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What Toyota doesn't want you to know about the 1HD-T engine (HDJ-80 '90-95)

http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings/nice_things.html From: "graham porter" To: <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Big End Bearing Help Needed Date sent: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:18:41 +0930 Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: charlene Morris To: <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 1999 5:33 Subject: Re: [80] Big End Bearing Help Needed > Please any Aussie members had their big ends done by TOYOTA, I need to defend my > case with case details I'm looking down the barrel of a Two Thousand Dollar Bill., > > Charlene > > Hi Charlene, We had our LC bottom end fixed up September last year 1998. We had done 170,000 kms when it went big time out in the middle of the sticks north of Charleville towing a caravan. It was shipped back to ADELAIDE for repairs and we were told that the crank was stuffed as well as one conrod and all the bottom end bearings , quote to repair was $6500.00 !!!!!. But I stuck my ground and quoted the details obtained from this group about the problem bearings in the 92-94 cruisers. The dealer offered me 50/50 on the repairs but I still refused and the dealer advised me to contact the TOYOTA Corp customer service line which I did. Final outcome was a repair bill of $450.00 for which I was grateful although since then I have heard of LCs being repaired here in ADELAIDE free of cost all were high mileage units of around 160.000kms plus... Hhope the above will be some help to you and good luck with the repairs... Let me know how you get on and if I can be of any more help please let me know either via the group or direct email ( grakat@picknowl) Cheers from Graham & Cathy Date sent: Tue, 11 May 1999 04:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Sabeeney Subject: Re: [80] Big End Bearing Help Needed To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com, 80_series@corp.sgi.com Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Charlene, I had my LC 1991 TD repaired by Toyota, I had a slight ticking sound, went to toyota and asked if they would check it out, they determined that there may be a big end problem, they suggested that they strip it down and replace the bearings, the dealer quoted $1300 I said is this a common problem with them and can it be claimed under warranty, car had 175,000 kms he said how much would I be preparred to pay ? I said nothing ! he put the claim in and results were very favourable, they agreed to pay for everything. my service history was not perfect, ie not every 5000km services was recorded, however to my knowledge they were done. The reason I believe I had no problem was that I happened to take the car to a brand new dealership that only had just opened a week before, I believe that they pushed Toyota Australia harder to gain some bussines ! good luck ! === Andre Sabeeney sabeeney@yahoo.com.au ph 0419 858 006 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From: "Norm Needham" To: <80_series@corp.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Big End Bearing Help Needed Date sent: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:34:47 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com From: Michael Barson Date: Tuesday, 11 May 1999 21:30 >Charlene and Andre, i have had two 80's 92 and a 97 both had cranks and >bearings replaced one at 20000klm and the other 40000klm approx. both Mick, You mention your 97 model having crank/bearings replaced. Can we have some more details? Specifically: 1) Was this the 1HD-FT (24 valve turbo diesel) engine? 2) What were the symptoms that caused the repairs? 3) Did you see the damaged parts, and if so, were the bearing shells pitted? Sorry to quiz you like this, but the 1HD-FT is NOT known for the same bearing problem as the 1HD-T (12 valve). Many of the list members have 1HD-FTs and right about now will be praying that yours was an isolated case. Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com Date sent: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:48:19 +0800 To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com From: Michael Barson Subject: Re: [80] Big End Bearing Help Needed Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com ,At 11:34 11/05/99 +1000, you wrote: >From: Michael Barson >Date: Tuesday, 11 May 1999 21:30 > > >>Charlene and Andre, i have had two 80's 92 and a 97 both had cranks and >>bearings replaced one at 20000klm and the other 40000klm approx. both > > >Mick, >You mention your 97 model having crank/bearings replaced. Can we have >some more details? >Specifically: >1) Was this the 1HD-FT (24 valve turbo diesel) engine? >2) What were the symptoms that caused the repairs? >3) Did you see the damaged parts, and if so, were the bearing shells >pitted? > >Sorry to quiz you like this, but the 1HD-FT is NOT known for the same >bearing problem as the 1HD-T (12 valve). Many of the list members have >1HD-FTs and right about now will be praying that yours was an isolated >case. > >Cheers * >Norm Needham * * >Traction4 / ARB Northside * >Sydney, Australia * >Trac4@bigpond.com Norm it is a 24 valve model Turbo Diesel as i said i also had an earlier 12 valve model that had the same noise / symptoms. No i did not see the bearings i was told that the crankshafts had been machined incorrectly and that was the cause. I was also told that the reason that i have the same problem again is that its possible one of the old "batch"of cranks has been put in the second time around.( but that does not explain the original crank in the 24 V, Sounds strange to me but the noise is identical to the previous model. All i can do is hope that its fixed this time. Also this same vehicle has had a LHR electric window motor replaced, drivers seat material replaced (does not wear as good as the previous material) and the wiper motor needs attention, apparently some of them have dry solder joints and it takes a while for them to speed up from low to fast wiper speed ( about 30 - 40 seconds for mine) That is coming from my local dealer. any one else had these nigly problems? Mick Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:54:14 +1000 To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com From: Terence J Leeder Subject: [80] Secret info from Toyota Shhhhh (Chat) Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com I have been at Toyota Taren Point NSW OZ, on some Diesel Training for today and tomorrow (Mon & Tue). Interestingly the Trainer did his usual welcome and we responded with whom we were etc. The trainer then asked if there were any reports from the field that the mechanics would like to report!!!!. Three guys simultaniously blurted out the 1HD-T Big End Problems they were having etc. I sat back and listened intently. the conversation then widened with all responding???. We are also talking a few engines with electrical problems as well, IE: alternator busted off the block by a wayward Conrod etc. Pistons hitting heads, bent valves etc. official response "Toyota are honouring a Case by Case extended Warranty on these Small occurances". He then went on to say that they are aware of a few isolated cases that generally occured at aprox 120+k and were a little ?????, as it is all over the Internet?.. The Trainer could not confirm that the replacement bigends were of better quality. Some dealers were replacing these with ACL brand bearings until knuckles were caned. I picked up a good book on the 1HD-FTE engine YUM, More soon. Shit I hope I dont get my ass kicked for this. Hello Mr Toyota, I really didn't mean it, really I'm sorry. MoRAn mOe,, Te he, Date sent: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:47:48 -0600 From: Roger Loving To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] Secret info from Toyota Shhhhh (Chat) Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Thank you Terence. You are a brave man....I'll try to defuse any consequences by pointing out that you are confirming what all of us already suspected, and that it has been confirmed in the past by the "case by case" reports of extended warranty coverage from respected members on this list. If Mr. Toyota is reading the list I hope this helps! Otherwise you had better don the flackproof jacket ASAP.. :-) Good luck! Roger Loving Date sent: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:59:08 +1000 From: georgec@melbourne.sgi.com (George Couyant) Organization: SGI To: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] Secret info from Toyota Shhhhh (Chat) Send reply to: 80_series@corp.sgi.com Well Terry, don't be concerned. It's like talking about the weather. Sun and rain happens, no matter how quiet you try to keep it, just like big ends. It's a pity the trainer was a little ???? about it being on the internet. You can let him know Toyota PR support (begrudgingly) what we're doing on this issue. In fact saving Toyota and our members (and 1HD-T public) a bunch of money by catching failures before they become major. It's a clever way Toyota can get the word out without fessing up that there is a problem. And they can always point the finger at us and say we're a bunch of arseholes for spreading bullshit. I'm about to hit Toyota again because over the past couple of months, there have been several big 1HD-T failures and Toyota have refused any support. The service reps won't even look at them. All on the grounds that they are well out of warranty. Seems that there have been a few new service faces out in the field that are unaware of the problem. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/bios/george_couyant.html Subject: [80] 1HD-T Big end bearings... Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Oh man, when it rains, it pours.... Tally for this week. And I mean just this week. 4 major failures 10 vehicles checked, 7 with dud bearings. And that's only the ones I know of in our state. They're getting to that mileage.... If you haven't checked them, DO IT NOW. Don't wait for a dealer to approve it. Just do it and pay for it. A $600 job now is a lot cheaper and less frustrating than fighting with Toyota and being without the car for ages while it's being fixed. THEN make a claim to your local dealer. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Bob Reaburn" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big end bearings... Date sent: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:13:00 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Very sound advice George. At 185,000km the bearings in my 1HD-T were in extremely poor condition(stuffed). One had a hole that you could put the tip of your pinkie(as in little finger) through. Try talking to the dealership first, I did and they carried out the repair promptly and at no cost to me. It seems to me that Toyota, whilst not openly admitting that there is a problem, have directed their dealers to placate any owners who are well informed and are insistent that they(Toyota) make good with the repairs. I approached the dealer armed with a large collection of relevant evidence, including photographs of buggered bearings. At some time during the discussion I might also have said that I had become so disillusioned with Toyota that I was considering replacing my 80 with a..... PPP.....PPPPPaaa.....PPPPaaaattttt....PPPPPaaaat-ttrrroooll. Yes, it was hard to get that word out but desperate situations demand desperate measures. Besides I had my fingers crossed and I washed my mouth out when I got home. Cheers, Bob Reaburn 91 HDJ80 - Bendigo (Downunder) From: moie@effect.net.au (Anthony Siracusa) To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Date sent: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:57:36 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Hi Can someone help please. I have a 1994 GXL Turbo Diesel with a manufacture date of October 1994. After reading all about big end bearing failure I went to my Toyota dealer to get mine checked. I was told that the problem was only with vehicles manufacture up till September 1994 and, as my truck was October 1994 manufacture, it should have had the beefed up bearings installed during manufacture. The dealer was able to give this appraisal after checking my chassis/VIN number. Can anybody throw any light on this or tell me how I can check it out for myself please. Thanks Tony Siracusa Date sent: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:09:02 +1000 From: George Couyant Organization: SGI To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Anthony Siracusa wrote: > Can anybody throw any light on this or tell me how I can check it out for > myself please. Look at the manufacturing plate on the firewall in the engine compartment. If it says 1HD-FT you're okay. If it says 1HD-T then you should have them checked if you've done more than 100,000km. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/bios/george_couyant.html From: "Mick Barson" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Date sent: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:41:09 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com George i appreciate that your a very knowledgeable person when it comes to Toyotas, but your comment to Anthony Siracusa about being OK if it is a 1HD-FT could be misleading, because mine has had its bearings and crank replaced and its a 97',pehaps hopefully for all the other owners its a one off thing and you are indeed correct,, but where theres one...................!! From: moie@effect.net.au (Anthony Siracusa) To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Date sent: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:54:27 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Hi all Phoned Toyota Customer Relations regarding this matter. I was told that Toyota switched to the 'beefed up' big end bearings in August 1994. Therefore my vehicle is OK as it was manufactured on 11 October 1994. I am writing to Toyota to get this in writing. Will keep everyone informed. Tony Siracusa Date sent: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:10:43 +1000 From: George Couyant Organization: SGI To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Mick Barson wrote: > > George i appreciate that your a very knowledgeable person when it comes to > Toyotas, but your comment to Anthony Siracusa about being OK if it is a 1HD-FT > could be misleading, because mine has had its bearings and crank replaced and > its a 97',pehaps hopefully for all the other owners its a one off thing and > you are indeed correct,, but where theres one...................!! We're talking different things. The problem you were experiencing was faulty machining of the crankshaft. It's seen on 1HZ's and 1HD-FT's. It seems that it's more apparent on the 1HD-FT, probably because of the sharper power stroke. That said, you're seeing symptoms as opposed to the big end bearing problem of the 1HD-T. The motor runs fine with no symptoms. When you do hear something it's invariably too late. Any reports of big end problems on 1HZ or 1HD-FT as far as I can tell are hearsay. I don't have any solid evidence. I must admit that diagnosing these noises is very difficult. With a stiff block like that on the 1HD-FT, a noise at one end of the motor (which is barely audible) may sound like a loud clack at the other end. The noise I'm hearing is a sharp ticking between 2,100 - 2,400 rpm when hot. Dead quiet cold. Much louder under load. I'm aware of one other with these symptoms. Yours as I understand ticks at or near idle. This is similar to Mark's noise but one of his injectors sounded quite dull. The other 5 sounded crisp. Toyota have said they'll replace the crank etc on mine but I want to hold off for a while until I've exhausted all other possibilities. I've spent many many hours over the past few weeks experimenting and I'm seeing weird things. I'm working with the dealer who out of courtesy and a misguided interest is making his mechanics and equipment available to me. It's actually kind of cool. Stand back and ask "could we now crack #4 injector please". "And now, could we crack #6 injector please whilst leaving #4 cracked". "Could we now drop #1 valve clearance to 1 thou tighter than min spec and all others at max spec please".... What I'm seeing is anything that upsets the balance of power stroke balance between cylinders affects the noise. Whatever you do, don't accept Toyota's favourite excuse of secondary combustion noise. It isn't..... Stay tuned. Cheers gc From: "Craig mort" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HZ Big End Bearing noise? Date sent: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:23:23 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Just got word back from a friend with a 1990/91 1HZ powered GXL who was doing an outback trip and had a noise that sounded like the bigend bearings going. He had tried to check the oil but coudn't get the sump plug off at the time. It wasn't the bigend bearings that caused the noise but was the sump plug magnet that came loose and started to float around and get crushed up into millions of bit's. The particles of the magnet did attract to eachother and come out of the oil solution. The bearings were all in good shape and the name has mow gone. Just something to consider. Cheers Craig cmort@bigpond.com 95 1FZ mall cruiser Date sent: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:31:14 +1000 From: George Couyant Organization: SGI To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] Re: 1HD-T Big End Bearings Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com char wrote: > > Hi George I know the reply is late but i have been off line. I finally had > Toyota check my big ends guess what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yup 1 and 3 were described > to me as spinning and had scored the camshaft. My 92 Model had 220,000 on the > clock the bill went from $300.00 to $1,500.00 Toyota would only come to the > party by 50%... Charlene, did you accept the offer to pay half? If not, you can argue that the additional cost was a consequence of the recognized failure of the big end bearings and that you are not liable. I just got off the phone to Toyota about the 1HD-T issue and am trying to kick start a customer satisfaction program. If you feel that you have been unjustly dealt with, I urge you to phone Jenny Stewart (1800 252 097) with your concern. Jenny is the CSD supervisor and is well aware of the 1HD-T issue and of our group. Toyota are in a bit of shock at the moment with the release of the Patrol TD and will be doing their best to keep customer loyalty, especially the type of customer who is willing to pay for their high margin products such as TD 80s. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Gary Martin" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Date sent: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:23:22 +1000 Subject: [80]1HZ big end failures Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com For your info - no panic intended, and all disclaimers apply (so no one gets sued...) I was speaking to a turbo fitter earlier today (discussing turbo vs. supercharging...), and conversation got onto boost on 1HZ with aftermarket turbos...he said he hasnt had any trouble with ones he's fitted (as he keeps boost to a absolute maximum of 7psi). BUT, he knows of a few (three to four) examples of 1HZs that have had their big end bearings fail. Only one of the ones he knows is turboed, and it had the bearings spin. The others were cracked or pitted - not sure (all happened between 130 & 160 thousand kms). Toyota paid for half of the cost of the bearing/engine fix in each example (even the turbo one - which was a 75 series tray), to sooth the customers. Seeya gary ------------------------- Gary Martin Victoria AUSTRALIA email: gmartin@csu.edu.au ------------------------- From: "Mick Barson" To: "80 series on line" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] 1HD-FT crank & bearings- 3rd time lucky [Chat] Aussie Date sent: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:13:24 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Hi group, To those that are interested, my Cruiser is back in the = driveway after having the crank and bearings replaced by Toyota, ticking = noise has dissapeared. Mechanic informed me that there was some wear on = the bearings but not any more than expected, The "fault" seemed to be an = incorrectly machined crankshaft, they compared the old to the new with a = micrometer and there were differences, also the newer crank was = "significantly" (their words) heavier. cheers Mick : West Aussie 97' 1HD-FT (no longer ticking) ickbar@southwest.com.au Date sent: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:58:03 +1000 To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: Christopher Nicholls Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-FT crank & bearings- 3rd time lucky [Chat] Aussie Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com At 11:13 AM 25/06/99 +0800, Mick Barson wrote: >Hi group, > To those that are interested, my Cruiser is back in the >driveway after having the crank and bearings replaced by Toyota, ticking >noise has dissapeared. Mechanic informed me that there was some wear on the >bearings but not any more than expected, The "fault" seemed to be an >incorrectly machined crankshaft, they compared the old to the new with a >micrometer and there were differences, also the newer crank was "significantly" >(their words) heavier. cheers Mick : West Aussie 97' 1HD-FT (no longer ticking) >ickbar@southwest.com.au GC.... this is a worry... "they compared the old to the new with a micrometer and there were differences, also the newer crank was "significantly" (their words) heavier." Why/when did they change the crank-shaft? Regards Chris '97 HDJ80 - Canberra, Oz From: "Mick Barson" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-FT crank & bearings- 3rd time lucky [Chat] Aussie Date sent: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:56:30 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com >GC.... this is a worry... > >"they compared the old to the new with a micrometer and there were >differences, also the newer crank was "significantly" (their words) heavier." > >Why/when did they change the crank-shaft? > >Regards > >Chris >'97 HDJ80 - Canberra, Oz Chris i have mailed you previously with my details on the crank "problem" to your home address, did you not receive it? Just Quickly to bring you up to date: my 97' compliance ,Dec 96' build had a ticking sound at approx 40 thou klms, crank & bearings replaced under warranty, ticking noise reappeared again and crank & bearings replaced again at 65 thou klms. A check by the State Service manager revealed that the crank (no 2) had not been replaced by the revised model. He stated that this had nothing to do with the bearing problems of the earlier models! Which brings me to suggest that some 24v turbos will tick and others wont depending on which model crank went in. cheers Mick : West Aussie 97' 1HD-FT ickbar@southwest.com.au Date sent: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:37:21 +1000 From: George Couyant Organization: SGI To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-FT crank & bearings- 3rd time lucky [Chat] Aussie Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Christopher Nicholls wrote: > Why/when did they change the crank-shaft? Officially, the new crankshaft is because of a completely new machine installed in japan which machines them. It's the same crankshaft that goes into 1HZ's, 1HD-T's and 1HD-FT's and simply has tighter journal taper tolerances. That said, the people I've been speaking to about it have been very cagey and buggered if I can get two people to say the same thing. I suspect that Toyota thinks it has a customer satisfaction issue on its hands and that they are dealing with it in the way they have in the past. If I piece the bullshit together and disregard the obviously false (or uninformed) stuff, I end up with "the new crankshaft is stiffer with tighter machining tolerances and it eliminates any 'ting ting ting' noises that can't be eliminated by any other means". Toyota will consider replacing those which they consider to be "excessively" noisy (basically means you have to fight them and convince them that it's excessively noisy). Not that there should be any problem in the future, but just in case, it's worth while reporting any noises to the dealer and to have an idea of whether it's getting worse. I listened to another yesterday built Mar '97 and other than a very faint tick at 1,200rpm, it was dead quiet. And that tick, you *really* had to listen for. It had done 90,000km and probably won't get any worse. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/bios/george_couyant.html From: "Gary Tierney" To: "80 Series Group" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] 1HD-T Big End problems (more) Date sent: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:00:03 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com More info for any that need it. Purchase 91 GXL 1HD-T in 97 with 145K on the clock. At about 150K a = slight "tick" was notice at about 2000 RPM. Many workshops consulted, no = ideas. At 169K Big End rattle, wife was driving and stopped immediately = (she=92s a good girl isn=92t she). Happened 35km from home so towed to = nearest workshop (not Toyota). They found No 6 big end bearing failure = and the rest badly pitted (particularly No 5). Crankshaft OK so clean up = and fit new bearings. All seemed OK but "tick" still there. At 178K big end rattle, this time near home, so I took it to the local = Toyota dealer and sure enough No 6 big end failure. Also identified = crankshaft crack (axial crack in no 6 big end journal starting at oil = gallery and extending forward about 10 mm). The dealer approached Toyota = on my behalf and they agreed to come half way with the bill (except for = normal wear items). Thank you Toyota, I was worried as I do my own = maintenance every 5000k. Rebuilt by local Toyota dealer including new = crankshaft, pistons, rings, etc. Total cost to me $4500 Aust.=20 Now have 186K on the clock running fine and yes the "tick" is still = there but it is quieter. Any recommendations for Oil I should be using. = Was using Castrol but now not so sure. Now, I have a friend with same model car and about the same mileage. He = is tossing up whether to get his bearings checked. I think he should as = the cost of a set of bearings and fitting is minimal compared to the = cost of a rebuild. Gary 91 GXL 1HD-T From: "Craig Mort" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1hd-t bearing troubles - new theory / rumour Date sent: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:58:37 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com I've hear a report from a friend (treat it as a rumour for now) that it isn't the bearings that are causing the troubles but is the crankshaft. The claim stems from a fitter and turner who owns one and had several sets of new bearings fitted. After several sets of bearings he pulled out the crankshaft and found that it wasn't straight. Whether it was machined like that at Toyota or out of balance and bent over time. I don't know how much out it was but may have been just outside of the tolerances. This may be good to check out. GC, This isn't the reason that they replaced your crank is it? Cheers Craig cmort@bigpond.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:50:46 +1000 From: George Couyant Organization: SGI To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] Penrite Oil Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Alistair I. Paul wrote: > Could this be why all your 1HD-T bearings are failing???? ;-) Well actually, those running on Mobil 1 don't seem to suffer the problem. Incidentally, I haven't come across one '90 - '94 1HD-T motor with the updated big end bearings which have shown signs of failure. I'm beginning to think that they've finally fixed them. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Ron Smith" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Penrite Oil Date sent: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:41:14 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com I have been running Penrite HPR Pedigree since new with no problems and good oil pressure in my 4.5lt petrol (116,000km). A relation of mine has a 92 TD and is in the marine business. He use a straight 50w oil all the time and when his bearings were checked at 94,000km, there was no sign of wear. From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:19:35 +0100 Subject: [80] Big end bearings (was Re: CV joint Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com On 15 Nov 99 at 9:03, Ian B wrote: > Dan, > > CBC Bearings keep the outer axle assy in stock for a much cheaper > price. The item comes from the same manufacturer that Toyota use, > I've been told . Speaking of bearings, what was that brand of aftermarket big-end bearings? OEM Toyota uses aluminium shell + tin lining, but one aftermarket company supplied copper/brass shell + lead lining, correct? Which company is this? Also CBC? And have there been reports on respective wear in the mean time? IOW: are they indeed better? (I recall that copper/lead is the rule in the industry, while alu/tin is considered a cheap shot) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: AU Sunshine-mgr Western Farm Service To: "'80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com'" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: RE: [80] Big end bearings (was Re: CV joint Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:34:35 -0600 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > > CBC Bearings keep the outer axle assy in stock for a much cheaper > > price. The item comes from the same manufacturer that Toyota use, > > I've been told . > > Speaking of bearings, what was that brand of aftermarket big-end > bearings? > OEM Toyota uses aluminium shell + tin lining, but one aftermarket company > supplied copper/brass shell + lead lining, correct? Which company is this? > Also CBC? And have there been reports on respective wear in the mean time? > IOW: are they indeed better? (I recall that copper/lead is the rule in the > industry, while alu/tin is considered a cheap shot) WJM, I believe I read somewhere that the company which sold the aftermarket copper backed big end bearing's for the 80's was ACL in Aust. ACL stands for Automotive Components Limited. Their URL is http://www.acl.com.au/web/corp.nsf I am not sure how they performed, or how the supposed "changed metalurgy" in the replacement Toyota bearings has gone as mine has only done about 60,000kms on the replacement bearings. CBC (Consolidated Bearing Company) here in Aust. sell mainly ball bearings and associated hardware. I know that Hardy Spicer here in Aust. also carry the replacement CV joints for the 80's. Regards, Greg Goulden 1990 HDJ80 TD-I Date sent: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:07:23 +1100 To: "Willem-Jan Markerink" From: Terence J Leeder Subject: [80] aftermarket Big end bearings >On 15 Nov 99 at 9:03, Ian B wrote: > >> Dan, >> >> CBC Bearings keep the outer axle assy in stock for a much cheaper >> price. The item comes from the same manufacturer that Toyota use, >> I've been told . > "Willem-Jan Markerink" Wrote: >Speaking of bearings, what was that brand of aftermarket big-end >bearings? >OEM Toyota uses aluminium shell + tin lining, but one aftermarket company >supplied copper/brass shell + lead lining, correct? Which company is this? Also >CBC? And have there been reports on respective wear in the mean time? IOW: are >they indeed better? (I recall that copper/lead is the rule in the industry, >while alu/tin is considered a cheap shot) > G'Day Willem, I will reply offline because I don't want my ass kicked again by some people. The copper/brass as you have stated above is good for loads and long service. The company we use in here in OZ, is ACL brand bearings. The ACL heavy duty bearings have an oil well groove around the middle of the bearing to hold a oil reserve. It's interesting to note that Toyota have changed bearing design on the 1HD-FTE The shell has many radial grooves in the circumferential direction over the surface of the bearings. To Quote Toyota "This improves the bearing break-in and oil retention, thus improving the reliability of the engine" They do not mention they have used a different material in the bearings as used previously! Goodluck Terry From: "Kevin Hughes" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: RE: [80] Big end bearings (was Re: CV joint Date sent: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:36:24 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com [mailto:owner-80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com]On Behalf Of AU Sunshine-mgr Western Farm Service Sent: Tuesday, 16 November 1999 9:35 To: '80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com' Subject: RE: [80] Big end bearings (was Re: CV joint ****************************************************************** Just on the subject of Big End Bearings..... I have just had my 91 TD, (130K) replaced. Had a struggle with Toyota and the local dealer. Got the right results in the end. Toyota paid half and with a little more pushing paid half of my half.... all up cost to me about $120aus for the full replacement job. Dropped the truck off 8am Monday morning 15/11 and picked it up this arvo 16/11.... I think the Dealer was a little surprised to find damage to the bearings. No.3 was badly pitted.. I have made arrangements to photograph the bearings and will get them to the group as soon as I can. The rest of the bearings looked pretty good.. Good thing out of the way and a little piece of mind, considering I only purchased it 7 weeks ago... Photo's to come Regards Kiwi Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:58:27 +1100 From: Gary Roberts To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] 1991 80 Series Turbo Diesel Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Lobo Fraser wrote: > Hi all, > > I now the pages of 80 Series online has problems listed about big ends etc. > However apart from this problem the Vehicles seem a good one. I am considering > buying one which has done 280000Kms. I am not sure if the big ends have been > done. It a cost I will have to allow for. What I am after is a little bit of > advice on what to look with these vehicle and if 280000kms is to much. I will > be travelling in remote parts of QLD and NT in January and don't want to get > stuck. > > Thanks > Lobo Fraser > onelittlefish@bigpond.com Lobo, If the bearings have been done by Toyota there would have been a silver sticker placed near the inside hinge on the driver side door. This is a common practice with any recall/warranty work. If the numbers are still visible check their meaning with Toyota. Cheers, Gary From: Couyant_George@emc.com To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: [80] More big ends.... Date sent: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:58:48 -0500 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Another reminder for those of you who have not had their big end bearings checked on their 1HD-T ('90 - '95 turbo diesel) motors. Over the Christmas break, I was contacted by 7 people who's holiday was stuffed by big end related major engine failures. And that's only from those who know of the 80sCOOL site. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Norm Needham" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] More big ends.... Date sent: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:06:46 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: > Another reminder for those of you who have not had their big end bearings > checked on their 1HD-T ('90 - '95 turbo diesel) motors. > > Over the Christmas break, I was contacted by 7 people who's holiday was > stuffed by big end related major engine failures. And that's only from those > who know of the 80sCOOL site. > We cannot stress enough the need to be diligent in this area. We had one arrive on a tow truck today from Tamworth. Another ruined holiday; but not only that. The owner had gone to a Toyota dealer very recently and asked them to check it for him. The check involved the service adviser lifting the bonnet, listening for a few seconds, and pronouncing the engine healthy. The ONLY way to check the bearings properly is to remove them. Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com From: "Norm Needham" To: "80sCOOL" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] More big ends.... Date sent: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:44:41 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: Brian Combley > Norm > > I have one of the offending engines. What is the story with Toyota, mine > is a 92 manufacture 93 compliance plate. Do they offer any assistance / > parts or whatever or is it better to do the job yourself. I have a > reasonable workshop and tools but few special Toyota tools. > We assume "offending" means an engine in the suspect range; not one that has expired. Talk to your local dealer, and perhaps get the regional Toyota rep involved. Use a sane and amicable approach, and they should come to the party. It is obviously much cheaper, and good insurance, for Toyota to remove/check/replace your bearings now than to wear half the cost of a total rebuild later. When this problem first surfaced, Toyota, to their credit, was reimbursing those who had bearings replaced outside their dealer network. If "offending" means it has indeed expired, then Toyota should, again, come to the party. Recent cases of high kilometre vehicles have seen them pay half. GC may have more information on Toyota's current preparedness to commit? Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com From: "andrew westcott" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] re-more big ends Date sent: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:13:54 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Brian=20 i just had my big ends replaced and i was charged half the = costs($250).I only had 111 thousand k's up which i don't regard as high = mileage, but was told that Toyota were now winding back their payout's = on this repair as the problem is now becoming an old one.They told me = that they would be paying less as time rolled on.P.s. check with Toyota = to make sure your bearings have'nt already been replaced. Andrew From: "Kevin Hughes" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: RE: [80] More big ends.... Date sent: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:07:38 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Brian, Have not long had my 91 done in Coonabarabran, took some of the piccy's into the local Toy dealer and he was a little shocked and dis-believing. Any stuck to my guns and finally got Toy to go halves with the total cost..... a little more pressure and got the lovely lady at customer service to pay half of my half as well. finished up at $125Aus.. No.3 was stuffed and the rest were of reasonable condition. had 128kms on it at the time... Best of luck and stick with it, they will give in. Just as a side note at the same time a 92 came in with 400lms on it and had blown the motor. Had the bearings done at 380kms at full price to the owner..... Toy have paid for a full replacement mtr for this one.... one the group could keep in mind.. Keep Shining <> Kiwi From: "Kevin Hughes" To: "80 Series" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] FW: failure notice Date sent: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:17:27 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Brian, Ive had the vehicle for about 3-4 months now, I found out about the big end problem on 80 Series page. (thanks to the guys and gals). It has a good service record and the dealer was keen to see the books. It has been serviced regularly and I contacted the original owner who lives in SA. did the oil every 5000kms with out fail. Even did the changes in the Simpson Desert while he was travelling.. I beleive that the problem is with the bearing themselves, I think Toy Aust has admitted that by the offers they have put forward to TD owners over the past few years. You must stay at them and they will come to the party. The best I think is half these days, better than nothing. My dealer went to bat for me and got half of my half as well, I had just brought the vehicle and they did not want to pay the lot if it died...... Best of luck Keep shining <> Kev From: "Mazza, Stephen (HI)" To: "'80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com'" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: RE: [80] More big ends.... Date sent: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:14:44 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > > Another reminder for those of you who have not had their big end > bearings > > checked on their 1HD-T ('90 - '95 turbo diesel) motors. > > > > Over the Christmas break, I was contacted by 7 people who's holiday > was > > stuffed by big end related major engine failures. And that's only from > those > > who know of the 80sCOOL site. > > > Just back from holidays and caught this thread. And thought I would put my two bobs worth in. (Sorry 5c worth) Have a friend who has a '94 TD LC with 190K km. Big ends were done (At his cost, the idiot) by a less than reputable dealer in the south. @178K km (We were assuming they were never done before) @190K km bad Knocking and damage to head etc. etc. etc. Well he fixed the problem for good. Drove in to a local engine exchange shop. Drove out two days later with a 6.5 litre V8 diesel. He is now happy as a pig in s**t. By the way they gave him $2000 for the stuffed motor (1200 for turbo) Stephen Mazza Paraburdoo, Western Australia White '97 GXL Diesel, TJM Bar, Dual Batteries, Airtech Snorkel, PolyAirs From: "Peter Richmond" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: [80] Bearings Replaced "Thankyou!" Date sent: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:32:16 GMT Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Guy's I have just got my 91 4.2-TD back after getting the bearings replaced at 78000km's and guess what No 5 had flaked (about a 10 x 5mm piece)most happy that I prevented a possible tragedy. When the Vehicle first went in both the floor Foreman and Manager listened and could not identify a problem but agreed that I should get the job done, good thing I did. Canberra Toyota let me away with 50% Parts a Labour without question, very impressed with that. Please get yours done if you already haven't. Peter Richmond Canberra OZ P.S. It was about 3 months ago when I first found http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/ which highlighted this problem to me, so when I did finally purchase my 80 I had already resigned to the fact that I was to get the bearings looked at. So I would like to thank you. From: "Darren Byrne" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] Turbo - have I made right choice Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:27:27 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com G'day All, I recently ( 2 months ago ) purchased an 80 series, Diesel with factory fitted turbo. She is really pleasing to the eye - nice colour, off road tyres and high lift modified suspension kit. When I was ready to purchase the vehicle from the dealer they gave me paper work and receipts for proof that the previous owner had had a brand new engine fitted 40,000km ago, (costing $12,500 Aust). This was a real sales point as although the vehicle had done 160,000 since 1992 the new engine was relatively low in the km's. As proud as anything I brought her home and have been off road more times than on road, she runs like a 'pearler' and handles really well, leaving petrol Cruisers behind on some of the obstacles :) - lets not debate that one :^)))). I am now worried " have I made the right choice ?" I have read the problems with the big ends and the fact you can throw a conrod that has been posted on this site. Could anyone with experience with these problems or know what I am in for please get back to me. According to the report the big ends need checking after around 100,000 and if wear is found then the crankshaft could go in a further 40,000 km. Even if I check them regularly say every 40,000km and replace the big ends as a matter of insurance against the problem the Crank shaft is another problem. I was advised to go diesel when looking around as long as the turbo was there as diesel engines are supposed to go on and on and on. Any help, comments appreciated Many thanks Darren Perth Western Australia From: "Mick Barson" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Turbo - have I made right choice[reply] Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:32:30 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Byrne" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2000 4:27 Subject: [80] Turbo - have I made right choice > G'day All, > > I recently ( 2 months ago ) purchased an 80 series, Diesel with factory > fitted turbo. She is really pleasing to the eye - nice colour, off road > tyres and high lift modified suspension kit. When I was ready to purchase the > vehicle from the dealer they gave me paper work and receipts for proof that > the previous owner had had a brand new engine fitted 40,000km ago, (costing > $12,500 Aust). > > This was a real sales point as although the vehicle had done 160,000 since > 1992 the new engine was relatively low in the km's. > > As proud as anything I brought her home and have been off road more times than > on road, she runs like a 'pearler' and handles really well, leaving petrol > Cruisers behind on some of the obstacles :) - lets not debate that one :^)))). > > I am now worried " have I made the right choice ?" I have read the problems > with the big ends and the fact you can throw a conrod that has been posted on > this site. > > Could anyone with experience with these problems or know what I am in for > please get back to me. According to the report the big ends need checking > after around 100,000 and if wear is found then the crankshaft could go in a > further 40,000 km. Even if I check them regularly say every 40,000km and > replace the big ends as a matter of insurance against the problem the Crank > shaft is another problem. I was advised to go diesel when looking around as > long as the turbo was there as diesel engines are supposed to go on and on and > on. > > Any help, comments appreciated > > Many thanks > > Darren > Perth Western Australia G'day Darren, Dont let the doom & gloom merchants put you off your choice of Cruisers, (I hope its white??) Those Red ones had all sorts of problems....;-).....Ok some questions, When you say Brand New Engine, is it exactly that? A genuine Toyota newby, or exchange Re-con? What is the warranty?....Did you purchase the 80 of a Toyota Dealer? I am interested to hear why a "New motor" was fitted at 160k, did the bearings and Crank let go?............ Where in Perth do you live, and dont stress there are more good 1HDT's than bad running around Cheers Mick (West Aussie) 1HD-FT Auto, ickbar@southwest.com.au http://www.southwest.com.au/~ickbar ICQ#39756961 From: "Darren Byrne" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Turbo - have I made right choice[ to mick baron reply] Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:42:59 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Hi, > I am interested to hear why a "New motor" was fitted at 160k, did the > bearings and Crank let go?............ ok this is the report I got on the motor - it threw a conrod at 136,000km. Faults found on disasembly of engine; 1. big end bearings damaged 2. Crankshaft journal damaged due to lack of oil pressure 3. Hole in block from broken Conrod 4. Front pulley bolt seized in crankshaft 5. Oil pump drive loose on conrod report: All the above faults were due to the front pulley bolt being seized and not locating the pulley which has allowed the oil pump drive to come to loose I know this was not because of the big end shells going but I read the report on this site and got worried. As for the type of engine it appears to be a new block or a reconditioned one but the costing was $7,500 (aust) the total bill came to $12,500 (aust) now they may have bought a new block and recond the head - I dunno. > Cruisers, (I hope its white??) Those Red ones had all sorts of > problems....;-)..... heh heh - nah mines the fastest - metallic bronze I think they call it 'Champagne' > Ok some questions, When you say Brand New Engine, is it > exactly that? A genuine Toyota newby, or exchange Re-con? What is the > warranty?....Did you purchase the 80 of a Toyota Dealer? Warranty - dunno cause I only just bought it, and I bought it off a Jeep dealer. > > Where in Perth do you live, and dont stress there are more good 1HDT's than > bad running around Wanneroo - where are you? regards Darren From: Couyant_George@emc.com To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: RE: [80] Turbo - have I made right choice Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:04:19 -0500 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > I am now worried " have I made the right choice ?" I have read the > problems > Darren, you can rest easy. If the maintenance details and mileage is correct you have nothing to worry about. Just to clear up your confusion, damage to the crankshaft occurs when a bearing fails. It's directly related to the condition of the bearing. A diesel cruiser crank should last forever. As for the conrods, again it's directly related to bearing failure. If I had bought a used 1HD-T, no matter what the service records said, I'd still drop the sump and check the big ends. It's not a big job. The dollars are nothing compared to the peace of mind you'll have. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Peter Richmond" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: [80] Big End Bolts "Shear Bolts"? Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:18:15 GMT Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com I just got my bearings done great, However I have since been told that when you replace the bearings the Bolts holding the caps on should also be replaced. Is this correct that they should only be tensioned once or is this bull. I would really like some feed back on this. Thanks. PeterR (OZ) From: Rick Hunter 0418 398 332 To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: RE: [80] Big End Bolts "Shear Bolts"? Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 20000 20:47 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:18:15, PeterR (OZ) wrote: > I just got my bearings done great, However I have since been told that when > you replace the bearings the Bolts holding the caps on should also be > replaced. Is this correct that they should only be tensioned once or is this > bull. > I would really like some feed back on this. > Thanks. > > PeterR (OZ) > Hi Peter, The Toyota Diesel engine repair manual is fairly concise...... B. INSTALL CONNECTING ROD CAP BOLTS hint: The connecting rod cap bolts are tightened in two progressive steps... If any of the connecting rod bolts break or deform. replace them."\plain\f2\fs20\cf1\b Regards, Rick Hunter\plain\f2\fs20\cf1\b From: Couyant_George@emc.com To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: RE: [80] Big End Bolts "Shear Bolts"? Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:45:50 -0500 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > I just got my bearings done great, However I have since been told that > when > you replace the bearings the Bolts holding the caps on should also be > replaced. Is this correct that they should only be tensioned once or is > this > They can be reused and it's quite acceptable to do so. Normally replaced if they fail to reach the specified torque. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:40:21 +0000 From: Joao Rangel Subject: [80] intercooler/big-end problems To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [80] Countries..france,iceland,..... > On 3 Feb 00 at 23:42, Joao Rangel wrote: > > > Hello List! > > Greetings from Portugal! > > I live in Viana do Castelo,north of Portugal and I am a member for some days > > now.It's a fantastic list with lots of useful information.Like you all,my > > passion is the 80,but as a Land Cruiser passionate I also own an 1982 HJ 60 > > that completed 400k km today and a HDJ 100 that's one year old.My 80 is > > a1991 HD-T and is pretty standard but i'm trying to do some mods,like an > > intercooler,decent suspension,and intercooler.The main problem here is lack > > of information and difficulty on the imports from OZ and USA -the > > transport+custom taxes are very heavy for countries outside EEC. > > Anyway you are all a great help! > > Joao, > > Are you already aware of the big-end problems with 1HD-T engines > ('90-95)? > > Have them checked ASAP, before doing any mod's to your engine! Check > my homepage for both the link to the specific 80-series chapter on > this subject, as well as a link to the site/guy/shop who first got > the ball rolling (also down under): > > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/mainpage.htm > > I also have collected a large amount of big-end related postings from > this list (not HTML'ized yet, but present as /80bigend.txt instead > of /mainpage.htm). > > For a nice intercooler, you might want to contact the Dutch shop > that did my intercooler as well, they ship all over Europe: > > All American Imports > (Maarten Verschure) > Veerweg 6 > Kaatsheuvel > The Netherlands, Europe > > Voice: +31 416 540167 > Fax: +31 416 272304 Hello W.J.! Thanks for your concern.As I said you're all a great help and this is the proof! I have already asked Toyota Portugal about big-end problems but they are a bit on the "hermetic"/"vague" side,I think mainly because of ignorance on the matter, as there are so few 80's here(probably less than 200).Some of them are european imports as in my case-came from Germany.The portuguese importer only started to sell 80's in 1995 with the 1HD-TE 24 valve engine;before that,they only sold 3,throug a subsidiary company,in 1993.The first time I heard about this problem was exactly in you superb homepage in july 99!That said I must give them some credit because i know they are trying to get information on that.Also I must praise my local dealer and his team because they are realy helpful and proud of the Toyota brand and help me keeping my three babies in top condition at a very reasonable cost(that's no big deal,they never brake...). I shall fax the supplier you indicated for the intercooler.Can you also give me the fax/e-mail of HT shocks and an european retailer for high capacity fuel tanks? Thanks again and meet you soon! Joao Rangel From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:18:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [80] intercooler/big-end problems Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com On 10 Feb 00 at 0:40, Joao Rangel wrote: > Hello W.J.! > Thanks for your concern.As I said you're all a great help and this is the > proof! I have already asked Toyota Portugal about big-end problems but they > are a bit on the "hermetic"/"vague" side,I think mainly because of ignorance > on the matter, as there are so few 80's here(probably less than 200).Some of > them are european imports as in my case-came from Germany.The portuguese > importer only started to sell 80's in 1995 with the 1HD-TE 24 valve > engine;before that,they only sold 3,throug a subsidiary company,in 1993.The > first time I heard about this problem was exactly in you superb homepage in > july 99!That said I must give them some credit because i know they are trying > to get information on that. If they 'try' just as hard as both German and Dutch distributors, you will only hear from them after a fatal seizure, in wording such as 'despite the fact that your manual doesn't say anything about servicing injectors, nor recommended intervals, we are sure your lack of injector service has caused this fatal seizure.' I know several German 1HD-T owners who got stuffed this way. Don't let this happen to you! Rule #0 on this list should be: NEVER EVER TRUST DEALER NOR DISTRIBUTOR (NOR MANUFACTURER). >Also I must praise my local dealer and his > team because > they are realy helpful and proud of the Toyota brand and help me keeping my > three babies in top condition at a very reasonable cost(that's no big > deal,they never brake...). All they have to do is check those bearings!....more labor than parts, and labor isn't that expensive in Portugal....:-)) Otherwise make a trip to Holland, and visit my shop....he has replaced dozens of crook bearings by now (I was actually the first to point him to this problem....his own 80 was on the hoist the very next day....Sunday....:-)) > I shall fax the supplier you indicated for the intercooler.Can you also give > me the fax/e-mail of HT shocks and an european retailer for high capacity > fuel tanks? Thanks again and meet you soon! HT-Suspension Systems (Manufacturing and design of automotive suspension) Nijverheidsweg 17 NL-7255 RA Hengelo (GLD) [*] The Netherlands, Europe Voice: (+31) 0575 462870 Fax: (+31) 0575 463755 [*] Gelderland district, not Overijssel, if you ever plan to drive up there....Hengelo GLD is a small town, Hengelo OV is a larger town (and only the latter will show on most maps) Ask for Henk Hellegers or Coen Terhorst, tell'em I sent you (although Coen might resort to an rather unusual sense of humor when you do....;-)). The only downside of their 80 program is that they don't offer any rear spring between normal-load and extreme-heavy (for a 4.5 ton armoured 80). Silly me, thinking that they must have designed a stronger one for heavier 100-series (which is compatible with 80-series)....not so....the OEM 100-series rear spring is softer than for 80's, so the HT unit is also softer than the one for the 80. However, they did confirm that the 3500kg press/service 80 that went into Dakar had the same 4.5 ton rear springs....might not be too stiff for my purposes afterall (190L tank and twin-rear carrier, plus cargo).... As for European tanks: All American Imports sells TJM tanks (still not sure whether all those are Lone Ranger units), but you can slightly larger tanks from Woick in Germany (probably www.woick.de), like 190L instead of 170 for 80's, and 210L instead of 190L for 60's (the latter only replacement tanks, not add-on). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:43:32 +1100 (EST) From: Andre Sabeeney Subject: [80] BIG END BEARING'S "does the problem ever go? To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Now I am distressed I have a 1991 T/D with good service history. On the 21/2/99 with 174,000 kms on the clock the car was driven into toyota with failing big end bearings. Toyota was very nice about it and decided to replace them no charge to me. Less than 12 months have past and with 52,000 kms on the new bearings, my mechanic (ex toyota mechanic, now own bussiness "repco") has just informed me that the bearings are stuffed once again, and according to him this is nothing unusual, he has three other's in a very similar situation to mine.Anyone heard this before ? But the best bit is that I thought I would drop it of to the toyota dealer and ask them to check it and see if it would be once again covered under warranty, after having the car for a day they now inform me that there is no problem and had two mechanics check it and all is OK. The amazing twist to this story is that when I asked should we drop the sump and make sure there is no problem their response was "no it would not be necessary", they also said that there is no charge for the check and so currently I have no proof they even checked it. I know there is a problem as my oil pressure is dropping and there is a ticking sound at the bottom of the motor. same as before. On monday the car will be into my mechanic, with the sump off and I will invite the toyota service manager down to inspect them with us. Any advice would be most welcome !!!! Next issue is I have a 91 T/D for sale if any is interested "sure". I will be looking for a 95+ GXL 4.5 petrol as soon as possible if anyone knows of a good car. I have had enough of the so called "reliability" of a diesel. If some one could offer there thoughts as 95 V's 96 models it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Andre Sabeeney Burra SA From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Date sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:12:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [80] BIG END BEARING'S "does the problem ever go? Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com On 14 Feb 00 at 15:43, Andre Sabeeney wrote: > > Now I am distressed I have a 1991 T/D with good > service history. On the 21/2/99 with 174,000 kms > on > the clock the car was driven into toyota with > failing > big end bearings. Toyota was very nice about it > and > decided to replace them no charge to me. Less > than > 12 > months have past and with 52,000 kms on the new > bearings, my mechanic (ex toyota mechanic, now > own > bussiness "repco") has just informed me that the > bearings are stuffed once again, and according > to him > this is nothing unusual, he has three other's in > a > very similar situation to mine.Anyone heard this > before ? > But the best bit is > that I thought I would drop it of to the toyota > dealer > and ask them to check it and see if it would be > once > again covered under warranty, after having the > car > for > a day they now inform me that there is no > problem > and > had two mechanics check it and all is OK. The > amazing > twist to this story is that when I asked should > we > drop the sump and make sure there is no problem > their > response was "no it would not be necessary", > they > also > said that there is no charge for the check and > so > currently I have no proof they even checked it. > I > know > there is a problem as my oil pressure is > dropping > and > there is a ticking sound at the bottom of the > motor. > same as before. > On monday the car will be into my mechanic, with > the > sump off and I will invite the toyota service > manager > down to inspect them with us. > > Any advice would be most welcome !!!! If your bearings were replaced with *proper* new OEM bearings (superceeded part number!), of *equal* size (or one size smaller, as my shop does), then you basically have what a +'95 1HD-FT has right from the factory (and the odd '+95 1HD-T that runs around in remote parts of this globe as well (still do btw, in a HDJ-100 (yep, IFS too)). > > Next issue is I have a 91 T/D for sale if any is > interested "sure". I will be looking for a 95+ > GXL > 4.5 > petrol as soon as possible if anyone knows of a > good > car. I have had enough of the so called > "reliability" > of a diesel. If some one could offer there > thoughts > as > 95 V's 96 models it would be > greatly appreciated. Andre Andre, jy moet jouw diesel nie verkopen nie!....Rudolf D. sal erg boos op jou wees!....;-)) Willem ('90 1HD-T with replaced bearings, intercooled, 200k and still going strong) Jan -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "George Couyant" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Re Long Range tanks Date sent: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:55:31 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > not beeing a smart allik here, but i have a (80) 90 1hdt turbo deisel (185000kms) > (ps no new bearings yet). It is my work truck. (alarm install northen beaches,syd tappa...tapppa...tappa...BOOM... Get them done now. I don't want to add you to the list, especially as you know of the problem. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Brian Combley" To: "Toyota Users Group" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] Big End Bearings West Oz. Date sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:18:05 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Gang Just had my Turbo Diesel in for the big end bearing replacement. Only one had started to flake and a piece of the flaky material had gone round the shell and scored it. All others were just a bit shiny looking at the centre of the bottom shell. Vehicle had done about 150,000 kms. Had the tappets done whilst it was in there and they had closed up quite a bit. Others were noisy runs quieter now. Very Pleased with the service and attitude of Busselton Toyota nothing was too much trouble and they listened to what I had to say about a few other things then fixed them.... Can recommend them if you are down the South of Western Australia Brian From: "mic.herrmann(smick)" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] BIG END BEARINGS (third set 1HD-T) Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 01:31:49 -0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com -----Original Message----- From: George Couyant To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [80] Re Long Range tanks >> not beeing a smart allik here, but i have a (80) 90 1hdt turbo deisel (185000kms) >> (ps no new bearings yet). It is my work truck. (alarm install northen beaches,syd > >tappa...tapppa...tappa...BOOM... > >Get them done now. I don't want to add you to the list, especially as >you know of the problem. > >Cheers >gc > >'97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz as advised by GC, get them looked at NOW. As I am the third owner of this great rig, and not had any good luck at finding out the service / repair history,had my bearings done this week! My shop told me that when they had a look--? that the sump had been off and that the big end bearing caps had been numbered (with punch dots),and the fact that the bearings looked fair, that they had been done b4 . The gxl is a 90 year model with 180k kms on it. The bad news was that some one had used the same type of toyota bearings as replacement, AND they also (one anyway) had just started to flake, (see bearings on 80s info/tech site). My shop put in some ACL beagings and sujest that they will be ok for another 200k kms. bottom line is , once done the problem may not be over (forgotten!) mic syd (smick) (80) 90, 1hd-t, gxl, tjm, h/r t bar, airtech, off road rack,lights, loud, 27 cb, tint, fridge, ome, diesel @ $93 for 800ks in town on both tanks, and now with new bearings. :--)) ��. From: "mic.herrmann(smick)" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] BIG END BEARINGS (third set 1HD-T) Date sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:28:37 -0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com -----Original Message----- From: Dave Kinder > smicksecurity@bigpond.com 03/16/00 08:31PM wrote: >>> >> >> My shop put in some ACL beagings and sujest that they will be >> ok for another 200k kms. >> bottom line is , once done the problem may not be over (forgotten!) > > good-day > who is ACL > bearings could you please give me some info, > dave > 93 1hd-t lots on it Dear Dave thanks for the interest . my shop has used these ACL bearings for a very long time. all i can tell you (with out asking the boys that did the service at short notice, p.s. no afilliation or back handers) by looking at the box. The new bearings are from :-- ACL Duraglide (tm) , 780 . MADE IN AUSTRALIA. part #s CB-1436A R707A 6B8396-STD. to suit / toyota: 1HD-T , 1HZ (small wrighting on box) Automotive Components Ltd 253-293 George town rd Rocherlea TAS. hope this helps :--) �� . any more info ? Email me off list, ta, smick. From: "Norm Needham" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] BIG END BEARINGS (third set 1HD-T) Date sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:52:45 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: mic.herrmann(smick) > >who is ACL bearings could you please give me some info, >dave >93 1hd-t lots on it > >The bad news was that some one had used the same type of toyota started to >flake, (see bearings on 80s info/tech site). >my shop has used these ACL bearings for a very long time. >all i can tell you (with out asking the boys that did the service at short Mic (smick) and Dave, A couple of comments if I may: The chances are that the bearings that had been replaced were done by a Toyota dealer. They always use genuine parts. When this problem first appeared, specialist 4WD shops generally used (and still use) ACL bearings. ACL is a well respected manufacturer of engine components and do in fact produce a lot of OEM parts for the auto industry. Rest assured that their bearings are of high quality. Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction 4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com Trac4@telstra.com From: "George Couyant" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] BIG END BEARINGS (third set 1HD-T) Date sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:59:55 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > The chances are that the bearings that had been replaced were done by a > Toyota dealer. They always use genuine parts. Depending on when it was done and whether they used the original bearings or the newer shell. I haven't come across any failed new style bearings but it's probably early to tell. In any case they're still aluminium/tin bearings which is unusual in a light diesel. > When this problem first appeared, specialist 4WD shops generally used > (and still use) ACL bearings. Which are copper/lead bearings found in almost any light diesel. The base material seems to be much more stable than the factory part. I haven't found any instances of these failing either. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz From: "Bryan Pollard" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Re:[80] Dropped big-end bearing 1HD-T Date sent: Sat, 6 May 2000 13:30:27 +1200 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Driving to work the other day doing 110kms along flat stretch of road, suddenly a knocking noise resounded from engine area. I immediately pulled over and stopped the motor and upon inspection found no obvious cause. Restarted and "knock, knock",etc. (I thought big end bearings straight away) A mechanic came today and confirmed this as bearing problems. Hard case considering there was plenty of oil in sump and pressure on the gauge. I had the compression checked recently and all cylinders read between 30 & 28 Bar on the gauge. The motor looks clean under the rocker cover. Has new oil and filter. Speedo has 173,000km on it. I have owned it for only 3 weeks having bought it off a dealer who tells me he'll "sort it out". I have heard that this model is prone to this sort of problem. I don't want to have the standard bearings replacement parts installed if they are like to fail like that again later. What type should we replace them with, and where can I get a hold of them? What is the likelihood of crankshaft/conrod, etc, damage? Hope some one can help with this one. Thanks, Bryan Pollard Auckland, New Zealand. From: "graham porter" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Re:[80] Dropped big-end bearing 1HD-T Date sent: Sat, 6 May 2000 19:49:57 +0930 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pollard" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Saturday, 6 May 2000 11:00 Subject: Re: Re:[80] Dropped big-end bearing 1HD-T > Driving to work the other day doing 110kms along flat stretch of road, > suddenly a knocking noise resounded from engine area. > I immediately pulled over and stopped the motor and upon inspection found no > obvious cause. Restarted and "knock, knock",etc. (I thought big end bearings > straight away) > A mechanic came today and confirmed this as bearing problems. end snip G'Day Brian I Had exactly the same thing happen at 172000 kms, no forewarning such as low oil pressure etc etc, I had mine shipped from the bush where it broke down to an ADELAIDE dealer , ( it dropped its bundle 90 kms north of Charleville QLD ) , and sure enough 3 of the bearings ceased to exist, and crank was stuffed . After a lot of aggro with the Adelaide dealer I rang the TOYOTA customer service line and we agreed on a figure to repair the engine. I have since clocked up 50,000kms and no probs, also a fair bit of this mileage was towing a heavy caravan, 20 footer with shower etc GVM 2560 kgms and the cruiser has the long range tanks fitted so all up it has been carrying a fair whack of tonnage weight).. Cruiser is now in 230,000kms range and still sounds healthy.. Cheers Graham & Cathy Porter..( South Aust) From: "Brendan & Judy O'Brien" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Re:[80] Dropped big-end bearing 1HD-T Date sent: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:46:14 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com >Restarted and "knock, knock",etc. (I thought big end bearings >straight away) Bryan, Sorry to read about your engine drama, what you have is a well known and publicised problem with the 1HD-T (on this list anyway). Refer to the tech pages http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/tech/technical.html for more info. I'd be a bit concerned about the crankshaft journals and if the dealer you bought the vehicle does the repair he may be tempted to do a dodgy fix and replace bearings only (being a bit cynical here). Wouldn't be a bad idea to contact Toyotas Head Office in NZ and complain bitterly as they were coming to the party in most cases(may pay for some of the cost). Wish you luck, keep us informed. Cheers;-) Brendan Pomona Qld 94GXL 1fz-fe From: "Graham Boulter" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] 1HD-T big end bearings & service cost Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:36:23 +1000 Organization: Melbourne PC User Group, Australia Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Hi all I'm a new member of the group, having recently purchased a 93 GXL turbo diesel with 118.000 kms. Previous vehicles have been a FJ55 & FJ62. I became aware of the bearing problem thanks to the 80sCOOL web site. Anyway armed with the knowledge I gained I went to my local Toyota dealer from whom I had purchased the cruiser. To cut a long story short the bearings were removed (& found to be perfectly OK), & replaced in 3 days. Toyota would pay half labour & parts. All up cost to me was about $200. Good news. Bad news however was I decided to have a full 120,000 kms service done. Cost of service was approx $1050, made up of 7.5 hrs labour - $500, the rest in parts (front axle seals, filters, oils etc). The service manager said this was about the norm. Is this for real or have I been taken for a very expensive ride? Ned Kelly is alive and well. Bye for now Graham Boulter From: "Bryan R Pollard" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80]Bearing, etc latest update... Date sent: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 10:49:45 +1200 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com It so turns out that after the head was stripped what we found was a cracked VALVE GUIDE. This is what was embedded in the top of the piston. Also, the cam cap had popped So it's going to be NEW rings, ACL bearings, valve guides, 2 x new valves, crack test head, re-hone bores, cam cap, cam belt. Then we'll be mobile again in the beloved beast. Thanks for your replies on the oil. Regards, Bryan Pollard VX 1HD-T, Bocar Bars, Alloys. PO Box 101-793 North Shore Mail Centre Auckland New Zealand PH: 025-909-816 From: "Gary Satara" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 08:38:11 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Fitzpatrick To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 13:18 Subject: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings > To all > I have been a member on this list for about a year now and have been > surprised of the similar problems that the 80 has. It has been very > informative and helpful. Keep up the good work. > > I hate to bring up this problem again but the 80 that I have (its actually my > parents) is a '92 HDJ80. I am a little worried with the big end bearing > problem that they have. I asked the local Toyota dealer about it and his > response was "its not making any noises is it? There is no point pulling down > the motor and spending money if its not making any noises." From what > I have heard on this list, the only way to check them is to inspect them > individually so I do not trust the dealer one bit on his assessment of the > situation. It was only in there last week because the clutch had just started > slipping. They then told dad that it was not slipping after taking it for a > drive. Dad told them to release the clutch with their foot on the brake with > it in gear. They came back to the phone and said, "maybe it is slipping a bit" > The LC has done 265,000 klms and has a very poor service record. I.e. not > uncommon for oil change intervals nearing 10,000 klms. We had our own mechanic > at our equipment hire business (sold 2 years ago) or a mechanic that was > renting one of our properties do the services. This has left the service book > with only 4 pages ripped out of it. > > Now in this position I would like to ask these questions: > > 1. Due to its mileage and service record, are the bearings likely to be all > right and not need replacing? > > 2. Being a little price conscience(I will not be paying for it anyway), > mechanically minded and having the Gregory's manual, I was thinking maybe it > is possible for me to do it myself. Is it only a matter of pulling the sump > off, pull off the conrod cap and replace the two shells for each conrod and > replace the sump or are there likely to be problems with ovality or taper of > the big end journal. Also will I have to have a stock of shells to pick the > correct size? > > 3. If I got the Toyota dealer to do them will they put in original bearings > that may fail again. The only good thing I can see with this is maybe > getting a warranty anyway so failure would be covered by Toyota. (and > possibly getting them to do it at a reduced price) > Or am I better off taking it to a reputable 4wd shop in Melbourne that will > put in ACL bearings that do not ever seem to have another problem and having > peace of mind? > > 4. If I did inspect them individually and they were alright, would they be > fine to put back in? > > 5. What are the costs for this to be done and if I did it myself would I be > taking a risk of destroying the motor without a warranty. > > 6. Whilst the sump is off, should I check anything else in there. > > Can anybody throw any light on this or tell me how I can check it out for > myself. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Sean Fitzpatrick > Sean, Assuming it is the turbo engine 1HDT changing the bearings is no big deal. I used a good aftermarket set of standard bearings, new genuine conrod bolts torqued to 27ft/lbs plus 90 degrees and keep everything scrupulously clean. Obviously the crank needs to be in perfect condition. Cheap insurance and now I sleep at night. As they say, "just do it". The list may correct anything I have said in error. Regards, Gary. From: "Trond Tokt" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: SV: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Date sent: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:40:43 +0200 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > From: avmartin@59Lawnside.freeserve.co.uk > Sendt: 7. september 2000 20:15 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Trond Tokt" > > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 10:20 PM > > > > > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > > > Fra: owner-80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > > > [mailto:owner-80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com] P_ vegne avSean Fitzpatrick > > > Sendt: 5. september 2000 04:19 > > > Til: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > > > Emne: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings > > > > > > To all > > > I have been a member on this list for about a year now and have been > > > surprised of the similar problems that the 80 has. It has been very > > > informative and helpful. Keep up the good work. > > > > > > I hate to bring up this problem again but the 80 that I have (its actually my > > > parents) is a '92 HDJ80. I am a little worried with the big end bearing > > > problem that they have. I asked the local Toyota dealer about it and his > > > response was "its not making any noises is it? There is no point pulling down > > > the motor and spending money if its not making any noises." From what > > > I have heard on this list, the only way to check them is to inspect them > > > individually so I do not trust the dealer one bit on his assessment of the > > > situation. It was only in there last week because the clutch had just started > > > slipping. They then told dad that it was not slipping after taking it for a > > > drive. Dad told them to release the clutch with their foot on the brake with > > > it in gear. They came back to the phone and said, "maybe it is slipping a bit" > > > The LC has done 265,000 klms and has a very poor service record. I.e. not > > > uncommon for oil change intervals nearing 10,000 klms. We had our own mechanic > > > at our equipment hire business (sold 2 years ago) or a mechanic that was > > > renting one of our properties do the services. This has left the service book > > > with only 4 pages ripped out of it. > > > > > > Now in this position I would like to ask these questions: > > > > > > 1. Due to its mileage and service record, are the bearings likely to be all > > > right and not need replacing? > > > > > > 2. Being a little price conscience(I will not be paying for it anyway), > > > mechanically minded and having the Gregory's manual, I was thinking maybe it > > > is possible for me to do it myself. Is it only a matter of pulling the sump > > > off, pull off the conrod cap and replace the two shells for each conrod and > > > replace the sump or are there likely to be problems with ovality or taper of > > > the big end journal. Also will I have to have a stock of shells to pick the > > > correct size? > > > > > > 3. If I got the Toyota dealer to do them will they put in original bearings > > > that may fail again. The only good thing I can see with this is maybe > > > getting a warranty anyway so failure would be covered by Toyota. (and > > > possibly getting them to do it at a reduced price) > > > Or am I better off taking it to a reputable 4wd shop in Melbourne that will > > > put in ACL bearings that do not ever seem to have another problem and having > > > peace of mind? > > > > > > 4. If I did inspect them individually and they were alright, would they be > > > fine to put back in? > > > > > > 5. What are the costs for this to be done and if I did it myself would I be > > > taking a risk of destroying the motor without a warranty. > > > > > > 6. Whilst the sump is off, should I check anything else in there. > > > > > > Can anybody throw any light on this or tell me how I can check it out for > > > myself. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Sean Fitzpatrick > > > > > > > Sean. > > The bearings are only US$ 50,- Don't put back the old ones. > > > > Trond, is to leave the 1995 HDJ80 at 111k's at the shop on Wednesday for > > replacing the bearings. > > > > Hi Trond > > How did the bearing change go, what was the condition of the old ones? > > Martin Very well, thank you. The bearings look very good. There was one with two VERY SMALL scratches and one with a few VERY small darker spots. 0,5 mm in size. I guess it's a start for the compound to breaking up? Cost: USD 290,- including labour (3 hours) parts and tax. The 1HD-T has 111k's and had run on MOBIL1 from day one. Trond, with his worries settled. From: "Norm Needham" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] 1HD-T Big End Bearings Date sent: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:27:27 +1000 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: Trond Tokt > Very well, thank you. The bearings look very good. There was one with two > VERY SMALL scratches and one with a few VERY small darker spots. 0,5 mm in > size. I guess it's a start for the compound to breaking up? > Cost: USD 290,- including labour (3 hours) parts and tax. > > The 1HD-T has 111k's and had run on MOBIL1 from day one. > > Trond, with his worries settled. > Interesting Trond, I reported a year or so ago that one we had done was OK after running all its life on Mobil 1. All others were showing bad signs. Cheers * Norm Needham * * Traction4 / ARB Northside * Sydney, Australia * Trac4@bigpond.com Trac4@telstra.com From: "stephen_elliott" To: "80 series Landcruiser List" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) Date sent: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:41:12 +1030 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com G/Day all When I bought my 92 Turbo DeiselCruiser, I was informed by the salesman, = about a problem with the bearings, with Turbo Diesels, so I rang Toyota = Australia in Sydney, and they told me that there was a problem with a = few cruisers, and they were fixed by Toyota with extended warrantees, = and if I was bothered by this, Maybe I should spend $300-$400 and take = it to a Toyota Repair shop and have them inspected. Could some of you experienced cruiser owners please advise me on which = way to go. Regards Stephen in South Australia=20 Date sent: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 06:16:42 +1000 To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: Stuart McMurtrie Subject: Re: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com At 08:41 11-11-00 +1030, you wrote: >G/Day all > >When I bought my 92 Turbo DeiselCruiser, I was informed by the salesman, about a problem with the bearings, with Turbo Diesels, so I rang Toyota Australia in Sydney, and they told me that there was a problem with a few cruisers, and they were fixed by Toyota with extended warrantees, and if I was bothered by this, Maybe I should spend $300-$400 and take it to a Toyota Repair shop and have them inspected. > >Could some of you experienced cruiser owners please advise me on which way to go. > >Regards > >Stephen >in South Australia Save yourself heaps of grief and money and have them replaced - it will be cheap insurance and peace of mind. See the tech pages http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/tech/td_bearings.html for more compelling information. Stuart McMurtrie Brisbane From: "Mick Barson" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) Date sent: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:00:31 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephen_elliott" To: "80 series Landcruiser List" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Saturday, 11 November 2000 6:11 Subject: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) G/Day all When I bought my 92 Turbo DeiselCruiser, I was informed by the salesman, about a problem with the bearings, with Turbo Diesels, so I rang Toyota Australia in Sydney, and they told me that there was a problem with a few cruisers, and they were fixed by Toyota with extended warrantees, and if I was bothered by this, Maybe I should spend $300-$400 and take it to a Toyota Repair shop and have them inspected. Could some of you experienced cruiser owners please advise me on which way to go. Regards Stephen in South Australia ------------------------------------------------------------- G'day Stephen, welcome. If the Dealer bought it to your attention, a good idea would have been to make it a subject of sale to have the bearings replaced? Yes it has been well documented about the bearing issues regarding the 1HDT, If you do not know the history of the vehicle and whether the bearings have been checked/changed then I suggest you get them done. The few hundred $$ spent could save you thousands. As far as vehicles only with extended warranty's being fixed by Toyota, that is false...There have been quiet a few that have been fixed out of warranty completely, the problem now lies with the time factor, vehicles that are up to 10-6 years old now have a fair "mileage" and are getting looked at as a maintainence procedure, not as warranty. On the subject of lights, Bushy has suggested LightForce, I would also consider them as my next set. Check out the Tech pages, http://reality.sgi.com/80_series/tech/technical.html Cheers Mick (West Aussie) 97' 1HD-FT Auto, ickbar@southwest.com.au http://www.southwest.com.au/~ickbar From: grahamb@melbpc.org.au To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Date sent: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:55:03 +1100 Subject: Re: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com > G/Day all > > When I bought my 92 Turbo DeiselCruiser, I was informed by the salesman, about > a problem with the bearings, with Turbo Diesels, so I rang Toyota Australia in > Sydney, and they told me that there was a problem with a few cruisers, and > they were fixed by Toyota with extended warrantees, and if I was bothered by this, Maybe I should spend $300-$400 and take it to a Toyota Repair shop and have them inspected. > > Could some of you experienced cruiser owners please advise me on which way to go. > > Regards > > Stephen > in South Australia > Hi Stephen I purchased a 93 GXL turbo about 8 months ago from a Toyota dealer in Melbourne. Unlike you the salesman didn't inform me of the bearing problem - I learnt it from this list. When I approached the dealer about it they said as there was no fault at present with the bearings (after the Service Manager listened to the engine) they would not replace the bearings under warranty. However as the vehicle had only travelled 125,000 kms the Service Manager said there was a stong possibility Toyota Aust. would "come to the party and contribute towards the replacement costs", but could not tell me before the bearings were actually inspected & removed. Anyway the bearings were replaced (although they were OK) by the dealer, Toyota Aust paid for 1/2 parts & labour & it only ended up costing me about $200. Well worth it for peace of mind I reckon. Regards Graham Boulter From: "alvin" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) Date sent: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:42:05 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com hello, l was in the same situation as you and l spent the $400 to get = someone to look at it, . $400 now is cheaper than a rebuild of the motor = later on!!!!! Trust me its worth doing, when l got mine looked at the bearing had = already being changed. From: "Andrew Frost" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] Turbo Deisel (Bearing Trouble) Date sent: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:37:39 +1030 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Stephen I am also from South Australia and have 2 buddies with early model Turbo = Diesels, one has done about 250k and I talked him into getting them = checked. The shop called him up to inspect when removed and they looked = like they were only a few revolutions away from disaster. The second has = done about 330k and his were not nearly as bad but had them changed = regardless.=20 As everyone else has stated $400-$500 cheap insurance. =20 Andrew Frost Disclaimer-The above is only the opinion of a petrol cruiser owner not a = briquette burner........ From: "Dennis Driver" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:17:10 +1030 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Hi all just checked the tech pages, says all from 91 to 94 12 valve engines need checking. I ask because was looking around in a yard today (Toyota Dealer) looked at a late 93 HD-T with 70k on it asked if the bearings had been checked, was informed that they did not need it ! anything after Jan. 93 was safe, Toyota had done a recall in Dec 92 and all vehicles after that date had no problems. Sorry if this has been done to death but its not a line I followed owning a petrol, & a member of the family is now after a TD. Regards DD From: "Ian B" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:16:01 +0930 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com From: Dennis Driver > Hi all just checked the tech pages, says all from 91 to 94 12 valve > engines need checking. I ask because was looking around in a yard today > (Toyota Dealer) looked at a late 93 HD-T with 70k on it asked if the > bearings had been checked, was informed that they did not need it ! > anything after Jan. 93 was safe, Toyota had done a recall in Dec 92 and all > vehicles after that date had no problems. > Sorry if this has been done to death but its not a line I followed owning a > petrol, & a member of the family is now after a TD. > > Regards > DD Dennis, The bearing problem affected all years of 12V TD's. Or are you willing to listen to a salesman (2nd hand at that... :-). To me, it wouldn't even matter if they said it had been checked, unless I could verify that the work was done by a specialist 4WD shop, I'd get the sump pulled and checked again. CHEAP insurance. What $, as that's VERY low k's for a '93?. Might be worth checking the vehicle over and making sure the rest is only 70k km old too. Ian B '93 GXL HZJ80T @ 175k km Alice Springs, Australia www.geocities.com/hzj80 From: "Dennis Driver" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:39:30 +1030 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian B To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? > Dennis, > > The bearing problem affected all years of 12V TD's. Or are you willing to > listen to a salesman (2nd hand at that... :-). > > To me, it wouldn't even matter if they said it had been checked, unless I > could verify that the work was done by a specialist 4WD shop, I'd get the sump > pulled and checked again. CHEAP insurance. > > What $, as that's VERY low k's for a '93?. Might be worth checking the > vehicle over and making sure the rest is only 70k km old too. > > Ian B > '93 GXL HZJ80T @ 175k km > Alice Springs, Australia > www.geocities.com/hzj80 Thanks Ian as I thought, looks genuine mileage bought from that dealer new traded back in same place all service records, been a second car for towing a van only. $ 40k for this one normally 32 to 35 but usually have 150 to 200,000 on them at this age. ( so they say) Regards DD From: "Mick Barson" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Subject: Re: [80] [OZ] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:15:44 +0800 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Driver" To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2000 6:47 Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? > Hi all just checked the tech pages, says all from 91 to 94 12 valve > engines need checking. I ask because was looking around in a yard today > (Toyota Dealer) looked at a late 93 HD-T with 70k on it asked if the > bearings had been checked, was informed that they did not need it ! > anything after Jan. 93 was safe, Toyota had done a recall in Dec 92 and all > vehicles after that date had no problems. > Sorry if this has been done to death but its not a line I followed owning a > petrol, & a member of the family is now after a TD. > > Regards > DD G'day Dennis, I owned a 92' TD for 4 years, & I didn't receive any Re-call notice. I had the Crank & Bearings replaced through my own persistance, and it was a long way past Dec 92'. As has been mentioned previously the 1HDT motors are an excellent engine, & IMO for the small cost in having them checked [relative to the price of the vehicle] it's well worth it. Also 70,000k is bugger all for a 93' did it have service books & history to back that up. Cheers Mick [W.Aust] 1HD-FT Auto, ickbar@southwest.com.au http://www.southwest.com.au/~ickbar From: "Peter Richmond" To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? Date sent: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:15:51 +1100 Send reply to: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com >From: "Dennis Driver" >Reply-To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com >To: <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com> >Subject: Re: [80] HD-T Bearings Years affected ? >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:39:30 +1030 > > Thanks Ian as I thought, looks genuine mileage bought from that dealer >new traded back in same place all service records, been a second car for >towing a van only. $ 40k for this one normally 32 to 35 but usually have 150 >to 200,000 on them at this age. ( so they say) > Regards > DD Dennis, 12mths ago I paid $34,000 (private) for a 91 1HD-T with 78,000km it WAS imaculate. I got the bearings replaced for $300.00, as soon as I got it home, just as well as one had began to flake, mechanic reconed that they would have lasted another 2 years (but who really knows?). Cooma Diesel loved the truck and were very impressed with it, the way I look at it a truck with low mileage is great but get the bearings done (If only for peace of mind) and you have a winner. PeterR 91 1HD-T To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: bozza4president@yahoo.com Date sent: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:35:16 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Big end bearings snip... Most important question: are you aware of the big-end problem with 1HD-T engines, like yours is? ...snip Can I do a roll call on this, please? How many people have seen (or heard) of this big end problem OUTSIDE of Australia...the HD-T Turbo Diesel, 12 Valve...? Do not include Australian models sold overseas... To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: bozza4president@yahoo.com Date sent: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:03:59 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearings --- In 80scool@y..., "prhaupt" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: <80scool@y...> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 2:35 AM > Subject: [80] Big end bearings > > > > snip... > > > > Most important question: are you aware of the big-end problem with > > 1HD-T engines, like yours is? > > > > ...snip > > > > > > Can I do a roll call on this, please? > > > > How many people have seen (or heard) of this big end problem OUTSIDE > > of Australia...the HD-T Turbo Diesel, 12 Valve...? Do not include > > Australian models sold overseas... > > Bozza > > This problem is extremely rare in the UK - I had my vehicles's cyclinders > and big end bearings checked when I purchased my 80 series 1HD-T last year - > clean and smooth as a whistle; my colleagues in Europe say the problem is > extremely rare there too > > My tuppence worth. > Renate Alfaouua Renate, thank you. I expected more input. Maybe we will get more over time. The Turbo Diesel isn't available everywhere, so I expect many people don't have that sort of knowledge. The reason I asked is that when I asked a friend of mine (ex-Toyota mechanic...here in Japan) he told me the (im)famous big bearing problem is EXTREMELY rare in Japan. Next to none, infact. He said he hadn't seen one, but had seen a memo on it many, many years ago. When I said I was in contact with other users on this board he suggested I ask how many people with non-Australian 1HD-T Landcruisers have actually seen the problem. He surmized I would find very few. He also asked me to see if there were ANY Japanese imported vehicles (grey imports) into Australia that had demostrated the same problem. He, again, surmized that there would be none. He suggested the problem was not a design fault, but likely attributable to the quality of the component parts, their assembly, and their durability in the Australian climate. The way he said it has me a little peeved. The unintended slur on Australian manufacturing, and all.... So I decided to ask everyone here.... Thanks. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: bozza4president@yahoo.com Date sent: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:03:59 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearings (long, sorry...) Norm (and others), I am the member in Japan. I'm fortunate (or not so) to live between the main Isuzu test course in Japan, and the main Isuzu engine plant in Japan. Most of the Isuzu workers at these facilities live in my town, and over the years I've got to know one or two of them quite well. There were a few around here the other day (mostly test drivers, but engineer who oversees engine testing at the track). They sometimes share info with me on their views of rival vehicles (and they still haven't forgiven me for buying a Toyota...fools). Anyway, I said, `You know, my L/C appears to have problems in the bottom end...' They said, `Yeah, crankshaft...(!!)...know all about it.' I said, `No, big end bearings....'. They said, `No, crankshaft...'. So I pulled down the photos off the site and showed them...'. They said, `Mushi-kui....which translates something like INSECT-EATEN...describing the pattern of metal erosion...and ...that's probably oil contamination related...or bad oil...or metal that doesn't like certain oils at certain levels of degradation.' It was really hard to follow their conversation...getting all technical... The engineer admitted that he wasn't the best person to get an opinion from, but did say he'd introduce me to a friend that was...in return for a printed copy of tose bearing photos...!! Sort of put me on the spot...didn't know whether to say yes or no, the way it went so conspiritorial (if there is such a word)... What do you think...some photos to the enemy for some (maybe good, matbe useless) opinions?? Bozza (P.S. I said it was a big thing in certain parts, particularly Australia, where communication between users is large and where experiences get pooled. Plenty of people have had long trips away over Christmas interrupted by sudden seizure....and they guy said, `Oh, so this was during looong driving stints, then?' Don't know if that comment is significant or not. In Japan, you really can't be driving for days at a time, like in Australia (unless you drive in circles!! or are trying to drive during holidays, when you can spend half-a day lined up to get off at the Toll-Gated exits of Expressways...) Oh, and by the way (and sorry to be long-winded) my favorite 4x4 shop here (owned by a bit of a legend) has seen the problem three times, he said. The telltale tick, tick, tick on the head...but always (and will always) send them off to Toyota, he says. Warranty. And, 'tell 'em to chech that crank-shaft while you're at it...I said three times...2 L/C 's and a Hilux Surf (1HZ). His answer? Good oil changed every 5000-6000kms, and always change the element. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: bozza4president@yahoo.com Date sent: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:27:10 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearings > > Oh, and by the way (and sorry to be long-winded) my favorite 4x4 shop > here (owned by a bit of a legend) has seen the problem three times, > he said. The telltale tick, tick, tick on the head...but always (and > will always) send them off to Toyota, he says. Warranty. > And, 'tell 'em to chech that crank-shaft while you're at it...I said > three times...2 L/C 's and a Hilux Surf (1HZ). > I use the word SEEN loosely...he believes he has encountered the problem...not seen. He sent them off to Toyota. But I assume that he knows exactly what the ticking was... To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Priority: normal From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date sent: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:43:28 +0100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearings (long, sorry...) On 4 Jul 01 at 14:03, bozza4president@yahoo.com wrote: > Norm (and others), > > I am the member in Japan. I'm fortunate (or not so) to live between > the main Isuzu test course in Japan, and the main Isuzu engine plant > in Japan. Most of the Isuzu workers at these facilities live in my > town, and over the years I've got to know one or two of them quite > well. There were a few around here the other day (mostly test > drivers, but engineer who oversees engine testing at the track). They > sometimes share info with me on their views of rival vehicles (and > they still haven't forgiven me for buying a Toyota...fools). > > Anyway, I said, `You know, my L/C appears to have problems in the > bottom end...' They said, `Yeah, crankshaft...(!!)...know all about > it.' I said, `No, big end bearings....'. They said, `No, > crankshaft...'. So I pulled down the photos off the site and showed > them...'. They said, `Mushi-kui....which translates something like > INSECT-EATEN...describing the pattern of metal > erosion...and ...that's probably oil contamination related...or bad > oil...or metal that doesn't like certain oils at certain levels of > degradation.' Well, it's an tin/aluminium composite, instead of the much more common lead/copper composite (like on previous Cruisers)....ask them specifically about this, might be more clue than we think. I have also heard this pitting being explained with cavitation btw....remember that these bearings see a push-pul/up-down movement all the time....enough to create some kind of implosions.... > It was really hard to follow their conversation...getting all > technical... > > The engineer admitted that he wasn't the best person to get an > opinion from, but did say he'd introduce me to a friend that was...in > return for a printed copy of tose bearing photos...!! Sort of put me > on the spot...didn't know whether to say yes or no, the way it went > so conspiritorial (if there is such a word)... > > What do you think...some photos to the enemy for some (maybe good, > matbe useless) opinions?? Toyota is our enemy here, not Isuzu. If this route had existed 5 years ago, with lots more pressure, Toyota might not have weaseled out of this so easily....wasn't Mitsubishi severely punished recently by Japanese authorities for keeping problems secret? If Toyota doesn't want the royal way out, they should be forced out through the backdoor.... If truth and pressure must come from the competition, so be it....Toyota has had years for correcting this problem, but they didn't..... > Bozza > > (P.S. I said it was a big thing in certain parts, particularly > Australia, where communication between users is large and where > experiences get pooled. Plenty of people have had long trips away > over Christmas interrupted by sudden seizure....and they guy said, > `Oh, so this was during looong driving stints, then?' Don't know if > that comment is significant or not. It might for the German market.... > In Japan, you really can't be > driving for days at a time, like in Australia (unless you drive in > circles!! or are trying to drive during holidays, when you can spend > half-a day lined up to get off at the Toll-Gated exits of > Expressways...) > > Oh, and by the way (and sorry to be long-winded) my favorite 4x4 shop > here (owned by a bit of a legend) has seen the problem three times, > he said. The telltale tick, tick, tick on the head...but always (and > will always) send them off to Toyota, he says. Warranty. > And, 'tell 'em to chech that crank-shaft while you're at it...I said > three times...2 L/C 's and a Hilux Surf (1HZ). > > His answer? Good oil changed every 5000-6000kms, and always change > the element. The 80 from my shop owner, synthetic, anally serviced, had also crooked bearings at 200k km. Mine, regular oil, with 10k km intervals, were worse, but not by that much (Toyota itself specifies 10k intervals for the 1HD-T; 10k for diesel in general, 5k for turbo, but yet again 10k for turbo-direct-injectors....and if they do so, I expect those bearings to last well beyond 15k intervals (lots of modern diesels exceed this interval by a factor 2 btw!). And the range of service records I hear from my shop in case of crooked bearings, there is really hardly any relationship with quality of oil and intervals, nor type of use (stock vs intercooled & tuned....remember, he has put a lot of tuned 80's on the road before he discovered this problem, through me, so if anyone sees a wide range of service-records/use, it must be him). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Copies to: dtlc@helios.net Priority: normal From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:04:45 +0100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] 1HD-T Bearing fun Just for gigs, notice the text with the 8th entry at Google, compared to the first 7 entries.... http://www.google.com/search?q=1HD-T+bearings&hl=en&scoring=date&sa=N&tab=gw (nonono, not just to brag about my own entry, without this 8th entry it wouldn't be worth mentioning, I swear!....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: "Craig & Colene Vincent" To: Subject: 1HD-T bearings in relation to your website Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 13:36:38 +1300 Hello, I stumbled across your website yesterday as I was looking to print a copy of the 1HD-T bearing photo's from safari's website, I thought this would have been well resolved by now. I am going to give you some points to ponder as I am sick to death of this and similar fiasco's. First things first I will tell you what the pictures I have sent you are: Typical 80 series oil analysis: This is from a friends 80 series, he is running Amsoil 5w30 diesel oil with a 25,000km oil change interval, the truck gets a new GENUINE JAPANESE MADE Toyota oil filter every 10,000km (their is a reason for this but I won't discuss it at the moment). I am not trying to promote Amsoil but the reason he uses it is VERY important as it is one of 4 oils available in New Zealand (3 of these are Amsoil) that have a similar additive package to the oils sold in Japan by the various OEM companies. In excess of 24 readily available diesel oils have been tested and only 3 of these were found to have similar additive packages to what is supplied in Japan. I am being a little circumspect as I don't want to incite the wrath of major oil companies from what I write. Caltex pg1,2,3,4: This is a copy of a technical paper written by Caltex in Sydney Australia in March 1995. It is very easy to understand and explains things in relatively easy to understand format, contrary to what the title says it applies equally to light duty diesel engines, whether they are direct injection or indirect, based on current research. You may have to read it several times to follow it completely And there is a hidden meaning that relates directly to the 1HD-T in there that is VERY important. (I am prepared to discuss it further with you once I get to know you better) BACKGROUND TO WHY I AM SO UPSET I am a mechanical engineer (BE Mech) with an inane fascination with lubrication engineering (quite why I have never figured out). I was approached by a person (say A) late in 1998 he had spent several thousand dollars on his diesel egine in his car & within 12 months the engine had worn out (grossly excessive oil use amongst other things). The engine was stripped for a visual inspection and samples of engine oil were sent away for oil analysis, the results were interesting to say the least, based on the results NEW oil was sent away for analysis even more interesting. It was out of specification (ie should have not been sold) for 2 very important (But extremely easy to lab test for specifications) property's. 'A' went to court, I was meant to be called as an expert witness, late in the day I was told go home we will carry on tommorow. After I left for some reason they wound up the case without me, result was A was awarded $1500 damages, A appealed and the case was reheard. Second time around I was used and I went head to head with an oil company salesmen (why they didn't send a chemist I don't know) I literally tore his product to pieces with cold hard facts. Based on my testimony A was awarded $5500 dollars based dominantly on the fact that the OIL had caused the failure! Within a week I recieved a letter from the oil company's lawyer telling me (in nice flowery legal language) effectively if I don't cease & desist they will serve me with defamation papers & see me in court. I discussed the letter with a lawyer and then sent a reply to which they have never replied asking for confirmation of what I had said that was defamatory versus factual so I could correct myself. Even more intersting between the 1st & 2nd hearing the oil I criticised was taken off the market (still available in 60&205 liter drums but not 20 liter pails & 5 liter take home packs it was pulled New Zealand wide), the oil that replaced it was EVEN more interesting when lab tested (you read into that what you want). The above case got me thinking so 24+ oils were tested (all diesel oils), of these 6 were OEM oils privately imported from Japan (the local agents will NOT bring these in if you ask them to), the results were very enlightening. All the Japanese oils tested (Isuzu, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda) had a very similar chemical & physical makeup. ALL (bar 3) of the other oils tested had a completely different makeup (some an order of magnitude different), some properties would show some of the oils (no, I will not say which ones or how many here) that the oils were illegal for sale in numerous countries around the world (ignoring the fact that they may also be suitable or not suitable for certain families of engines). An interesting point one particular popular oil is API (American Petroleum Institute) licensed in about 14 different countries New Zealand is not one of them, this implies that the oil company can put whatever they want in this product in the non-licensed countries and "the standards enforcement division of API" can't touch them, under New zealand law there are no standards. Upon testing this product sold in NZ it show's that it isn't licensed for sale here. There is a very strong co-relation between bearing failure of the type seen in 1 HD-T's and lubricant (but it not as simple as synthetic versus mineral oil you need to know what is in the oil and some of it's physical properties and certain other test results) used. The oil used is much more important than the change interval you can change the oil evry 500-1000kms if you wanted but if it is not suitable for JAPANESE design engines FAILURE will occur (note premature wear is a engine failure, after manufacturing defects LUBRICANT is the NUMBER ONE cause of engine failure (sorry I can't reveal the source of this)). This failure is not limited to the Landcruiser engines I have seen it in the following: Isuzu 4jbl & 4jb1-t (2.8 diesel), Mazda SL, Toyota 2L-T I suspect it occurs in others. If you refer to the oil analysis I have included you can see that the Aluminium & tin levels are very realistic (the copper I will check again at the next oil analysis the oil was dumped at this point even though it was deemed suitable for continued use) I have enclosed an oil analysis interpretation as a JPEG to help explain the numbers. These engines run so incredibly clean you can afford to run long drains with routine oil analysis and regular oil filter changes (that is why the top up oil looks high as it includes makeup oil at oil filter changes). In the last year or so Ford NZ has begun using Ford Europe oil in it's diesel Transit Van's sold in NZ, Mazda is using oil imported from Japan in it's diesel vehicles sold here why? I think you can guess. Another Japansese car company 'off the record' stated lubricant related failures are costing them hundred's of thousands of dollars but the pain is not great enough to risk taking on the oil companies over the problem. Isn't it great being a consumer with this going on in the background that the public don't know about. I hope this is helpful and you can learn something from it and then get back to me. The commerce commisssion in NZ has been approached but it is too hard for them. The ACCC in Australia (their version of the commerce commission) were very interested in the data but not in pursuing it further. It has been discussed with another Mechanical Engineer and they said to be very careful with the data as even though it is correct if publicly released legal action would be started immediately to cover up the problem. It was also mentioned that only four people in NZ would be fully capable of understanding the data and it's ramification's and two of those work for oil companies so it is not in there interest to do anything. Yours, Craig.
NOTE wJ: SEE ALSO 80bigend_oil-analysis-scam.htm
To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "martin lee" Date sent: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:41:05 +0100 Subject: [80] HDJ80 Big End Swap VERY LONG Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi In response to Julian's message this is how I swapped the Big End shells on my standard 1993 HDJ80 Auto with 124K miles (Its now done 130K).Much advice was kindly given by Norm. I said earlier that I would reply this week although as I had nothing better to do I wrote it up on Sunday afternoon. This write up is long so hit the delete button now to avoid unnecessary boredom!. Here goes....... Make sure the workshop floor/area and all tools are free of dust and dirt.Once you are into the exposed crank / conrod area make sure your hands/tools are completely free of dirt and grime at all times.This is VITAL to avoid contamination of new shells. Needed, in addition to usual socket set / tools etc. Toyota w/shop manual (advisable) Quality / accurate low range torque wrench to say 40 ft lbs Special Toyota 12mm star shaped socket for conrod bolts SST 09011-38121 Strip of Plastigage (Green) Non residue solvent cleaner. Assembly lube I used cam lube/moly mixed with engine oil. Disconnect batteries drain oil pan.. Apply hand brake and chock back wheels. Jack up 80 at front supporting on stout axle stands under front cross member at towing eye mountings either side. Make sure wheels are free / suspension is at full droop. There is no need to unbolt any suspension items. Make certain that you have a well lit working area below the vehicle. I covered all exposed cross suspension bars diff tubes and under area with plastic wrap to avoid dirt/dust contamination just leaving oil pan area exposed. Remove the front plate that protects the radiator area (4 bolts) so that a wrench can be applied to the crank nut to enable turning of crank from below. Remove the two lower brackets that connect transmission to engine 8 bolts X 17 mm. Disconnect low oil level sender from side of oil pan and secure connector out of way. Replace oil pan bung to avoid drips . Remove the 30 or so 10 mm oil pan bolts/nuts. Preferably weld/make up a right angled cutter (drawing in w/shop manual SST 09032-00100) that allows this to be tapped between the oil pan cover and engine mating surface then tapped along with hammer until a suitable lever/chisel can be inserted to break the FIPG seal of the oil pan. Lower and remove oil pan from rear. In my view removal of the oil pan is the biggest maul of the whole job !! Remove the oil strainer 2 nuts and two bolts 10 mm and catch metal strainer gasket. Watch out for a face load of oil :( Clean your face of oil and then clean engine and oil pan mating surfaces of all FIPG and old oil and clean out oil strainer. Then have a look at crank and conrod markings which in accordance with manual the sum of the two numbers stamped should also match the small numbers stamped on the con rod shells.Full details / sizes in w/shop manual. Mine was stamped 2 at all conrods and 2 at the crank. This confirmed that existing shells should be size 4 and indeed this number was stamped on all shells. To remove shells place any one of the 6 conrods (by turning crank by its pully bolt clockwise) to as near bottom dead centre as possible. First note how the conrod cap fits with the front dimple/protrusion facing forward Using a longish handled 3/8 drive wrench and the SST socket progressively and with equal passes undo each of the two conrod cap bolts a bit in turn until they are out. Reinsert cap bolts and using their leverage gently wiggle the cap until it breaks free from the conrod. Lower the cap and take a look at the shell / similarly push up the con rod gently into the cylinder bore until its shell can be slid out of the conrod. Check for scoring, pitting, flaking or other signs of wear/cavitation. Check out the small number on the shells to confirm their size as above. Also check out the crank journal for scoring / wear bands.If the shells don't look too bad the crank should be OK too. All of my journals and shells were OK except for one. Top 3 shell had a cavity in the alum lining measuring c 8 mm by 3 mm and ran from centre of apex to edge. The particle must of been chewed up long ago! If you email me I will send you a pic of this nasty. So much for Toyota GBs guarantee in writing that the duff shells did not apply to European diesel 80's ! To check the stamped sizes of the shells of the other 5 conrods (by turning the crank further) you must first temporarily reinsert the shells of the first one removed after reoiling the shell/journal surfaces and the bolts. Torque down progressively to 27 ft lbs. If you are going to replace the shells anyway (advisable) no need (at this stage) to torque down the further 90 degree turn to stretch the cap bolts (see below).Make sure you keep the shells in exactly the same locations i.e. cap or conrod and that cap faces the correct way to line up the location studs in the cap/ conrod matting joints.Each shell has a locating tab ensure this is located correctly in cap/conrod and that each shell is properly located. You can also check each of the 12 cap bolts for stretch but for this refer to the w/shop manual for tolerances. Usually the bolts can be reused (if not overstretched) although since I had no intention of doing the job again I ordered 12 new bolts, a set of 12 shells size 4, some Toyota FIPG sealant and a new oil pick up gasket. Total �135 To locate the new shells turn each conrod to BDC as before and remove and clean journal conrods/cap with the non residue quick drying solvent. Then without oiling place a strip of the Plastigage onto the new shell (across the apex) sitting in the clean conrod cap. Torque down as before to 27 ft lbs and do not allow the crank to move the slightest bit and then remove and check the amount that the Plastigage has been compressed against the given scale on the Plastigage pack.Standard clearance is .0014 - .0021 thou. Mine all read just under .002 so were OK The maximum permissible clearance is .0039. To be anal you could also check for bearing crush which is felt either by very slight resistance when torquing up the new shells or by slightly nipping down one side of the cap only and inserting a feeler gage and measuring the clearance on the join gap at the other side which should be approx. 2 thou.On a new shell "crush" ensures that the bearings are slightly compressed upon installation to stop any chance of spinning in the conrod/caps. Some people go one standard set of bearings tighter which would give up to a max of .0004 i.e. just under half thou overall tighter fit to allow for slight journal wear. I did not do this since in my view any journal wear would be by way of ovality and may make the fit too tight at some points.This would be safer if the journal could be accurately miced up and checked at a number of points to assess overall clearance / ovality of journal. Incidentally before installing the new shells I also checked the old shell clearances out of interest and they too gave circa 2 thou. Not bad after 124K miles! Incidentally the conrod thrust clearance was also well within tolerance when measured with a clock gage. Again I also checked this out of curiosity. After checking clearance clean off the Plastigage residue (WD40 spay dissolves it fast) smear some assembly lube on the journal and shell surfaces only (not their backs) and reinstall. Oil the new bolts and progressively with several passes torque up to 27 ft lbs then a further 90 degree turn where a dab of paint can be used to see the angle of movement of the bolt. This final part turn requires a fair bit more leverage and maybe a longer extension bar will be needed. It is worth noting that if you are working alone on the garage floor each time you go underneath to install a set of shells there is a danger of contaminating them.. So keep your hands free of any part of the vehicle and transport shells / cap in a clean container. When left over night I covered the bottom of the engine temporarily / loosely refitted the clean oil pan. The new parts took 3 days to arrive. After all shells are fitted and you have checked that the crank turns smoothly after each of the 6 installations and again at the end install the oil strainer and gasket and torque fasteners down to 78 INCH lbs and reinstall the oil pan. Use FIPG on the pan as detailed in the manual and install while lying on your back using knees to steady it without smearing the FIPG. To be honest I practiced this maneuver before the final run to ensure that I got a good oil tight seal without loads of stray FIPG going everywhere. Once you have the pan on start off a few of the bolts and then toque em all down to 7 ft lb. Reconnect the engine/tranny stays and the battery. Make sure you have removed the spanner off the crank and replace the lower protective plate. Lower the vehicle. Fill up the engine with oil and change the filter. Hold yer breath and start her up. I replaced my oil/filter after the first 1000 miles but suspect that this was unnecessary. I noticed a very slight improvement (half needle width) in oil pressure across the whole range. The needle has always remained in the same relative locations hot/cold engine low/high revs so the increase was noticeable. For better measurement a mechanical gage is best. The job took me 8 hours in all and I reckon life would have been so much easier with the benefit of a four post lift.I guess I could do the job in a few hours less if I had to do it again. Owing to Toyotas assertions that European engines were OK I procrastinated for 2 years before doing the job and argued with people who knew better on this list that my car was going to be OK. I was wrong matters could have worsened at any time if the damage to that bearing shell or others had increased. I was just lucky. I sent a photo of my shells to Toyota with a copy of their original letter and all I got was a polite "Sod off mate...well what do you expect for a 9 year old vehicle with over 100K miles?" Regards Martin From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:01:48 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net OK diesel experts, got a question for you. On the 1HD-T motors, they have a bit of a tendency to eat big-end rod bearings, yes? So, the fix is to replace the bearings BEFORE they deteriorate, correct? I was told they are VERY closely fitted at the factory, they are fitted to each journal, and are extremely close tolerance, and there are numbers stamped into the block that indicate the sizes installed. Is this correct? If so, how do you order new bearings? Do the aftermarket replacements (or do you use Toyota replacements?) come in regular under-sizes (like .25, .50 and .75mm) or do you need to order each journal specifically? Is geoff walsh a good source for parts for these engines? thanks Dana Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:36:50 GMT To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question From: Julian Voelcker Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:01:48 +0000, Dana Adams wrote: > OK diesel experts, got a question for you. > > On the 1HD-T motors, they have a bit of a tendency to eat big-end rod > bearings, yes? > > So, the fix is to replace the bearings BEFORE they deteriorate, correct? > > I was told they are VERY closely fitted at the factory, they are fitted to > each journal, and are extremely close tolerance, and there are numbers > stamped into the block that indicate the sizes installed. Is this correct? > > If so, how do you order new bearings? Do the aftermarket replacements (or > do you use Toyota replacements?) come in regular under-sizes (like .25, .50 > and .75mm) or do you need to order each journal specifically? > > Is geoff walsh a good source for parts for these engines? > Hi Dana, So have you managed to pick up a diesel engine? I have done a reasonably amount of investigations on these. I would go for Toyota originals. You need to strip it down first before you order them to make sure that you get the right sizes. I have the Haynes manual here somewhere, as far as I can remember, there are codes on the crank and journals that tell you the sizes required - decode the sizes and then order from Toyota - make sure you remember the order that they are in. Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 05:30:57 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Adams" > > So, the fix is to replace the bearings BEFORE they deteriorate, correct? > > I was told they are VERY closely fitted at the factory, they are fitted to > each journal, and are extremely close tolerance, and there are numbers > stamped into the block that indicate the sizes installed. Is thiscorrect? > > If so, how do you order new bearings? Do the aftermarket replacements (or > do you use Toyota replacements?) come in regular under-sizes (like .25,.50 > and .75mm) or do you need to order each journal specifically? the bearing sizes are stamped on each bearing (similar to the 3FE) each is different from the factory. do not loose the bearings it is a pain to get the right ones again from the factory using the block no's. i even had a couple dealers tell me ' without the old bearings we just can't help you'. the 3FE that i redid had the bearings pitched before i got my hands on it, what a pain. the aftermarket bearings are fine. but personaly i would use the factory, if cost isn't an issue... Wayne From: "HZJ80" To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:58:05 +0930 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net From: Dana Adams : OK diesel experts, got a question for you. : : On the 1HD-T motors, they have a bit of a tendency to eat big-end rod : bearings, yes? : : So, the fix is to replace the bearings BEFORE they deteriorate, correct? : : I was told they are VERY closely fitted at the factory, they are fitted to : each journal, and are extremely close tolerance, and there are numbers : stamped into the block that indicate the sizes installed. Is this correct? : : If so, how do you order new bearings? Do the aftermarket replacements (or : do you use Toyota replacements?) come in regular under-sizes (like .25, .50 : and .75mm) or do you need to order each journal specifically? : : Is geoff walsh a good source for parts for these engines? : : thanks : : Dana G'day Dana, Care to expand on how you now possess a mighty 1HD-T?. ;-) If the motor is unknown to you, replace the bigend bearings straight away. Period. They might have been done aleady, but you don't know. The bearings are not overly expensive and save lots of worry. Toyota provides a number of selective fit bearing sizes. Tolerances are fairly tight. The Toyota 1PZ/1HZ/1HD-T engine manual details lots of good info. I highly recommend it. Get it if you can. If the motor has done a few miles, it is probably best to plastigauge the clearances to confirm what size bearing to use and not rely on the factory markings to still be correct. Undersize bearings are available, but only if a regrind has been performed. With regular oil changes these bearings do not wear very much. Bearings from Toyota 'should' now be updated versions that don't suffer the erosion issues. In Oz, we commonly use ACL bearings. Any quality brand lead/copper(?) bearing should be adequate though. Geoff Walsh may well keep parts needed, as would Toyota dealers in Oz, and other parts shops. hth, Ian B From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:27:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 22 Nov 2002 at 5:30, wayne@crushersrule.com wrote: > the bearing sizes are stamped on each bearing (similar to the 3FE) > each is different from the factory. do not loose the bearings it is a > pain to get the right ones again from the factory using the block > no's. Does this imply that you *can* get the data of which sizes were originally used from the factory? Seems overly detailed.... > i even had a couple dealers tell me ' without the old bearings > we just can't help you'. the 3FE that i redid had the bearings pitched > before i got my hands on it, what a pain. the aftermarket bearings are > fine. but personaly i would use the factory, if cost isn't an issue... Plasti-gauge is not an option, or is this the 'pain'? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:42:50 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question > On 22 Nov 2002 at 5:30, wayne@crushersrule.com wrote: > > > the bearing sizes are stamped on each bearing (similar to the 3FE) > > each is different from the factory. do not loose the bearings it is a > > pain to get the right ones again from the factory using the block > > no's. > > Does this imply that you *can* get the data of which sizes were > originally used from the factory? Seems overly detailed.... > > > i even had a couple dealers tell me ' without the old bearings > > we just can't help you'. the 3FE that i redid had the bearings pitched > > before i got my hands on it, what a pain. the aftermarket bearings are > > fine. but personaly i would use the factory, if cost isn't an issue... > > Plasti-gauge is not an option, or is this the 'pain'? yes, there are stampings on each journal and on each connecting rod and you need to be a fortune teller to figure them out... luckily, i had a genuine gentleman take the time to help me figure the mess out, without him i would be going aftermarket bearings... Wayne wayne@crushersrule.com www.crushersrule.com have you laughed ;-)) at a jeep lately ?? From: Greg Goulden - Western Farm Service P/L To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:02:44 +1100 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net |-----Original Message----- |From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of |wayne@crushersrule.com | |yes, there are stampings on each journal and on each connecting rod and you |need to be a fortune teller to figure them out... luckily, i had a genuine |gentleman take the time to help me figure the mess out, without him i would |be going aftermarket bearings... |Wayne |wayne@crushersrule.com It's not really hard at all! The con-rod is marked either 1, 2 or 3, and the crankshaft is marked on the rear most counter weight with 6 digits, being journals 1 -> 6, also between 1 and 3. If the con-rod for No. 1 cylinder is marked "2" and the cranks shaft says "1", then 2 + 1 = 3, and this is the number of the bearing required. The part number then uses this suffix, eg. the part number for that journal would be 13041-17011-03. Hope this helps. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. From: Greg Goulden - Western Farm Service P/L To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:22:56 +1100 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Dana, my comments inserted. |-----Original Message----- |From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of |Dana Adams | |On the 1HD-T motors, they have a bit of a tendency to eat big-end rod |bearings, yes? Yes, a bad reputation which was basically put down to an inadequate metalurgy make up of the bearings. The same bigend bearings were also used in the 1HZ, (most likely the 1PZ) later in the 1HD-FT but as the direct injected 1HD-T had the sharper power stroke, the problem showed up there first. Have a read of:- http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html . |So, the fix is to replace the bearings BEFORE they deteriorate, correct? Most definately, otherwise you could suffer severe fuel problems (that's when the rod comes loose, goes through the block and knocks the injection pump off the timing case!). It's a simple job to replace them, if they let go it will cost thousands... When I did my old HDJ80, Toyota came to the party and paid the parts, but it was never a public recall, just handled on a case by case basis. Many people actually paid for replacement engines after warranty expired but before the problem really came to light. |I was told they are VERY closely fitted at the factory, they are fitted to |each journal, and are extremely close tolerance, and there are numbers |stamped into the block that indicate the sizes installed. Is this correct? Yes, as others have stated there are 6 different factory bearing sizes, depending on con-rod and crank markings. See my other e-mail. A factory manual is VERY helpful with this information. Let me know if you need the manual number. |If so, how do you order new bearings? Do the aftermarket replacements (or |do you use Toyota replacements?) come in regular under-sizes (like |.25, .50 |and .75mm) or do you need to order each journal specifically? I use genuine, as aftermarket don't have the various "standard" sized bearings. Ordering is easy, either pull the sump off and remove the bearings noting the code on the shell, or just read the number on the con-rod and also the marking on the crank counterweight. That said, I recently rebuilt a 1HD-FT (never opened up before), and on one cylinder the bearing was one size over what the 2 markings were indicating, ie. markings added to 3, but shell removed was 4. I refitted the 4. These coded bearings are available singularly, however undersize "sets" are available in 0.25 and 0.50mm oversize in genuine. What vehicle are you intending on fitting this to? Injection pump condition and calibration, and also the 2 stage injector condition are quite important on these motors. Regards, Greg Goulden. 2000 HDJ105 Melb. From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net, g.goulden@westernfarm.com.au Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:05:43 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Greg, Ian, and others, thanks for your very helpful comments. BTW, the truck came with a Toyota Factory 1PZ, 1HZ, 1HD-T Engine repair manual. Thanks for your offer to supply one for me. The vehicle is a USA-spec 1991 FJ80 that has been very professionally converted over to an HDJ80 with a 1-HDT motor. The injection pump was rebuilt by Berrima about 35,000 miles ago, and the injectors were replaced with new at the same time. Our best guess is the motor has somewhere in the neighborhood of 250,000 to 300,000 miles on it. It has been run with synthetic oil for most of those miles, and a Toilet-paper filter has also been run since the engine was installed into this truck. The miles are almost all highway miles, the truck has hardly been off-roaded, and then only on easy fireroads. Are the rod bolts recommended to be replaced as well, or is it OK to re-use the old ones? Since the big-end rod bearings are defective, what about the main bearings? Seems they should also be replaced while in there? I guess you'd only be able to replace the middle 5, as the end ones would be impossible to remove without removing and completely dismantling the engine. Ramifications of only replacing the center 5 main bearings and leaving the two end ones alone? I read the "1HDT Big End Bearings" page, and there is mention of an aftermarket brand called ACL. Geoff Walsh supplies these also. The text seems to prefer their quality over the OEM Toyota replacements. I'm a little confused about the "custom" nature of these bearing shells. I understand that each bearing has a number stamped on it, and if the crank journal is in good shape, you should simply order the same number bearing from toyota. This number is also the sum of the two numbers (or should be) that are stamped on the bearing caps and the crank, correct? How does this correlate with the aftermarket bearings? Are they also ordered this way, or do you simply specify the engine model (1HDT) and order standard-sized bearings, and all 12 half-shells come in the same exact size? This seems to minimize the closer-than-normal tolerances of this motor, as evidenced by the numbering scheme above, and seems to me that some of the con rods would be tighter than others if you used the aftermarket ones. I think my motor is exhibiting some of the symptoms described in the page, so I'm not driving it until I replace them. thanks again for your help and assistance. This truck is awesome, even if it has bad bearings!! Dana From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:48:03 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Well, now that I've had a chance to actually read the engine repair manual, I see that the main bearing cap is all one piece. So I guess I'm not going to be rolling in any new main bearings then. Sorry, never been inside a diesel engine before!! Dana From: Greg Goulden - Western Farm Service P/L To: "DTLC list" Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:34:58 +1100 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net |-----Original Message----- |From: Dana Adams [mailto:fj40dana@hotmail.com] | |Are the rod bolts recommended to be replaced as well, or is it OK |to re-use the old ones? AFAIK, re-use of the old ones is OK, only replace if they don't meet the torque specification (which is very unlikely as they are "torque to yield"). |Since the big-end rod bearings are defective, what about the main |bearings? Main bearings seem to be OK, I've only heard of 1 person changing them as he was chasing an annoying ticking sound and had already replaced the big ends. This solved his problem. |Seems they should also be replaced while in there? I guess you'd only be |able to replace the middle 5, as the end ones would be impossible |to remove |without removing and completely dismantling the engine. Ramifications of |only replacing the center 5 main bearings and leaving the two end ones |alone? As you have already found, the 1H* family of engines use the ladder style one piece main bearing cap assembly. Engine out of car job, total disassembly required. |I read the "1HDT Big End Bearings" page, and there is mention of an |aftermarket brand called ACL. Geoff Walsh supplies these also. The text |seems to prefer their quality over the OEM Toyota replacements. ACL = Automotive Components Limited (http://www.acl.com.au). A reputable Australian Company of both OE and aftermarket parts. They apparently make a copper and lead bearing for the 1H*, rather than the aluminium/lead Toyota bearing. Initially this was thought to be the problem with the Toyota design, but I don't think its an issue any more. |I'm a little confused about the "custom" nature of these bearing |shells. I |understand that each bearing has a number stamped on it, and if the crank |journal is in good shape, you should simply order the same number bearing |from toyota. This number is also the sum of the two numbers (or |should be) that are stamped on the bearing caps and the crank, correct? Don't be confused, you seem to have it! But if the engine has done high miles (which it sounds like it has) a proper oil clearance measurement should be made using Plastigage or similar. |How does this correlate with the aftermarket bearings? Are they also |ordered this way, or do you simply specify the engine model (1HDT) |and order |standard-sized bearings, and all 12 half-shells come in the same |exact size? |This seems to minimize the closer-than-normal tolerances of this motor, as |evidenced by the numbering scheme above, and seems to me that some of the |con rods would be tighter than others if you used the aftermarket ones. Aftermarket are only available as std or oversize. They don't cater for the minute increments like the OE ones do. Based on the tiny differences in factory machining, yes the clearances would vary. In an older motor it probably wouldn't be critical at all. |I think my motor is exhibiting some of the symptoms described in the page, |so I'm not driving it until I replace them. Very wise! Take oil pressure readings using a master gauge too. How about some pictures of the truck, and some history about the conversion? Regards, Greg Goulden. 2000 HDJ105 - could be the only one? Melb. From: "HZJ80" To: References: Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T Bearing question Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:27:01 +0930 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Dana, I'm thrilled for your new purchase!. Never heard of rod bolts being replaced other than because the old ones were defective. Never heard of the bolts becoming defective... The mains bearings do not need replacing unless dismantling the motor. This should not be required as a matter of course. Having said that....one of the mains out of my 1HZ showed erosion pitting when replaced last month (220k km). Toyota supplied bearings should be ok these days. Also, warning....amongst the 1HZ/1HD community we are finding increasing reports of the motor generating a ticking type noise at 2200-2400rpm. Basically this is an anomalise noise and while annoying, is not destructive. However, a 1HD that has defective bearings may make this same noise (in this case piston clipping the head) just prior to self destruction. Isn't life fun?. Ian B From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: [DTLC] SST needed for big-end bearing replacement? Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:37:19 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Hi again folks. I was reading some more info on this job, and one guy (Martin Lee) mentioned a SST socket to un-do the con rod bolts. I thought any regular 12-point socket of the correct size would work. Is this wrong, do I need a special socket? Also, (as mentioned in a previous post) I intend to order the ACL bearings. I noticed some other folks order the Toyota bearings in one size smaller than what they remove, the thinking being that the journal has worn a bit. Martin made this observation, deciding instead to order same-sized bearings, rationalizing that any wear to the journal would be oval. Seems reasonable. Comments? thanks again Dana From: "Ross Plunkett" To: Subject: 1HDT Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:33:36 +1000 Three years ago i bought a 91 Model 80 Series Turbo Diesel (1HDT). It = had 220k and i was unaware of big end problems untill it died. It lasted = exactly 12months (12k Kms) before the crank siezed. When the motor was = pulled down it had lots of significant wear in all areas. The rebuild = could have been done for about 6k but with no warranty so i opted for a = total rebuild, Rebuilt crank, new rings, bearings, valves, guides, = seats, water pump, oil pump, clutch, injectors, rebuilt turbo (hi = flowed), rebuilt and modified injector pump etc etc. The total cost 13k = (aghhhhhhhhh), it now goes much better than a petrol cruiser and uses = 11L / 100k on a trip and 14l / 100k around town.=20 I am unsure as to the service history before i bought it but i know it = was a country car and appears to have been poorly serviced and had lots = of poor quality fuel through it. The rebuild was done by West End Diesel service in Sydney. They told me = to only use Shell Rimula X oil, and only use Genuine Toyota Filters and = parts and change the filter and oil every 5k and will last at least = 500k.=20 At times it has become smokey but this has been cured with injector = cleaner, i can only put this down to crap fuel clogging the injectors. The guys who built the new motor have serviced a number of early 80 = series 1HDT's from new and had no big end failures at all. They swear by = their servicing methods, Shell Rimula X, Toyota Filters and change Oil = and Filter every 5K. I am yet to be convinced, but the cruiser is great, pulls like a train = and will be mine for many years to come. So i will see how long ot = lasts. Before long i am going to fit a high mount intercooler and 3" exhaust, = it should pull better than a V8 cruiser and use less than half the fuel. Rossscoe From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: "Ross Plunkett" Subject: Re: 1HDT Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:02:37 +0200 On 22 May 2003 at 0:33, Ross Plunkett wrote: > Three years ago i bought a 91 Model 80 Series Turbo Diesel (1HDT). It > had 220k and i was unaware of big end problems untill it died. It > lasted exactly 12months (12k Kms) before the crank siezed. When the > motor was pulled down it had lots of significant wear in all areas. > The rebuild could have been done for about 6k but with no warranty so > i opted for a total rebuild, Rebuilt crank, new rings, bearings, > valves, guides, seats, water pump, oil pump, clutch, injectors, > rebuilt turbo (hi flowed), rebuilt and modified injector pump etc etc. > The total cost 13k (aghhhhhhhhh), it now goes much better than a > petrol cruiser and uses 11L / 100k on a trip and 14l / 100k around > town. I am unsure as to the service history before i bought it but i > know it was a country car and appears to have been poorly serviced and > had lots of poor quality fuel through it. The rebuild was done by West > End Diesel service in Sydney. They told me to only use Shell Rimula X > oil, and only use Genuine Toyota Filters and parts and change the > filter and oil every 5k and will last at least 500k. At times it has > become smokey but this has been cured with injector cleaner, i can > only put this down to crap fuel clogging the injectors. The guys who > built the new motor have serviced a number of early 80 series 1HDT's > from new and had no big end failures at all. They swear by their > servicing methods, Shell Rimula X, Toyota Filters and change Oil and > Filter every 5K. I am yet to be convinced, but the cruiser is great, > pulls like a train and will be mine for many years to come. So i will > see how long ot lasts. Before long i am going to fit a high mount > intercooler and 3" exhaust, it should pull better than a V8 cruiser > and use less than half the fuel. > > Rossscoe > Hi Ross, Sad story, especially since the earlier samples (preventative or catastrophic) managed to pull Toyota over the counter, and have them pay at least half of the cost....but with ever increasing mileage & years, this scenario has almost vanished sadly, as Toyota started to bail out, with the argument 'ordinary wear'. Still a scam that there never was any recall, a legally vulnerable point....I wouldn't like to be in Toyota's shoes if a nasty lawyer picks this up....the abundance of samples, preventative and catastrophic, is chilling. High-grade oil is not a solution either; the owner of my shop has an 80 too, treated with anal maintenance (do you know the method to flush the engine with ATF, and drive it on that for a few miles, then flush again and replace with normal oil?)....his 80 was on the hoist the day after he saw mine (his first ever, after I grabbed this info from the list, in the early days of this discussion)....his bearings (same 200k km mileage IIRC) were not as bad as mine (regular maintenance, but 10k intervals according to Dutch servicebook (still have a bottle to be analysed one day) but definitely worthy of replacement. So I tend to the conclusion that such damage can not be prevented with maintenance, however anal. PS: are you aware of the 80-series Mailinglist? If not, see link further down on my homepage: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/main_4x4.htm To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Craig Vincent Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:21:01 +1200 Subject: Re: [80] Improved Big end Bearings (Chat) Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi Roman, Roman wrote: Snip > >It's not the oil but the material of which the bearings were made. >This seems to be the first claim I've heard that one specific brand >of oil can prevent the BEB problem. > >Rgds, >Roman (UK) > >I was not inferring a specific brand of oil but a specific class of >lubricants of which Amsoil diesel oil is one of them along with Caltex >CXJ and all the Japanese OEM oils (be warned that most of the Japanese >OEM oils are illegal to sell in Europe due to excessive volatility). >How do you know it is not the oil Roman? Aluminium/tin bearings are used in all sorts of Japanese diesel engines, I have seen similarly failed bearings in all sorts of Japanese engines but only NewZealand new engines or engines that have spent along time in New Zealand. I have never seen a freshly imported engine from Japan with a similar mode of bearing failure. This problem also relates to bore wear as well, quoting from a Caltex technical paper we have: "The use of an inappropriate diesel engine oil, such as a North American style oil in a European or Japanese engine, will result in bore polishing, increased oil consumption and reduced engine life. The use of a European or Japanese style oil in a North American engine could void the manufacturer's warranty, as well as leading to increased oil consumption and reduced engine life. While European and Japanese diesel engine oils have some similarities. Japanese style oils tend to have sulfated-ash levels above the maximum level accepted by European manufacturers, and European style oils do not address the specific oxidation resistance and dispersancy requirements of Japanese engines. Thus differences in engine design, and also operational expectations, place differing demands upon the engine oil. The lubrication requirements of diesel engines from North America, Europe and Japan are different, and are best met vith diesel engine oils specifically formulated for each individual engine style." I added the bold italic emphasis, the above was taken from "The Effect of Engine Design on Heavy-Duty Diesel Engine Oil Formulation" published by Caltex International Technical Center PTY Limited, Sydney Australia March 1995. Lets take a step back first and go for some background information. If we assume any of the Japanese manufacturers are selling their diesel engined vehicles somewhere in the world. They may or may not (sorry but I have to keep this very genearalised to avoid breaching confidentialitys or trusts) ask the local oil company's what oils do you have suitable for our engine. As an example I know of one manufacturer who stated we want X, Y, & Z etcetera in oils supplied to us for use in our diesel engines with the most important point being Calcium levels must be 3000ppm or greater. To this multiple oil company's replied we have a product that meets your minmum requirements say 6 of them, upon independent lab testing it was found that only one oil met the minimum requirements set by the manufacturer, upon informing the manufacturer of this fact they stated they were not prepared to confront the oil companies involved even though lubricant related failures were costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars per annum. Further along a study was done of oils in one particular market, a range of name brand oils were lab tested that stated on their container that they were suitable for use in Japanese diesel engines, towards 30 oils were tested the results were not pretty. The head of the Standards Enforcement Division of the API was contacted he was provided with a full compliment of the test results and also the test results of what the Japanese OEM's are using in Japan. He was horrified but his hands were tied as the lubricants did not have the API donut symbol on them so the API had no juristiction to prosecute. An interesting thing was one of the oils tested was readily available in the USA and was API licensed in multiple country's around the world but not the country that supplied the oils for testing upon comparing the two oils that were supposedly identical it was found that one met its API held signature but the other was not even remotely similar it was complete and utter rubbish. The NZ Commerce Commision, the ACCC (Australia's version of a commerce commission), 60 minutes, 20/20, Automobile Association's, some manufacturers and some University engineering departments were contacted to discuss the problem and what to do about it. The general consensus from most of the organisations contacted was this is way too big for us and we are not prepared to confront multinational oil companies. The other common feedback was be very careful you are treading on very powerful toes. Further along lab samples started disappearing on route to be lab tested, not completely though somewhere in transit they were being opened and the empty box being sent on to the lab, and then the lab would contact the sender to say why did you send us an empty box. The people involved in the study and there families started to get messages leave the oil alone, stop this research. The people involved in the study were then informed to cease and desist or they would be killed at this point research was abandoned. It appeared that the research was upsetting someone alot. This may sound like science fiction but it happened. You have to remember if (outside of Japan) 95+% of Japanese diesel engines are operated on inappropiate unsuitable lubricants dealer franchises, mechanics, engine reconditioners, & customers will all come to expect that engines last as long as they see them lasting. If in reality this life is abnormally short know one will ever know. The use of inappropiate oil does not cause catastrophic engine failures (unless you count bearing failures) it causes accelerated engine wear or failure. This is the secret to getting away with this type of fraud. You may ask why would an oil company supply the wrong oil: They may not have a suitable product but are not prepared to say to a customer sorry go and see the other oil company down the road we don't have a suitable product. They know that it is extremely unlikely someone will catch them out as the engine is unlikely to fail until outside the warranty period. Even if it does how many people are qualified to prove it. The cost of the additive package of Japanese oil is much more exspensive than a American style oil or a European style oil so there is a better profit margin in not supplying the correct oil. Very high levels of Calcium have a strong passification affect on bearings. Enough rambling. I am not particularly comfortable discussing the above but it needed to be said to help people understand the importance of running engine oil that is correctly formulated for your engine style. Regards, Craig. BE Mech To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Joaquim Pinto da Costa" Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:54:37 +0100 Subject: [80] Portuguese replacement of Big Ends Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi List I've my bearings checked this Saturday on my German 94 VX (185 K Km). Guess what! Number 6 was heavily pitched, number 3 was also bad, and number 5 also presented some scratches, the rest were OK. My mechanic said that it was a mater of time until big problems. I must say that I was afraid of trusting this operation to someone who never did it before. So armed with the Engine Repair Manual and prints from the List messages or Web pages I demand to watch the process. If there are still people on this list (especially Europeans) thinking that the Big End Bearings it's a OZ problem. Think again . Because I assure you that the operation is actually quite simple any average mechanic could perform the operation without problems. If anyone interested to see the pictures of the bearings just drop me a line. My mechanic says that apparently the camshaft is OK. He says apparently because to check it right he says that he would have to disassemble the engine. I would leave that for later (By now the bill is big enough to calm me down :-(). From a fast look of the Eng. Repair Manual I couldn't tell if this is true or not. Do you have to disassemble the engine to properly check the camshaft? Does anyone knows of an adequate oil (with Ca above 3000 ppm) commercially available in EEC? Thanks Joaquim From: Eric Williamson To: Subject: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:01:10 -0700 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Does anyone know about the HDJ81 engine? Is that the one with the bearing problem? Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:08:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Thomas Bentzen" Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net Sender: dtlc-owner@helios.net --- Eric Williamson wrote: > > > Does anyone know about the HDJ81 engine? > Is that the one with the bearing problem? I think that you're interested in the engine that came in the 80 series rigs. 1H-DT. 4.2 liter direct injection turbo diesel. Lower end BIG bearing faliures in SOME engines ranging from around 1991-1995 I think. Anyone else? Tom B ===== Tom Bentzen Issaquah, Washington Check-out the vehicles below at Fototime! http://www.fototime.com/inv/F6C5A23C38445DB Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:38:09 +0800 From: Drexx Laggui To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net 22Oct2003 (UTC -7) Quoting Eric Williamson : || Does anyone know about the HDJ81 engine? || Is that the one with the bearing problem? Eric, this info may prove interesting reading for you: http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html Drexx Laggui -- TLCA; PMC San Jose, CA, USA http://www.pbase.com/drexx (FZJ-80; HDJ-80; UZJ-100) _________________________________________________________________________= _______ This mail was sent through Internet Manila I-Mail: https://www.i-mail.com= .ph Visit the I-Manila Forums at http://forum.i-manila.com.ph/ From: "HZJ80" To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:11:50 +1000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net <-> From: Drexx Laggui [mailto:drexx@i-manila.com.ph] <-> Quoting Eric Williamson : <-> || Does anyone know about the HDJ81 engine? <-> || Is that the one with the bearing problem? <-> <-> Eric, this info may prove interesting reading for you: <-> <-> http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bear<-> ings.html <-> <-> Drexx Laggui -- TLCA; PMC <-> San Jose, CA, USA <-> http://www.pbase.com/drexx (FZJ-80; HDJ-80; UZJ-100) As time continues, it is possibly an oil quality issue at the heart. Oils ain't oils, Sol. Ian B Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:54:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Thomas Bentzen" Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net --- HZJ80 wrote: > As time continues, it is possibly an oil quality issue at the heart. > Oils ain't oils, Sol. > > Ian B Synthetic, synthetic, synthetic, and lastly SYNTHETIC! Amsoil Heavy duty diesel -OR- Mobil Delvac One. Using one of these diesel oils AND proper filtration will give your engine a forever (well nearly anyway) life span! http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/ http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/by-pass.shtml http://members.shaw.ca/amsoildealer/bf.htm http://www.bypassfilter.com/ TB From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:15:10 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 23 Oct 2003 at 16:11, HZJ80 wrote: > As time continues, it is possibly an oil quality issue at the heart. > Oils ain't oils, Sol. No, it's not, see my own comments inside this huge file, about the meticulously maintained rig of the owner of my shop: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend.htm (bottom line: even at 5k intervals with synthetic, he was *very* glad I pointed him to this problem) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:34:51 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 22 Oct 2003 at 23:54, J. Thomas Bentzen wrote: > Synthetic, synthetic, synthetic, and lastly SYNTHETIC! Not relevant, at least *NOT* to the point of preventing catastrophic failure, see other posting. Also, if the oil was the only problem, why did Toyota introduce a superceeded partnumber? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:46:56 -0600 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:15 AM > On 23 Oct 2003 at 16:11, HZJ80 wrote: > > > As time continues, it is possibly an oil quality issue at the heart. > > Oils ain't oils, Sol. > > No, it's not, see my own comments inside this huge file, about the > meticulously maintained rig of the owner of my shop: > > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend.htm > > (bottom line: even at 5k intervals with synthetic, he was *very* glad > I pointed him to this problem) very interesting reading... now i am not so sure i want a 1990 HDJ81... you would think that with all the HDJ81s running around Japan this would be very noticable over there...wonder why not... Wayne www.crushersrule.com http://www.luxuryimports.ca/index.html have you laughed 8^)) at a jeep, lately? Calgary Alberta Canada Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:50:14 -0600 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "HZJ80" > As time continues, it is possibly an oil quality issue at the heart. > Oils ain't oils, Sol. so Ian, would you replace just the mains or what else is a problem with these trucks? Wayne Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Thomas Bentzen" Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net So, I have a 1994 1HZ going into my HJ60. Am I going to have to worry about the SAME big bearing issues? Tom B ===== Tom Bentzen Issaquah, Washington Check-out the vehicles below at Fototime! http://www.fototime.com/inv/F6C5A23C38445DB From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:27:10 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net >From: wayne@crushersrule.com > >very interesting reading... >now i am not so sure i want a 1990 HDJ81... >you would think that with all the HDJ81s running around Japan this would be >very noticable over there...wonder why not... Apparently, the reason is different oils. In japan, they use oils with different additive packages than the oils offered in most of the rest of the world, and their additives are fine for their engines. the exception is Amsoil. It (coincidentally) has very similiar additives to what the Japanese diesel oils have, and therefore, 1HD-T motors that have had a steady diet of Amsoil are OK. Mine included. From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:31:12 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 23 Oct 2003 at 15:27, Dana Adams wrote: > >From: wayne@crushersrule.com > > >>very interesting reading... > >now i am not so sure i want a 1990 HDJ81... > >you would think that with all the HDJ81s running around Japan this > >would be very noticable over there...wonder why not... > > Apparently, the reason is different oils. In japan, they use oils > with different additive packages than the oils offered in most of the > rest of the world, and their additives are fine for their engines. > the exception is Amsoil. It (coincidentally) has very similiar > additives to what the Japanese diesel oils have, and therefore, 1HD-T > motors that have had a steady diet of Amsoil are OK. Mine included. Did you run this oil a) from 0km onwards, with b) the early bearings (non-superceeded partnumber; IOW: can you exclude the previous owner having changed them?) and c) did you open up the engine & bearings after 200k? And, most important: can you exclude the argument that the typical Japanese non-use/non-stress conditions are responsible? These conditions make every Japanese export-vehicle hardly used. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:31:12 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 23 Oct 2003 at 7:04, J. Thomas Bentzen wrote: > So, I have a 1994 1HZ going into my HJ60. Am I going to have to worry > about the SAME big bearing issues? Indeed exact same bearing, but much less load/heat/rpm whatever. However, compensated by much miles, the wear patterns/damage gets similar....my shop has seen those already too. Aftermarket turbo aggrevates this problem with 1HZ too of course. -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:17:07 +1000 From: "Greg Goulden" Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of > J. Thomas Bentzen > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:04 AM > > So, I have a 1994 1HZ going into my HJ60. Am I going to have to worry > about the SAME big bearing issues? > > > Tom B Hi Tom, I wouldn't be concerned with the 1HZ. Although it's been noted that at least a couple of aftermarket turbo'ed 1HZ's which have been pulled apart have shown similar signs, by design the combustion process is slower and the power stroke of the indirect injected motor is much softer compared to the very sharp stroke of the direct injected motor. It really was only a problem with the earlier 1HD-T's. The later (1995+) 1HD-FT's use the same (later superceeded) bigend bearings as the other 2 engines, and the problem hasn't really shown up since. As Ian suggested, recent discussions indicate that the original root cause could have been a lubrication issue. The Japanese OE oils use a different chemical makeup to what most oils here in OZ do. For anyone owning a 1HD-T with dubious service history or no knowledge of prior BE replacement, replacing the bearings is relatively easy and excellent insurance IMO. "Electrical" or "Fuel" problems relating to the BE bearings is quite costly (ie. when the rod pops out the side of the block and knocks off the alternator or fuel pump!) Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:20:39 +0900 To: dtlc@helios.net From: stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net At 20:58 03/10/23 -0700, you wrote: > The Japanese OE oils use a different > chemical makeup to what most oils here in OZ do. I have asked a number of people here about this issue and just get blank looks in response. Must be the rendered Roo fat they use down under for lubrication. Dave Stedman Kakogawa Japan N 34=B0 45' 45.2" E 134=B0 52'22.3" stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp stedman@canada.com From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:44:53 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net >From: w.j.markerink@a1.NL >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:31:12 +0200 > >On 23 Oct 2003 at 15:27, Dana Adams wrote: > > > >From: wayne@crushersrule.com > > > > >>very interesting reading... > > >now i am not so sure i want a 1990 HDJ81... > > >you would think that with all the HDJ81s running around Japan this > > >would be very noticable over there...wonder why not... > > > > Apparently, the reason is different oils. In japan, they use oils > > with different additive packages than the oils offered in most of the > > rest of the world, and their additives are fine for their engines. > > the exception is Amsoil. It (coincidentally) has very similiar > > additives to what the Japanese diesel oils have, and therefore, 1HD-T > > motors that have had a steady diet of Amsoil are OK. Mine included. > >Did you run this oil a) from 0km onwards, with b) the early bearings >(non-superceeded partnumber; IOW: can you exclude the previous owner >having changed them?) and c) did you open up the engine & bearings >after 200k? > >And, most important: can you exclude the argument that the typical >Japanese non-use/non-stress conditions are responsible? >These conditions make every Japanese export-vehicle hardly used. The history of this engine is: A low km engine from Japan was installed into this truck (conversion from petrol) in 1994. From that point on, it had Amsoil exclusively. It has now done nearly 300,000 miles. When I bought it, just a couple thousand miles ago, the oil pan had never been removed, it had the original FIPG in place. This supported the statement of the original owner/converter who told me he'd never had the oil pan off. Yes, I hear you about the relatively easy life cars have in Japan. On the other hand, there are a fair number of these engine running around over there, and the bearing problem has been absent. Maybe some of that is attributable to the easy work load, but I'm sure that some of these cruisers do not lead an easy life. Now don't get me wrong, Willem Jan, I think the OEM bearings in the 1HD-T engine are trash. What I'm saying is that if the proper oil is run in them from early-on, you should be able to see a normal service interval from them. Obviously that interval would be much longer if the bearings had been proper to start with. Dana Dana Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:05:22 +1000 From: "Greg Goulden" Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of > stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp > > I have asked a number of people here about this issue and just get blank > looks in response. Must be the rendered Roo fat they use down under for > lubrication. > > > Dave Stedman > Kakogawa Japan > N 34=B0 45' 45.2" E 134=B0 52'22.3" > stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp stedman@canada.com > > Possibly Dave, But the oil companies shouldn't be skimping, there's plenty of roos to be had ;-) But from the information that's been travelling round, it would seem more= of a calcium vs. magnesium chemical additive. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:39:24 +0900 To: dtlc@helios.net From: stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net At 15:05 03/10/24 +1000, you wrote: >But the oil companies shouldn't be skimping, there's plenty of roos to be >had ;-) Common urban rumour up here is that ham from Oz is 100% Roo. No one will buy it, but they gobble up that raw whale meat like it was mana from heaven. Dave Stedman Kakogawa Japan N 34=B0 45' 45.2" E 134=B0 52'22.3" stedman@ans.kobe-u.ac.jp stedman@canada.com From: "HZJ80" To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:03:44 +1000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net <-> From: wayne@crushersrule.com [mailto:wayne@crushersrule.com] <-> so Ian, would you replace just the mains or what else is a <-> problem with these trucks? Wayne <-> ----- Original Message ----- <-> From: "HZJ80" <-> <-> > As time continues, it is possibly an oil quality issue at the heart. <-> > Oils ain't oils, Sol. Not mains, it's the big end (BE) bearings that suffer. In Australia we now have oils specially denoted as being for Japanese designed motors Vs Europe or USA. The motors have proven to be pretty bullet proof other than this. The only other 'unusual' wear item on the motor is the harmonic balancer and I'd give it a good close visual (don't remove) every 100000km. Most motors seem to be fine, but mine and a percentage of others have suffered crank damage due to defective rubber in the HB. Ian B From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net, hzj80@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:41:34 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net >The motors have proven to be pretty bullet proof other than this. The >only other 'unusual' wear item on the motor is the harmonic balancer and >I'd give it a good close visual (don't remove) every 100000km. Most >motors seem to be fine, but mine and a percentage of others have >suffered crank damage due to defective rubber in the HB. > >Ian B > Ian, what are the symptoms of a failed, or failing, HB? What damage does it do to the crank? thanks Dana From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 02:53:52 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 24 Oct 2003 at 12:17, Greg Goulden wrote: > Hi Tom, > > I wouldn't be concerned with the 1HZ. > > Although it's been noted that at least a couple of aftermarket turbo'ed > 1HZ's which have been pulled apart have shown similar signs, by design the > combustion process is slower and the power stroke of the indirect injected > motor is much softer compared to the very sharp stroke of the direct > injected motor. > > It really was only a problem with the earlier 1HD-T's. The later (1995+) > 1HD-FT's use the same (later superceeded) bigend bearings as the other 2 > engines, and the problem hasn't really shown up since. Also note that the 1HD-T is still being mounted in Cruisers for some markets; at least this was the case with the HDJ-100 in some Central- /South-American countries, and I heard similar stories about 80- series in their later years (but never saw brochures about those, would be harder to establish model-year from a brochure than with 100- series anyway of course). -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:47:59 +1000 From: "Greg Goulden" Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of > w.j.markerink@a1.NL > > Also note that the 1HD-T is still being mounted in Cruisers for some > markets; at least this was the case with the HDJ-100 in some Central- > /South-American countries, and I heard similar stories about 80- > series in their later years (but never saw brochures about those, Yep, My "100" series microfiche lists the FZJ105, HZJ105, UZJ100 and the HDJ100. Only problem is that the HDJ100 is the 1HD-T. No mention of the 1HD-FTE whatsoever. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:50:36 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] HDJ81 ENGINE Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Btw, while adding this very interesting discussion about oil-spec analysis to the file on my homepage, I realized that some might translate it wrongly & dangerously with: 'If I run Amsoil from now on, I don't have to check my bearings'.... plus: 'After replacing I must run Amsoil' While after 100k or more, there is no choice but to check the bearings (and hence replace them while you are in there anyway). And after replacing, Amsoil probably has no better effect than any synthetic. At least not within the check-interval we expect from a Cruiser in now normal condition (at which point we probably will replace the bearings anyway again). And all this while our local European dealers certainly don't poor Amsoil synthetic (?were we talking about synthetic anyway, btw?) out of their generic nozzles (for gasoline & diesel all from one tank). Or: does *every* Japanes shop really pump Amsoil synthetic from drums? (don't tell me their generic nozzles poor Amsoil or synthetic!) (Euro nozzles poor 50/50 dino/synthetic btw, since a decade or so, previously it was 100% dino) Willem (this must have been the single most large blunder the Japanese ever did in mis-interpreting test-results of engine wear) Jan -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:47:50 +0100 Subject: [80_aus] THE FIRST ONE JUST ARRIVED. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Today we got a 100 series Turbodiesel in with 1HD-FTE engine and 162000km on the odo. Small hole in the piston due to a injector failure. What surprised us, and this is the first 1HD-FTE we found this, is the connectingrodbearingproblem returned. 1 shell out of 12 had this with 5 others developping the same symtoms. We took other engines apart that had over 300.000km and found nothing like that. Maintenance was great, everything by the book and dealer. We will stay on the lookout and keep you posted. Best regards, Maarten Verschure To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "John Springer" Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:35:38 +1100 Subject: [80_aus] Big end bearing failure Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Iam a new member and have not caught up with the latest on big end bearing failures affecting 1hd-t motors. My car is a 1hd-ft multi valve and I would like to know if there are as many problems with these motors as there have been with the 1hd-t my motor has done 98000 K,s and is due for its major service. Is there anything specific I should be on the lookout for or is there anything I can do to avoid this problem or is it just something that is a bad trait with turbo toyotas John Springer To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Stuart McMurtrie" Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:14:14 +1000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] Big end bearing failure Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Springer Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 2:35 PM > Iam a new member and have not caught up with the latest on big end > bearing failures affecting 1hd-t motors. My car is a 1hd-ft multi valve > and I would like to know if there are as many problems with these motors > as there have been with the 1hd-t my motor has done 98000 K,s and is due > for its major service. Is there anything specific I should be on the > lookout for or is there anything I can do to avoid this problem or is it > just something that is a bad trait with turbo toyotas John Springer John As a general response (ie not specific to "your"1HD-FT), the big end bearing failure problem was limited to the 1HD-T. I have not heard of any 1HD-FT engines failing in this manner. A big "must do" for your next service is replace timing belt and probably the timing belt idler too. regards Stuart McMurtrie Brisbane To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:00:20 +0100 Subject: RE: [80_aus] Big end bearing failure Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: John Springer [mailto:johnspringer@optushome.com.au] Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2003 5:36 > Iam a new member and have not caught up with the latest on big end > bearing failures affecting 1hd-t motors. My car is a 1hd-ft multi valve > and I would like to know if there are as many problems with these motors > as there have been with the 1hd-t my motor has done 98000 K,s and is due > for its major service. Is there anything specific I should be on the > lookout for or is there anything I can do to avoid this problem or is it > just something that is a bad trait with turbo toyotas > John Springer Hi John, I should check these on 2 occasions and for different reasons; 1) Now while doing the 100.000km service for; a) To be sure and peace of mind. B) You have to change oil and filter anyway so its only 4 hours extra job + a bit of silicone gasket ( FIPG Form-In-Place-Gasket ). You will probably find nothing, our youngest one was around 120.000km.( real exception ). 2) At the 200.000km service for; a) Again peace of mind, b) If its going to happen its probably starting to show, c) Protect your investment, small cost against 2nd mortgage, d) You have to change the oil anyway. PS; At 200.000km except the belt you should replace the guidewheel and HYDRAULIC TENSIONER. If you engine is an early one, beginning 1995 you should considder replacing the hydraulic tensioner with the later version; # 13540-17011 because the older partnumber # 13540-17010 is suspected of causing unexplained valve problems, probably a jumped T-Belt that made valves hit pistons. Toyota has changed the partnumber and that could mean a few things. Oke, take care, don't worry but keep this in mind. Best regards, Maarten Verschure To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:41:36 +0100 Subject: RE: [80_aus] Big end bearing failure Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stuart McMurtrie [mailto:stulea@bigpond.net.au] Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2003 6:14 > John > > As a general response (ie not specific to "your"1HD-FT), the big end > bearing failure problem was limited to the 1HD-T. I have not heard of > any 1HD-FT engines failing in this manner. A big "must do" for your next > service is replace timing belt and probably the timing belt idler too. They go bad on 1HD-FT as well but not so often. More at high milage. ( over 250.000km ) Maarten Verschure To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:29:29 +0200 Subject: [80_aus] CONROD BEARINGS 1HD-FT - 1HZ Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Good day to you all, Today we bumped into another engine with a bad conrod bearing. 1HD-FT 158.456 km 1996 model. From 12 shells only 1 was bad, the rest looked great, not a single mark. The bad one was 50% I should say. A customer of ours had a conrodbearing failing at 180.000km on a 1993 1HZ. Because he is doing all work himself I cannot check the reason but I will recieve the remaining shells from him and see what has happend. This means we still have to stay alert and protect your investment. Sleep well and have a great weekend, Maarten Verschure To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: andrew lukies Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:07:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80_aus] CONROD BEARINGS 1HD-FT - 1HZ Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- All American Imports wrote: > Good day to you all, > > Today we bumped into another engine with a bad > conrod bearing. > > 1HD-FT 158.456 km 1996 model. From 12 shells > only 1 was bad, the > rest looked great, not a single mark. > > The bad one was 50% I should say. > > A customer of ours had a conrodbearing failing at > 180.000km on a 1993 > 1HZ. Because he is doing all work himself I cannot > check the reason but > I will recieve the remaining shells from him and see > what has happend. > > This means we still have to stay alert and protect > your investment. > > Sleep well and have a great weekend, > > > Maarten > Verschure Gday A friend just bought a cheapy 1hz 75 series with a knocking motor. Off came the sump, and no 1 bigend was almost metal to metal - crank was badly scored. I suppose there is always an exception to the rule. Andrew 94 fzj80 auto From: Willem-Jan Markerink To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: CONROD BEARINGS 1HD-FT - 1HZ Cc: 80scool@yahoogroups.com, dtlc@helios.net, All American Imports Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:48:33 +0200 On 3 Apr 2004 at 9:29, All American Imports wrote: > Good day to you all, > > Today we bumped into another engine with a bad conrod bearing. > > 1HD-FT 158.456 km 1996 model. From 12 shells only 1 was bad, the > rest looked great, not a single mark. > > The bad one was 50% I should say. > > A customer of ours had a conrodbearing failing at 180.000km on a 1993 > 1HZ. Because he is doing all work himself I cannot check the reason > but I will recieve the remaining shells from him and see what has > happend. > > This means we still have to stay alert and protect your investment. > > Sleep well and have a great weekend, Btw, a good reason *not* to sleep well is the fact that this 1HD-FT (even more so the 1HD-FTE/162k sample you posted on 9 december 2003) has in fact the later bearings, with the superceeded partnumber, hence the same bearings most of us used as replacements. (all reports can be found in http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend.htm , last reports on the bottom) Conclusion therefore is that all those who replaced them once on 1HD- T will have to check them again within 100k km's....and by then ditch Toyota bearings altogether, and get the aftermarket copper/lead bearings.... Anyone ever heard by now *why* Toyota used aluminium/tin instead of the far more common copper/lead? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "iancp5" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:59:18 -0000 Subject: [80] The big end problem on 1HD-T Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Just read about this, it's a bit scary. If I understand correctly the early BE bearings were faulty. Do ALL 1HD-T's have the problem? Mine was a Jap import. Some threads seem to think they were ok in Japan because the oil is different. That seems unlikely to me but any truth in it? Also some discussion saying that using high quality oil like synthetic prevents the problem? I intend asking Toyota GB if they can check if my bearings have been replaced already with the fixed part. Not sure if they keep records like that. Ian. To: "'80scool@yahoogroups.com'" <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Richmond, Peter" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:22:40 +1000 Subject: RE: [80] The big end problem on 1HD-T Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: iancp5 [mailto:ianp@f2s.com] Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2004 4:59 AM > Just read about this, it's a bit scary. If I understand correctly the > early BE bearings were faulty. > > Do ALL 1HD-T's have the problem? > > Mine was a Jap import. Some threads seem to think they were ok in > Japan because the oil is different. That seems unlikely to me but any > truth in it? Also some discussion saying that using high quality oil > like synthetic prevents the problem? > > I intend asking Toyota GB if they can check if my bearings have been > replaced already with the fixed part. Not sure if they keep records > like that. > > Ian. Ian For the cost of getting them checked/replaced is cheap peace of mind. Use Caltex CXJ oil in it from now on i.e keep away from API standard oil that US stuff in high performance Japanese diesel engines can't be good for them. My 91 had failing bearings at only 75,000km's (couple small flakes on 2 sets) but Toyota replaced them at half parts and labour in 2000 9 years after manufacture. KP 91 HDJ80 1HD-T 145,000km's Canberra OZ To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "iancp5" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:26:01 -0000 Subject: [80] Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Just had a part amusing and part frustrating telephone call with Toyota GB trying to get them to check if my BE bearings have ever been replaced under warranty. You'd think I'd asked them to stick their hand in an ants nest! First the poor girl who had to take the call barely knew what an engine was and was given the run around by various departments who probably understood what I was asking but were trying hard not to get involved. In fact I doubt they would have agreed to even try to find this out had I not insisted and asked for either the contact in Japan or a letter stating that this information is not kept. So I will now wait a number of weeks to probably get no response but at least it might be on record somewhere that I tried. In short how do I tell if my 1991 1HDT is vulnerable to the BE bearing problem, it has only done 65,000 Km or 40,000 miles and seems reasonably quiet for a diesel. Is it expensive to have a dealer check them? I am also unsure from the threads I have found on this if Toyota have fixed the problem or they just fit new but faulty bearings? Thanks, Ian. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Andy Bell" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:40 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > Just had a part amusing and part frustrating telephone call with > Toyota GB... Hi Ian, I had exactly the same deal with them last year, with my previous 80 (a '94 GB model). They denied all knowledge of any sort of BE bearing problem, so I sent them reams of stuff from 80scool, Birfield and other sources, but they told me it was all irrelevant as these were 'foreign' Land Cruisers and not at all like the ones they sell here (yeah right....). Anyway, I've now got a '92 Jap import (the last one died) and am about to change the BE bearings myself. I got the Toyota engine manual from Milner (well worth it, though the Haynes book is okay for the 1HD-T) and it looks like a fairly straghtforward job to change the 5 'middle' bearings. Looks like the end ones need the engine out to change - so I'll leave those, I guess. Anyway, at about �300 for parts, it's a small price for peace of mind. On a slightly related note, when taking off my camshaft recently (the car is well and truly out of comission at the mo), I stupidly dropped one of the journal bolts down a 'hole' in the head. I've been trying to fish it out with a magnet, but the hole seems very deep (18 inches anyway) - does anyone know how the head/block casting works? Will I find my bolt in the sump, when I take it off to change the BE bearings?? cheers for now, Andy From: "danamotors" Date: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:57 am Subject: Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings "Andy Bell" wrote: > > > Just had a part amusing and part frustrating telephone call with > > Toyota GB... > > Hi Ian, > > I had exactly the same deal with them last year, with my previous 80 > (a '94 GB model). They denied all knowledge of any sort of BE > bearing problem, so I sent them reams of stuff from 80scool, Birfield > and other sources, but they told me it was all irrelevant as these > were 'foreign' Land Cruisers and not at all like the ones they sell > here (yeah right....). > > Anyway, I've now got a '92 Jap import (the last one died) and am > about to change the BE bearings myself. I got the Toyota engine > manual from Milner (well worth it, though the Haynes book is okay for > the 1HD-T) and it looks like a fairly straghtforward job to change > the 5 'middle' bearings. Looks like the end ones need the engine out > to change - so I'll leave those, I guess. Anyway, at about �300 for > parts, it's a small price for peace of mind. > > On a slightly related note, when taking off my camshaft recently (the > car is well and truly out of comission at the mo), I stupidly dropped > one of the journal bolts down a 'hole' in the head. I've been trying > to fish it out with a magnet, but the hole seems very deep (18 inches > anyway) - does anyone know how the head/block casting works? Will I > find my bolt in the sump, when I take it off to change the BE > bearings?? > > cheers for now, > > Andy Wow Andy, $300 pounds for parts? Why don't you simply fit the ACL bearings from OZ. I'm sure they'll fit that "foreign" cruiser just fine. :-) A lot less money, and they work fine. Cu/Pb construction instead of Al/Sn. They're available here in the states from Hastings. cost me all of $12US for the set. The bolt you dropped will most likely be sitting at the bottom of the sump. And you can easily do all 6 rod bearings (12 half-shells) with the pan removed. You want to do all 6. From: Ian Packer Date: Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:18 pm Subject: Re: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings On Tue, 2004-04-13 at 17:57, danamotors wrote: > Wow Andy, $300 pounds for parts? Why don't you simply fit the ACL > bearings from OZ. I'm sure they'll fit that "foreign" cruiser just > fine. :-) A lot less money, and they work fine. Cu/Pb > construction instead of Al/Sn. They're available here in the states > from Hastings. cost me all of $12US for the set. > > The bolt you dropped will most likely be sitting at the bottom of > the sump. > > And you can easily do all 6 rod bearings (12 half-shells) with the > pan removed. You want to do all 6. > > Sounds like I should schedule this job in soon. I hope that as I don't have the "ticking" noise it's not imminently about to fall apart. I like the price of these ACL bearings. Is there a website that you can order them from? So when I have the sump off I assume there is somewhere I can rotate and lock the crank? I assume it has glow plugs that can be removed to make rotation easier? Thanks, Ian. From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:55 pm Subject: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings --- In 80scool@yahoogroups.com, Ian Packer wrote: > Sounds like I should schedule this job in soon. I hope that as I > don't have the "ticking" noise it's not imminently about to fall > apart. As has been suggested, schedule job when an oil change is due. Park it the night before to let all the oil drip off the internals instead of in your face. Be prepared for the removal of the sump to be your biggest problem if it hasn't been removed or was refitted with the Toyota silastic (FIPG). > > So when I have the sump off I assume there is somewhere I can rotate > and lock the crank? I assume it has glow plugs that can be removed > to make rotation easier? Why do you want to lock the crank? Yes the engine has glow plugs, but at the slow speed you need to rotate the engine just use a 32mm socket on the crank bolt and rotate clockwise to where it's required. Regards, Greg Goulden. 2000 HDJ105 From: ianp@f... Date: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:19 am Subject: Re: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Quoting Greg Goulden : > > So when I have the sump off I assume there is somewhere I can rotate > > and lock the crank? I assume it has glow plugs that can be removed > > to make rotation easier? > > Why do you want to lock the crank? Yes the engine has glow plugs, but I thought that when I'm trying to undo the big ends it'll be a pain if the crank keeps moving. Ian. From: Brian and Sandra Monger Date: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings On Wednesday, April 14, 2004, at 09:55 AM, Greg Goulden wrote: > As has been suggested, schedule job when an oil change is due. Park > it the night before to let all the oil drip off the internals instead > of in your face. and even then, wear safety glasses and be prepared to take a shower after. it's astounding how much oil sticks to the inside of the motor only to drip on you once the sump is off! > > Be prepared for the removal of the sump to be your biggest problem if > it hasn't been removed or was refitted with the Toyota silastic > (FIPG). yes! the first one of these I ever did took me 2+ hours to get the sump off! tips: *use a sharp snap-off or stanley knife to cut as deep as you can into the FIPG, *use some plastic tiler's wedges (go to a tile shop and ask for wedges, they'll know what you mean and as soon as you see them you'll know what to do with them!) to drive in to separate the sump from the block. *once I have had to use a jack between the chassis and the sump to get them to separate. I'm sure there are probably better ways to get the sump off but the knife + wedges works for me. the wedges are fairly soft plastic so the only damage is to the disposable wedges. >> > > Why do you want to lock the crank? Yes the engine has glow plugs, but > at the slow speed you need to rotate the engine just use a 32mm > socket on the crank bolt and rotate clockwise to where it's required. also once the first couple of pistons are unbolted from the crank, it gets easier to turn, once 3 - 4 are unbolted you can just grab it by a counterweight and swing it by hand. enjoy! Brian To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Andy Bell" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:42:37 -0000 Subject: [80] Toyota GB and BE bearings / Bearing import collective?? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com hey guys - yeah I was having a 'monday moment' yesterday (even though it was tuesday - blame the Easter holiday) - and did get my mains and big ends confused for a moment. Anyway, it's the bigs ends I'm changing - all 6 of em :-) given the availability of these cheaper/better bearings from the US and Australia, I'm wondering if any of the guys in the UK would like to make a combined order for a few sets? We can save on hassle and shipping maybe. Anyway, if anyone fancies it, I'll be happy to order them up. finally, could one of our comrades overseas give a hot tip as to where these bearings are available at a decent price? cheers for now, Andy To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:06:42 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings / Bearing import collective?? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com "Andy Bell" wrote: > hey guys - > > yeah I was having a 'monday moment' yesterday (even though it was > tuesday - blame the Easter holiday) - and did get my mains and big > ends confused for a moment. Anyway, it's the bigs ends I'm changing - > all 6 of em :-) > > given the availability of these cheaper/better bearings from the US > and Australia, I'm wondering if any of the guys in the UK would like > to make a combined order for a few sets? We can save on hassle and > shipping maybe. Anyway, if anyone fancies it, I'll be happy to order > them up. > > finally, could one of our comrades overseas give a hot tip as to > where these bearings are available at a decent price? > > cheers for now, > > Andy manufacturer's website: http://www.acl.com.au/ I got mine from Hastings in Michigan, this was approx 16 months ago. They had some affiliation with ACL and were distributing the ACL product in USA. I was astounded at the low price. Seriously, it was about $9 for the bearings, and $7 to ship it to my house. I was wondering at the time if they hadn't made a mistake in the pricing. http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ As far as removing the oil pan: a PITA for sure. I ended up making a fairly authentic copy of the SST, using the line drawing in the FSM as a guide. I used the blade from a 3" wide putty knife, cut so that it was only about 2" deep, welded it onto a piece of 1/2" bar stock, and welded on a handle. This allowed for tapping it around the circumference of the pan, as the OEM SST tool is supposed to be used. Once I had that tool, it took only a few minutes to free up the pan. Also, someone mentioned the following: "also once the first couple of pistons are unbolted from the crank, it gets easier to turn, once 3 - 4 are unbolted you can just grab it by acounterweight and swing it by hand." I'm not sure you could rotate the crankshaft very far with all the rods unbolted from the crank, but that would be extremely dangerous. Very very easy to nick the crank journals. I would strongly suggest doing only one big-end bearing at a time from start to finish, and only then moving on to the next. Good idea to plastigauge it as well. Rotating the crank is easy, I used a large screwdriver on the flywheel teeth. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Craig Vincent Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:06:29 +1200 Subject: Re: [80] The big end problem on 1HD-T Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi Ian, iancp5 wrote: >Just read about this, it's a bit scary. If I understand correctly the >early BE bearings were faulty. ---I don't see the bearings as actually being faulty but a number of factors can combine together to cause premature failure of the bearings as a 'sub surface fatigue failure mode' which if not attended to in time can cause catastrophic failure of the engine. >Do ALL 1HD-T's have the problem? ---Lots of engines are susceptible to it not just 1HD-T's but it is more common in direct injection japanese diesels & partly due to the engine design running (purposefully, Why?) quite high oil temps. >Mine was a Jap import. Some threads seem to think they were ok in >Japan because the oil is different. That seems unlikely to me but any >truth in it? Also some discussion saying that using high quality oil >like synthetic prevents the problem? ---The oil sold in Japan typically has calcium based detergents in it at levels of 3000-4500+ppm (parts per million) this is a very detergent oil compared to a lot of oils formulated for american engines (700-2500+ppm magnesium based detergents, magnesium based detergent is thermally unstable at normal working temps of a japanese diesel engine that is why it is not used in japanese OEM oils) as a side benefit extreme levels of calcium have a very strong bearing pacifying affect reducing the bearings susceptibility to chemical attack by its own oil which contributes to the onset of subsurface fatigue failures. Synthetic oil per-se is not a fix (or prevention method) you want an oil with low or no magnesium and preferably in excess of 3000+ppm calcium based detergents the oils that I know of that meet the above requirements are: Caltex Delo CXJ 15w40 (the J is for japanese) mineral oil, Castrol J-Max 15w40 mineral oil, Amsoil Marine oil 15w40 synthetic oil, Amsoil series 3000 5w30 synthetic oil, I know BP in Europe makes some nice high calcium synthetic diesel oils also but I don't know names or product codes. My favorite of the above is the 5w30 amsoil but it is seriously expensive and unless you are running extended drains supported by routine oil analysis it is too expensive to drain every 5000km. Cheers, Craig. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Ian Packer Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:54:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com On Wed, 2004-04-14 at 01:29, Brian and Sandra Monger wrote: > I'm sure there are probably better ways to get the sump off but the > knife + wedges works for me. the wedges are fairly soft plastic so the > only damage is to the disposable wedges. And putting the sump back on? I take it from the text I cut about silastic this is some sort of sealant. Never heard of it - can it be got in any automotive shop? Will any suitable automotive sealant do or is this something special? Last time I worked on a car it had a gasket! > > Why do you want to lock the crank? Yes the engine has glow plugs, but > > at the slow speed you need to rotate the engine just use a 32mm > > socket on the crank bolt and rotate clockwise to where it's required. Just thought it might move when I'm trying to undo big end bolts or torquing them up again. > also once the first couple of pistons are unbolted from the crank, it > gets easier to turn, once 3 - 4 are unbolted you can just grab it by a > counterweight and swing it by hand. Ah but knowing my luck one will fall out or drop down and hit something. So I was thinking of doing one at a time. I'm assuming this can all be done with engine in place and just the sump off. I don't have to remove half the ancillaries or something do I? Thanks Ian. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:34:56 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > And putting the sump back on? > I take it from the text I cut about silastic this is some sort of > sealant. Never heard of it - can it be got in any automotive shop? Will > any suitable automotive sealant do or is this something special? > Last time I worked on a car it had a gasket! > > > > Why do you want to lock the crank? Yes the engine has glow plugs, but > > > at the slow speed you need to rotate the engine just use a 32mm > > > socket on the crank bolt and rotate clockwise to where it's required. > > Just thought it might move when I'm trying to undo big end bolts or > torquing them up again. > > > also once the first couple of pistons are unbolted from the crank, it > > gets easier to turn, once 3 - 4 are unbolted you can just grab it by a > > counterweight and swing it by hand. > > Ah but knowing my luck one will fall out or drop down and hit something. > So I was thinking of doing one at a time. I'm assuming this can all be > done with engine in place and just the sump off. I don't have to remove > half the ancillaries or something do I? > > Thanks > Ian. See previous post # 53396 about doing one at a time, and also pan removal techniques. FIPG (form in place gasket) available from Toyota. Black for engine oil pans, red for transmission pans. It comes in a tube, it's a very heavy-duty silicone sealant/glue. OEM from the factory is grey, but the same stuff. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Brian and Sandra Monger Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:13:14 +1000 Subject: Re: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 01:54 AM, Ian Packer wrote: > And putting the sump back on? > I take it from the text I cut about silastic this is some sort of > sealant. Never heard of it - can it be got in any automotive shop? Will > any suitable automotive sealant do or is this something special? > Last time I worked on a car it had a gasket! any car parts shop should have a suitable silicone based sealant. I prefer the neutral cure ones as they take a little longer to go off and don't stink. for a sump gasket the acid cure ones would be ok too. you will need about 100 - 150ml for the sump. you can get the genuine toyota FIPG (Formed In Place Gasket) but it is expensive. before you reassemble clean all the old gasket off the block (use a sharp knife) and off the sump (knife, maybe a little bit of wire brush action). > Just thought it might move when I'm trying to undo big end bolts or > torquing them up again. it's not really a problem - you end up with one hand on either end of your ratchet so any thrust you tend to cancel out. >> also once the first couple of pistons are unbolted from the crank, it >> gets easier to turn, once 3 - 4 are unbolted you can just grab it by a >> counterweight and swing it by hand. > Ah but knowing my luck one will fall out or drop down and hit > something. > So I was thinking of doing one at a time. I'm assuming this can all be > done with engine in place and just the sump off. I don't have to remove > half the ancillaries or something do I? they can't fall out, the friction of the rings in the bore is enough to hang them up out of the way. and yes all you need to take off is the sump and the oil pickup. and don't forget to put the oil pickup back on when you're done with the bearings. I've never done it but heard from blokes who have; "there was no oil pressure!!!!" I like to do them all together so I'm not constantly changing tools under there and so I know where I'm up to - 1. all lower yokes off, push pistons up, all upper bearing halves out 2. clean up and change over bearings on yokes 3. inspect all bolts (there are length and/or diameter specs, I have never seen a bad one) 4. all upper bearing halves in, pull rods down onto crank, fit yoke and finger tighten bolts x6 5. torque all bolts to spec (29Nm??? check the manual, I don't remember) then put a tiny dab of paint on each bolt at the same relative position 6. first 90 degree rotation of all bolts 7. second 90 degree rotation of all bolts - but you could modify the procedure to do them one at a time. oh yeah - you need a 12mm 12 point socket. if you have old-school tools you'll probably have one but the recent trend in sockets has been towards 6 point sockets that do less damage to regular bolt heads. and you need a GOOD 12 point socket, a crummy one will destroy itself and the bolt heads in short order. you have now graduated from the school of replacing your own big end bearings. you may wear the oil spotted shirt and the oil matted hair and say the sacred swear words of removing the sump for the first time. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Brian and Sandra Monger Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:29:24 +1000 Subject: Re: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 08:13 AM, Brian and Sandra Monger wrote: > I like to do them all together so I'm not constantly changing tools > under there and so I know where I'm up to... Dana I hear you on the ease of damaging the crank/rods with them all dangling. you only need about 90 - 120 degrees rotation on the crank to change all the bearings and I'm super-paranoid careful, but doing them one at a time minimises the chances of doing damage. I should be in less of a hurry to enjoy a #6 once the job is done. To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Mike Adams" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:45:34 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com I was very interested to read about the bearing problem. My 1996 model has this ticking noise. It has done about 120,000 miles. The ticking seems to come from the rear of the engine and is worse under load and cold. It is doomed or should I attempt to change the bearings? Regards Mike Adams To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Ian Packer Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:07:20 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com On Mon, 2004-04-19 at 10:45, Mike Adams wrote: > I was very interested to read about the bearing problem. My 1996 model > has this ticking noise. It has done about 120,000 miles. The ticking > seems to come from the rear of the engine and is worse under load and > cold. It is doomed or should I attempt to change the bearings? > Regards > Mike Adams Mike, I'm too inexperienced to advise, I just heard the failure is preceded by a ticking noise. Maybe some of the old hands can confirm? However I bet a ticking noise could also be a lot of other things. Ian. -- Ian Packer. A peaceful protest. http://www.fud.f2s.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Mike Adams" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:01:24 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Ian Packer [mailto:ianp@f2s.com] Sent: 19 April 2004 13:07 > Mike, > > I'm too inexperienced to advise, I just heard the failure is preceded by > a ticking noise. Maybe some of the old hands can confirm? However I bet > a ticking noise could also be a lot of other things. > > Ian. Thanks Ian Does anyone know exactly what causes the noise- is it piston contact with head? Also are all the bearing shells standard? I don't have a toyota manual? Lastly can the crank be reground if the journal has gone too far? Regards Mike Adams To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Ian Packer Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:15:07 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com On Mon, 2004-04-19 at 14:01, Mike Adams wrote: > Thanks Ian > Does anyone know exactly what causes the noise- is it piston contact with head? Also are all the bearing shells standard? I don't have a toyota manual? Lastly can the crank be reground if the journal has gone too far? > Regards > Mike Adams Dunno what the noise is caused by but yes you can regrind and get oversize shells. The recommendation seems to be ACL shells. They're an Ozzie company and do them with better material and at lower cost than Toyota allegedly. Ian. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Andy Bell" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:29:27 -0000 Subject: [80] Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi All, I've just removed the sump on my '92 TD with a view to checking/changing the big ends (and also to rescue the bolt I lost while taking off the camshaft the other day (see previous saga)). Anyway, the big end bearing caps are numbered with paint marks (I,II,III etc) and was was just wondering if this is normally done in the factory, or whether this indicates that the engine may have been rebuilt since new?? Also, for the UK listers, I've found that ACL bearings are quite easily available - I've got the details if you're interested. They seem to be about =A336 a set inc vat - much cheaper than toyota parts. cheers, Andy To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Paul Hannant" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:51:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [80] Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Bell" Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:29 PM > Hi All, > > I've just removed the sump on my '92 TD with a view to > checking/changing the big ends (and also to rescue the bolt I lost > while taking off the camshaft the other day (see previous saga)). > Anyway, the big end bearing caps are numbered with paint marks > (I,II,III etc) and was was just wondering if this is normally done > in the factory, or whether this indicates that the engine may have > been rebuilt since new?? > > Also, for the UK listers, I've found that ACL bearings are quite > easily available - I've got the details if you're interested. They > seem to be about =A336 a set inc vat - much cheaper than toyota parts. > > cheers, > > Andy Hi Andy is yours a 1hdt?I"m holding my breath to know their condition when you get at them!!Mine now has 166k miles on her and ,as far as I can tell, all"s well.PaulH 1HDT towing well! To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Andy Bell" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:02:28 -0000 Subject: Re: [80] Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hannant" wrote: > Hi Andy is yours a 1hdt?I"m holding my breath to know their condition when > you get at them!!Mine now has 166k miles on her and ,as far as I can tell, > all"s well.PaulH 1HDT towing well! Hi - Yes, it's a 1HD-T - of unspecified mileage (i.e. clocked - but I'm guessing about 130-150k). I'll try to post some pics up when I get them out. Just need the right sort of socket for the cap bolts - they are those 'cheese head' type ones. Cheers, Andy To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Maarten J.M.Verschure" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:46:09 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Adams" wrote: > I was very interested to read about the bearing problem. My 1996 > model has this ticking noise. It has done about 120,000 miles. The > ticking seems to come from the rear of the engine and is worse under > load and cold. It is doomed or should I attempt to change the > bearings? > Regards > Mike Adams Hi Mike, What engine do you have in your Landcruiser? Best regards, Maarten Verschure To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:26:04 +0200 Subject: Re: [80] Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com On 20 Apr 2004 at 16:29, Andy Bell wrote: > Hi All, > > I've just removed the sump on my '92 TD with a view to > checking/changing the big ends (and also to rescue the bolt I lost > while taking off the camshaft the other day (see previous saga)). > Anyway, the big end bearing caps are numbered with paint marks > (I,II,III etc) and was was just wondering if this is normally done in > the factory, or whether this indicates that the engine may have been > rebuilt since new?? > > Also, for the UK listers, I've found that ACL bearings are quite > easily available - I've got the details if you're interested. If you have (non-UK-specific) partnumbers, please share....;)) > They seem to be about UKP36 a set inc vat - much cheaper than toyota parts. A complete set would have to consist of 6x6 bearings....each of the 6 bearings in all 6 sizes....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Dave Harris" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:11:50 +0100 Subject: [80] Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com I was talking to a friend of mine who is a professional mechanic and has much experience with diesel engines and complete rebuilds crank grinding and the like. I told him of my concerns about premature Big End failure on my then current 1HDT powered cruiser. He told me that every engine that he had worked on had some damage or break up one or more of the big end shells and that this was normal. I would trust this guy totally and his experience. So I think that if you love your 1HDT cruiser then you need to fit new BE shells somewhere around the 100k to 150k mark. Don't be surprised at bearing damage if you find it as its to be expected. Keep an eye on your oil pressure and listen for knocking or rattling especially as the power increases from say 1500 rpm to 2200 rpm in 3rd gear on a quiet road. If in doubt sell it or change your shells. Love your cruiser. Dave Harris callanish.moon@virgin.net 97 VX 1HDFT UK To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:21:33 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Bell" wrote: > Hi All, > > I've just removed the sump on my '92 TD with a view to > checking/changing the big ends (and also to rescue the bolt I lost > while taking off the camshaft the other day (see previous saga)). > Anyway, the big end bearing caps are numbered with paint marks > (I,II,III etc) and was was just wondering if this is normally done > in the factory, or whether this indicates that the engine may have > been rebuilt since new?? Nope, not marked with paint from the factory. Only markings are the etched ones on the machined face on the side of the b/end part of the conrod. Those markings are used in conjunction with the markings on the crank to establish the "correct" standard size bearing shells fitted at the factory, of which there are 6 "standard" bearings. Usually the method used to seal or re-seal the sump is a give away it's been apart too. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:23:41 -0000 Subject: Re: [80] Paint marks on bearing shells - OE or not? Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Bell" wrote: > Just need the right sort of socket for the cap bolts - > they are those 'cheese head' type ones. Andy, You'll just need a standard 12 point or double hex 12mm socket. Very common and easily sourced. You will also need a torque wrench for the proper reassembly too. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Mike Adams" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:41:45 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Re: Toyota GB and BE bearings Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Maarten J.M.Verschure [mailto:maarten@all-american.nl] Sent: 20 April 2004 20:46 > Hi Mike, > > What engine do you have in your Landcruiser? > > Best regards, > > Maarten Verschure Hi Its the 1HDFT - the 24valve model. I am not driving it until I take the sump off and have a look. Regards Mike Adams To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Andy Bell" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:35:08 -0000 Subject: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi all, Firstly thanks to Greg for letting me know that the paint marks on my big end bearing caps weren't put there by Toyota! I've posted up a pic of one of my big end bearings - removed this very day. I'm guessing the mileage at about 130k - based on the general condition of the engine etc. Can't be sure though. Anyway, as you can see the top shell is deeply scored and there are a few pock marks, some quite deep. So, I'm glad I checked. Re. the ACL bearings, it transpires that while they are brought into the UK (Engine Parts UK are the importers), they don't seem to have any stock - ho hum! Anyway, on to the strange numbering thing now. According to the Toyota engine manual, you can either add up the crank mark and the con rod mark (in my case 2+2 = 4), or you can get the bearing number off the bearing itself. This latter thing is puzzling me as the bearing is just marked 'C1-1436' and 'STD NDC'. Anyone know what, if anything this all means? The saga continues. Cheers for now, Andy To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: andrew lukies Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- Andy Bell wrote: > Hi all, > > Firstly thanks to Greg for letting me know that the paint marks on > my big end bearing caps weren't put there by Toyota! > > I've posted up a pic of one of my big end bearings - removed this > very day. I'm guessing the mileage at about 130k - based on the > general condition of the engine etc. Can't be sure though. Anyway, > as you can see the top shell is deeply scored and there are a few > pock marks, some quite deep. So, I'm glad I checked. > > Re. the ACL bearings, it transpires that while they are brought into > the UK (Engine Parts UK are the importers), they don't seem to have > any stock - ho hum! > > Anyway, on to the strange numbering thing now. According to the > Toyota engine manual, you can either add up the crank mark and the > con rod mark (in my case 2+2 =3D 4), or you can get the bearing number > off the bearing itself. This latter thing is puzzling me as the > bearing is just marked 'C1-1436' and 'STD NDC'. Anyone know what, > if anything this all means? > > The saga continues. > > Cheers for now, > > Andy Hi I can only add what i was told about the numbers by a mechanic doing a bottom end. He said they are to do with the size of the crank journal and rod inner. Differences in tenths of a millimeter are gauged and corresponding numbers give you the best fit(squish) on the diameter Andrew 0z To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Mike Adams" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:41:22 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- Andy Bell wrote: > Hi all, > > Firstly thanks to Greg for letting me know that the paint marks on > my big end bearing caps weren't put there by Toyota! > > I've posted up a pic of one of my big end bearings - removed this > very day. I'm guessing the mileage at about 130k - based on the > general condition of the engine etc. Can't be sure though. Anyway, > as you can see the top shell is deeply scored and there are a few > pock marks, some quite deep. So, I'm glad I checked. > > Re. the ACL bearings, it transpires that while they are brought into > the UK (Engine Parts UK are the importers), they don't seem to have > any stock - ho hum! > > Anyway, on to the strange numbering thing now. According to the > Toyota engine manual, you can either add up the crank mark and the > con rod mark (in my case 2+2 =3D 4), or you can get the bearing number > off the bearing itself. This latter thing is puzzling me as the > bearing is just marked 'C1-1436' and 'STD NDC'. Anyone know what, > if anything this all means? > > The saga continues. > > Cheers for now, > > Andy Hi Andy Do you have the URL for your bearings? I am hoping to look at mine in the next few weeks and quite like the Idea of the ACL bearings. Have Engine Parts UK any plans to get them in or can they be ordered? Can I be right in assuming No6 cylinder is worst. I have heard that this is the one that goes first. My click seems to come from the rear end of the engine. Regards Mike Adams To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Maarten J.M.Verschure" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:52:10 -0000 Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Adams" wrote: > Hi Andy > Do you have the URL for your bearings? I am hoping to look at mine > in the next few weeks and quite like the Idea of the ACL bearings. > Have Engine Parts UK any plans to get them in or can they be ordered? > Can I be right in assuming No6 cylinder is worst. I have heard that > this is the one that goes first. My click seems to come from the rear > end of the engine. > Regards > Mike Adams Hi Mike, If you hear these bearings ticking Im afraid you are already too late. Could be something totally different. We have found bad bearings on 1HD-FT but not many times. Enough do to keep an eye on the situation and we still advice customers to check and replace to protect their investment. No 6 is not always the one that goes first, mostly cilinders 2, 3 and 4 but other specialists could have different expiriences. ACL is fine when you go undersize but for a standard crank we prefer original Toyota because they supply 5 standard sizes that give you the possibillity to finetune your oilgap. We mostly find bearingsize 3 and 4 in engines and replace these in many cases with one size higher. So take a no. 3 out and put a no.4 in. Works great and watch your oilpressure gauge. If a bearing runs out you are in for a big job;Taking the cranck out. Hearing from Toyota the price of a crank you probably decide, after coming back out of the black out, to regrind it. Good possibility but think about this; Toyota diesel cranks are very hard on the surface and tend to develop hairlinecracks when rods with runout bearings are banging on the surface. You do a beautiful grind job and be very surprised breaking the crank within 30.000 km. You could be lucky but for us its simple; Need a grindjob; Throw it away. We ALWAYS do. Labor and frustration are too expensive. Noise in the engine; 1) How long ago were the valves checked ( in kilometres, not years )? If this was done, was it done properly ? Its a bit tricky these valves when you do this for the first time. Take the book. 2) It could be a injector or two. Same question; How long ago. Technical lifespan on injectors is an absolute 120.000 KM. Practical lifespan is 150.000 KM at the max. Over 150.000 KM you are in the dangerzone. Doing the injectors its adviceable to replace the fuel return pipe or at least do a leakagetest to avoid dieselfuel mixing your engine oil. Happens more than people think. 3) Many kilometres on the engine, over 250.000 KM, check play on the valve rockers. They can wear badly on shaft and rocker. 4) Dirty noisemakers are the heaterhoses running at the back of the engine near the valvecover. If these hit the valvecover they trans- port the under valvecover noise inside your car making you wonder if the valve's were done oke. 5) Some 24 valve 80 series are real noisemakers inside, could be worse than 12 valve 1HD-T's. Check isolation specially around gearlevers and firewall etc. Hope this helps but do not forget the bearingshells, Maarten Verschure From: "Mike Adams" To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Date sent: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:48:35 +0100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Hi Maarten Thanks very much for your detailed advise. The LC has just over 120K miles ie about 180km on the clock and I have only done about 6000 of them. I didn't get any history with the LC but I changed the Clutch about 300 miles ago and it was on the rivets.I agree with you that it is quite a noisy engine in some senses. I much prefer the older 2H and B series engines! I will take the pan off and have a look and change the bearings any followed by a look at the injectors. The ticking seems to becoming from the top of the engine - bottom seems quiet so I may be in luck. I will also check the oil pressure with a gauge it seems on the lowish side on the dash. I aslo think that with an engine of this size it should be possible to get at least 200,000 miles without a major overhaul. I am sure I have had this from the 2H without much problem with proper servicing. Many Thanks for your help - I will report what I find Regards Mike Adams To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: ianp@f2s.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:37:51 +0100 Subject: RE: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Quoting Mike Adams : > I will also check the oil > pressure with a gauge it seems on the lowish side on the dash. I'm interested in this too. My 1HD-T has only 41,000 miles and the pressure looks low on the dash. When hot at tickover it is at only about 1/8 to 1/4 of the range. At 2000 rpm it is at about 40% of the range. It only ever gets to halfway when cold. Does this matter or is it just acceptable guage errors, engine tolerances etc. The engine seems quiet, well quiet for a diesel at least. Ian. To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Christopher Bell Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:55:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > > I will also check the oil > > pressure with a gauge it seems on the lowish side on the dash. > > I'm interested in this too. My 1HD-T has only 41,000 miles and the pressure > looks low on the dash. When hot at tickover it is at only about 1/8 to 1/4 of > the range. At 2000 rpm it is at about 40% of the range. It only ever gets to > halfway when cold. > > Does this matter or is it just acceptable guage errors, engine tolerances etc. > The engine seems quiet, well quiet for a diesel at least. My 1HD-FT (93k miles) reaches nearly 2/3rds on the gauge when cold with fresh oil, but once warm tends to settle on or just above the 1/3rd mark at 2000rpm, and about 1/8th at idle. When I've been towing a fair way and the revs drop down to idle the pressure reads near enough zero! I run it on 10w-40. This is within the normal range quoted in the handbook, and I've given up worrying about it. And regarding a thread about 10 days ago on "how long to heat soak a turbo before switching off" - I use the oil pressure rather than the temperature gauge: the nearer it is to zero at idle the longer delay I leave. Also I find the typical oil pressure drops slowly over time as the oil ages, and is quite a good indicator that an oil change is due. All good scientific stuff! (And I've been listening for ticking noises - as far as I can tell none, just the normal diesel loud rattles when cold and somewhat quieter ones when warm.) Christopher Bell Devon, UK 1996 1HD-FT To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:04:37 -0000 Subject: Re: [80] Big end bearing pic posted / more BE chat Reply-To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Christopher Bell wrote: >>>>>>> > And regarding a thread about 10 days ago on "how long to heat soak > a turbo before switching off" - I use the oil pressure rather than > the temperature gauge: the nearer it is to zero at idle the longer > delay I leave. I use my EGT gauge. After a workout and the temps are elevated, I idle the engine until the gauge comes back down around 400=B0 F. This is post-turbo temp. My oil press gauge reads approx 2/3 when cold at 2200rpm, when hot it reads approx 1/2 or a shade less than 1/2, same rpm. At hot idle, about 1/3 or sometimes a shade less than 1/3. ACL bearings with approx 5000miles on them, stock sized crank. When I did the bearings I plastigauged them, oil clearance was in the middle of the spec range, with a slight lean towards tight. 1HD-T engine. AMSOIL 15-40 diesel oil. Dana To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "David Gunn" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:24:15 +1000 Subject: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com I was just talking to a friend of mine who owns a 1992 Factory Turbo Diesel Automatic with 167,000ks on the clock and we were discussing the recent talk of big end bearings failing at k's around the 200,000 mark. Someone on one of the responses mentioned a $400.00 fix of replacing the bearings and I was wondering where this was and was the quote accurate or perhaps a bit dated? Is it a matter of dropping sump and replacing bearings as I thought you would need to remove crank as well which would be fairly time consuming and cost more than a few hundred in labour. Any info would be appreciated on how to avoid, what's involved in the fix and roughly how much people have paid as he is a little nervous about the potential cost of a buggered engine. Thanks Dave 1995 DX Dsl Melbourne. To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Craig Huxley" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:31:31 +1000 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com | -----Original Message----- | From: David Gunn [mailto:david.gunn@genmills.com] | Sent: Tuesday, 1 June 2004 4:24 PM | | I was just talking to a friend of mine who owns a 1992 Factory Turbo | Diesel Automatic with 167,000ks on the clock and we were discussing the | recent talk of big end bearings failing at k's around the 200,000 mark. | Someone on one of the responses mentioned a $400.00 fix of replacing the | bearings and I was wondering where this was and was the quote accurate | or perhaps a bit dated? | | | | Is it a matter of dropping sump and replacing bearings as I thought you | would need to remove crank as well which would be fairly time consuming | and cost more than a few hundred in labour. | | Any info would be appreciated on how to avoid, what's involved in the | fix and roughly how much people have paid as he is a little nervous | about the potential cost of a buggered engine. | | Thanks | | Dave | 1995 DX Dsl | Melbourne. Circa $400 is pretty accurate from a reputable mechanic. Use ICL bearing shells from Repco ($60) and genuine FIPG and really all it is the time to drop the oil, the sump and undo the rod bolts and slot in the new ones. The problem is big end (conrod to crank) bearings not main bearings (crank to block). In Bris Rocklea Diesel have a pretty good reputation on this job. Cheers Craig To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Andersen Hans" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:37:15 +1000 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Can recommend Rocklea diesel for the job. They did mine in March 02 and charged $431.16 (this included fip gasket, oil and filter) Parts were $123.86 (bearings and con rod bolts) No affiliations yada yada Regards Hans Andersen '92 1HD T Brisbane Queensland To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 09:07:20 -0000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com "Andersen Hans" wrote: > Can recommend Rocklea diesel for the job. They did mine in March > 02 and charged $431.16 (this included fip gasket, oil and filter) > Parts were $123.86 (bearings and con rod bolts) > > No affiliations yada yada > > Regards I wonder how critical it is to replace the conrod bolts if this is the first time the sump has been off the motor? I re-used mine, hope that is OK. To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 11:30:30 +0200 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: danamotors [mailto:fj40dana@hotmail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 1 juni 2004 11:07 > I wonder how critical it is to replace the conrod bolts if this is > the first time the sump has been off the motor? > > I re-used mine, hope that is OK. > We always do replace the bolts. For the few dollars involved and the risk you run my advice is to replace these bolts. To be straight forward; I never saw one break but I know of people that had these overtightend.( I hope I wrote that correctly ). Besides that its good engine rebuilding practice to do so. Best regards, Maarten To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Andersen Hans" Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:00:57 +1000 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: danamotors [mailto:fj40dana@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 1 June 2004 7:07 PM > I wonder how critical it is to replace the conrod bolts if this is > the first time the sump has been off the motor? > > I re-used mine, hope that is OK. My thoughts are that for $80 worth of bolts it wasn't worth the risk of not replacing them. Regards Hans A To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "bomboy_80" Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 02:10:43 -0000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Is this only a problem with 1HD-T's? I've got a 1HZ - its done 230,000km's (I've had it since 180,000), serviced every 5000km's and I've never had it recommended. Richard To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "David Gunn" Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 12:24:26 +1000 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: bomboy_80 [mailto:bomboy@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2004 12:11 PM > Is this only a problem with 1HD-T's? > > I've got a 1HZ - its done 230,000km's (I've had it since 180,000), > serviced every 5000km's and I've never had it recommended. > > Richard As far as I know it is only on the 1HDT's and even then not all of them. My understanding is that there was a bad batch of bearings used on the turbo motors but the 1HZ was not affected by this. To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "ds21bvh" Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 03:36:38 -0000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "David Gunn" wrote: > As far as I know it is only on the 1HDT's and even then not all of them. > My understanding is that there was a bad batch of bearings used on the > turbo motors but the 1HZ was not affected by this. David, My understanding is that it was not so much a 'bad' set of bearings - probably a better descriptive term may be 'unsuitable'....:) Some 1HZ turbos do show evidence of this problem also if my recollection is right. Normally aspirated engines don't seem to have a problem - most likely due to their lower big end bearing loads. Cheers, Mark.... 96 HDJ80 GXL To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 09:23:25 +0200 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: bomboy_80 [mailto:bomboy@optusnet.com.au] Verzonden: woensdag 2 juni 2004 4:11 > Is this only a problem with 1HD-T's? > > I've got a 1HZ - its done 230,000km's (I've had it since 180,000), > serviced every 5000km's and I've never had it recommended. > > Richard Hi Richard, We saw this also on 1HZ engines but at waaaay higher milage / kilometres. Untill today, talking of this year, we heard of 2 customers killing their cranks with this. My advice; Its a valuable thing that cruiser so if you can protect your investment by investing 6 bearingsets, 10 litres of oil, oilfilter and 4 hours of labor, I should say go for it. Best regards, Maarten Verschure To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "mark williams" Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 12:44:41 +1000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: ds21bvh Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 1:36 PM > David, > > My understanding is that it was not so much a 'bad' set of bearings - > probably a better descriptive term may be 'unsuitable'....:) > > Some 1HZ turbos do show evidence of this problem also if my > recollection is right. Normally aspirated engines don't seem to have > a problem - most likely due to their lower big end bearing loads. > > Cheers, > > Mark.... > 96 HDJ80 GXL Hi guys and girls, i'm a new member after just recently purchasing a 1HDT. the bearing issue is evident on all 1HDT from early 90 thru to early 93 and the aluminium bearing coating on the shell in direct contact with the crank shits itself literally and spreads this aluminium coating throughout the motor affecting cam bearings and oil galleries etc. Once the coating is lost the crank can pick the bearing up and spin it on the journal, the modes of failure are many at this point. The bearings were peculiar to the 1HDT. By the way be careful with crankshaft repairs as these are supposed to be not machineable!!!!!! see you later mark To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: All American Imports Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:38:42 +0200 Subject: RE: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: mark williams [mailto:markandclair@optusnet.com.au] Verzonden: donderdag 3 juni 2004 4:45 > Hi guys and girls, i'm a new member after just recently purchasing a > 1HDT. the bearing issue is evident on all 1HDT from early 90 thru to > early 93 and the aluminium bearing coating on the shell in direct > contact with the crank shits itself literally and spreads this aluminium > coating throughout the motor affecting cam bearings and oil galleries > etc. Once the coating is lost the crank can pick the bearing up and spin > it on the journal, the modes of failure are many at this point. > > The bearings were peculiar to the 1HDT. By the way be careful with > crankshaft repairs as these are supposed to be not machineable!!!!!! > > see you later > > mark > Hello, im sorry to correct this, youngest engine we had conrod bearingproblems with was 2002 1HD-FTE. Last week we also had a 1997 1HD-FT with 260.000km that needed a new set. My advice; Protect your investment and do not hope but be sure and check. Best regards, Maarten To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "ds21bvh" Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:45:06 -0000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] 1HD-T Bearing Failures. Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "mark williams" wrote: > The bearings were peculiar to the 1HDT. By the way be careful with crankshaft repairs as these are supposed to be not machineable!!!!!! > > > see you later > > mark Hi Mark, I always thought they were the same bearings in both the 1HZ and 1HD- T... and they were changed for the 1HD-FT....? Cheers, Mark... 96 HDJ80 GXL To: From: "James Yatras" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:01:59 +1000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Gday Guys, And now for my next trick - Big End Bearing Self Install...... A couple of questions. I'm keen to use ACL big end bearings (BEBs)over the standard Toyota BEBs. Toyota have a number of sizes, do ACL have the same size range ? How hard to fit yourself - any tips / tricks ? Are new rod bolts a must or can you reuse the existing ? Any special tools etc I'm reasonably talented with a spanner and have a Toyota Engine manual. Cheers James Y 1HDT - HDJ80 To: From: "Stuart McMurtrie" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:30:23 +1000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Yatras" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:01 PM > Gday Guys, > > And now for my next trick - Big End Bearing Self Install...... > > A couple of questions. > > I'm keen to use ACL big end bearings (BEBs)over the standard Toyota BEBs. > > Toyota have a number of sizes, do ACL have the same size range ? > > How hard to fit yourself - any tips / tricks ? > > Are new rod bolts a must or can you reuse the existing ? > > Any special tools etc > > > I'm reasonably talented with a spanner and have a Toyota Engine manual. > > > Cheers > > James Y > 1HDT - HDJ80 James Sorry, I don't know about differing sizes of shells. Getting the sump off will most likely be quite difficult - I used a putty knike to cut the silicone sealant before prising the sump off. In car this may also be difficult - you may have to remove a steering arm. I used a rotary wire brush on a drill to clean the silicone sealant off the mating edges for the sump to block joint. Get a tube of the Toyota genuine RTV sealant. Replacement of the bolts is a definite MUST. They actually stretch when torqued. You will need 12 point sockets for these bolts, not single hex. Use the old bolts when using the plastiguage strips to check clearances and runout, but then use the new bolts for the final "torque plus turn" regards Stuart McMurtrie Brisbane To: From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:20:46 +1100 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: James Yatras [mailto:jyatras@bigpond.net.au] Gday Guys, And now for my next trick - Big End Bearing Self Install...... A couple of questions. I'm keen to use ACL big end bearings (BEBs)over the standard Toyota BEBs. Toyota have a number of sizes, do ACL have the same size range ? How hard to fit yourself - any tips / tricks ? Are new rod bolts a must or can you reuse the existing ? Any special tools etc I'm reasonably talented with a spanner and have a Toyota Engine manual. Cheers James Y 1HDT - HDJ80 G'day James, The BEB's are a nice little job, the hardest part is removing the sump and cleaning off the FIPG. As Stuart said, I too used what we used to call a boot knife, and used the hammer to knock it around the sumps perimeter. The Toyota bearings come in 5 different "standard" sizes, whereas the ACL only have the "one size fits all" standard size. On both occasions I've done the job I've never replaced the rod bolts - I think the FSM just says to replace if they don't reach the specified torque figure. No special tools required, just much laying on your back. If possible leave the vehicle parked for a day before removing the sump as it saves all the little drips of engine oil off the internal bits dropping onto you. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:25:07 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com James, I used the ACL bearings when I did this. They come only in one size, and the plastiguage indicated the clearance was right in the middle of the upper and lower extremes of the specification, so I'm satisifed that's OK. My oil pressure is just fine.=20 As Stuart indicated, removing the sump is a royal PITA. I devised a copy of the SST. I welded the end of a 3" wide putty knife blade to a piece of 1/2" solid square stock, and then welded a handle to the stock. This roughly approximates the SST. This tool will allow you to insert the edge of the putty knife blade into the silicone, then using a hammer and drift, you can pound the tool around the circumference of the pan and break loose the seal. This can be done without removing any components of the vehicle. As Stuart said, I also used a wire wheel to clean up the oil sump, but I didn't use that on the block. I simply scraped with a clean razor blade, and that did the trick. When you re-install the sump, get everything very clean before you lay down the new silicone. I used mineral spirits followed with acetone. You want the metal "squeaky clean" so the silicone adheres properly. No leaks so far. I asked several machinists about re-using the rod bolts, and they all said it was OK to use them. This was the first time the oil pan had been off (original Toyota factory grey sealant) so I felt OK using them. If I do the bearings again on this engine, I'll replace them. BTW, it is important to torque the bolts "correctly" in order to get the correct oil clearance measurement using plastiguage. In other words, you must torque to 27 ft/lbs, then tighten another 90=B0. This is critical in order to draw the big end into a perfect circle. Just tightening to 27 ft/lbs will result in an erroneous plastiguage reading. Dana To: From: "the pallots" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:10:02 +1100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: James Yatras To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:01 PM Subject: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Gday Guys, And now for my next trick - Big End Bearing Self Install...... A couple of questions. I'm keen to use ACL big end bearings (BEBs)over the standard Toyota BEBs. Toyota have a number of sizes, do ACL have the same size range ? How hard to fit yourself - any tips / tricks ? Are new rod bolts a must or can you reuse the existing ? Any special tools etc I'm reasonably talented with a spanner and have a Toyota Engine manual. Cheers James Y 1HDT - HDJ80 Hi James Why are you replacing the big end bearings? If there is a low oil pressure issue then the mains need to be done as well. Just wondering. cheers dazza To: From: "George Couyant" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:25:28 +1100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "the pallots" > Hi James > > Why are you replacing the big end bearings? Hi Dazza, The golden greek drives a 1HD-T powered 80 Series - which requires inspection of the big end bearings every now and then. Cheers gc '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz To: From: "Craig Huxley" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:01:41 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com | -----Original Message----- | From: George Couyant [mailto:gcouyant@bigpond.com] | Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 1:25 PM | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "the pallots" | | > Hi James | > | > Why are you replacing the big end bearings? | | Hi Dazza, | | The golden greek drives a 1HD-T powered 80 Series - which | requires inspection of the big end bearings every now and then. | | Cheers | gc | | '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz LMAO. The Golden Geek......a new name for the lad. I can't wait for the return. Cheers Craig To: From: "James Yatras" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:39:10 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: the pallots [mailto:thepallots@primusonline.com.au] Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 1:10 PM > Hi James > > Why are you replacing the big end bearings? > > If there is a low oil pressure issue then the mains need to be done as well. > > Just wondering. > > cheers > > dazza Firstly, Thanks to Stuart, Greg, George, Dana, Darren (and smart ass Craig) for the comments on the Big Ends and CT26 drop in replacement. So, there is nothing wrong with the motor (pushing over 400k kms), however with the 1HDT Big End Bearing issue I'm doing an inspection / replacement every 100k km. This time I'm looking to do it myself. The last replacement was done by Toyota with their "new" bearing shells 100k km ago. Prior to that the original shells had pits 80 - 90% of the width of the big end bearing so failure was not far... I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Cheers and thanks again. James Y. Brisbane 1HDT with the lot..... To: From: "James Yatras" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:40:07 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Craig Huxley [mailto:hdj80@netspace.net.au] Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 3:02 PM > LMAO. The Golden Geek......a new name for the lad. I can't wait for > the return. > > Cheers > > Craig What are you talking about - I've told you over and over - Greek God not Golden Greek !!!!! Cheers James ! To: From: "Norm Needham" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:44:22 +1100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "James Yatras" > > Gday Guys, > > And now for my next trick - Big End Bearing Self Install...... > > A couple of questions. > > I'm keen to use ACL big end bearings (BEBs)over the standard Toyota BEBs. > > Toyota have a number of sizes, do ACL have the same size range ? No. One size fits all. The differences in the Toyota sizes are miniscule. It's just that selective assembly is easy at the time of building at the factory. Of the many (possibly hundreds) my shop did a few years ago, none showed an out of tolerance using plastigauge. I 'spose that says something for Toyota's quality of crank machining. ;-) > How hard to fit yourself - any tips / tricks ? Not difficult. One tip: a gentle heating of the area under the sump/block mating surface will make sump removal easier. > Are new rod bolts a must or can you reuse the existing ? Re-use existing. > Any special tools etc No. > I'm reasonably talented with a spanner and have a Toyota Engine manual. Then you will have no hassles. Cheers Norm Needham Tea Gardens - East Coast Australia HDJ79 To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Peter Ridley" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:56:14 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com > The golden greek drives a 1HD-T powered 80 Series - which requires > inspection of the big end bearings every now and then. > > Cheers > gc How often is every now and then GC? Pete. R. To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Peter Ridley" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:18:37 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com What's the cost in parts to do this job yourself? Pete. R. To: From: "James Yatras" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:39:52 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Peter Ridley [mailto:maverick_sr71@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 23 January 2005 7:19 PM > What's the cost in parts to do this job yourself? > > Pete. R. I'll let you know cost for D.I.Y when done. Current interval I'm replacing at is 100k. Cheers James To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Paul Roberts" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:54:57 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "James Yatras" wrote: > I'll let you know cost for D.I.Y when done. > > Current interval I'm replacing at is 100k. > > Cheers > > James > Hi James - is there much involved in this job? I know yhat it is done by dropping the sump and that the bolts should also be replaced - but is it a staged job where the bearings have to be removed, the crank measured and then new shells ordered? I am just pondering how to go about it and juggling the one car for parts..... Thanks Paul 1HDj80 with 177K on the clock with little history on the previous owners oil grade... To: From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:15:39 +1100 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Paul Roberts [mailto:psroberts@optusnet.com.au] Hi James - is there much involved in this job? Paul Paul, Could I suggest that you read the posts on the subject that were made over the course of the weekend? James asked much the same question and got several responses. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. To: From: "Stuart McMurtrie" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:21:08 +1000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Roberts" To: > --- In lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "James Yatras" > wrote: >> I'll let you know cost for D.I.Y when done. >> >> Current interval I'm replacing at is 100k. >> >> Cheers >> >> James >> > > > Hi James - is there much involved in this job? I know yhat it is > done by dropping the sump and that the bolts should also be > replaced - but is it a staged job where the bearings have to be > removed, the crank measured and then new shells ordered? > > I am just pondering how to go about it and juggling the one car for > parts..... > > Thanks > > Paul > 1HDj80 with 177K on the clock with little history on the previous > owners oil grade... Paul Not that I want to stomp, but as far as I know there is no issue with the 1HD-FT big end bearings - others with a better memory may care to either refute or support that. cheers Stuart McMurtrie Brisbane To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:27:35 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart McMurtrie" wrote: > Paul > > Not that I want to stomp, but as far as I know there is no issue with the > 1HD-FT big end bearings - others with a better memory may care to either > refute or support that. > > cheers > > Stuart McMurtrie > Maarten has said that he's seen several 1HD-FT motors with eroded B-E bearings. To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Paul Roberts" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:52:18 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com > Paul, > > Could I suggest that you read the posts on the subject that were made over > the course of the weekend? > > James asked much the same question and got several responses. > > Regards, > > Greg Goulden um - sorry all missed the start of the thread - where did I leave that seeing eye dog..... Paul To: From: "Norm Needham" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:20:39 +1100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "James Yatras" > > So, there is nothing wrong with the motor (pushing over 400k kms), however > with the 1HDT Big End Bearing issue I'm doing an inspection / replacement > every 100k km. This time I'm looking to do it myself. > > The last replacement was done by Toyota with their "new" bearing shells 100k > km ago. Just thinkin' out loud James (or may I call you "Goldie")? Your first post didn't mention that you were doing the bearings for the second time. On the matter of replacing the rod bolts; I'm wondering if Toyota replaced them 100k km ago? If so, re-use them. If not, it might be worth the 100 odd dollars in peace of mind for a new set. I'm not sure that they will really need replacing, but having been twisted up a couple of times might be a bit worrying. BTW; to plastigauge, you only need to do them up to the initial torque specification. Cheers Norm Needham Tea Gardens - East Coast Australia HDJ79 To: From: "Leigh Staunton" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:04:37 +1000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Needham" To: > From: "James Yatras" > > > > So, there is nothing wrong with the motor (pushing over 400k kms), > however > > with the 1HDT Big End Bearing issue I'm doing an inspection / > replacement > > every 100k km. This time I'm looking to do it myself. > > > > The last replacement was done by Toyota with their "new" bearing > shells 100k > > km ago. > > Just thinkin' out loud James (or may I call you "Goldie")? > Your first post didn't mention that you were doing the bearings for the > second time. > On the matter of replacing the rod bolts; I'm wondering if Toyota > replaced them 100k km ago? > If so, re-use them. > If not, it might be worth the 100 odd dollars in peace of mind for a new > set. I'm not sure that they will really need replacing, but having been > twisted up a couple of times might be a bit worrying. > BTW; to plastigauge, you only need to do them up to the initial torque > specification. > > Cheers > Norm Needham > Tea Gardens - East Coast Australia > HDJ79 I believe there is a specification to the length of the rod bolt - if it has stretched then replace. Cheers, Leigh Staunton. To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:28:01 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Installing Big End Bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Needham" wrote: > BTW; to plastigauge, you only need to do them up to the initial torque > specification. > > Cheers > Norm Needham > Tea Gardens - East Coast Australia > HDJ79 Hi Norm. when I did my BE bearings, I found this not to be the case. I simply torqued the bolts to spec, 27 ft/lb, and read the plastigauge. In all of the bearings, it was BARELY in spec, and I was not particularly pleased! then on the 5th one in, I decided to go the extra 90�, and the spec fell right into the middle of the range. Apparently, that extra quarter-turn draws the BE of the rod into a better circle, and the plastigauge reading changed quite a bit when I did that. I confirmed on a couple of the others just to make sure. Dana To: From: "stumaree" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:39:18 +1100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Re: 4.8L stroker 1HD-T Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com > I *think* there are 6 sizes for the 1HD-T bearings....yet the ACL > aftermarket replacement shell (copper/lead, instead of factory > alu/tin!) is said to be available in only one size.... > Bye, > > Willem-Jan Markerink Hi Willem-Jan, ACL do make different sizes in the big end bearings I changed mine and found when I pulled it down it had .75 over size shells in it the crank had been ground (to its limit) and I replaced them with ACL bearings, AFAIK they make .25, .50 and .75 Stuart Melbourne OZ ' 92 HDJ80R 1HD-T GXL roof rack, cruise control, cargo barrier, draw system, Snorkel poly airs, 2nd battery with Piranha management system, UHF CB, GPS and Oziexplorer etc To: From: "Norm Needham" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:07:13 +1100 Subject: [lcool_aus] bearing sizes (was 4.8L stroker 1HD-T) Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "stumaree" > Hi Willem-Jan, > ACL do make different sizes in the big end bearings I changed mine and found > when I pulled it down it had .75 over size shells in it the crank had been > ground (to its limit) and I replaced them with ACL bearings, AFAIK they make > .25, .50 and .75 > Stuart, I think WJ means that there are 6 sizes of OE bearings for selective fitting to the standard size crank; and that ACL make only one standard size. He is of course right; must be the clogs that make him misunderstood. Cheers Norm Needham Tea Gardens - East Coast Australia HDJ79 To: From: "stumaree" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:24:46 +1100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] bearing sizes (was 4.8L stroker 1HD-T) Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com > Stuart, > I think WJ means that there are 6 sizes of OE bearings for selective > fitting to the standard size crank; and that ACL make only one standard > size. > He is of course right; must be the clogs that make him misunderstood. > > Cheers > Norm Needham > Tea Gardens - East Coast Australia > HDJ79 Thanks Norm for pointing that out I had misunderstood WJs' post tooooooooo many #6s Stuart Melbourne OZ ' 92 HDJ80R 1HD-T GXL roof rack, cruise control, cargo barrier, draw system, Snorkel poly airs, 2nd battery with Piranha management system, UHF CB, GPS etc From: "Dan & Maxine Loubier" To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] 13B-T Won't shut off./imports/importers Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:41:10 -0700 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Hello Wayne, Hello Stephen, Hello everyone in diesel land, Please allow me to come out of lurk mode and butt in here since I feel there is some missing info here...... and since Wayne's email to the DTLC list made me think of it...... Wayne wrote: << also if there was a common flaw with these vehicles then I would have it mentioned on my site.>> REALLY??? Then perhaps you should include the following info on your website since you have 3 HDJ81 for sale to make sure your future customers have the "whole story"...... http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend.htm Or is Crushersrule replacing the bearings as soon as the trucks land? Have you contacted Toyota Canada on this? Is Toyota Canada going to honor the warranty? Wayne wrote: <> A few of the importers are bringing in HDJ81 but nobody has made mention of the engine bearing problems..... By including the above info on your site Wayne, you will be the "first" Canadian importer that I am aware of to come clean on this..... and that would go a long way to preserving your reputation as one of the good importers. Wayne wrote: << also feel free to send me a note if you find my site failing in one way or another. it is the only way I can better the site is by positive or negative feed back. >> I feel your testimonials would carry a lot more weight if you included the names and contact info of the authors... (providing the authors agree to have their names published of course...) this way if someone needs more info, they can get it from the "horse's mouth" themselves. Word of mouth is still one of the best advertising any business can get, and it is still free...... That was "my" $0.02 worth towards positive criticism..;-) Now back to lurk mode.... Dan Loubier loubier@telusplanet.net Peace River, Alberta, Canada Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:09:04 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 13B-T Won't shut off./imports/importers To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan & Maxine Loubier" Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:41 PM > Hello Wayne, > Hello Stephen, > Hello everyone in diesel land, > > Please allow me to come out of lurk mode and butt in here since I feel > there > is some missing info here...... and since Wayne's email to the DTLC list > made me think of it...... > > Wayne wrote: << > also if there was a common flaw with these vehicles then I would > have it mentioned on my site.>> > > REALLY??? > Then perhaps you should include the following info on your website since > you > have 3 HDJ81 for sale to make sure your future customers have the "whole > story"...... > > http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html > > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend.htm > > Or is Crushersrule replacing the bearings as soon as the trucks land? > Have you contacted Toyota Canada on this? > Is Toyota Canada going to honor the warranty? > > Wayne wrote: < attempted > to make a > future buyer aware of what they are purchasing.>> > > A few of the importers are bringing in HDJ81 but nobody has made mention > of > the engine bearing problems..... > By including the above info on your site Wayne, you will be the "first" > Canadian importer that I am aware of to come clean on this..... and that > would go a long way to preserving your reputation as one of the good > importers. > > Wayne wrote: << also feel free to send me a > note if you find my site failing in one way or another. it is the only way > I > can better the site is by positive or negative feed back. >> > > I feel your testimonials would carry a lot more weight if you included the > names and contact info of the authors... (providing the authors agree to > have their names published of course...) this way if someone needs more > info, they can get it from the "horse's mouth" themselves. > Word of mouth is still one of the best advertising any business can get, > and > it is still free...... > > That was "my" $0.02 worth towards positive criticism..;-) > Now back to lurk mode.... Dan, since no one has asked me NOT to post their names I can go back and see if I can dig the names up. I was trying to be respectful to the customers but I can see your point... or I can mention on the site that the names can be requested and that way I can contact the testimonial suppliers and make sure they wish to have that info released. thanks as for the big end bearings I came across a website that gives the proper oil found in North America that matches the specs for the Japanese specifications.for these bearings so that the big end bearings do not need changing out. I did not post it since the other importers could gather this information with out the long search that I did. even though in today's society everyone feels there is a freedom of information, I feel that if the other importers want to get this information then let them do a search for it. those that buy a HDJ81 from us will get this info free of charge of course and if they wish to release this info they can do so at their discretion. till then this is for me to know. if you know then you can volunteer the info after which I will post it to the site. if I thought for even a second that the big end bearings will be a problem after using this oil then I would be changing them out. IF the big end bearings did go and the oil tests to have no contaminates or other brands of oil in it then the big end bearing and crank would be replaced by us. you have brought up a good point and thank you for doing so. cheers Wayne Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:45:23 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Thomas Bentzen" Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 13B-T Won't shut off./imports/importers To: dtlc@helios.net --- wayne@crushersrule.com wrote: > Dan, > since no one has asked me NOT to post their names I can go back and see > if I > can dig the names up. I was trying to be respectful to the customers but > I > can see your point... or I can mention on the site that the names can be > > requested and that way I can contact the testimonial suppliers and make > sure > they wish to have that info released. > thanks > as for the big end bearings I came across a website that gives the > proper > oil found in North America that matches the specs for the Japanese > specifications.for these bearings so that the big end bearings do not > need > changing out. I did not post it since the other importers could gather > this > information with out the long search that I did. even though in today's > society everyone feels there is a freedom of information, I feel that if > the > other importers want to get this information then let them do a search > for > it. > those that buy a HDJ81 from us will get this info free of charge of > course > and if they wish to release this info they can do so at their > discretion. > till then this is for me to know. if you know then you can volunteer the > > info after which I will post it to the site. > if I thought for even a second that the big end bearings will be a > problem > after using this oil then I would be changing them out. IF the big end > bearings did go and the oil tests to have no contaminates or other > brands of > oil in it then the big end bearing and crank would be replaced by us. > you have brought up a good point and thank you for doing so. > cheers > Wayne Let me first say that I trust Wayne. That said when Rob Lassman at Radd Cruisers got the engine that I bought from G&S Cruiser parts he immediately replaced the bottom end barrings. Now this is a 1HZ and NOT a 1HD-T, but Rob wanted to be sure anyway. It's that kind of positive experience that keeps guys like me coming back to you Canadian Cruiser guys everytime! Rob, Wayne, Sheldon/Greg keep up the good work! Tom Bentzen http://www.fototime.com/inv/F6C5A23C38445DB From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:17:14 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net I've owned one of these trucks for about 2 1/2 years now, and the very first thing I did when I got it was yank off the oilpan and change out the bearings. I've become somewhat of an expert on this issue, I've read every damn thing I could about it, and I can tell you that the big-end bearing issue is not a big problem in Japan. The reason: the Japanese-spec oil is different from the OZ-spec and US-Spec and Euro-spec diesel oil. The Jap-spec oil will allow those bearings to run for a very long time. I think that you will find MOST of the bearings coming from the JDM engines are going to be "mostly" just fine. A few exceptions perhaps, but mostly OK. If you were bringing in trucks from OZ or other places, I'd say that changing out the bearings immediately is imperative. Now, since these are expensive motors to repair, I'd do it anyway, even with the JDM. The ACL bearings are available here in the USA through Hastings, which has a partnership with ACL of OZ. They are very inexpensive, they fit perfectly, and they will set your mind at ease. It's a simple job while the engine is out of the truck, and it's not too difficult while still in-frame. My engine had done about 250,000 miles (not kms) on Amsoil, which has the essential additives for this motor, just as the Japanese-spec oil does. the usual US or euro-spec oil does NOT have the essential additives, and that's why you see the big bearing problems in those areas. Without getting into a huge and very long discussion about why the oil makes such a difference, suffice it to say that the Jap, US, and Euro diesels are all built differently, they each require different additive packages to ensure the long-life they are designed to deliver. When I yanked off the pan and the bearings, only one had started down the road to failure. It was still about 100,000 miiles from becoming a major problem, but I'm glad I did it. Despite the mileage, I was impressed with their condition, and the cleanliness of the engine. I mic'd the crank journals, all were within new tolerance. Anyone who imports one of these engines to North America should be informed that the only oil that's readilly available here, that's going to meet the specs required for their engine, is Amsoil. I'm not an Amsoil dealer, and I don't care if you use it in your truck, but if you want the engine to last, use it. Dana From: morris@ontariointernet.com To: , "Wayne Smith" Subject: Re: [DTLC] 13B-T Won't shut off./imports/importers Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:28:20 -0500 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Hi, Wayne! Hi, everyone! Add my name to Wayne's list of testimonials. I'm #1 (November 27, 2003), BJ74. Never happier with a vehicle purchase! Thanks again, Mr. Smith. Dan Morrison, RMT '88 BJ74 '85 BJ60 "Lazarus" From: Evan Crawford Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:22:59 -0800 To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:17:14 +0000 > From: "Dana Adams" > > I've owned one of these trucks for about 2 1/2 years now, and the very first > thing I did when I got it was yank off the oilpan and change out the bearings. > > I've become somewhat of an expert on this issue, I've read every damn thing > I could about it, and I can tell you that the big-end bearing issue is not a > big problem in Japan. > > The reason: the Japanese-spec oil is different from the OZ-spec and > US-Spec and Euro-spec diesel oil. The Jap-spec oil will allow those > bearings to run for a very long time. I think that you will find MOST of > the bearings coming from the JDM engines are going to be "mostly" just fine. > A few exceptions perhaps, but mostly OK. > > If you were bringing in trucks from OZ or other places, I'd say that > changing out the bearings immediately is imperative. > > Now, since these are expensive motors to repair, I'd do it anyway, even with > the JDM. The ACL bearings are available here in the USA through Hastings, > which has a partnership with ACL of OZ. They are very inexpensive, they fit > perfectly, and they will set your mind at ease. It's a simple job while > the engine is out of the truck, and it's not too difficult while still in-frame. > > My engine had done about 250,000 miles (not kms) on Amsoil, which has the > essential additives for this motor, just as the Japanese-spec oil does. the > usual US or euro-spec oil does NOT have the essential additives, and that's > why you see the big bearing problems in those areas. > > Without getting into a huge and very long discussion about why the oil makes > such a difference, suffice it to say that the Jap, US, and Euro diesels are > all built differently, they each require different additive packages to > ensure the long-life they are designed to deliver. > > When I yanked off the pan and the bearings, only one had started down the > road to failure. It was still about 100,000 miiles from becoming a major > problem, but I'm glad I did it. Despite the mileage, I was impressed with > their condition, and the cleanliness of the engine. I mic'd the crank > journals, all were within new tolerance. > > Anyone who imports one of these engines to North America should be informed > that the only oil that's readilly available here, that's going to meet the > specs required for their engine, is Amsoil. > > I'm not an Amsoil dealer, and I don't care if you use it in your truck, but > if you want the engine to last, use it. > > Dana So, bringing up the old issue... I've been running Shell Rotella 15W45 (XLA, then multigrade once they changed the name), as I had heard it was a pretty good oil to use. Should I really be running Amsoil, or is it not as important on the older engines (stock 83 BJ42), i.e. is it just a problem with the metal choice on the bearings in later model diesels? (5000km intervals, oil and filter ever time.) Also crossed my mind with that comment about North American/Euro/Jap/Oz spec diesels all being different, since my cruiser originally came from Europe, or were the 3B's the same world over back then? Any general consensus? Thanks, Evan Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:38:06 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Crawford" Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:22 AM > So, bringing up the old issue... > I've been running Shell Rotella 15W45 (XLA, then multigrade once they > changed the name), as I had heard it was a pretty good oil to use. Should > I really be running Amsoil, or is it not as important on the older engines > (stock 83 BJ42), i.e. is it just a problem with the metal choice on the > bearings in later model diesels? (5000km intervals, oil and filter ever > time.) Also crossed my mind with that comment about North > American/Euro/Jap/Oz spec diesels all being different, since my cruiser > originally came from Europe, or were the 3B's the same world over back > then? > > Any general consensus? > > Thanks, > Evan the only concern i have heard of is the 1990 and newer high out put turbo diesels but i am going to be recomending the same oil for the LJ78 series with the 2LTE engines just to be safe... cheers Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:45:13 -0600 From: griemer1@sasktel.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings/3B bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Crawford" Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:22 AM > So, bringing up the old issue... > I've been running Shell Rotella 15W45 (XLA, then multigrade once they > changed the name), as I had heard it was a pretty good oil to use. Should > I really be running Amsoil, or is it not as important on the older engines > (stock 83 BJ42), i.e. is it just a problem with the metal choice on the > bearings in later model diesels? (5000km intervals, oil and filter ever > time.) Also crossed my mind with that comment about North > American/Euro/Jap/Oz spec diesels all being different, since my cruiser > originally came from Europe, or were the 3B's the same world over back > then? > > Any general consensus? > > Thanks, > Evan Evan: I have driven over 1.5Million Km in 3B powered Cruisers. Regular North American oils (usually Esso XD3) no problems, over 500,000 km on two of them. The mines have no trouble with the 1HZ and those engines are abused. This issue must be the 1HD-T bearings. Greg R Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:15:27 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings/3B bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:45 AM > Evan: > > I have driven over 1.5Million Km in 3B powered Cruisers. Regular North > American oils (usually Esso XD3) no problems, over 500,000 km on two of > them. The mines have no trouble with the 1HZ and those engines are > abused. This issue must be the 1HD-T bearings. > > Greg R i do beleive we are talking JDM engines that have the problems. the trucks for the mines are made for the NA non-JDM markets so would have looser tolerances... like you mentioned i beleive all the older engines did not have the same close tolerances, that being said from 1985 onward the 3B did have the funky cap and crank specs stamped on the cap and the crank in coded letters... so MAYBE the tolerances were getting better as the years went by... Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:38:10 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Thomas Bentzen" Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings/3B bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net --- wayne@crushersrule.com wrote: > i do beleive we are talking JDM engines that have the problems. the > trucks > for the mines are made for the NA non-JDM markets so would have looser > tolerances... > like you mentioned i beleive all the older engines did not have the same > > close tolerances, that being said from 1985 onward the 3B did have the > funky > cap and crank specs stamped on the cap and the crank in coded letters... > so > MAYBE the tolerances were getting better as the years went by... Did the 1HZ EVER experience this issue??? Tom B Tom Bentzen http://www.fototime.com/inv/F6C5A23C38445DB Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:05:51 -0700 From: pstraub@gmail.com Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. From the little bit I've read about this issue, the problem is isolated to 1990-1995 1HD-T engines. If I were ever to come into posession of one of these motors, either from Japan or otherwise, I would heed Dana's recommendation and change the bearings. With the aftermarket bearings, you no longer need to worry about the oil additives for these bearings. Peter Straub Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:12:32 -0800 From: "Rob Lassman" Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:05 PM > From the little bit I've read about this issue, the problem is > isolated to 1990-1995 1HD-T engines. > > If I were ever to come into posession of one of these motors, either > from Japan or otherwise, I would heed Dana's recommendation and change > the bearings. With the aftermarket bearings, you no longer need to > worry about the oil additives for these bearings. > > Peter Straub I have replacedon 2 set of the bearings and all but one showed signs of delamination or pitting. Not severe engough to do damage, did not make a mark on the crank journal. I think it was like Peter said, poor material. So to answer your question Tom, if you are hot rodding your 1HZ new bearings would be a good idea since your engine falls into the erra. Good thing we changed them out when we did the 1HD-T engine. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:17:11 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings/3B bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Thomas Bentzen" Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:38 PM > Did the 1HZ EVER experience this issue??? > > Tom B not to my knowledge... Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:20:02 -0700 From: wayne@crushersrule.com Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net X-Virus-Scanned: Scanned by a pack of attack kittens for Boswell Online B.V. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:05 PM > From the little bit I've read about this issue, the problem is > isolated to 1990-1995 1HD-T engines. > > If I were ever to come into posession of one of these motors, either > from Japan or otherwise, I would heed Dana's recommendation and change > the bearings. With the aftermarket bearings, you no longer need to > worry about the oil additives for these bearings. > > Peter Straub re-read his post. he said if the engine came from anywhere else other than Japan to change out the bearings... From: "Greg Goulden" To: Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings/3B bearings. Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:57:15 +1100 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of griemer1@sasktel.net > > Evan: > > I have driven over 1.5Million Km in 3B powered Cruisers. Regular North > American oils (usually Esso XD3) no problems, over 500,000 km on two of > them. The mines have no trouble with the 1HZ and those engines > are abused. > This issue must be the 1HD-T bearings. > > Greg R The b/e bearings are common between 1HZ and 1HD-T, as are many other parts. The bearings are also "coded" as Wayne mentioned, with Toyota having about 5 different "standard" size bearings when you add the codes on the conrod and crank. The problem is more evident on the 1HD-T as the direct injection has a very sharp power stroke when it fires, loading the bearing more than the softer burning 1HZ. There has been recorded examples of failing bearing material on highly stressed (turbo'ed) 1HZ's. http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/1hz_turbo_failures/1hz-failures.htm l The problem wasn't evident in JDM vehicles as it's believed the Jap spec oil and lack of high speed driving compared to other places on the planet like Aust. where we used US spec oil and can drive all day at highway speeds. Since Toyota changed the composition of the replacement bearings years ago, the problem isn't one anymore. That said I'm using a Jap spec oil to make sure, particularly when my 1HD-FT engine's making ~50% more grunt than Mr Toyota designed it with ;-) Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:08:11 -0700 From: pstraub@gmail.com Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:20:02 -0700, wayne@crushersrule.com wrote: > > re-read his post. he said if the engine came from anywhere else other than > Japan to change out the bearings... I said I would replace the bearings in a 1990-1995 1HDT regardless of where the engine came from. If it came from Japan, chances are that the bearings are good, but you don't know what kind of oil the PO used. Furthermore, I wouldn't want to be stuck with only ever using amsoil, and would therefore change the bearings for peace of mind. It's a 4 hour job for a skilled mechanic, and the bearings cost is AUD$62.06 from Geoff Walsh Engine Parts(I just bought a set in November for my 1HZ project - bearings for 1HZ and 1HD-T are the same). Peter Straub From: "Dana Adams" To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] 1HD-T big-end bearings. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:02:28 +0000 Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net >So, bringing up the old issue... >I've been running Shell Rotella 15W45 (XLA, then multigrade once they >changed the name), as I had heard it was a pretty good oil to use. Should >I really be running Amsoil, or is it not as important on the older engines >(stock 83 BJ42), i.e. is it just a problem with the metal choice on the >bearings in later model diesels? (5000km intervals, oil and filter ever >time.) Also crossed my mind with that comment about North >American/Euro/Jap/Oz spec diesels all being different, since my cruiser >originally came from Europe, or were the 3B's the same world over back >then? > >Any general consensus? > >Thanks, >Evan Evan, you really needn't worry about your bottom end bearings on the other Toyota diesels, only the direct-injected 1HD-T and (according to Maarten Verschure, who's seen a few go bad now) the 1HD-FT. However, since it's an easy and inexpensive job, I'd also change out the 1HZ bearings, just to be safe. I use Chevron Delo in my 3B. Dana To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: Mark VanDoorn Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:31:16 +1100 (EST) Subject: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Hi Guys, Just thought I'd share my story, Last October we brought a "92 turbo VX, did my research on this site and found that in "96 Toyota changed the big end bearings (sticker in RH side door pillar) at about 70,000 kms, last week at 170,000kms the engine devolped a loud ticking sound, I shut the engine off ASAP and after a tow to the mechanic, we are installing a new set of bearings (ACL), so dont just think about changing bearings every 100,000kms, JUST DO IT.. Cheers Mark "92 T/D VX Auto Full Factory Options (new bearings!!!!) To: From: "john byrne" Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:50:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Hi Mark You are one of the licky ones with this problem, that you caught it early enought. My big end bearing went on me about a few months after I bought the cruiser. I did'nt have a clue what was going on at all with the engine cause I had only had it a while and knew nothing about it The first I knew some thing was wrong was on my way home on a country road, the engine started to die slowly and with out any warning at all. I heard no clicking or clunking, just lost of power. The cruiser was put on the back of a tow truck, off the road for months, engine taken out and rebuilt by a specialist far away as Toyota could not do the work to the engine. The guy that did the bearing insisted on new radiator and hoses, new injectors, new valves, new rings etc seeing as how he had the engine open and would not do the bearings other wise. The cost in total was 6000 euro. Tell me the cost of your replacment. John C 92HDJ 80 1HD-T Ireland To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: Julian Voelcker Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:21:03 GMT Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Hi John, > The guy that did the bearing insisted on new radiator and hoses, new > injectors, new valves, new rings etc seeing as how he had the engine open > and would not do the bearings other wise. The cost in total was 6000 euro. > Tell me the cost of your replacment. Sorry to say this, but if the only problem was the big end bearings, they can be done with the engine in place. However, it sounds like you had a lot more problems than just the big end bearings going. When they go, they tend to lead to noise problems first as the pistons tap against the cylinder head and then as it gets worse you end up with more severe mechanical damage. -- Regards, Julian Voelcker Mobile: 07971 540362 Cirencester, United Kingdom 1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB To: From: "john byrne" Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:28:29 -0000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Julian Wrote > Sorry to say this, but if the only problem was the big end bearings, they > can be done with the engine in place. > > However, it sounds like you had a lot more problems than just the big end > bearings going. When they go, they tend to lead to noise problems first as > the pistons tap against the cylinder head and then as it gets worse you end > up with more severe mechanical damage. I agree with you 100% how about that. I think a number of things conspired against me at that time, 1 I was a new owner of this type of vehicle then and up to that time I had always driven cars. 2 I had never had a diesel before and so did'nt know the sound or pur of the engine and had nothing to compare it with. 3 When I bought the cruiser it had remoulds and they where noisy ones at that so when I replaced them with new tyres the cruiser sounded different anyway so I had no way of telling if as you say there would have been tell tale noises of the iment bearing problem. 4 The engine had to be fixed by a guy who is hours drive away from me and my toyota garage, and when I arranged for him to do the work, he said send it, or the engine down to him, so I presumed it was the engine he wanted so asked toyota to take it out and deliver it to him. 5 He told me that seen as how he had the engine apart it would be a very good idea to put these extra parts in because with 110,000 on the engine it was a good idea while he had it open. 6 He said he would only give a warentee on the work if I replaced the radiator with a new one and only by toyota, I supose his thinking on this was that the rad was old and to ensure proper cooling of the engine after all the work and expense it would be worth it, better safe than sorry. It was only after the problems that I had with the cruiser that I started to sorse information on all aspects of the cruiser through use of all the excellent forums. I know if I had have done this first it may have turned out different but hindsight is a wonderful thing, the problem is it comes after the event. I supose if it happened now, toutch wood I would hope I would be the wiser a little. I think that on the plus side I vertually have a new engine and all the seals are new aswell not only in the engine but between the engine and what it is connected to aswell. John C 92HDJ 80 1HD-T Ireland To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: Julian Voelcker Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:25:11 GMT Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com I suppose on the plus side you have pretty well a new engine now, so it should out last you ;-) -- Regards, Julian Voelcker Mobile: 07971 540362 Cirencester, United Kingdom 1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: Mark VanDoorn Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:04:50 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com john byrne wrote: > Hi Mark > > You are one of the licky ones with this problem, that you caught it early > enought. My big end bearing went on me about a few months after I bought the > cruiser. I did'nt have a clue what was going on at all with the engine cause > I had only had it a while and knew nothing about it > The first I knew some thing was wrong was on my way home on a country road, > the engine started to die slowly and with out any warning at all. I heard no > clicking or clunking, just lost of power. The cruiser was put on the back of > a tow truck, off the road for months, engine taken out and rebuilt by a > specialist far away as Toyota could not do the work to the engine. The guy > that did the bearing insisted on new radiator and hoses, new injectors, new > valves, new rings etc seeing as how he had the engine open and would not do > the bearings other wise. The cost in total was 6000 euro. Tell me the cost > of your replacment. Hi John, the bill will have to wait till next week, it never just rains here, it pours, after a closer inpection, a new crank is going in as well, seems it should of been replaced 10 years ago, whilst the engine is out we are going to have a good look around inside and see what else I can spend my hard earned on!!! Cheers Mark '92 T/D VX All the extras now in bits To: "'lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com'" From: "Richmond, Peter" Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:51:23 +1100 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] 1HD-T Big end bearings Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Mark VanDoorn [mailto:markvic66@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 16 March 2005 11:05 PM > Hi John, > the bill will have to wait till next week, it never just rains here, it > pours, after a closer inpection, a new crank is going in as well, seems it > should of been replaced 10 years ago, whilst the engine is out we are going > to have a good look around inside and see what else I can spend my hard > earned on!!! Mark, I am sorry to hear that you are up for a few big bucks, I am however wondering a couple of things here which you may or may not be able to answer. 1. Do you happen to know what oil was used in this 80 since the last rebuild? 2. Since you have pointed out that the crank should have been replaced 10 years ago. Couldn't that have caused the latest failure/s? KP 80,000km bearings 91 HDJ80 Canberra OZ To: From: "brett and barb" Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:18:13 +1000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Hello Guys, Just thought I'd post some info on some bad luck that a mate had recently with a 1hd-ft 95 gxl. After many reliable years in a faithful 1hz 75 series, my mate needed a bit more space so after some discussion and a drive in my 97 ihd-ft he decided this was the series to purchase. Not having much luck in QLD, he eventually sourced a one owner vehicle in central NSW for the right money. It was in very good nic and had very minimal off road use( if any at all). So, after deciding this was the one he returned home with it and drove it with no dramas, very happy with the truck. However, after a few months he noticed a drop in power so he decided that it was probably the injectors and then purchased some genuine toyota injector cleaner. This course of action didn't seem to help any and the situation worsened after two more days to the point that the car wouldn't start. So off to the mechanic who started looking for the basics first but no luck and the engine had to be stripped down. Major bad news!!- Turned out the problem was a badly scorched (and grooved) bore in one of the pots.The bottom bearings were flaked and both the turbo and injector pump were RS because of the metal that had gone thru them. He ended up purchasing a brand new motor thru Toyota for a large sum and then had to get the pump and turbo fixed as well. With discussions with his mechanic and toyota it seemed the most likely cause of this whole situation was extreme lack of servicing in the oil changes. The vehecle had just turned over 200k so it was well within the normal km usage for its age. He did notice when he did get it home and did an oil change that the oil was a bit thick and sludgy. I suppose this could could happen to any of us when purchasing a 2nd hand vehicle but he has had some extremly bad luck. Do you all think it was the extended services that caused this? Obviously there are problems with the big-ends in these trucks but this one is a series 3 1995 model? Any Ideas? Brett 1hd-ft 97 regularly serviced Brisbane To: From: "John Byrne" Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 16:27:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Hi Brett I bought my 80 series about 5 years ago now and like your friend I though I was getting a bargain. Yea right I was. Over here they are extremely hard to come by and any you can find seem to be rough. So I bought this cruiser which had been lieing up for (he said about one year). This was my first 4x4 and I knew nothing other than how to drive it. It looked fine and drove fine aswell. That was untill about three months after the day I bought it. Like your friends it started to lose power very quickly and then basically died to the extent it would not, could not drive up onto the back of a flat bed tow truck. Toyota put new injestors in and looked at other bits and pieces. When they striped the engine down there was bits of metal and the big ends had broke up. The injector pump went soon after that as did the starter and other bits including two birfields. My advice to anyone who is thinking of buying a 4x4 from someone or even a garage is. Ask a load of questions about servicing ,diffs, birfields, gear box, transfere case and any other bits you can think of. See what the answers are and the reaction of the seller to the questions and if not happy walk away quickly. I think if these bits are not serviced regularally forget it because it will cost a fortune (when), not if but when they go wrong. Get someone who knows about 4x4s to go with you even if you have to pay for this guy. This money could save you thousands and thousands. See if you can get some of the oil out of the engine, gearbox etc and get it analised. My bill came to =A36000, what a wake up call Never again would I go on looks and price on their own. John C 92HDJ 80 1HDT Ireland To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "danamotors" Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 05:25:55 -0000 Subject: [lcool_aus] Re: Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "brett and barb" wrote: > > Hello Guys, > > Just thought I'd post some info on some bad luck that a mate had recently > with a 1hd-ft 95 gxl. Maarten in Holland has mentioned that he's seen some problems on some of the 1HD-FT big-end bearings, so even though the multivalve is better than the previous 1HD-T engine, it's not immune to the problem. Personally, I think that anyone who owns any of these engines should buy some peace of mind and have the BE bearings checked/replaced, just as they are done on the 12-valve motors. Dana To: From: "Craig Huxley" Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:49:19 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com | -----Original Message----- | From: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brett and barb | Sent: Sunday, 9 October 2005 9:18 PM | | Hello Guys, | | Just thought I'd post some info on some bad luck that a mate had recently | with a 1hd-ft 95 gxl. After many reliable years in a faithful 1hz 75 series, | my mate needed a bit more space so after some discussion and a drive in my | 97 ihd-ft he decided this was the series to purchase. Not having much luck | in QLD, he eventually sourced a one owner vehicle in central NSW for the | right money. It was in very good nic and had very minimal off road use( if | any at all). So, after deciding this was the one he returned home with it | and drove it with no dramas, very happy with the truck. However, after a few | months he noticed a drop in power so he decided that it was probably the | injectors and then purchased some genuine toyota injector cleaner. | | This course of action didn't seem to help any and the situation worsened | after two more days to the point that the car wouldn't start. So off to the | mechanic who started looking for the basics first but no luck and the engine | had to be stripped down. Major bad news!!- Turned out the problem was a | badly scorched (and grooved) bore in one of the pots.The bottom bearings | were flaked and both the turbo and injector pump were RS because of the | metal that had gone thru them. He ended up purchasing a brand new motor thru | Toyota for a large sum and then had to get the pump and turbo fixed as well. | With discussions with his mechanic and toyota it seemed the most likely | cause of this whole situation was extreme lack of servicing in the oil | changes. The vehecle had just turned over 200k so it was well within the | normal km usage for its age. He did notice when he did get it home and did | an oil change that the oil was a bit thick and sludgy. I suppose this could | happen to any of us when purchasing a 2nd hand vehicle but he has had some | extremly bad luck. Do you all think it was the extended services that | caused this? Obviously there are problems with the big-ends in these trucks | but this one is a series 3 1995 model? Any Ideas? | | Brett | 1hd-ft 97 regularly serviced | Brisbane | | Ok I find this difficult to work out. The Injector pump is cactus and the turbo and the bigends. Now AFAIK the injector pump is lubricated only by diesel. The turbo and bearings could have been stuffed by lack of oil maintenance. Replacement was the right option as all other contacting areas will no doubt have been severely compromised - but I bet he is not happy at the moment. Perhaps no servicing was done which may indicate that the fuel filter was stuffed allowing large amounts of contaminates to scour the pump internals. If servicing is as bad as is indicated he may end up with extremely shortened life on other major components ie diffs and box and t/case. He may not but something he may wish to look out for. Personally I would be approaching the owner and having a nice little chat. Friendly at first and perhaps followed up by some legal advice. "The buyer beware" only goes so far. This particular vehicle wasn't white and from around Dubbo by any chance? Cheers Craig To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: Julian Voelcker Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:00:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Brett, Like John I would agree about checking and double checking the service history. Also try to baseline your vehicle as soon as you get it so change all the fluids, all the filters as well as strip down and repack the CVs and wheel bearings - when you do this you should be able to (a) get a better idea of the condition of the vehicle and (b) slow up any further deteriation of suspect parts. -- Regards, Julian Voelcker Cirencester, United Kingdom 1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift To: From: "Craig Huxley" Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:05:41 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com Brett I forgot to say it seem that your mate was pretty unwise to drive around on obviously old oil for so long as well. Best he get in and change all fluids including brake fluid immediately. Cheers Craig To: From: "brett and barb" Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:02:48 +1000 Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Huxley" Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 7:05 PM > Brett > > I forgot to say it seem that your mate was pretty unwise to drive around on > obviously old oil for so long as well. Best he get in and change all fluids > including brake fluid immediately. > Gday Craig, Yep- now after having this happen , all fluids have been changed. You can never be too sure these days-you would think when buying a $30k plus vehicle the owner would look after it, but as seen, not always the case. Externally, the cruiser was in VERY good nic--who would think??The car is a flaxen mica colour and I'm pretty sure it didn't come from Dubbo. What recourse can you take on a private sale with no warranty? I always thought if something like this happened it was Too Bad--So Sad so to speak. The biggest problem is that the vehicle is now worth well over the insured value, which if he ever has to make big claim he won't re-coup the dollars spent.Lets hope his luck has changed for the better. He has twin air lockers from his 75 series ute to go in next few weeks so he will be able to get an idea of what the diffs are like. Regards Brett 97 1hd-ft Brisbane To: From: "Craig Huxley" Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:22:49 +1000 Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Diesel Motors and regular servicing Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com | -----Original Message----- | From: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brett and barb | Sent: Monday, 10 October 2005 8:03 PM | | Gday Craig, | | Yep- now after having this happen , all fluids have been changed. You can | never be too sure these days-you would think when buying a $30k plus vehicle | the owner would look after it, but as seen, not always the case. Externally, | the cruiser was in VERY good nic--who would think??The car is a flaxen mica | colour and I'm pretty sure it didn't come from Dubbo. What recourse can you | take on a private sale with no warranty? I always thought if something like | this happened it was Too Bad--So Sad so to speak. The biggest problem is | that the vehicle is now worth well over the insured value, which if he ever | has to make big claim he won't re-coup the dollars spent.Lets hope his luck | has changed for the better. He has twin air lockers from his 75 series ute | to go in next few weeks so he will be able to get an idea of what the diffs | are like. Brett Glad to know it is not a white 95 from Dubbo. We had a look at one when Mark G was looking for one and it was suss as all heck as was the seller. Anyway the come back against the seller is if he knowingly concealed something. If perchance you could find out that it had been to a garage who advised that it was going to die, the owner would have an obligation to not conceal that info. Been a while since I read much on tort but the way liabilities extend is quite amazing. Cheers Craig

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What Toyota doesn't want you to know about the 1HD-T engine (HDJ-80 '90-95)

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