From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Date sent: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:12:32 +0000 Subject: [80] oil intervals Copies to: dtlc@helios.net Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Dear gang, Before I forget, I read an interesting note on the latest Defender with 2.5L TDi....by using a 'cyclone oil filter', they have extended the engine oil interval to (sit down)....20,000km. Anyone know more about this technology? Sounds quite different than the usual bypass filters from the past.... And it defies the argument used against those bypass filters: you can filter all you want, but you can't revive the chemical properties of the oil.... Or would 'cycloning' get the submerged/bound-particles out that normal filters can't? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date sent: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:52:40 +0930 From: Ian Bragg To: dtlc@helios.net, 80sCOOL <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Subject: [80] Re: [DTLC] oil intervals Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > > Dear gang, > > Before I forget, I read an interesting note on the latest Defender > with 2.5L TDi....by using a 'cyclone oil filter', they have extended > the engine oil interval to (sit down)....20,000km. > > Anyone know more about this technology? > Sounds quite different than the usual bypass filters from the > past.... > And it defies the argument used against those bypass filters: you can > filter all you want, but you can't revive the chemical properties of > the oil.... > Or would 'cycloning' get the submerged/bound-particles out that normal > filters can't? > I don't know if it's related, but I have seen/been told that euro design engines pass less soot into the engine oil compared to Jap' designed diesels. From what I understand it basically comes down to piston crown design. The euro's are quite deeply dished compared to (in the extreme) the 1HZ that has basically a flat piston crown. The deeper dishing 'contains' the burnt mixture instead of allowing the soot generated to pass beside the piston. So, if you applied the same technology to a 1HZ, it would probably take the service intervals out to 10-15000km, I imagine. (I know the HZJ100 has 10000km oil intervals but I suspect that Toyota has decided that this is tolerable for the 1HZ rather than doing anything significant that allows it). Ian B From: "Berrima Diesel" To: <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Re: [DTLC] oil intervals Date sent: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:19:50 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Just to straighten things out a little, In-direct injection needs a flat piston for high compression. Every Euro motor I've seen in has a flat piston. Direct injection has the dish. Better diesel is their thing. With Regards, Andrew Leimroth Berrima Diesel Service Date sent: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:47:03 +1000 From: georgec@melbourne.sgi.com (George Couyant) Organization: SGI To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] [Non 80] oil intervals Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > Before I forget, I read an interesting note on the latest Defender > with 2.5L TDi....by using a 'cyclone oil filter', they have extended > the engine oil interval to (sit down)....20,000km. > > Anyone know more about this technology? This is fitted in addition to a conventional cartridge filter. Oil that has passed through the conventional filter is fed into a centrifugal pump through its central spindle and into the pump's cylindrical chamber. The oil then passes through two small opposed holes in the base of the chamber causing the chamber to spin at a high speed. The centrifugal force causes any particles (even small carbon particles that flow right through a conventional cartridge filter) in the oil to be flung into the outer chamber wall where they're captured by a gel like substance. The centrifuge is a replaceable cartridge which is replaced every 20,000km. The conventional filter is replaced every 60,000km. Don't know who's designed it, but I'd sure want to make sure it came from the BMW side of the company... Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/bios/george_couyant.html From: "Norm Needham" To: <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] [Non 80] oil intervals Date sent: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:08:42 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com From: George Couyant Date: Sunday, 16 May 1999 7:46 >Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > >> Before I forget, I read an interesting note on the latest Defender >> with 2.5L TDi....by using a 'cyclone oil filter', they have extended >> the engine oil interval to (sit down)....20,000km. >> >> Anyone know more about this technology? > >This is fitted in addition to a conventional cartridge filter. Oil that >has passed through the conventional filter is fed into a centrifugal >pump through its central spindle and into the pump's cylindrical >chamber. The oil then passes through two small opposed holes in the base >of the chamber causing the chamber to spin at a high speed. > >The centrifugal force causes any particles (even small carbon particles >that flow right through a conventional cartridge filter) in the oil to >be flung into the outer chamber wall where they're captured by a gel >like substance. > >The centrifuge is a replaceable cartridge which is replaced every >20,000km. The conventional filter is replaced every 60,000km. > >Don't know who's designed it, but I'd sure want to make sure it came >from the BMW side of the company... > GC, Some HJ47s snuck into Oz with a similar device from Toyota. Called a centrifugal filter, they were required to be cleaned at service time. What comes out is sort of a solid (and sometimes quite dense/hard) black carbon like substance. Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com From: "Berrima Diesel" To: <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] oil intervals Date sent: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:23:06 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Cyclone filters were on the earlier H or 2H for a short time. They sure filled up with some #@%%$ so I suppose if Rover have got a good combustion engine oppps I MEAN AN ENGINE THAT COMBUSTS CLEANER, then maybe a long drain will be possible. With Regards, Andrew Leimroth Berrima Diesel Service Date sent: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:42:02 -0600 From: Roger Loving To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] [Non 80] oil intervals Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com That centrifugal filter has been used in various forms by several companies. Interesting that you should mention BMW. They used this system mounted on the crank in their roller bearing motorcycle crankshafts for 30 plus years.. Also I remember that when the Honda motorcycles were first imported here in the early '60s they had a centrifugal filter that was mounted on its own internal engine shaft and spun by a chain off of some component of the engine. The crud that was built up on the sides of the filter had the consistency of reinforced cement. You couldn't wash it out; had to chip it clean. The crud was a grayish color....possibly due to aluminum mixed with oil particles and carbon. I used to worry about the carbon particles in the oil because I equated dark oil with worn out oil. After some years of observing this, I am of the opinion that I have never seen engine wear that I could attribute to carbon filled oil (dark oil). Roger Loving Date sent: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:38:13 +1000 (EST) To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: James Yatras Subject: RE: [80] Oil Spinners Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Greetings COOLítes Does anyone have any experience (industry or otherwise) with oil spinners ? I heard that Mange Mowers are going to be fitted with these devices to extend oil drain intervals to 20k. Whilst, that is not my objective, I would like to keep the crude out of the oil between changes to reduce wear. If you don't know what I'm talking about here is a url which has some info http://www.dieselproducts.com/spinner/spinner.html http://www.tfhudgins.com/spinner/diagram2.html Cheers James Y. (Brisbane 1HDT) [ note WJ: the above second URL exists no longer, only retrieveable through the Wayback-Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20020206155345/http://www.tfhudgins.com/spinner/diagram2.html or through their revised new site http://www.tfhudgins.com/division.cfm?page=util&id=2 & http://www.tfhudgins.com/division.cfm/3 ] From: "Norm Needham" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Oil Spinners Date sent: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:30:28 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: James Yatras >Does anyone have any experience (industry or otherwise) with oil spinners ? James, Toyota used them spasmodically for some time. Have seen a few on 2H engines. They certainly worked well at getting out soot etc. When cleaned, the stuff that comes out is very dark grey in colour and the consistency of heavy grey clay. Don't know Toyota's reason for discontinuing their use. Economies of production maybe? Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com