other design changes at this time. Same coverage specs, filter size, etc. I have only seen the multicoated version of this lens in #0 shutters (not the #00 the earlier single coated version is often seen in). According to the quote above, the multicoated f5.6 version debuted in the summer of 1978. Sometime, around 1990 (give or take a year or so), they changed the mechanical design of this lens to use 52mm filters. I presume this was done to alleviate vignetting when using this lens with filters. Again the dates are purely anecdotal. An earlier poster (p2macgahan@compuserve.com) mentioned he had a multicoated version with 49mm filter threads and serial number 14 269 xxx (dating from approximately 1988) and I have one with serial number 14 395 xxx that has the 52mm filter threads and dates from late 1990). So, the transition from 49mm to 52mm filter threads occurred sometime during this window. This version is still in current production and available new. Finally, the latest evolutionary change in the 47mm Super Angulon line is the f5.6 Super Angulon XL. This is a 120 degree design with 1 166mm image circle. This is the widest lens ever offered to completely cover the 4x5 format (even with a little room to spare for movements). It takes 67mm filters, comes in a #0 shutter and weighs 310g. If you haven't already found it, Schneider has the BEST (by FAR) web site of any large format lens manufacturer (Congo, of all people, has the second best web site of any large format lens manufacturer). In addition to full specs and MTF curves on all their current products, they also have the serial number/manufacturing date cross reference table, a faq (where the quote above came from), and vintage lens data on many long ago discontinued LF lens models (Symmar, Symmar-S, Angulon, Super Angulon, Xenotar, Xenar, Tele-Xenar, Tele- Arton) - note: I know several of these lens lines are still in current production (Super Angulon, Xenar, Tele-Arton) but many models within these lines have been discontinued. In any case, lots of great info for us lens fanatics at: http://www.schneideroptics.com/ Hope that helps, Kerry -- Kerry's Large Format Homepage http://largeformat.homepage.com Your online source for totally biased and opinionated large format equipment reviews and recommendations