From: "Jon Witsell" To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Date sent: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:16:19 PST Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl >Yes, I read that article as well. I enjoyed the photographs, but found that the >author is a bit extreme in expenses for preview devices. He suggests purchasing >a night scope for previewing IR. This is not a bad idea, except that one runs >$1500 U.S.! I looked at a few night vision scopes on the net and was thinking of finding this one and testing it out: http://www.nightowloptics.com/products/nocx2.htm I think this can be purchased for about $250-300 It has a 18 degree field of view, which was the largest that I had found. Has anyone else tried a night vision scope for IR preview? Thanks, Jon Date sent: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:12:43 -0500 (EST) From: ADavidhazy Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) To: infrared@a1.nl Copies to: ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl > I think this can be purchased for about $250-300 > It has a 18 degree field of view, which was the largest that I had found. Has > anyone else tried a night vision scope for IR preview? I have, and am sure many on this list have, used a camcorder with IR filter removed as a IR preview device. Of course the Sony NightShot (sp?) system works quite well and instead of having just a IR scope you also have a recorder built in and a zoom lens, etc. BTW, night vision or IR vision ... they are not always the same thing. regards, Andrew o o 0 0 o . o Davidhazy, Imaging and Photo Tech \/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.rit.edu/~andpph __________| |_____________________________________ From: "Jon Witsell" To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:27:52 PST Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl >Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:12:43 -0500 (EST) >From: ADavidhazy >Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) ~snip~ >I have, and am sure many on this list have, used a camcorder with IR filter >removed as a IR preview device. Of course the Sony NightShot (sp?) system works >quite well and instead of having just a IR scope you also have a recorder built >in and a zoom lens, etc. Has anyone done this with any of the newer Sony camcorders? I would like to hear your experiences. Thanks! Jon Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:12:51 -0800 From: Foamb To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl > I have, and am sure many on this list have, used a camcorder with IR filter > removed as a IR preview device. Of course the Sony NightShot (sp?) system > works quite well and instead of having just a IR scope you also have a > recorder built in and a zoom lens, etc. > > BTW, night vision or IR vision ... they are not always the same thing.. I was going to use my camcorder, which is IR sensitive, but it's in color and I cannot get consistent results with it. My plan was to take my #87 filter to some sporting goods shops and start looking for a cheapo IR scope. The sony Night Shot sounds like a good alternative, though heavier. Has anyone used the Sony Night Shot with a 4X5 view camera to view through the ground glass? Chris Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:50:38 -0500 (EST) From: ADavidhazy Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) To: infrared@a1.nl Copies to: ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl > Has anyone used the Sony Night Shot with a 4X5 view camera to view > through the ground glass? Chris, I have in the past I think, but to make sure this worked well and it was not a total figment of my imagination I just went into my lab and set up the system. It worked like a charm. Focusing the IR image was a snap ... and it did call for a slight focus shift as expected! Andrew o o 0 0 o . o Davidhazy, Imaging and Photo Tech \/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.rit.edu/~andpph __________| |_____________________________________ From: "chaz quality72" To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:36:19 GMT Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Found this in the Infrared Mailinglist Archive http://www.pauck.de/archive/mailinglist/infrared/infrared.html It might help you. the best preview of the Wood effect is obtained by using a cheap night vision scope (1st Gen is fine) together with an opaque IR filter (and a lens with aperture to keep the scope from burning in). You'd be amazed about the effect! Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:41:48 -0800 From: Foamb To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl > I have in the past I think, but to make sure this worked well and it was not a > total figment of my imagination I just went into my lab and set up the system. > It worked like a charm. Focusing the IR image was a snap ... and it did call > for a slight focus shift as expected! Very nifty indeed. Can you actually see the focus correctly on the ground glass? That almost sounds too easy. I'm gonna have to start checking around for prices on one. Is there a recommended model? Chris Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:20:19 -0500 (EST) From: ADavidhazy Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) To: infrared@a1.nl Copies to: ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl > Very nifty indeed. Can you actually see the focus correctly on the > ground glass? That almost sounds too easy. I'm gonna have to start > checking around for prices on one. Is there a recommended model? Chris, Yes, it seems you can focus the camera ok but ... there are "problems". Since you are making an image formed on the groundglass there is a decided "hot spot" in the center of the frame. The size of this hot spot is to some extent controlled by the focal length setting. Once you fill the frame of the camcorder with the size of the groundglass then it becomes difficult to set the focus accurately (still easier than trying to do it visually, although you could easily achieve visual focus and then make a correction or use a small aperture). In any case, the camcorder by itself, when fitted with an IR filter will give you a general preview of the scene without having to look at the image formed on the groundglass (which is actually a pain to do anyway). Andrew o o 0 0 o . o Davidhazy, Imaging and Photo Tech \/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.rit.edu/~andpph __________| |_____________________________________ From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: infrared@a1.nl Date sent: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:43:29 +0100 Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl On 27 Feb 00 at 18:16, Jon Witsell wrote: > > >****************************************************************** > >Yes, I read that article as well. I enjoyed the photographs, but found that > >the author is a bit extreme in expenses for preview devices. He suggests > >purchasing a night scope for previewing IR. This is not a bad idea, except > >that one runs $1500 U.S.! > > I looked at a few night vision scopes on the net and was thinking of finding > this one and testing it out: > > http://www.nightowloptics.com/products/nocx2.htm > > I think this can be purchased for about $250-300 > > It has a 18 degree field of view, which was the largest that I had found. Has > anyone else tried a night vision scope for IR preview? I can get you one for US$175....in the past very complete, with an ordinary 58mm M42 lens that could be stopped down, but currently they only come in full-aparture models....but finding a cheap 50mm M42 lens should be easy, might cost less than US$10 in the garbage box on a second hand photo market (quality is hardly relevant, like film/video, optics are far less critical than for still photography on a much larger film frame). In the past, one advantage of these scopes over digicams was their size about 4x8x16cm, but digicams also get smaller and smaller. But, such a cheap scope in the outside pocket of your rucksack does give a whole lot more peace of mind....I did take one with me skiing that way, and took quite a few blows, without any padding....:-)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: infrared@a1.nl Date sent: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:48:00 +0100 Subject: Re: IR light meter (preview scope) Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl On 27 Feb 00 at 22:12, ADavidhazy wrote: > > I think this can be purchased for about $250-300 > > It has a 18 degree field of view, which was the largest that I had found. > > Has anyone else tried a night vision scope for IR preview? > > I have, and am sure many on this list have, used a camcorder with IR filter > removed as a IR preview device. Of course the Sony NightShot (sp?) system > works quite well and instead of having just a IR scope you also have a > recorder built in and a zoom lens, etc. > > BTW, night vision or IR vision ... they are not always the same thing. But when talking about night vision scopes, or better: light intensifiers/amplifyers, they all are IR-sensitive, regardless of 1st/2nd/3rd Generation. Yet you still need a visual block filter to make them see *only* IR (just like digicams). Btw, Gen 3 really blows your socks of with a very opaque filter....ask for the glass filters they use for heavy searchlights, those are darker than #87C (won't even show a dazzling bright bulb, something that #87C will). Very impressive....but also quite expensive (and hard to get in Europe....you need a license for those, unlike the USA). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "Ibrahim PAMUK (Ank,IH)" To: infrared-digest@a1.nl Subject: IR light meter (preview scope)Hi, Date sent: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:41:07 +0200 Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Hi, I need to find a preview decive also. The best reason might be not to wait what has been shot. Other than that the film is not cheap, HIE. It is also full of spots which Kodak does not pay any attention eventhough I have send samples. I have bought #89B and #87C previously from WJ. Later I have bought a Sony DCR-PC3 digicam which has the fonction to shot to a memory stick. Later you download to a PC. After than I have bought from WJ #87A. Outside you can use all of them to view the environment. I known that camcoder has a IR-block filter inside, but the view is good. When I shot inside the view is very very dark. I may process it later with PhotoShop but result is not very satisfactory. When I do these in nightshot, this time, the view is very very bright when outside. I need a ND type filter which works in IR. Inside it works mostly but the view is not very interesting. I also believe that with removing inside filter by using nightshot does not effect too much to have a preview. Regards, Ibrahim Info Holding A. . Holding Sitesi (Holding Web) http://www.info.com.tr Sanal Ma aza (Cyber mall) http://www.infoshop.com.tr Ki isel Site (Personel Web) http://zodiac.info.com.tr From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: infrared@a1.nl Date sent: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 01:07:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Preview device Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl On 23 Feb 00 at 20:13, chaz quality72 wrote: > Has anyone made an IR preview device? If so what IR lens did you use? > I put a Tiffen #87 on a night scope but, on clear days it is not enough > (scope shut down and I thought I "fried" it). Is there something I can > attach to control aperture or am I just going to have to use a darker filter > on clear days? Any suggestions? This 'too bright/shut down' feature is why I recommend the cheapest unit possible, with M42 lens....those can be stopped down (previous models came with an ordinary photo lens, current models only allow full-aperture, but finding an old M42 photo lens on a second hand photo market should be easy....a 50mm works fine). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: infrared@a1.nl Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:25:52 +0200 Subject: Re: Seeing IR, HIE vs EIR Reply-To: infrared@a1.nl On 13 Jul 2003 at 5:00, Sid Barras wrote: > > > ---------- > > From: Sid Barras > > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:59:07 -0500 > > To: > > Subject: Re: OT: Seeing IR > > > > > > > >> From: "dglenn@radix.net" > >> > >> Subject: OT: Seeing IR > >> This page describes what the author describes > >> seeing matches the results of shooting Kodak HIE > >> with a filter (except for the red tint to everything). > >> > >> -- Glenn > >> > > Whoaa! > > THIS IS something I will definitely try! I have been shooting IR for > > some time now, and have attempted various methods to "not so much" > > see IR, but to be able to predict it better. > > > > What better way to learn IR than to actually walk around and see it? > > > > My IR prints have become more and more successful over the years, > > and I've shot enough film to predict the effects on particular > > foliage and species under similar conditions, and seasons of the > > year. > > > > But-- I like the idea of "real time" IR motion pictures, even if it > > is not being recorded on film as I'm seeing it. A real, practical > > way to "do" IR. > > > > Thanks very much Glenn, for some valuable information. I hope you > > will post this info to the IR mailing / discussion group. > @a1.nl> If you don't plan on it, please allow me to do so. > > > > Regards, > > Sid Barras > > > > PS:I post occasionally to the IR list, and have been working on a > > system of exposuring IR film that is unique, unorthodox, and, best > > of all, successful. The addition of this pair of movie goggles could > > improve my photography 10x fold. > > > > http://amasci.com/amatuer/irgoggl.html I hate to tell you, but this is not really a new discovery....;)) I've posted about such threshold-filters in the past, but hardly anyone showed interest back then....;)) There are even two concepts/'colors' possible: 1) completely monochrome red, with already the dreamy fairy tale 'white' glow of foliage against a black sky, or 2) more subtle, leaving the visible colors somewhat intact, but also showing reddish foliage....the latter is a nice preview-filter for EIR, as it leaves the sky blue (instead of the reddish white/black effect of the monochrome filter) Available in gelatine & polyester, single sheet (don't think such multiple layers will hold well in moisture conditions and/or large temperature changes?....they are cheap enough to make a new set, of course) And, even older is the trick of using a night-vision tube plus a deep IR filter for preview....can be a dirt-cheap unit, Gen1 (Gen0 is actually based on IR-vision only, without any light amplification (hence requiring artificial light in the dark; all next generations have (increasingly stronger) light amplification). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]