On 6 Oct 01 at 17:03, some member of the IR/EOS Mailinglist wrote: > Some messages are coming through dozens of times while mine > seem to get stuck and don't reach the list at all. > > Sorry for this test. > > Some Member Incoming messages are filtered in many ways; the current problem is that I can't send bounce-notifications/explanations anymore, at least not directly to the person involved (I used to be able to do that, but the format of these bounces changed recently, not allowing me a direct reply anymore....that's one other thing we hope to restore with the new version of Majordomo). See message below for the text of this bounce-notification/explanation: (as it says, I can still dig out the reason why it bounces, it's just not as easy as it used to be....check all listed possible causes first) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Listmember, Don't panick, this is just an automatic reply to the list posting you sent recently, notifying you that your messages was bounced/filtered. Please read this message carefully, especially when it is the first time you receive this. Your message was filtered/bounced from the list by Majordomo for one of the following reasons: [the only reason this error-message can be sent by *accident* is when you CC'd the message to both list and author/sender; in that case please ignore, all is fine, your message was most likely not bounced (but check actual messages from the list to be sure)] 1) Using 'Digest xxx' in the subject line 2) Sending the admin requests 's_ubscribe' or 'uns_ubscribe' in either subject header or body of the message 3) Message sent in MIME-format 4) Message sent in HTML-format 5) V-card attachment (=also MIME) 6) Binaries (including winmail.dat files (RichTextFormat)) 7) Too large size (>10k characters) 8) Posting from a different address/account than with which you are listed with Majordomo 9) Including the admin-footer of the original message in your reply. (applies only to EOS-list thusfar, not to IR) All this filtering is done to keep the list operating smoothly and efficiently, and more importantly: to prevent spam on the list. [Sorry, this automatic bounce-notification cannot distinguish between the various reasons why your message bounced (nor can I include your original message); however, if you really don't understand why it bounced, I can check my error-logs for the specific reason....don't hesitate asking me, I am not your enemy, just a listowner who wants to provide the best list possible....but some things have to be done automagically, including filtering and bounce-notifications....;))] ------ Explanations, Remedies & Solutions: ------- ad1) Change the subject header to a more meaningful topic ad2) Use 's_ubscribe' and/or 'uns_ubscribe' when you must use it in your message....this will avoid the filter. Real admin commands must be send to MAJORDOMO@A1.NL, not to the list or any other address. To s_ubscribe or uns_ubscribe via the web, you can also visit: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/eos_list.htm Or send email to.... MAJORDOMO@A1.NL ....with: s_ubscribe or uns_ubscribe (remove the '_' in this case of course) in the body of the message A message saying just 'help' (in the body, without the quotes) will give you a complete guide of all Majordomo commands. ad3-6) Check your mailer settings, and switch off your current HTML/MIME/V-card/RichTextFormat. For some help on changing these mailer settings, see a chapter on my homepage: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/mimecrap.htm ad6) If you really have binaries to share (pictures, tables etc), then please put them on a web-site, or send them by private mail to those interested. You can *not* send them through the list itself. ad7) If your message was too long, consider splitting it up in multiple pieces. ad8) ------- Only s_ubscribers can post, so you are either not s_ubscribed, or writing from a different account than with which you are listed as s_ubscriber [check also your From: line vs X-Sender: line in the original message]. The same can happen if you just shifted from realtime to digest mode, and were caught 'inbetween', being no list member at all for a short period of time. You also might have been uns_ubscribed due to multiple fatal errors/bounces from your account recently, during several days. Regardless of the cause, Majordomo won't allow non-member postings, to keep spam out. Please sent again from the correct account, or (re)s_ubscribe. In case you want to post from multiple accounts, but only receive mail on one of them, you can s_ubscribe to the 'eos-post' list (this will give 'posting rights' to these secondary accounts, without receiving mail as you do on your primary account). To do this, send: S_UBSCRIBE -POST to MAJORDOMO@A1.NL (again, remove '_' of course) (where is either EOS, INFRARED, PANORAMA or KOWA (last two not operating yet)) You can check the status of your current subscription by sending: WHO and/or WHO -DIGEST and/or WHO -POST to: MAJORDOMO@A1.NL Another way to check which lists you s_ubscribed to, is by sending: WHICH to: MAJORDOMO@A1.NL Note that contrary to popular belief, you *can* send the (un)s_ubscribe command from a different account than the one you want to have (un)s_ubscribed; simply send: (UN)S_UBSCRIBE or (UN)S_UBSCRIBE -DIGEST to MAJORDOMO@A1.NL (again, remove the '_'!) ad9) ------- Your message was filtered out by Majordomo because you quoted unnecessary text, in particular the admin-footer (on the bottom of every list message, with URL for list instructions). Since Majordomo also uses this check to prevent mail-loops (mail loops will cause multiple admin-footers, adding one every time the message is distributed), you *must* edit your replies, and not quote the entire message. Also note that these admin-footers are nearly always present when replying in the wrong order ('reply-first, quote last'), which on itself is quite inconvenient for other list members....see explanation I once posted to the Infrared list: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: infrared@a1.nl Date sent: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:31:13 +0000 Subject: Admin stuff (was: bulk film holders, IR safe? Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl Dear gang, Lately I notice that several members are putting the quoted text below the actual reply, which is not recommended. At first this might sound like silly nit-picking, but it is actual part of Netiquette, and for more than one (good) reason, all closely related to each other: 1) a longer thread with multiple messages/replies is very hard to read/edit in the reverse order of quote/reply 2) in the reverse order, you can't create a line-for-line (or alinea-for-alinea) reply, you will have to quote all, followed by a single alinea of reply....this is often neither efficient (unnecessary quoting), nor to the point, making things harder to read. 3) if you reply on top, there is a good chance you don't even notice how long the section is you quoted, since you hardly see it. Proof of that is often found in the inclusion of the admin-footer, which will then appear twice....to me, and many others, this is considered pretty sloppy behaviour. 4) while such sloppy quoting might not affect real-time readers much, it is a pest for the digest....one has to skip long irrelevant sections to get to the next message....again very inefficient. Some of you might still not see all this as a real problem, since the traffic on this list isn't very high, but please keep in mind that many members read several other mailinglists & newsgroups as well, and all these bits of unnecessary inefficiency add up to a considerable amount of wasted time & energy, sometimes even resulting in a message that gets no secondary reply at all (no matter how relevant or necessary that reply would be....the more editing needed to create a sensible reply, the lower the chance of getting one). So please stick to the most logical order, and keep quotes to a minimum, for reading & distribution efficiency. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Lastly, for those of you wanting to reply in the right order, but their mail-software preventing them from doing so (conveniently), see a chapter on my homepage about how to change these settings in some mail-clients: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/quot_ord.txt Another note about mail formats: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: eos@a1.nl Date sent: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 17:43:54 +0100 Subject: ADMIN: Notes on HTML/RTF (was: EOS test Copies to: infrared@a1.nl Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl [from EOS-list, CC'd to IR-list] On 28 Jun 02 at 21:13, Arvid Mestdagh wrote: > My messages don't get thtough although MIME is NOT selected FWIW/FYI: After playing a bit with XP and Outlook I can only state that this is the worst nightmare one can encounter in terms of RFT/HTML, ever. Even if you carefully select 'plain text' as default format, it only takes one copy&paste of an URL to revive all that RTF/HTML-crap back into the image, without any warning. By then the only way out is selecting Format->HTML followed by Format->Plain-Text. While if you set HTML as default, you only need the latter once....for the first URL that is....if you decide to add another one later, you are back at square one, and have to reformat twice....the mind boggles about so much stupidity....an ergonomic nightmare. Actually, on mailinglists that neatly cut-out the HTML-portion, I see this problem occur at an increasing frequency....but to add insult to injury, the cut-out includes the URL itself; so a brief forward of an URL results in an empty message with only some admin-comments like 'HTML-portions deleted'.... What an utterly unbelieveable crap. This means that with the next version of Majordomo, there is no use for this HTML-cutting, only a complete bounce will work (but hopefully *with* meaningful bounce-notice/explanation, unlike the current Majordomo, sadly)....otherwise such URL's will never make it to the list. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]