Date sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:25:14 +0100 Subject: Happy Anniversary! From: Spearmint To: infrared@a1.nl Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Hullo folks! Apparently, yesterday, 7th October, was the 70th anniversary of the first infrared photograph!! Amazing the facts you find out on the radio at 5:00am! TTFN Gavin -- Repetition is a form of change ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Coolmint Designs. http://www.coolmint.co.uk From: David Gómez Lozano To: Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary! Date sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:48:30 +0200 Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Hi Gavin and rest of folks I guess your radio delays...3 years or more. If we must believe Luis Nadeau [Encyclopedia of Printing, Photographic and Photomechanical Processes. Fredericton (Canadá), 1989, page 132], the first IR film put in the market was Kodak's "Panchromatic K" (strange name for an IR emulsion, isn't it?), in 1.928. I wonder which is the oldest IR picture you know from. Mine is (are) from summer' 31, some aerial shots taken in Scotland. Any of you know of any other picture earlier than that? I am extremely interested in the point (in fact I'm trying my PhD on IR film). Any clues appreciated. And Gavin, remember: you can't always trust your radio (nor anybody) at 5:00am...;-) David Date sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:33:13 -0700 From: Josh Putnam To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary! Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl David Gómez Lozano writes: >I guess your radio delays...3 years or more. If we must believe Luis Nadeau >[Encyclopedia of Printing, Photographic and Photomechanical Processes. >Fredericton (Canadá), 1989, page 132], the first IR film put in the market was >Kodak's "Panchromatic K" (strange name for an IR emulsion, isn't it?), in >1.928. Gibson's _Photography by Infrared_ refers to laboratory infrared photography beginning in 1904 and work by Wood in 1910. The references cite: Wood, R.W., "Photography of invisible rays," _Phot. J_, 1910, 50, 329-338. In a figure charting the development of IR sensitizing dyes, Gibson indicates near-IR sensitization with kryptocyanine in 1919-1925, and IR sensitization with neocyanine in 1925-1931. >I wonder which is the oldest IR picture you know from. Mine is (are) from >summer' 31, some aerial shots taken in Scotland. Any of you know of any >other picture earlier than that? I am extremely interested in the point (in >fact I'm trying my PhD on IR film). Any clues appreciated. Gibson provides more than 80 pages of references, many of them from the early 1930s, some even earlier. If you're looking for historical sources, it would certainly be a good place to start. The third edition is ISBN 0 471 15895-X, the earlier two editions have most of the same references. -- josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam http://www.phred.org/~josh/ Updated Infrared Photography Books List: http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/irbooks.html From: David Gómez Lozano To: Subject: First IR in the market Date sent: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 19:21:53 +0200 Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Thank you Joshua. I knew from Gibson's book, even though I couldn't find a copy yet (any suggestions?). I have a [photo-]copy of the famous Clark's book, also with some examples of IR pictures, most of them undated. Some time ago, I heard of some (experimental?) IR film shot by the RAF during WWI [I guess it was Mr Graham Saxby who told me about it]. I suppose it could be common practice among German, French or American armies, but I don't have any evidence. And I still don't know of any IR product in the market before the one proposed by Nadeau (and even this one, I couldn't double-checked it with Kodak or the GEH: well, I suppose I didn't ring the right bell...) So my question is (again) does any of you out there know of any "commercial" (I mean, "not experimental") IR work before 1930? [PS: Sorry for my English] David Date sent: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:11:47 -0700 From: Josh Putnam To: infrared@a1.nl Subject: Re: First IR in the market Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl David Gómez Lozano writes: >I knew from Gibson's book, even though I couldn't find a copy yet (any >suggestions?). According to www.abebooks.com, Zubal Books in Cleveland, Ohio, has one copy in stock for US$120. Zubal is www.zubal.com >I have a [photo-]copy of the famous Clark's book, also with >some examples of IR pictures, most of them undated. Yes, unfortunately most of the photos in the book are not dated, but some of them are mentioned in the text with footnotes to the references section. Another reference that sounds like it might prove useful is: Barr, E.S., "Historical survey of the early development of the infrared spectral region," Am. J. Physics, 1960, 28, 42-54 >Some time ago, I heard of some (experimental?) IR film shot by the RAF >during WWI [I guess it was Mr Graham Saxby who told me about it]. I suppose it >could be common practice among German, French or American armies, but I don't >have any evidence. I don't know if you have already tried this, but you might want to look for histories of aerial photography rather than infrared photography. Aerial photography has a long enough hisory before the introduction of IR that there might be a better record of developments from that period. >And I still don't know of any IR product in the market before the one >proposed by Nadeau (and even this one, I couldn't double-checked it with >Kodak or the GEH: well, I suppose I didn't ring the right bell...) >So my question is (again) does any of you out there know of any >"commercial" (I mean, "not experimental") IR work before 1930? I don't know what year it was introduced, but Gibson mentions a 1931 photograph taken by Kodak Research Laboratories in 1931 on Eastman Infrared-Sensitive Plate Type I-R. That photo was the famous shot of a plaster bust illuminated only by electric flatirons. While that date is later than 1930, it also doesn't seem like the sort of photo that would be the first use of the plates, so they might have been out sooner. Perhaps with a specific product name, someone at Kodak could provide a bit more history? >[PS: Sorry for my English] No need to apologize, your English is far better than my Spanish. -- josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam http://www.phred.org/~josh/ Date sent: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:19:01 -0700 From: Josh Putnam To: infrared mailing list Subject: Another vintage reference from ABEbooks Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Not in my price range, but I noticed the following on ABEbooks while looking for a copy of Gibson's book: (Infra-red Photography) Bloch, Olaf Developments In Infra-Red Photography. Bournemouth: n.p. 1932 (First edition thus). Small thin quarto. Lettered wraps. Edges are faintly tanned. Wraps have a trace of wear and two faint horizontal creases from possible previous folding else very good. Previous owner's name has been typed on top corner of the front panel. A reprint from "The Photographic Journal" Vol. LXXII, August, 1932. Laid in are several items dealing with Infra-red photography all of which bear the name of the previous owner either written or typed on the top right hand corner of the front panel or page. These items include the following: 1)"Photography by Invisible Light. Infra-red Photography"a six page typed and corner stapled essay, folded once, possibly written by the previous owner, who possibly was employed at Eastman Kodak in Rochester, N.Y., 2) A one page typed sheet, also folded once, which gives the formulas for developer for Ilford infra-red plates and Eastman developer for infra-red plates and is dated 1933, 3) A reprint (and probably distributed by Ilford Limited of London) of an article from "The British Journal of Photography" and written by Bernard Alfieri, Jr., entitled "A Camera for Infra-Red Work" and 4) a brochure evidently published by Ilford Limited of London, entitled "Some Notes on Infra-Red Photography". A wonderful collection of several scarce items dealing with the science and art of infra-red photography.1932. Paper. Bookseller Inventory # 6498 Price: US$ 750.00 -- josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam http://www.phred.org/~josh/ Updated Infrared Photography Books List: http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/irbooks.html Date sent: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:10:26 +0100 To: infrared@a1.nl From: Andy Finney Subject: Early IR Photo - Bibliographs Corner Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Now I've at last managed to get copies of all three editions of Clark (thanks to Josh for 1/e) I can give some info about what is described as the first photo made in total darkness. It predates the bust and flat-irons photo and was made Babcock at Mount Wilson in 1930 and shows a few objects on a shelf including a bottle. It was made on a plate sensitised with Neocyanine and took 48 hours exposure at f2! The 'light' source was electric bar heaters run at a low voltage. Clark also refers to a photo of a group of men at Kodak taken on October 7th 1931 using filtered tungsten lamps and the bust photo which was taken in 1932. [pp 268 et seq Clark 1/e and pp 318 et seq in Clark 2/e] Clark 2/e mentions photographs made in 1924 by Wright at Lick Observatory as being the earliest to demonstrate haze penetration. These photos are on P 300 of Clark 2/e and opposite 254 in 1/e. 1/e also has a photo made by Wood in 1910 for his lectures to the Royal Photographic Society (opp P253). I couldn't find this image in 2/e. This is the earliest example I've seen which suggests we're not too far from the centenary of invisible light photography. Any 'advance' on 1910? Woods photos were taken with a specially sensitised film, using a panchromatic emulsion designed for red spectrography as the basis. At the end of the relevant chapter there is a reference to a paper by Wood, 'Photography by Invisible Rays' from the Journal of Photography for 1920 Vol 50 page 329-318. Next time I go to the British library I'll try to get a copy of this. Clark 3/e (by Gibson) doesn't seem to include any of this material. Regards Andy Finney Invisible Light @ www.atsf.co.uk/ilight Date sent: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:53:56 +0100 To: infrared@a1.nl From: Andy Finney Subject: Correction Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl My penultimate paragraph should have read '1910' and not '1920'. Apologies for the finger slip. It should read ... At the end of the relevant chapter there is a reference to a paper by Wood, 'Photography by Invisible Rays' from the Journal of Photography for 1910 Vol 50 page 329-318. Next time I go to the British library I'll try to get a copy of this. Andy