Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:31:45 -0600 From: Brad Taylor Subject: Re: [DTLC] 2 stroke oil in diesel To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net -----Original Message----- From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net] On Behalf Of pvalchev@sightly.net Sent: May 31, 2003 8:19 PM To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 2 stroke oil in diesel >> I did fuel analysis before and after with the additive. It completely >> removed my free water (diesel always has water in it) >> > > I am wondering though, when the water is emulsified, does that really > mean it does not do any damage? And in that form, I assume it will > bypass the water separator? Isn't it better to just leave the > separator to do it's job? > > I'm probably missing something here?? Peter, From the reading I have done this is like the Chevy vs Ford debate. (Well not really, I drive a chevy) You have to take the info and draw your own conclusions. Diesels water saturation point is around 60ppm at 70F, anything above this you get free water. If you are running a high quality fuel filter with aquabloc or similar synthetic material, it may be capable of removing most "free water" but not water that is saturated in diesel. My before and after fuel filter results on my Duramax showed water levels of 66ppm pre filter and 66ppm post filter. I took this as my water separator was not doing its job or it was full. I drained my filter and found two pea size water droplets in about 1L of fuel. After some investigation, I concluded that no filter is going to remove saturated water. I also concluded that I would need 2/3 of a cup of water in my Duramax filter for the Water In Fuel light to come on. This is not acceptable. The simple vibration of the truck will ensure water will pass into the injection system. This is NOT good. How often has a WIF light come on in your cruiser? I turned to additives. It is my understanding that an emulsifier chemically locks the free and saturated water in diesel fuel by surrounding it with a lubricant on a molecular level. Hence, when I did a future fuel analysis after running additives, we found no water in the fuel. If you want to do a neat experiment, take an ounce of fuel and an ounce of water and try to mix them together. It won't happen. Then add an ounce of diesel additive that emulsifies water. Kinda cool. If you can find a water in fuel test kit (sometimes available at big truck stops or bulk fuel distributors) tell us what you find;-) I'll betcha it's not water!! Further more, I added a 2 micron absolute filter to the truck post OEM filter to ensure I was receiving clean fuel at the injection pump. I have also done fuel analysis (particle size) with the dual filter set up with favorable results. The two worst things for your diesel are water and dirt. Cheers Brad Taylor BJ40/42 Chev Crew Cab Duramax Saskatoon SK, Canada From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net, huntitup@sasktel.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 2 stroke oil in diesel Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:42:04 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net >From: Brad Taylor > >As for the 2 cycle oil, In the Toyota engines I don't think it would be >a problem but if the additive is doing its job, it is probably not >needed. Older engines have larger tolerances in the injection system >and can usually handle 2 cycle oil or ATF. > >On newer engines, with tighter tolerances and better designs in the >injector pumps, I am told it is not needed if you are running a quality >additive. It is even suggested that 2 cycle oil or ATF may be >detrimental to modern injection systems that run at very high pressures. >(20000psi on my duramax) I have no "proof" of this. > >For myself, I have tried to do right for my Duramax (and TLC) by >collecting empirical data to make the best choices for the longevity of >my engine. It is a hard subject to find good info on, especially on the >internet. There is so much BS to sort through. It is like trying to >have a discussion on what's the better truck, Toyota-Sami-Jeep. >Personal opinions, not facts, tend to get in the way on a lot of these >subjects. Just take a look at the BJ60 towing thread. I guess it comes >down to what is best for your vehicles. > >HTH > >Cheers > >Brad Taylor I don't know if Willem-Jan posted this link to this list or not, but here it is. I know this thread is about fuel additiives, not engine oil, but if you go to this link, then scroll to the bottom, there are some additional links that reference a Caltex article. This is very interesting reading for anyone who owns a Japanese-designed diesel engine, and why I've posted it again here. Now having said that, I would guess that a lot of what's in that article would apply more to the later Toyota diesels rather than the older 2H and 3B lines, but I'm not sure. I think that adding 2-cycle oil or ATF might be particularly dangerous to the Japanese-designed engines, if you read the Caltex article you'll understand why. I really think it would be best to add diesel additives to diesel fuel. Yes, the 2-stroke oil is probably great for lubricating the injection pump, but it might be a problem for the cylinders, as explained in the article. http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend_oil-analysis-scam.htm Just an FYI, enjoy Dana Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:31:23 -0600 From: Brad Taylor Subject: Re: [DTLC] 2 stroke oil in diesel To: "'Dana Adams'" , dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Good reading and it makes a lot of sense. I never thought of the carbon build up and polishing of the cylinder walls with the ATF or 2 cycle oil in relationship to the rings. I would think it may be better to lube the older 3B and 2H injection pump then to run on the dry diesel of today. I just don't think 2 cycle oil or ATF is the way to do it. BTW my Duramax is an Isuzu engine. (supposedly of Japanese design) Cheers Brad Taylor BJ40/42 Chev Crew Cab Duramax Saskatoon SK, Canada http://www.sbg-delft.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=739 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Aceton in de tank toe te voegen. benzine motoren en diesel Ga naar Pagina 1, 2 Volgende Plaats nieuw bericht Plaats Reactie SBG-Delft Forum Forum Index -> Algemene berichten Vorige onderwerp :: Volgende onderwerp Auteur Bericht Opa Geregistreerd op: 21-12-2004 Berichten: 42 BerichtGeplaatst: Za Sep 10, 2005 7:44 pm Onderwerp: Aceton in de tank toe te voegen. benzine motoren en diesel Reageer met quote Heb dit overgenomen van Michel, zal dit werken. Heb onlangs op het web info gevonden ivm het reduceren van het brandstofverbruik van onze wagens. Het zou mogelijk zijn om dit waar te maken door een beetje Aceton in de tank toe te voegen. Voor benzine motoren geldt 0.2% en voor diesel motoren 0.15%. Voor een TDI met 60l tank, moet je dus 90ml aan een volledig gevulde tank toevoegen. De waargenomen voordelen zijn: - Minder verbruik (10-35% max) - Meer vermogen - Beter lopende en soepelere motor - Reiniging van motor - Minder roet Aceton zou geen nadelige gevolgen hebben voor de onderdelen, omdat de kunststof onderdelen van hoogwaardige kwaliteit zijn. Die moeten trouwens andere bijtende goedjes slikken (benzine, additieven, enz.) Klinkt helemaal gek, maar dit is al veel uitgeprobeerd met heel veel positieve reacties. Brandstof wordt stilaan onbetaalbaar, zeker de moeite om te bekijken. In vele forums vragen de mensen waarom dit niet door wagenbouwers of brandstof verdelers al ingevoerd is. Het antwoord is eenvoudig. Ze zouden er bergen geld mee verliezen. Inklusief moeder de staat (btw, accijnzen, enz.) Ziehier voor meer info: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ http://www.loneinventor.com/ftopicp-254.html http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm Is dit bij jullie bekend, ervaring mee? Michel.