To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: KincaidDJ@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:20:33 EST Subject: Re: [80] Child Seat Restraints (Chat) Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com In a message dated 3/21/02 5:56:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, bozza4president@yahoo.com writes: << Members with children, My daughter is upgrading from a Child Seat to a Junior seat. The Junior seats (that look like a mini-Recaro type thing) don't have built in harnesses. You are supposed to use the vehicle seat belt, through the side attachments of the Junior seat. This is not a problem in my 80, but the other vehicle we have has only two-point restraints in the back (i.e. waist only restraints). The Junior seat requires three-point restraints (i.e. over the shoulder and waist restraints). My question is, despite having three-point restraints in our 80's, has anyone rigged a harness/belt to a rear floor hook for this purpose? With that idea in mind, I will have to play with the other vehicle. Just wondering what the options are...since the side pillar in the other vehicle cannot be made to take a mounting bolt, I'll probably need to attach it to the floor behind. (the other vehicle is a UBS55). Bozza >> Sorry about the last post. The computer has trigger-keys and is apt to fire on accident. As for the Recaro type seats, the kids like them, but they suck when it come to moving from car to car. Buy the type that they sit on (without a back, similar to a sloped platform) and have the shield attachment that fits over their waist with the seatbelt. These can be used with two or three point seatbelts and the kids like to lean forward to sleep. My kids like this type more than the Recaro style which we also have. Our Recaro style won't work on the Cruiser third seats or in the back of our F-250 Ford Supercab because these seats have near vertical backs and the Recaro back is angled too much to snug up correctly. No such problem on the other style. Check out this good website that goes over the different booster seat types and the way to install them correctly : www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/childps/booster_seat/page1.html David Kincaid [ 3 sons are a good excuse for acquiring additional Cruisers in the future. When they learn to drive, what vehicle could be safer without going with a Unimog? Even my wife reluctantly agrees with me on that one. 8^) ] To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: Doug Miller Date sent: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [80] Child Seat Restraints (Chat) Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com David, On your vertical 3rd seats - did you know they have a recliner feature? Pull the lever and lay them back as far as you please and they'll work fine with a child seat. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "scott miller" Date sent: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:25:44 Subject: Re: [80] Child Seat Restraints (Chat) Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com >On your vertical 3rd seats - did you know they have a recliner feature? >Pull the lever and lay them back as far as you please I just ran out to the garage to try that, rats. Still only two positions: vertical and nearly vertical. One of the only things that annoy me about this LC is that only the front seats recline. I've looked for a hidden lever, looked in the manual, am I missing something? Scott Miller Holland, MI '97 FJ80 To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: Doug Miller Date sent: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:09:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [80] Child Seat Restraints (Chat) Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com So it is! You're right - it only has one slight recline position to lean it from the first one. Guess that's the down side of having two full size Japanese SUV's with identical jumpseat layouts - it's the Montero's that recline. And the middle row also reclines. So, you're not crazy, just my faulty memory. We have had car seats back there just fine, however. If you get the Britax model I suggested, it will fit in a seat no matter how vertical. The seat attachment device is incredibly clever. You run the seatbelt strap through some thick structural plastic projections with the seat's clamshell frame opened. Then you shut it and these projections change relation to put some serious force on the seatbelt - literally compressing the child seat down into the seat. And because you're using the entire seat as a lever when you shut the clamshell frame, you hardly perceive the amount of force generated. When it's shut, you simply cannot move the seat in any direction - just what you want in a serious collision. DougM To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Ralph Mawyer Date sent: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:25:02 -0600 Subject: [80] Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Scott, somewhere in my surfing as a 80 Series newbie I came across replacement hinges that would allow the rear seats(2nd Seats) to recline....but not sure about the third row, since I pulled mine. I'll see if I can find the site...it may have been MAF....but they are out there, if that's what you're looking for. ;-) To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "bozza4president" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:36:09 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@y..., Ralph Mawyer wrote: > Scott, somewhere in my surfing as a 80 Series newbie I came across > replacement hinges that would allow the rear seats(2nd Seats) to > recline....but not sure about the third row, since I pulled mine. > > I'll see if I can find the site...it may have been MAF....but they > are out there, if that's what you're looking for. ;-) > Yes, they are definitely out there...they appear all the rage here in Japan. You can see them readily for sale on Yahoo Japan Auction. Second (middle) seat reclining hinges. Don't know how much they'd squeeze the rear seats...I don't have any! A friend fitted the reclining hinges because (of all the resons) he was sick and tired of having an obstructed view out the rear...the second row seat headrests block your view, so rather than take THEM out, he changed out the hinges. Straight swap, simple procedure. If they are available in Japan, then someone is definitely carrying them in the States. Bozza To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "scott miller" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:52:34 Subject: Re: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com >If they are available in Japan, then someone is definitely carrying >them in the States. I'll start looking. Long drives with the family would be a lot easier with reclining rear seats. I'm tempted to take the minivan up north skiing for that reason, sad to leave the LC behind. I'm looking to buy another used '97 LC by May '03, may need two sets. Do they recline on the 100s? Scott Miller Holland, MI '97 FJ80 To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "markshiveley" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:30:51 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com I may be wrong (I hope so) but as I recall this thread came up and everyone was excited and then it turned out the U.S seats are different and the hinges wouldn't fit. I think maybe John Hocker was researching it?? That's what I recall Mark To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Ralph Mawyer Date sent: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:26:57 -0600 Subject: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com YMMV, but here's the listing: http://www.man-a-fre.com/intacc.html FJ80 Rear Seat Recliner Hinges These are factory O.E. Toyota hinges for the rear seats of your FJ80/LX450. The only difference is that they allow the seats to be fully reclined. Excellent for sleepy kids on long trips. TSBL $99.00 a pair To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "markshiveley" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 05:38:41 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@y..., Ralph Mawyer wrote: > YMMV, but here's the listing: > > http://www.man-a-fre.com/intacc.html > FJ80 Rear Seat Recliner Hinges > > These are factory O.E. Toyota hinges for the rear seats of your > FJ80/LX450. The only difference is that they allow the seats to be > fully reclined. Excellent for sleepy kids on long trips. > > TSBL $99.00 a pair Great, the time frame I was remembering was "old list" days so it has been awhile. Mark To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Mot and Amy Shimazaki Date sent: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:06:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- markshiveley wrote: > Great, the time frame I was remembering was "old > list" days so it has > been awhile. > > Mark Guys, I'll probably get flamed for this one, but I was the one who mentioned about the reclining kit to another lister who announced it to the list months back. The kit or the hinges are common here as one of the two models in the 80 series came standard with them(I believe it was the wagon model, rather than the van model). I did get excited about it until I asked Shuei whether it would work on the US 80 models. He said they wouldn't. I can't remember the reason why, but that's what I was told. But still not satisfied, recently I asked a Japanese LC80 list the same question and they thought that the kit "should" work(not "will"), since Toyota should not have bothered different seat design, for a truck sold worldwide. It was also my understanding that the kit will recline, but not all the way flat. Maybe Bozza or someone else in Japan or anyone who's purchased the kit from MAF can verify. I hope I am wrong. I have heard of, however, an aftermarket kit which was rather expensiver(approaching, if not exceeding, $1,000) which would allow the 2nd row seat to recline, flat, with the headrest removed. This is probably all a figment of my imagination. I hope that the kit MAF sells reclines all the way. I'm interested in anyone who's installed it in the US or elsewhere outside of Japan. Mot To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "bozza4president" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:03:28 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@y..., Mot and Amy Shimazaki wrote: > Guys, > > I'll probably get flamed for this one, but I was the > one who mentioned about the reclining kit to another > lister who announced it to the list months back. > > The kit or the hinges are common here as one of the > two models in the 80 series came standard with them(I > believe it was the wagon model, rather than the van > model). > > I did get excited about it until I asked Shuei whether > it would work on the US 80 models. He said they > wouldn't. I can't remember the reason why, but that's > what I was told. > > But still not satisfied, recently I asked a Japanese > LC80 list the same question and they thought that the > kit "should" work(not "will"), since Toyota should not > have bothered different seat design, for a truck sold > worldwide. > > It was also my understanding that the kit will > recline, but not all the way flat. Maybe Bozza or > someone else in Japan or anyone who's purchased the > kit from MAF can verify. I hope I am wrong. > > I have heard of, however, an aftermarket kit which was > rather expensiver(approaching, if not exceeding, > $1,000) which would allow the 2nd row seat to recline, > flat, with the headrest removed. > > This is probably all a figment of my imagination. I > hope that the kit MAF sells reclines all the way. > > I'm interested in anyone who's installed it in the US > or elsewhere outside of Japan. > > Mot > Hello, Mot. Yes, you are correct on many counts. I don't have the hinges fitted (8 number, so the they wouldn't recline anyway) but a friend does. They don't recline all the way (ie. flat). Strangely, someone (Shuei, I think) also makes a front seat(s) frame/mount/rail that allows the front seat (with headrest removed) to recline all the way back and join the second row. Makes a perfect fit. Without these mounts/rails, you can't get the front seat forward enough to do this normally. For overnight vehicle sleeps, you lie on the second row with your feet stretched out toward the dash. Perhaps the rear wheel wells/arches in the vehicle stopped the fully reclining second row...again, I'm guessing. Seems a hell of a way to get a flat space. I have a bed (ala drawers), when the second row is folded completely forward, and that is enough for me. Another thing, Mot. Shuei not thinking they will fit a US model may have other meanings, too. I know many who cringe when asked to send something over to the US...many are afraid of being flamed by the PL issues...and more specifically, the culture of litigation. I know the president of Dune very well, and he will not send set of coils to the States. Plot, also, will not send their SS mesh brake lines...a pity. Both are at the very top end of product design and quality. But they don't want to be involved. When you think about it, the seat hinges can change (for better or worse) the safety parameters of the seat in full collision conditions. Do you think Shuei wants to be involved in issues arising from stuff like this? Me thinks not. Shuei doesn't even want to send over items of far smaller import. Reminds me of the guy suing Bilstein because he rolled his car after fitting 2 inch longer shocks to his lifted vehicle. Bozza example 1 http://page3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c17867648 example 2 http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d15462705 example 3 http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b21854855 To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "fj6080" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:58:41 -0000 Subject: Re: [80] Child Seat Restraints (Chat) Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@y..., Doug Miller wrote: > So it is! You're right - it only has one slight recline position to lean it > from the first one. Guess that's the down side of having two full size > Japanese SUV's with identical jumpseat layouts - it's the Montero's that > recline. And the middle row also reclines. So, you're not crazy, just my > faulty memory. We have had car seats back there just fine, however. If you > get the Britax model I suggested, it will fit in a seat no matter how > vertical. > > The seat attachment device is incredibly clever. You run the seatbelt strap > through some thick structural plastic projections with the seat's clamshell > frame opened. Then you shut it and these projections change relation to put > some serious force on the seatbelt - literally compressing the child seat > down into the seat. And because you're using the entire seat as a lever > when you shut the clamshell frame, you hardly perceive the amount of force > generated. When it's shut, you simply cannot move the seat in any direction > - just what you want in a serious collision. > > DougM I have seen MAF or SOR has a non US bit that allows the rear(2nd row) seat to full recline, think there may even be a simialar setup for the far rear seats. Seems like I have seen pics of NON US rigs with all the seats folded flat, so as to make a bed John Holmaas To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "fj6080" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:28:04 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@y..., Mot and Amy Shimazaki wrote: > --- markshiveley wrote: > > Great, the time frame I was remembering was "old > > list" days so it has > > been awhile. > > > > Mark > > Guys, > > I'll probably get flamed for this one, but I was the > one who mentioned about the reclining kit to another > lister who announced it to the list months back. > > The kit or the hinges are common here as one of the > two models in the 80 series came standard with them(I > believe it was the wagon model, rather than the van > model). > > I did get excited about it until I asked Shuei whether > it would work on the US 80 models. He said they > wouldn't. I can't remember the reason why, but that's > what I was told. > > But still not satisfied, recently I asked a Japanese > LC80 list the same question and they thought that the > kit "should" work(not "will"), since Toyota should not > have bothered different seat design, for a truck sold > worldwide. Just looked through some UK 80 brochures and at least the VX version has all three rows shown in the reclined positon, but not fully flat (like I thought, but I still think soe do) And yes it looks like even the cloth rear seats in the UK 80's are a different style(the fronts are more like the old US 4runner SR5 seats), more of a contoured Recarro type seat, headrests are different as well. Found some other pics that only show the 2nd row seats reclined. John Holmaas To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "David F. Morse" Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:10:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [80] Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com >Scott, somewhere in my surfing as a 80 Series newbie I came across >replacement hinges that would allow the rear seats(2nd Seats) to >recline....but not sure about the third row, since I pulled mine. > >I'll see if I can find the site...it may have been MAF....but they >are out there, if that's what you're looking for. ;-) ---------------------- Scott; MAF catalog #10, page 179, cost $100/pair - jeezze! David in Denver ///////////////////// Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.) To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Kemasa Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:55:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Ralph Mawyer wrote: > > YMMV, but here's the listing: > > http://www.man-a-fre.com/intacc.html > FJ80 Rear Seat Recliner Hinges > > These are factory O.E. Toyota hinges for the rear seats of your > FJ80/LX450. The only difference is that they allow the seats to be > fully reclined. Excellent for sleepy kids on long trips. I just got done looking at the seat of my 93 FJ80. The second row seats has positions for about 6-8 reclining positions and the third row seat have enough so that it looks like they would go all the way down. Only one small problem and that is a steel rod which acts as a limiter and prevents it from accessing those positions. I would think that one could remove the shaft and then get all the positions. I am curious what the replacement hinges have on them and if that shaft is missing or just in a different place. It may be that you want that shaft to limit the movement in case of a serious accident, but it sure would be interesting to see if you can convert the current hinges. Kemasa. To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: Doug Miller Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:34:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > From: Kemasa > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:55:06 -0800 > > Ralph Mawyer wrote: >> >> YMMV, but here's the listing: >> >> http://www.man-a-fre.com/intacc.html >> FJ80 Rear Seat Recliner Hinges >> >> These are factory O.E. Toyota hinges for the rear seats of your >> FJ80/LX450. The only difference is that they allow the seats to be >> fully reclined. Excellent for sleepy kids on long trips. > > I just got done looking at the seat of my 93 FJ80. The second > row seats has positions for about 6-8 reclining positions > and the third row seat have enough so that it looks like > they would go all the way down. Only one small problem > and that is a steel rod which acts as a limiter and prevents > it from accessing those positions. I would think that one could > remove the shaft and then get all the positions. I am curious > what the replacement hinges have on them and if that shaft is > missing or just in a different place. It may be that you want > that shaft to limit the movement in case of a serious accident, > but it sure would be interesting to see if you can convert > the current hinges. > > Kemasa. Hey, good detective work. Maybe you'd be just the one to mod it, though I see your point if it's a safety issue. DougM To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> Copies to: From: "Kemasa" Date sent: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:51:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > Hey, good detective work. Maybe you'd be just the one to mod it, > though I see your point if it's a safety issue. I might do it, but only after looking at the replacement hinges to see if that is the only difference. If they changed the stop, then I would not want to do it. It might be that the requirement is US, so other versions may not have it. Not sure. It would be easy to do. Not sure of how hard it would be to "repair" it once it was removed. I think if you found the correct bolt type, then you could return it to near original condition. One problem is knowing the type of bolt to use :-). To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> Copies to: From: "Kemasa" Date sent: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80] Re: Rear Seat Recline Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > Hey, good detective work. Maybe you'd be just the one to mod it, > though I see your point if it's a safety issue. I am going to have to look at the hinge again, but in looking at the web page picture, it looks like the pin is missing. I need to print the picture out and then compare it to what is in my vehicle, but you can see the opening right near the spring, that is where the pin is as I recall. To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Kemasa" List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:46:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80] Middle Bench recline? >... > Anyways, is there any possibility that the middle bench be reclined > backwards for comfort purposes? Yes. There are two ways to do it. One it to get the replacement parts (Man-a-fre), which cost around $99/pair. Only available in gray. This will allow for full recline and locking in any position. The second way is to remove the stop, which can also be done on the third row, but only the third row has all the gearing to lock it in position. This will allow the normal position locked and then you can recline it back all the way, but it will not lock and I would not suggest having people sit there in that position (not a good idea in general since you will go under the seat belt). To remove the pin, remove the assembly and drill out one side. You need to drill the pressure fit side so that the other side will just come out. I think it might be the outer side, but would have to verify that. You can also use a saw to cut it, but that is harder. Kemasa.