http://www.mcfly.org/en/Cetane_number From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:06:29 +0100 Subject: [DTLC] Aral SuperDiesel, Cetan# 55 instead of 51 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Sorry for the German text, haven't checked for English on their site....3dB less noise at -10C.... Does anyone know the Cetan#'s of other fuels, like kerosene and several types of jet-fuel? Or very bad diesel?....what's the lower limit anyway? http://www.aral.de xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Aral hat leisesten Diesel der Welt Innovativer Kraftstoff verringert Diesel-Geräusche - weltweit höchste Cetanzahl sorgt für exzellente Zündwilligkeit "Leise dieseln im Schnee", heißt es im Winter mit dem Aral SuperDiesel. Aral SuperDiesel lässt Dieselmotoren leiser laufen denn je. Das merkt man besonders in der kalten Jahreszeit. Dank seiner Zusatzstoffe (Additive) ist der Kraftstoff zündwilliger als andere Dieselkraftstoffe und verbrennt deshalb leiser. Bei Minus 10 Grad Celsius senkt sich der Geräuschpegel während des Kaltstartes um bis zu 3 Dezibel (dB). Ausschlaggebend für den Akustik-Fortschritt der Aral-Diesel-Qualität ist eine deutliche Erhöhung der Cetanzahl. Sie ist das Maß für die Zündwilligkeit des Dieselkraftstoffs. Als Faustformel gilt: Je höher die Cetanzahl, desto eher entzündet sich der Dieselkraftstoff selbst, der Druckanstieg im Zylinder verläuft weniger abrupt, die Verbrennung ist "weicher" und somit auch leiser. Der Aral-Kraftstoff weist das weltweit höchste garantierte Cetanzahlniveau von mind. 55 auf. Somit erfüllt Aral als einzige Mineralölgesellschaft die Anforderungen der Vereinigung der weltweiten Automobilhersteller. Die derzeit vom Gesetzgeber geforderte Mindest-Cetanzahl beträgt nur 51 Cetan (EU-Norm). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: FoxSP@health.missouri.edu To: Subject: [DTLC] Aral SuperDiesel, Cetan# 55 instead of 51 Date sent: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:58:49 -0600 Send reply to: dtlc@helios.net Hey, Willem-Jan I think the diesel in the States is typically 40-43 cetane, when the manufacturers would like to see you run 45, mostly for starting. I think we'd be ecstatic to get 51, much less 55. For those wondering what this has to do with anything...cetane is the measure of the "ignitability" of diesel fuel. Diesels make so much noise primary due to one reason...the time lag between the start of injection and the actual ignition of the fuel. The longer the lag, the more fuel gets injected BEFORE ignition happens (since injection happens at a fixed rate determined by the pump). Once the ignition happens, the unburnt fuel sitting in the combustion chamber at that time all burns very quickly (and not real efficiently), so the more fuel there is sitting there at the time the bigger the bang, more noise. This lag is affected by the combustion chamber shape, compression ratio, air temperature, and pump (injection) timing...but also by cetane. The quicker you get the fire lit (the SMALLER the injection lag), the quieter you run (and there are effects on emissions and power). So, more cetane equals quieter running, less advance is needed, starts easier, makes more power. Also the reason common-rail injection is quieter...the electronic control of the injectors (very much like the injectors on a port fuel injected gas motor) allows you to squirt a bit of fuel in, wait for it to get lit, them dump the rest of the fuel in once the fire's going. Also happens this way in pre-chamber injection, as the pre-chamber acts as the injector and spark-plug for the larger combustion chamber, that's why they're quieter. If I've miss-stated any of this, blame Google...nearly everything I know about diesels is "web-learning" :-) Here's Google's translation of WJ's quote: Aral has quietest Diesel of the world innovative fuel reduces Diesel noises - world-wide highest Cetanzahl provides for exzellente ignitability "quiet Diesels in the snow", is called it in the winter with the Aral super-Diesel. Aral super-Diesel lets diesel engines run more quietly ever. One particularly notices that in the cold season. Owing to its additives (additives) the fuel is ignitionmore willing than other Diesel fuels and burns therefore more quietly. With minus the noise level lowers itself 10 degrees Celsius during cold star width unit over up to 3 decibel (railways). For the acoustic progress of the Aral Diesel quality a clear increase of the Cetanzahl is decisive. It is the measure for the ignitability of the Diesel fuel. As guide is considered: The more highly the Cetanzahl, the rather catches fire the Diesel fuel, the increase of pressure in the cylinder runs less abruptly, the burn is more softly "and thus also quieter". The Aral fuel exhibits the wo! rld-wide highest guaranteed Cetanzahlniveau of at least 55. Thus Aral fulfills the requirements of the combination of the world-wide car manufacturers as only petroleum company. The Mindest Cetanzahl demanded at present by the legislator amounts to only 51 Cetan (European Union standard). Steve Fox Tornado Alley Cruisers Columbia, MO the Sherpa: '85 FJ60, H55F, NP203 doubler, OME, ARB bars, 33x12.50 MT/R's, 2" body lift, body work by "Rocky" Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 09:12:25 -0600 From: Brad Taylor Subject: Re: [DTLC] 2 stroke oil in diesel To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net -----Original Message----- From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net] On Behalf Of J. Thomas Bentzen Sent: June 1, 2003 1:27 AM To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 2 stroke oil in diesel > Brad, Im trying to understand all of this. I've got a 2001 VW TDI > Jetta, > a '87 turbo diesel land cruiser, and a 1987 suzuki samurai with a toyota > 2L 2.4 liter diesel in her. I add (and have sence new) 5 ozs of Amsoil > cetane boost, amsoil diesel additive, amsoil pure synthetic injector oil > to every tank! I'm hoping that the injector oil lubricates the pump! I > feel that the cetane and additive do their work too! It'e the injector > oil that Im worried about! I NEED a lubricant! > > Any help with this would be appreciated! Well, for the record I am not an expert but this is what I have found. Most diesel fuel has a cetane index around 45. (from my testing, kind of.) US law states it has to be above 40 (that's good enough), I don't know about in Canada. The optimum (any more and it doesn't matter) is around 50. This is more important for older, tired diesels that have lower compression and need a little help getting full burn. I always have some and use it on occasion, but not with every tank. The Amsoil diesel additive should be giving you all the lubricity that you need. However, I know nothing about it and do not know anyone that uses it. As for the 2 cycle oil, In the Toyota engines I don't think it would be a problem but if the additive is doing its job, it is probably not needed. Older engines have larger tolerances in the injection system and can usually handle 2 cycle oil or ATF. On newer engines, with tighter tolerances and better designs in the injector pumps, I am told it is not needed if you are running a quality additive. It is even suggested that 2 cycle oil or ATF may be detrimental to modern injection systems that run at very high pressures. (20000psi on my duramax) I have no "proof" of this. For myself, I have tried to do right for my Duramax (and TLC) by collecting empirical data to make the best choices for the longevity of my engine. It is a hard subject to find good info on, especially on the internet. There is so much BS to sort through. It is like trying to have a discussion on what's the better truck, Toyota-Sami-Jeep. Personal opinions, not facts, tend to get in the way on a lot of these subjects. Just take a look at the BJ60 towing thread. I guess it comes down to what is best for your vehicles. HTH Cheers Brad Taylor BJ40/42 Chev Crew Cab Duramax Saskatoon SK, Canada From: "Jonathan M. Rundlett" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] was [summary] kerosene to lessen diesel smoke? Now #1 vs. #2 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net >From: "Jeff Zepp" >To further add to this discussion, there is diesel #1 and diesel #2. Most >all the filling stations around the United States sell #2. When I first >came >across #1, I asked the filling station attendant what the difference was, >other than #1 being more expensive. The reply was that #1 is lighter and >reduces smoke, burns hotter, but gives no better mileage. > >I tried it, added 3/4 tank to the 1/4 tank that I had. My experience is >that, in a 1HZ at least, it does reduce smoke, especially at high >elevations, above 10,000 feet. It has reduced power, and *seemed* to >increase temperature as measured by the stock coolant gauge under similar >conditions driven with diesel #2. It reduced mileage from about 17 MPUSG to >around 15. I will not use it again, but it did reduce smoke at high >elevations. I suspect that long term it will increase wear and reduce >longevity. And diesel #3, too, but I don't think you can get that anywhere anymore. #1 has roughly 20k fewer BTUs/gal than #2, IIRC. Hence the drop in mileage and power. It also has slightly lowered lubricity, due to there being less paraffin base. In the US, you can get mixed #1 and #2. Straight #1 is for really cold weather, where cloud-point depressants aren't effective any more. I don't have any actual specs to back that up, though. Running straight #1 could lead to excessive black smoke on a mechanical/hydraulic engine, due to having your foot in it much more than with #2 to make up for the decrease in power. HEUI, EUI and Unit pump motors won't let you over fuel, so black smoke from one of these motors would be an indication of a problem. -- Jonathan M. Rundlett Phoenix, AZ, USA TLCA Member #11004 1983 FJ-60, blue, stock, "Rhino II"