First: not all infrared films are equally sensitive to infrared light. Only the Kodak HIE Highspeed Infrared and the Ektachrome Infrared are sensible enough to be affected by this fogging. Konica 750 IR can be used without any problem; the new Ilford EXR-200 is claimed to have the same sensitivity as the Konica, and should therefore also work fine.

Second: even with both Kodak films: you won't fog the entire film, only 4mm on the bottom of the frame [note: the LED counter is on the top-right inside the camera, the image is taken upside-down].

Third: not all EOS cameras use the LED counter, below is a list of all cameras that have this LED, and the ones that have a mechanical sprocket: In chronological order:

Common name    	Different name in    LED counter    Mechanical
		 North America	      (* = yes)	     Sprocket
						     (X = yes)


650							X

620							X

750							X

850							X

600			630				X

1							X

RT							X

10			  -				X		
-			10S				X

700					*		X

1000			Rebel 				X
1000 F			Rebel S				X

100			Elan		*

1000 N			Rebel II			X
1000 FN			Rebel IIS 			X
1000 S (=FN, Japan only)    -				X

5			A2E		*
-			A2		*

500			Rebel XS	*
-			Rebel X		*

500N			Rebel G		*

KISS (=500, Japan only)	  -		*
5000			  -		?(probably)
888 (=5000, Asia only)	  -		?(probably)

1n							X
1n-HS							X
1n RS							X

50 			Elan II		*
50 E			Elan II E		*
55 E (Japan only)	  	  -		*

3					*

1V					*
1V-HS					*
(nonetheless 100% IR-proof according to Canon, see message further down this chapter!)

30			Elan 7E		*
33			Elan 7		*

3000			Rebel 2000	*
3000N

300					*

300V 			Rebel Ti  	*
(Kiss 5 in Japan)

Date sent:        Fri, 19 Apr 1996 13:03:18 +0800 (SST)
From:             "K.Lee" 
To:               eos@avocado.pc.Helsinki.FI
Subject:          Re: EOS & IR: please check this list!
Send reply to:    eos@avocado.pc.Helsinki.FI

On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Anthony Poon wrote:

> The 5000 and 888 are equivalent, 5000 is sold in UK but probably not in 
> the US. 888 is sold in Asia but not in Japan! (Strange?)

It's just a marketing thingy. When translated from Cantonese (very 
popular in Singapore and HK) ... '888' sounds like 'prosper-
 prosper-prosper' ... 	which I thot was a real smart marketing move  
when it came out i.e. it's like a good-luck charm to some more 
conservative Chinese.
Some people in this reigon sometimes pay thousands of 
dollars for car-plate no. with these 3 numbers and house numbers like 
this put a premium on the price of the property. 
Likewise, the surest way to consign a new Canon camera to doom would be 
to call it the EOS 444 ... or 'die-die-die'.

And believe it or not, traditional Chinese think 13 is a lucky number.

Just FYI.

Date sent:        Sat, 20 Apr 1996 11:26:15 +0800
To:               eos@avocado.pc.helsinki.fi
From:             "Francis T LIM." 
Subject:          Re: EOS & IR: please check this list!
Send reply to:    eos@avocado.pc.Helsinki.FI

At 13:03 19-04-1996 +0800, K.Lee wrote:
>It's just a marketing thingy. When translated from Cantonese (very 
>popular in Singapore and HK) ... '888' sounds like 'prosper-
> prosper-prosper' ... 	which I thot was a real smart marketing move  

In Hokkien (Fukkien) 888 sounds like 'insult-insult-insult'
so I guess they only are targetting the Cantonese market. :-)

>Likewise, the surest way to consign a new Canon camera to doom would be 
>to call it the EOS 444 ... or 'die-die-die'.

Which would be good for the Fukkienese and Mandarin markets
because 444 would be a 'yes-yes-yes' camera! :-) :-)
  *****************************************************************
  * LIM, Francis Tinseng.         Francis T Lim.       Singapore. *
  *                Internet: franlim@singnet.com.sg               *
  *****************************************************************

FROM: mr645@aol.com (Mr 645)
SUBJECT: Re: Shooting infared with EOS 1n & 1n RS possible??
DATE: 22 Mar 1998 01:20:26 GMT
ORGANIZATION: AOL http://www.aol.com

 (SCox222) wrote:
>Heard EOS 1n systems have some sort of infared DX code reading mechanism, so
>you can't use any infared film with these cameras because of high sensitivity
>of this film...
>Any knowledge out there on this subject?
>Scott

I have shot all infrared films in various EOS cameras.  The EOS-1 and 1n do not
have any IR sensors, while the ELan and A2 does.  I use the A2 adn Elan with
Kodak EIR and HIE and I get fogging ONLY ON THE TOP SPROCKET AREA.  Never does
the fogging effect the image area.  
   Go ahead, shoot away......

Jon

FROM: "Clyde Davidson" 
SUBJECT: Re: Shooting infared with EOS 1n & 1n RS possible??
DATE: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:25:10 -0600
ORGANIZATION: InterAccess Co., Chicago's Full Service Internet Provider

Mr 645 wrote in message <1998032201202600.UAA22559@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>I have shot all infrared films in various EOS cameras.  The EOS-1 and 1n do
>not have any IR sensors, while the ELan and A2 does.  I use the A2 adn Elan
>with Kodak EIR and HIE and I get fogging ONLY ON THE TOP SPROCKET AREA.  Never
>does the fogging effect the image area.
>   Go ahead, shoot away......
>
>Jon

Hum... I've shot HIE in my Rebel Xs and did get a tiny bit of IR exposure in
the image area. OK, it was only about 3 or 4 mm and not enought to worry
about. Actually, my viewfinder doesn't even see that part of the image
anyway. So, I ignore it and shoot away.

Clyde

From:             "Brian Fulgham" 
To:               INFRARED@A1.NL
Subject:          My first try
Date sent:        Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:20:15 PST
Send reply to:    infrared@a1.nl

It worked!  Its not so hard.  I followed the guidelines in the book I had 
for starting out. I loaded the film in my bathroom with a blanket over the
camera and film.  I shot the whole role at F11 125 shutter speed (around 2pm
sunny day) #25 red filter with a 50mm fixed lense. Unloaded the film the same
way, TAPED the lid shut (the photoplace always wants to take the film out of the
canister before even noticeing its Infrared, the guy did this when I was there
but realized it was taped on and that it was Infrared (lucky for me), so tape
it!) I would say about 30 of the 36 were exposed pretty close to perfect. I am
going to print them today and I can correct any under/over exposures myself. Got
some good ones of clouds and trees, it looks great in Infrared.  I've only seen
the negatives so far though. I was a bit worried because I heard the Canon EOS
Elan(my camera) has some problems with infrared.  The only area fogged is the
lower part of the negative where the teeth marks are.  There is maybe a 1mm area
that might be in the frame and its not as fogged as the area on the teeth marks.
 I dont mind this since I like to print the whole frame on the hollowed out
enlargers, with the whole negative, it gives it a more artsy look. The fogging
will look cool.  If you crop there wont be any visable at all.  Pretty damn
cool, now I need to buy a changing bag so I can do as many rolls as I want.

From:             Mr645@aol.com
Date sent:        Thu, 18 Nov 1999 00:41:56 EST
Subject:          Re: EOS fogging (Re: My first try)
To:               infrared@a1.nl
Send reply to:    infrared@a1.nl

For what it's worth, I have shot many rolls of HIE on two different EOS A2
bodies and an original EOS Elan.  Both cameras fog the sprocket area completly
where the film sensor is, BUT I have never had an image effected by this
fogging.  It goes right up to the edge of the image area but does not enter it. 
 I have been processing the film in regular Jobo Plastic tanks and there also I
have no fogging problems.  

Here is a link to  a sample of what the EOS cameras will do to Kodak HIE.

http://www.jonlayephotography.com/infrared/EOSinfrared/EOSinfrared.html

From:             "Eric Boutilier-Brown" 
To:               
Subject:          Re: EOS fogging (Re: My first try)
Date sent:        Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:18:44 -0400
Send reply to:    infrared@a1.nl

Hi,

The EOS fogging seems to vary from camera model to camera model - I tried it
with a Rebel 2000, with results here, http://ebb.ns.ca/eos_ir.htm, and I also
tried it with an EOS 3 - which was worse in some ways.

With the 3, the fogging was far less than with the 2000, but there was an
additional problem; the film back-plate has a small oval cut out of it on
the top right corner, which showed up on the image as a less dense section
(sorry, no sample yet). The 3 was totally useless for HIE, because of this.

e.

From:             "Willem-Jan Markerink" 
To:               infrared@a1.nl
Date sent:        Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:41:25 +0100
Subject:          EOS-1V IR-proof
Send reply to:    infrared@a1.nl

Interesting detail about the new EOS-1V pro body:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Film transport
--------------
The EOS 1V provides automatic film loading using a sprocketless system.
The camera is capable of continuous shooting at up to 10 frames per
seconds. This matches the shooting speed of the EOS 1N RS, but unlike
the RS the EOS 1V has a hinged reflex mirror which moves up and down
between each exposure (the RS uses a fixed semi-transparent pellicle
mirror). 
  One of the benefits of this improved performance is the reduction in
viewfinder blackout time from 140 milliseconds on the EOS 1N to 80
milliseconds on the EOS 1V. The film transport system inside the EOS 1V
uses an infrared sensor to control the frame advance. This system as
used on some other EOS models can fog part of the image area of the
film. On the new camera, the sprocket area of one edge of the film is
fogged, but a new optical system for the sensor prevents fogging of the
picture area. This means that all types of infrared film can be used
with the EOS 1V.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


--                 
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink


      The desire to understand 
is sometimes far less intelligent than
     the inability to understand



[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

From:             "Eric Boutilier-Brown" 
To:               
Subject:          RE: EOS 3, 300, 3000 and IR
Date sent:        Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:54:07 -0300
Send reply to:    infrared@a1.nl

> In a similar vein, my insurance company suggests that an EOS 3000 is the
> replacement for a dead EOS 1000.  Does this have the fogging LED?  what
> about the 300, the 3 (is there a 30?).

Hi,

Both the EOS 3 and the Rebel 2000 and 3000 use IR sensors for film advance - and
both fog significantly. Also, the EOS 3 has a hole in the backplate (though it
doesn't have a date feature)  which makes a serious density difference to the
images. Too bad as the 3 is a decent camera...not plastic on the inside - solid
feel to it.

e.

Eric Boutilier-Brown
Halifax, Nova Scotia

Evolving Beauty
http://www.ebb.ns.ca

From:             Jacob Newman 
Date sent:        Tue, 23 May 2000 21:58:31 GMT
Subject:          EOS cameras and IR film
To:               w.j.markerink@a1.nl
Send reply to:    jnewman@m72express.com

I thought I might share my experiences with Canon cameras and IR film.
I own a Rebel 2000 and and a Rebel II. The Rebel 2000's manual says 
not to use any kind of IR film. This is worthy advice, as the Rebel 
2000 will fog half the frame if you use IR film in it. The shots are 
unrecoverable.
The Rebel II, on the other hand, does not fog the film at all, not 
even in the sprocket holes. I have used EIR, HIE, and Ilford SFX in 
this camera without any problems.
Jacob Newman  

From:             "Julian Loke" 
To:               
Subject:          Re: EOS Re: Yet another IR safe question
Date sent:        Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:15:37 -0400
Send reply to:    eos@a1.nl

> "Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video"  wrote:
> Common name     Different name in    LED counter    Mechanical
>                   North America        (* = yes)      Sprocket
> ...               ...                                 (X = yes)
> 1000                    Rebel                           X
> 1000 F                  Rebel S                         X
> 100                     Elan            *
> 1000 N                  Rebel II        *
> 1000 FN                 Rebel IIS       *
> 1000 S (=FN, Japan only)  -             *

Hi Henry,

I wanted to point out that my EOS 1000FN (equivalent to REBEL SII)
has a mechanical sprocket counter.  I suspect that the EOS 1000N
(without the flash) was also the same.

Cheers
Julian Loke
P.S. Where did you get this information?

Date sent:        Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:46:45 -0800
To:               w.j.markerink@a1.nl
From:             "Neil K." 
Subject:          EOS IR page

  Hi, WJ

  I was just wondering if perhaps you could add a reciprocal link to 
  my page from yours:

  http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/eos&ir.htm

  http://www.teladesign.com/photo/eos-ir.html

  Perhaps just a little note at the end, maybe. Also, may I point out 
that the table on your site still incorrectly states that the Rebel 
II/1000N series camera has an optical sensor, as two of the letters 
on that page mention?

  Thanks!

  - Neil K.

-- 
  t e l a  computer consulting + design   *   Vancouver, BC, Canada
                    web: http://teladesign.com/

From:             gerard.maas@alcatel.be
Date sent:        Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:28:19 +0100
To:               "infrared@a1.nl" , Eos 
Subject:          Some EIR & EOS
Send reply to:    infrared@a1.nl

Hi all,

"IR Tulips" is a project I've been working on for a while.  I've have
scanned few results and I'd appreciate any comments you may have.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=192841

On the way I've learnt a few lessons that may be of interest:

1.- With my EOS cameras, there is some compensation required  for the
filters used.  The TTL metering is fooled with filters leaning to the
red side of the spectrum.

- for the Yellow#12 a -1/3 exposure compensation is required.
- for the Red#25   a  -1.5 EC is required.
and for the SFX filter (89b ??) - 7 stops compensation are needed to
produce a correct exposure with the value read through the filter.
( Departing from  a  base ISO of 250 for EIR, with the Yellow#12 I set
the ISO to 320, for the SFX filter, I needed to set ISO6400 and -2 EC
and have some luck  ;-)

2.- The metering of my EOS cameras (EOS50E and 30) behave the same with
filters.

3.- An extra conclusion from (1) is that the meter can "see" near-IR
through the filter (with the respective compensation).

4.- Don't use the mid-roll feature of your EOS camera with EIR. When you
load the film a second time, the fogging of the sprocket holes is
further spread into the frame area. Not big deal, since it didn't extend
beyond the limit of the slide frame but I didn't do it again. EIR film
started is EIR film ended.

5.- The IR sensor of the EOS30 is stronger that the one of the EOS50E.
It leaves a little peak where the film 'sits' to wait for an exposure
whereas the fogging of the EOS50E is linear.


Regards,

Gerard.
--

From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" 
To: infrared@a1.nl
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:40:25 +0100
Subject: Re: Re[2]: What Canon for HIE - What do you use ?
Reply-To: infrared@a1.nl

On 26 Mar 2003 at 20:38, Dieter Henkel wrote:

> Hello Willem-Jan,
> 
> Wednesday, March 26, 2003, 1:36:40 AM, you wrote:
> WJM> Though it's not a cheap solution, since you then also immediately
> WJM> start looking for true apo lenses, to overcome the focus problem
> WJM> (which is quite challenging at 200mm, not to mention adding a 2x
> WJM> converter....even with 12 ASA (#87C) and a handheld 400mm/f5.6,
> focus WJM> is a larger problem than blurring from a too low
> shutterspeed)
> 
> Which are true APO lenses (for Canon)?

In this focal range, none of the black ones I am afraid....not even 
sure about the smaller white ones like 300/4 and 400/5.6....the (-I 
think necessary-) fluorite elements are only included in the class of 
200/1.8, 300/2.8, 400/2.8, 500/4 and 600/4....
Which is one more reason for me to desire a 200/2.8 with image 
stabilisation....:))
(the zoom-IS'es are no good for me, they are too large to store 
upright in my PhotoTrekker, while the 200/2.8 does fit that way 
(barely))

I once even considered a Leitz 180/3.4 or 180/2.8 APO, with a 
Leica->EOS adapter, for this reason only.

Anyone have a confirmed list of high end EOS lenses which, per 
manual, state that no IR-correction is needed?
Not sure whether Canon service will like me if I order manual-copies 
for all these lenses....:))

(CC to EOS-list)
--                 
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

      The desire to understand 
is sometimes far less intelligent than
     the inability to understand


[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:53:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Helmut Faugel 
To: 
Subject: Re: Re[2]: What Canon for HIE - What do you use ?
Reply-To: infrared@a1.nl

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Dieter Henkel wrote:
> Wednesday, March 26, 2003, 1:36:40 AM, you wrote:
> WJM> Though it's not a cheap solution, since you then also immediately
> WJM> start looking for true apo lenses, to overcome the focus problem
> WJM> (which is quite challenging at 200mm, not to mention adding a 2x
> WJM> converter....even with 12 ASA (#87C) and a handheld 400mm/f5.6, focus
> WJM> is a larger problem than blurring from a too low shutterspeed)
>
> Which are true APO lenses (for Canon)?

The manual of the EOS 1n mentions following lenses:

EF 1:1.8 200 mm L USM
EF 1:2.8 300 mm L USM
EF 1:4.5 500 mm L USM
EF 1:4   600 mm L USM

This should be also the case for the following 'newer' lenses:

EF 1:2.8 400 mm L II USM

EF 1:2.8 300 mm L IS USM
EF 1:2.8 400 mm L IS USM
EF 1:4   500 mm L IS USM
EF 1:4   600 mm L IS USM

All these lenses do not need a focus correction for IR at 800 nm, and
the EF 1:2.8 400 mm L USM is not mentioned.

Maybe there are so other lenses which do not need any IR focus
correction(180 mm Macro?).


Helmut Faugel

Reply-To: 
From: "Antonis Karydis" 
To: 
Subject: EOS-3 with Kodak EIR 
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 18:43:56 +0200

Greetings to all.
EOS-3 is one of the most popular high-end cameras of the EOS range. It is
widely published that this model is not compatible with Infrared film,
mainly because of the film transport mechanism that uses an infrared beam to
control film advance and positioning and the existence of a rear film window
that spills infrared inside the film enclosure.

I have been shooting colour infrared since 1975 and since 1982 I use my
trusted Canon AE-1P. Feeling frustrated with not being able to exploit my
EOS system (with all the obvious advantages) for Infrared, I recently
decided to try Kodak EIR Colour Infrared transparency film on my EOS-3 and
check the results.

I did not mask the film window at the camera back. In addition, to make
things extreme, I loaded the film in subdued daylight but still, quite far
from the total darkness that Kodak dictates for this film. (I must say here that
I load all EIR films in subdued daylight on my AE-1P and never had any problem
with fogging).

I shot on a nice winter day, early in the afternoon, with cloudy sky but
still good daylight all around. The Canon 28-135 IS/USM lens was used. As
this was a trial situation, I did not pay any particular attention to
filtering. I manually set ISO at 380 (EIR is not DX-coded) and left the
EOS-3’s evaluative metering decide on exposure. I used auto-bracketing of
2/3 stops. The film was developed by the same Kodak lab in Athens that
develops all my EIR (and other) films.

I was pleasantly surprised by the results.

To start with, there was no fogging because of loading under subdued
daylight, just as it was with my AE-1P. If anything, less film was burnt in the
beginning of the film reel probably because the EOS-3 loading system is more
efficient and so much easier that the old AE-1P and allows faster film loading
(i.e. less exposure to light).

There was no evidence of any problem due to the rear film window. At least, none
that I could identify, by examining the slides under my loupe.

Most important though was the result concerning the effect on the film
created by the EOS-3 transport mechanism. Indeed, there was an obvious and
remarkable effect manifested as a thick line that run all the length of the
film, on its lower end (where the frame numbers are). Fortunately, as the
attached images confirm, at least on my own EOS-3, this effect does not come
close to the active image area and therefore the image itself is not affected.

Moreover, the bracketing resulted in groups of three images all of which, in
most cases were usable (taking into account the peculiarities of EIR). It now
seems that bracketing by a full stop will be more useful.

I did not try the camera with BW infrared, as I never use such film anyway
so I have no idea how the camera will behave.

Since these results, I purchased a B&W 099 Infracolour filter for my Canon
28-135 IS/USM lens, the basis of my colour IR photography and have since
shot more than five EIR films.None of them has exhibited any problem and
shots from these have already been printed, framed and also sent to
competitions.

In conclusion, it appears that my EOS-3 is more than capable to handle
shooting with Kodak EIR and this I am sure will be good news to many EOS-3
users. I am now constantly using the EOS3 for EIR work and my AE-1 has been
retired.

Code to the attached images:

Pic 1:            800x530pixel image, resized (to minimize file size for
mailing) from an original 4332x2870 scan at 2900PPI with a Nikon CoolScan IV
film scanner. This image shows the max aperture that the above scanner allows
for scanning and confirm that the actual image is not affected by the infrared
counter beam. The bright upper-right corner is a result of the “end-of-filter”
effect (the filter used, a Cokin graduated was smaller than it should!) and is
not related to the film/camera combination.

Pic 2: A quick-scan on a flatbed scanner of three frames from the film
(including the above #27). This is simply to make apparent the effect of the
transport system on the film (the thick line running along nthe film holes at
the bottom).

Pic 3. An enlargement of part of the above image. It shows clearly that the
burning effect does not come within the active frame area and therefore leaves
the image intact.

Pic 4-6
Images shot with the EOS and filtering from three separate EIR rolls of
film, following the above test.

Best regards
Antonis Karydis
ANALYSIS Systems Research High-Tech S.A. (ASR)
86 Argyroupoleos Str, Argyroupolis
Athens, 16451 Greece
Tel +30 210 9949093 FAX +30 210 9949096

From: "Robert Meyers" 
To: 
Subject: Color IR with EOS 3 or Elan 7E
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 03:22:47 -0800
Reply-To: eos@a1.nl

Hello all,

I was wondering if any of you had tried Color IR film on an EOS 3 or an Elan
7E?  I was wondering as I have heard different series fog the film in
different amounts.  Some seem to fog nearly non-existent amounts I hear.  I
have not however heard about these two cameras.  If anyone has any
information, please post it.

Thanks all!

Robert Meyers

PS- I am also looking for the same information for the Contax G1, though off
topic for this group, it would be very helpful.

From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" 
To: eos@a1.nl
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:13:36 +0100
Reply-To: eos@a1.nl

On 9 Feb 2004 at 3:22, Robert Meyers wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you had tried Color IR film on an EOS 3 or
> an Elan 7E?  I was wondering as I have heard different series fog the
> film in different amounts.  Some seem to fog nearly non-existent
> amounts I hear.  I have not however heard about these two cameras.  If
> anyone has any information, please post it.
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> Robert Meyers
> 
> PS- I am also looking for the same information for the Contax G1,
> though off topic for this group, it would be very helpful.

Hi Robert,

I almost confused you with long-time member Robert Meier, by asking 
whether you forgot my IR-website....but it seems you have a fresh 
road into the world of IR ahead of you....:))

http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/mainpage.htm

Or more specific:

http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/eos&ir.htm

http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/ir_conta.htm

Note that color-IR EIR is even less affected than b&w-IR HIE, since 
the latter lacks an anti-halation layer, which allows the light to 
'creep' further than with EIR.

--                 
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

      The desire to understand 
is sometimes far less intelligent than
     the inability to understand


[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:17:41 +0100
From: gerard.maas@alcatel.be
To: eos@a1.nl
Subject: Re: Color IR with EOS 3 or Elan 7E
Reply-To: eos@a1.nl

> Robert Meyers wrote:
>
>I was wondering if any of you had tried Color IR film on an EOS 3 or an Elan
>7E? 
>

Robert,

I used to take a lot of Kodak EIR on my EOS 30 and  I seldom had any 
problems with IR fogging . The fogging  was limited to the sproket holes 
and was completely hidden behind the slide mount. I once had a small 
visible red line but was from a film I had re-spooled and hence had 
passed twice through the malefic IR leds :-)
I also had the best results using a deep yellow or orange filter and 
bracketing around EI320, mtering through the filter. This film tends to 
blow highlights *really* easy.

EIR is just great. Just don't buy any from Rolland Elliot. He took my 
money and I never saw any film.
((There's a recent book on color IR photography and he's mentioned as 
one of the sources for CIR film. He was also active on the IR list))

-regards,

Gerard.

If you have any question, remark, comment, want to share some philosophy or just want to express your opinion about these pages, feel free to send email to: w.j.markerink @ a1.nl