To: landcruisers@birfield.com From: Herb Peyerl Subject: [LCML] why I think POR15 sucks. Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 16:15:48 -0600 Well, I've said it lots of times but I've decided to put some photographic evidence to back up my claims... http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/ From: "akraven" To: Subject: [LCML] RE Why I think POR15 sucks Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:33:44 -0800 I have to agree. My experience following the exact directions for prepping peeled off in layers in less than a year. akraven From: "Eric V" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] why I think POR15 sucks. Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:55:36 -0600 -----Original Message----- From: landcruisers-admin@birfield.com [mailto:landcruisers-admin@birfield.com] On Behalf Of Herb Peyerl Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 4:16 PM To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: [LCML] why I think POR15 sucks. > All things LCML: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > > Well, I've said it lots of times but I've decided to put some > photographic evidence to back up my claims... > > http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/ Herb, I've had good results on the types of uses you had there with Hammerite. I use it from the can and brush it on. It is about $10.00/quart which makes it a lot cheaper. Eric V. ginericfj80@yahoo.com TLCA 7328 ADIDALC www.nwcruisers.com www.tornadoalleycruisers.com 91 80 series stock for today Turbo Diesel Canidate???? From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] why I think POR15 sucks. Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 18:18:36 -0600 On Sun, May 11, 2003 at 05:55:36PM -0600, Eric V wrote: > I've had good results on the types of uses you had there with Hammerite. > I use it from the can and brush it on. It is about $10.00/quart which > makes it a lot cheaper. Can't get Hammerite here in Canada-eh? However, I'm been having good luck with Rustoleum and it's a lot cheaper than POR-15. I could probably use water-colours and get better rust protection than POR-15. After I took those pictures, I looked at the POR'd surfaces on my other truck, including the gas tank that's _inside_the_truck_ and it's peeling and rusting. I'm starting to wonder if POR-15 actually attracts and encourages rust. To: landcruisers@birfield.com From: gbrown@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: [LCML] RE Why I think POR15 sucks Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:37:15 GMT akraven wrote: > I have to agree. My experience following the exact directions for prepping > peeled off in layers in less than a year. akraven I also agree. For something that is advertised as the toughest paint that you can buy it peels off very easily. It's also way overpriced for what it is. On top of that unless you use their multi layer system (untried so I can't comment) you can't topcoat it or touch it up - with POR-15 or anything else. I often see people post things like "I am going to POR-15 the rusty bits on my tub and then put Rhino liner on top". I shudder when I think of the bed liner quietly peeling of the POR-15 which is in turn peeling off the rusty tub all out of site of the poor owner who thinks he/she has just cured their rust problem once and for all. Guy 1985 FJ40, Christchurch, NZ From: Bruce Loewen To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] Herb's bad POR15 WAS: floor panel- Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:52:59 -0600 All things LCML: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers Let me comment as a mostly impartial observer. Parts of Herb's truck look crappy! Almost everywhere that has por15 on it is getting nasty looking. Its been about 2 years since the refurbishment and it actually appears to me the POR15 treated parts have faired worse than parts of my own rig that just got a blast of rust paint right over the dirt. It seems to me that something has gone very wrong. It might have been the prep but Herb claims to have followed the directions closely. Some who defend the product may be in climates that aren't as harsh as Calgary has become. It seems the city has traded all the snowplows for salt spreaders. I just don't know but I'd sure like to find out. I find the whole problem curious and sad. I know Herb did a lot of good work to make a fine Land Cruiser and he deserved to be able to have it look good for a while. For the record, a year has gone by since we rebuilt a couple of BJ42s here in Calgary and we sandblasted as much as we could and then epoxy primed ($400/gal.) them and top coated with really cheap rust paint ($25/gal.). The paint has started to fade but the rust demons seem to be well at bay. That is encouraging. Cheers, Bruce Loewen From: "Steve" To: Subject: [LCML] rust Sender: landcruisers-admin@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Can someone give me a good step-by-step web site for minor to moderate rust spot repair (in the usual Landcruiser places of course.) Thanks, Steve McGavren 71 FJ40 San Ramon, CA steven4mcg@comcast.net From: "Robert Furman" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:21:47 -0700 Steve, Try POR15's Site. Not sure what's there, but I have always heard good things about there products: http://www.por15.com Rob From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:43:28 -0700 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 08:21:47AM -0700, Robert Furman wrote: > Try POR15's Site. Not sure what's there, but I have always heard good things > about there products: > > http://www.por15.com I always have to chime in whenever I see this. Lots of people have bad things to say about it. The emerging pattern is that the people who have good luck with it live in Aridzona and other similar climes whereas those who don't have good luck with it live in places like Canada or Alaska. http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/ --- Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! http://www.realweasel.com Subject: RE: [LCML] rust From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:05:29 -0500 > The emerging pattern is that the people > who have good luck with it live in Aridzona and other similar climes > whereas those who don't have good luck with it live in places like > Canada or Alaska. > > http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/ I live in NC and we get loads of humidity and if it's below 40 degrees an= d raining they cover everything with salt. I assure you, we're part of the = rust belt. I've used POR15 to patch holes, paint over rusty frame rails and have neve= r had a bad experience, other than getting it on my skin. I also splotched = it on my FJ60 driver's side fender where brake fluid leaks have eaten the p= aint off, with no prep other than a manual wire brush. That was done recent= ly, so I'm waiting to see the results of that. I've painted it over paint, = around 1997-98, which is strictly against what they advise for surface prep= , and that has not peeled or otherwised turned loose, or rusted, in at leas= t 6 years. It was clear but has turned yellowish due to UV exposure but rem= ained intact. I've used it on tow bars and receiver mounted bike racks, and= sliding those things in and out of reciever hitches is tough on paint. It = has never scratched off or rusted. Anyone who knows me knows what a cheapskate I am, and trust me I would no= t pay $6 each for those little cans if it did not work. I'm not sure what w= ould cause a bad experience such as yours Herb, but I'm pretty certain it's= not typical. No affiliation...yadda, yadda... Tym "apparantly Time Warner changed my IP address again, so the sig is useless.= .=2E" ;) From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:21:38 -0700 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 11:05:29AM -0500, Prillaman Tim wrote: > I've used POR15 to patch holes, paint over rusty frame rails > and have never had a bad experience, other than getting it on my > skin. I also splotched it on my FJ60 driver's side fender where > brake fluid leaks have eaten the paint off, with no prep other than That reminds me. I also spilled some brake fluid on one of my inner fenders without realizing it. A month later when I was under the hood next, I noticed all the POR15 was peeling off. Another thing that say it is immune to which it clearly is not. > which is strictly against what they advise for surface prep, and > that has not peeled or otherwised turned loose, or rusted, in at > least 6 years. It was clear but has turned yellowish due to UV > exposure but remained intact. I've used it on tow bars and receiver That's interesting. The POR15 that I have which is exposed to UV, didn't turn yellow, it turned a chalky white. I wonder if they don't sell real POR15 to Canadians... > Anyone who knows me knows what a cheapskate I am, and trust me I would = not pay $6 each for those little cans if it did not work. I'm not sure what= would cause a bad experience such as yours Herb, but I'm pretty certain it= 's not typical. Well, after I posted the URL last time, I received a surprising number of private messages from other individuals thanking me for expressing effectively identical experiences to what they've had and that they're also disgusted with the claims made of POR15. The only POR15 product I've had good luck with is the gas-tank sealant. It definitely does seal the inside of the tank. Unfortunately, I also painted the outside of the tank with POR15 after wire-wheeling it, wiping it with Dupont Phosphoric acid, then wiping with gunwash, and applying with a brush. Now that I'm reassembling my '72 FJ40 with said gas-tank, I noticed how badly rusted the exterior is already, even in the center under the seat where it's not subject to UV, or rain. Anyway, obviously everyone's mileage will vary on this. --- Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! http://www.realwease= l=2Ecom Subject: Re: [LCML] rust From: Dave Steelman To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:38:52 -0600 I'll chime in... My POR experience has been great. Granted, I don't live in Canada or Alaska, but we have our fair share of humidity here in Arkansas. I treated the entire undercarriage, engine compartment and frame of our Pig with POR and so far it is holding up beautifully. I did my best to follow the POR directions to the letter... lots of prep work. Everything had been sandblasted first, which apparently creates a surface that POR loves, so that may have something to do with how well my application has held up. The truck has been back on the road for about a year now and is seeing more and more use all the time. There are a few odds and ends underneath that I used Rustoleum "professional" rattle can gloss black on, so it will be interesting to see how it and POR hold up over time. My .02, YMMV Dave Steelman - '72 FJ55 - http://www.arkansasironpig.com From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:55:49 -0700 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:38:52AM -0600, Dave Steelman wrote: > the POR directions to the letter... lots of prep work. Everything had been > sandblasted first, which apparently creates a surface that POR loves, so > that may have something to do with how well my application has held up. These pictures on my page are of parts that were sandblasted, metal-prepped, gunwashed, and then brushed/sprayed with POR15: http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3025.jpg brushed http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3026.jpg sprayed http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3027.jpg brushed http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3028.jpg sprayed 2 coats in each case. Where sprayed, was thinned according to directions with the thinner they supply. The rest of the pictures on that site are of parts that were raw mild steel that was wire-wheeled and metal-prepped/washed before being brushed with POR15. So, I'm thinking that sandblasting vs. wire-wheeling is not a variable in this equation. As you can see, I've done almost every variation of prep with identical results. --- Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! http://www.realweasel.com From: Mark Subject: Re: [LCML] rust To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:02:30 -0800 Has anyone tried the LPS cold galvinize zinc primer? I just discovered it a month or two ago, used a can on my recent PS and new bumper to go with it, but nowhere near enough time to really test it. A guy at the parts store says he uses it on his boat trailer and it has been good so far. Mark J From: WesIntl@aol.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust To: landcruisers@birfield.com Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:09:24 EST In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:56:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, hpeyerl@beer.org writes: > So, I'm thinking that sandblasting vs. wire-wheeling is not a variable > in this equation. As you can see, I've done almost every variation > of prep with identical results. Herb, Have you tried zero rust? It'd be interesting to see how it holds up to your por standard in your climate. Wes 76 fj40 tlca 4180 Subject: RE: [LCML] rust From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:54:52 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: landcruisers-admin@birfield.com > [mailto:landcruisers-admin@birfield.com]On Behalf Of Herb Peyerl > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:56 AM > To: landcruisers@birfield.com > Subject: Re: [LCML] rust > > On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:38:52AM -0600, Dave Steelman wrote: > > the POR directions to the letter... lots of prep work. > Everything had been > > sandblasted first, which apparently creates a surface that > POR loves, so > > that may have something to do with how well my application > has held up. > > These pictures on my page are of parts that were sandblasted, > metal-prepped, > gunwashed, and then brushed/sprayed with POR15: > > http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3025.jpg brushed > http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3026.jpg sprayed > http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3027.jpg brushed > http://www.beer.org/por15sucks/thumb/640img_3028.jpg sprayed > > 2 coats in each case. Where sprayed, was thinned according to > directions with the thinner they supply. > > The rest of the pictures on that site are of parts that were > raw mild steel that was wire-wheeled and metal-prepped/washed > before being brushed with POR15. > > So, I'm thinking that sandblasting vs. wire-wheeling is not a variable > in this equation. As you can see, I've done almost every variation > of prep with identical results. The only difference I see Herb is where you mention "gun washing".. Is t= hat merely rinsing with steaming hot water or is there some kind of solutio= n? If it is a solution it may have adverse effects. The guys at Restomotive= told me, when I asked, that I should not wipe the surface down with a chem= ical solvent such as xylene or xylol (whichever it is) before painting as i= t would screw up the paint's adhesion. Tym From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:26:07 -0700 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 12:09:24PM -0500, WesIntl@aol.com wrote: > Have you tried zero rust? It'd be interesting to see how it holds up to your > por standard in your climate. My dad did his '53 Chev truck frame in Zero-Rust last year. I'm eager to see how it holds up. I've also been trying out some "PPG" industrial DTM stuff (534600?) that looks to be pretty robust. Brad might be able to tell us more about this stuff. --- Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! http://www.realweasel.com From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:28:12 -0700 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 12:54:52PM -0500, Prillaman Tim wrote: > The only difference I see Herb is where you mention "gun washing".. Is= > that merely rinsing with steaming hot water or is there some kind of solut= > ion? If it is a solution it may have adverse effects. The guys at Restomoti= > ve told me, when I asked, that I should not wipe the surface down with a ch= > emical solvent such as xylene or xylol (whichever it is) before painting as= > it would screw up the paint's adhesion. Well, when I ran out of 'Simple Green' or whatever that POR stuff was called, I switched to using 'gun wash' which is basically a paint thinner that you clear your paint gun with after spraying. I figure if it's good enough for cleaning paint guns, then it's probably fine for cleaning surfaces. You'd think if it adversely affected the adhesion of paint, then they wouldn't sell it to bodyshops for cleaning their equipment. At least that was my logic. --- Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! http://www.realwease= l=2Ecom Subject: RE: [LCML] rust From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:36:43 -0500 > You'd think if it adversely affected the adhesion > of paint, then they wouldn't sell it to bodyshops for cleaning their > equipment. At least that was my logic. > > --- > Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! > http://www.realweasel.com But you must remember POR15 is not "normal" paint. Xylene is fine as a pre-cleaner and even a thinner for most paints, but not POR. I just looked on the net... According to Akzo-Nobel's material safety data sheet, their gunwash is 30-60% xylene..... Tym To: landcruisers@birfield.com From: John Subject: RE: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:06:04 -0700 At 11:36 AM 3/8/04, you wrote: > But you must remember POR15 is not "normal" paint. Xylene is fine as a > pre-cleaner and even a thinner for most paints, but not POR. > > I just looked on the net... According to Akzo-Nobel's material safety > data sheet, their gunwash is 30-60% xylene..... > > >Tym > > > You'd think if it adversely affected the adhesion > > of paint, then they wouldn't sell it to bodyshops for cleaning their > > equipment. At least that was my logic. > > > > --- > > Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! > > http://www.realweasel.com Howdy! I have been using "Rust Treatment" from Permatex for years. Granted, I am in the dry, hot climate of the SW desert, but I have no complaints about it yet. I just sand, grind, wire wheel, sand blast, or whatever, then spray it right on. No special prep, and it is available at most auto parts stores, at about the same price as ball can paint. Follow the directions with first a very light coat, and then a heavier one a bit later. After it dries hard, you can use it to build up low spots, as it is pretty heavy and syrup-like after it is sprayed on. It leaves a matt finish with a little shine, but you can spray paint right over it. It says to pre-sand before painting over it, but I have been lazy and in a hurry, so I have painted right over it in 24 hours a couple of times, and it has survived over 6 years so far. I also sprayed it into the inside of the frame and into the seams between the frame and the crossmembers, and it flows in pretty good. After it dried, I just sanded off the places that it had run or dripped out at the bottom. I first did my son's 85 Toy mini truck frame with it and it still looks brand new. Marhyde ( Bondo, Inc.) also makes a nearly identical product, and I have got the same results with it, also. Very easy to use either one. JoHn Bricker 76 FJ-55 Safari Grade all around Phoenix, Az. From: "akraven8" To: Subject: [LCML] Re Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:16:34 -0900 My experience echos Herbs. I very carefully prepped an area according to directions including the metal wash etc and it peeled of in pieces within about 4-6 months. Very unimpressed! akraven From: "Steve" To: Subject: [LCML] Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:31:32 -0800 Thanks for all the good info. Very useful and educational. What I also need is a sep-by-step, how-to, on what to do with the holes after I abrade away the rust and have some empty holes to fill. Steve McGavren 71 FJ40 San Ramon, CA steven4mcg@comcast.net Subject: RE: [LCML] Rust From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:37:42 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: landcruisers-admin@birfield.com > [mailto:landcruisers-admin@birfield.com]On Behalf Of Steve > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:32 PM > To: landcruisers@birfield.com > Subject: [LCML] Rust > > Thanks for all the good info. Very useful and educational. > What I also need is a sep-by-step, how-to, on what to do with > the holes > after I abrade away the rust and have some empty holes to fill. > > Steve McGavren > 71 FJ40 > San Ramon, CA > steven4mcg@comcast.net > I know I'm starting to sound like a POR15 commercial, but they also make = a very hard body filler called POR-putty. I have used this alone to patch h= oles up to the size of a quarter (Not sure how large that is in Canadian cu= rrency ;) ). It dries really hard and supposedly will not absorb water and = crack like bondo. For larger holes, ones that I could stick my fist through= in my FJ40's tub I paint with POR15 and while the POR was still tacky I la= id fiberglass cloth over the hole and coated the entire patch with POR. A c= ouple of the out-of-the-way holes I left this way, on some in areas that we= re susceptible to impact and such I pulled a layer of POR putty over and th= ey are solid now. HTH, Tym From: "Steve" To: Subject: Re: [LCML] Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:51:02 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [LCML] Rust > I know I'm starting to sound like a POR15 commercial, but they also make a > very hard body filler called POR-putty. I have used this alone to patch > holes up to the size of a quarter (Not sure how large that is in Canadian > currency ;) ). It dries really hard and supposedly will not absorb water and > crack like bondo. For larger holes, ones that I could stick my fist through > in my FJ40's tub I paint with POR15 and while the POR was still tacky I laid > fiberglass cloth over the hole and coated the entire patch with POR. A > couple of the out-of-the-way holes I left this way, on some in areas that > were susceptible to impact and such I pulled a layer of POR putty over and > they are solid now. > > HTH, > Tym Bueno! Thanks Tym. Then there's the paint matching. Anyone know of any new/old methods of finding a spray paint color matching system? Steve McGavren 71 FJ40 San Ramon, CA steven4mcg@comcast.net From: "Peter Straub" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:54:11 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: landcruisers-admin@birfield.com > [mailto:landcruisers-admin@birfield.com]On Behalf Of Steve > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:32 PM > To: landcruisers@birfield.com > Subject: [LCML] Rust > > > LCML Homepage: http://www.birfield.com/mailman/listinfo/landcruisers > > Thanks for all the good info. Very useful and educational. > What I also need is a sep-by-step, how-to, on what to do with the holes > after I abrade away the rust and have some empty holes to fill. > > Steve McGavren > 71 FJ40 > San Ramon, CA > steven4mcg@comcast.net > Filling holes with anything other than steel is a commitment to re-do the project every 2-4 years. After you have an empty rust hole, cut it out into a convenient squarish piece, slice upa new piece of steel from some sheet metal, and weld it in. be sure to paint the back side when you're done. It's really not as bad as it sounds - From rusty hole to primer is probably about 2-3 hours - about what you would spend with putty/fibregalss. And then it's done for the next 15-20 years. From: Herb Peyerl To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: Re: [LCML] rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:01:11 -0700 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 01:36:43PM -0500, Prillaman Tim wrote: > But you must remember POR15 is not "normal" paint. Xylene is fine as a pre-cleaner and even a thinner for most paints, but not POR. > > I just looked on the net... According to Akzo-Nobel's material safety data sheet, their gunwash is 30-60% xylene..... It doesn't specifically say not to use a xylene containing product on their website. It does say "Use only POR15 cleaner/thinner" just like the "Dairyland Butter Cookbook" says to use only "Dairyland Butter" in their recipes. You'd think since this is a common practice, if it was a problem, they'd actually say something. --- Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! http://www.realweasel.com Subject: RE: [LCML] rust From: "Prillaman Tim" To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:10:08 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: landcruisers-admin@birfield.com > [mailto:landcruisers-admin@birfield.com]On Behalf Of Herb Peyerl > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:01 PM > To: landcruisers@birfield.com > Subject: Re: [LCML] rust > > It doesn't specifically say not to use a xylene containing product > on their website. It does say "Use only POR15 cleaner/thinner" just > like the "Dairyland Butter Cookbook" says to use only > "Dairyland Butter" > in their recipes. You'd think since this is a common practice, if it > was a problem, they'd actually say something. > > --- > Real PC Serial console & remote reset - The PC Weasel! > http://www.realweasel.com I agree, you'd think they'd have a "this don't work, don't do this" secti= on. I searched their site and not a mention of xylene. The reason I called = and asked was that when I Herculined my tub (BTW, herculiner does suck!) th= e kit recommended sanding/scuffing and then cleaning with xylene. Knowing t= hat I had patched and was gonna patch some more with POR I decided to call = to make sure. I'm known for doing stupid shhhh.... uh stuff causing myself = twice the work and aggravation. I'm either older and lazier or older and wi= ser... and I'm POR'd out for the day.... New topic... ;) Tym Subject: Re: [LCML] rust From: Dave Steelman To: Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:12:44 -0600 > From: Herb Peyerl > Subject: Re: [LCML] rust > > It doesn't specifically say not to use a xylene containing product > on their website. It does say "Use only POR15 cleaner/thinner" just > like the "Dairyland Butter Cookbook" says to use only "Dairyland Butter" > in their recipes. You'd think since this is a common practice, if it > was a problem, they'd actually say something. There's a great joke about flakey POR vs. flakey biscuits in there somewhere. :0) Dave Steelman - '72 FJ55 - http://www.arkansasironpig.com From: "Coolerman" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:02:35 -0500 -----Original Message----- > Thanks for all the good info. Very useful and educational. > What I also need is a sep-by-step, how-to, on what to do with the > holes after I abrade away the rust and have some empty holes to fill. > > Steve McGavren Steve there are many sites out there that have details on fixing the rust holes in your Cruiser. Jeff Zepps's site should soon have all his hard work on his body available (I hope as I need to learn some more!) Here are a few I found while looking. Mark Baker aka Coolerman !Oy my 2/71 FJ40 (not road legal yet) http://www.canadacruisers.com/process.htm http://members.aol.com/jeffzepp/ http://www.beer.org/buffy/reskin/ http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6963/fixn65/ http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/4091/ http://www.metalrehab.com/index.html http://www.chemistrystore.com/oxalic_acid.htm http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={90A5EC55-BF7 3-4B74-BFB2-499E492DF0C6}&inv=BB5A28DF1E1FF3C&userid={90A5EC55-BF73-4B 74-BFB2-499E492DF0C6}&inv=BB5A28DF1E1FF3C&albumid={21D42585-4872-4EE7- B6AB-625C7BC8D39E}&albumid={21D42585-4872-4EE7-B6AB-625C7BC8D39E} From: Jeff Zepp To: landcruisers@birfield.com Subject: RE: [LCML] Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:06:14 -0800 (PST) Mark Baker aka Coolerman wrote: >Steve there are many sites out there that have details on fixing the rust= >holes in your Cruiser. >Jeff Zepps's site should soon have all his hard work on his body available= >(I hope as I need to learn some more!) In addition to the links Mark posted, here's a good one of Rob Meredith res= kinning his 65: http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6963/fixn65/ I would add that I just picked up the prints from my latest roll of film. T= hese include rust removal from the floorboards, box section behind the floo= rboards, and cowl. They also include separating the box section from the fl= oorboards, and separating the cowl from the floorboards. A couple things I learned: (1) Don't try drilling out the spot welds with the final (5/16") bit initia= lly. It will take a VERY long time and your muscles will be sore and you'll= be using your drill doctor a lot. Instead, drill small hole (5/32") then m= edium (1/4") then final. This goes much faster! (2) Since you can never get all of the spot weld by drilling, use an air ha= mmer with chisel end to separate the panels. I was using a hammer and chise= l when I suddenly remembered I had the air hammer. Do'oh! (3) The tar undercoating can be burned off with a torch and then comes off = real easy with wirewheel. I am going to separate the box section so I can get at the inside. I will b= e cutting a cardboard template (advice from my body shop buddies) for locat= ing the body mount channel properly for the CCOT floorboard panel. This wil= l also include locations for holes/nuts. Happy cruisin'! Jeff Zepp From: "Steve" To: Subject: Re: [LCML] Rust Reply-To: landcruisers@birfield.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:46:10 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Coolerman" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [LCML] Rust > Steve there are many sites out there that have details on fixing the > rust holes in your Cruiser. > Jeff Zepps's site should soon have all his hard work on his body > available (I hope as I need to learn some more!) Here are a few I > found while looking. > Mark Baker aka Coolerman > !Oy my 2/71 FJ40 (not road legal yet) > > http://www.canadacruisers.com/process.htm > http://members.aol.com/jeffzepp/ > http://www.beer.org/buffy/reskin/ > http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6963/fixn65/ > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/4091/ > http://www.metalrehab.com/index.html > http://www.chemistrystore.com/oxalic_acid.htm > http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={90A5EC55-BF7 > 3-4B74-BFB2-499E492DF0C6}&inv=BB5A28DF1E1FF3C&userid={90A5EC55-BF73-4B > 74-BFB2-499E492DF0C6}&inv=BB5A28DF1E1FF3C&albumid={21D42585-4872-4EE7- > B6AB-625C7BC8D39E}&albumid={21D42585-4872-4EE7-B6AB-625C7BC8D39E} > Thanks Mark. I'll check them all out. Plus one can't go wrong with Jeff's stuff. Steve McGavren 71 FJ40 San Ramon, CA steven4mcg@comcast.net