To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Colin Pond" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:36:51 -0800 Subject: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Hi Guys, Can anyone tell me what the difference is in the power steering on the Sahara (VX) from the GXL, manual mentions it is different and there is a solenoid or servo motor on the box but I don't know what the extra does. thanks, Colin Pond 80 series Sahara, TD, soon to have Intercooler To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:22:41 -0000 Subject: [80_aus] Re: sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Pond" wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is in the power steering on the > Sahara (VX) from the GXL, manual mentions it is different and there is a > solenoid or servo motor on the box but I don't know what the extra does. > > thanks, > > Colin Pond > 80 series Sahara, TD, soon to have Intercooler Colin, The VX or Sahara had what Toyota termed "PPS", or Progressive Power Steering. A control box under the dash collects vehicle speed data from a sender in the rear of the speedo, and uses it to control the solenoid on the steering box. Slower speeds are supposed to have a low steering wheel load, with assistance reduced as the vehicle speed increases to give better road feel. Well thats how it was supposed to work... Regards, Greg Goulden. To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Ernie Millen" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:29:41 +1000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com > Can anyone tell me what the difference is in the power steering on the > Sahara (VX) from the GXL, manual mentions it is different and there is a > solenoid or servo motor on the box but I don't know what the extra does. This is the "Mall Cruiser" option... the solenoid is a hydraulic restricter which opens at low speed to give full assist for parking or very low speed steering ease and closes to an extent at speeds over 50kmph where steering wheel movement is minimal to give you "road feel". Cheers, Ernie Millen 11/91 HDJ80GXL 1HD-T http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ernie60 To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: andrew lukies Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:53:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- Colin Pond wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is in the > power steering on the > Sahara (VX) from the GXL, manual mentions it is > different and there is a > solenoid or servo motor on the box but I don't know > what the extra does. > > thanks, > > Colin Pond > 80 series Sahara, TD, soon to have Intercooler Hi Colin The Sahara has speed sensitive power steering, giving very light steering at parking speeds, and heavier steering at highway speed. Apparently the solenoid can reduce the pressure built up by the pump, therefore reducing assistance. With the GXL, a happy medium was arrived at that many say is too light at speed. Andrew 94 fzj80 auto To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:53:04 +0200 Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com On 3 Apr 2004 at 17:36, Colin Pond wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is in the power steering on the > Sahara (VX) from the GXL, manual mentions it is different and there is > a solenoid or servo motor on the box but I don't know what the extra > does. Probably same as HDJ vs HZJ-80 in Europe: HDJ has variable boost (less at speed, more when going slow), HZJ has fixed boost (like all earlier Cruisers btw). Not that I am impressed with the boost of our HDJ-80 ('90) at standstill....parking against a curb is easier in our HJ60 ('87)....anyone agree? Same difference between HDJ and HZJ? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Colin Pond" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:14:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering >Snip> > Probably same as HDJ vs HZJ-80 in Europe: HDJ has variable boost > (less at speed, more when going slow), HZJ has fixed boost (like all > earlier Cruisers btw). > > Not that I am impressed with the boost of our HDJ-80 ('90) at > standstill....parking against a curb is easier in our HJ60 > ('87)....anyone agree? > Same difference between HDJ and HZJ? Thanks guys, This is what I thought it would be. I have a problem however at low, low speed. When cornering under load in Low, low (Auto). Steering gets extremely heavy which goes against the principle of why the valve is there. I am focussing on the box and not the pump because this problem has existed with 2 pumps, the original 3FE pump and now the 1HZ pump. Steering is beautiful at all other times, only when say climbing a steep hill with a tight turn at the top. Any ideas on how to overcome this. Thanks again, Colin Pond 91, 80 series VX, TD, HID's, extra gauges, 33x 12.5 r16 Silverstone MT117 Sports To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 05:31:47 +0200 Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com On 4 Apr 2004 at 12:14, Colin Pond wrote: > >Snip> > > Probably same as HDJ vs HZJ-80 in Europe: HDJ has variable boost > > (less at speed, more when going slow), HZJ has fixed boost (like all > > earlier Cruisers btw). > > > > Not that I am impressed with the boost of our HDJ-80 ('90) at > > standstill....parking against a curb is easier in our HJ60 > > ('87)....anyone agree? > > Same difference between HDJ and HZJ? > > Thanks guys, > > This is what I thought it would be. > > I have a problem however at low, low speed. When cornering under load in > Low, low (Auto). Steering gets extremely heavy which goes against the > principle of why the valve is there. > > I am focussing on the box and not the pump because this problem has existed > with 2 pumps, the original 3FE pump and now the 1HZ pump. > > Steering is beautiful at all other times, only when say climbing a steep > hill with a tight turn at the top. > > Any ideas on how to overcome this. This reminds me to the fact that I still don't know *how* the variable boost is accomplished: most likely by rpm, while in fact it should be speed.... This explains you low/low scenario....lowest speed, but high rpm. Even more so if the boost is variable to *engine* rpm, given automatic transmission.... -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:24:04 -0000 Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "Willem-Jan Markerink" wrote: > > But *how* is it controlled, by what variable....rpm or roadspeed? > And: can it be fooled tricked into the opposite way, or just fixed in > either position (how many steps are there, inbetween)? > (in particular if it is rpm-variable) WJ, As we've mentioned before it senses road speed, so I guess the true answer would be both road speed and engine rpm. Obviously at low rpm and low roadspeed, maximum assistance is going to be limited by the pumps capacity at low rpm. Wear and age could have an effect on this too, which it did on my old VX. Interesting that Toyota fitted a power steering pressure sensed idle up on the 1HD-FT's (and I think an electronic version on the HDJ100's too)- could be something in that! The solenoid is controlled by a square wave pulse modulation according to the FSM, and I would guess infinitly variable. Regards, Greg Goulden. To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 04:20:29 +0200 Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com On 5 Apr 2004 at 0:24, Greg Goulden wrote: > WJ, > > As we've mentioned before it senses road speed, so I guess the true > answer would be both road speed and engine rpm. The latter just related to power/rpm available to the pump, not as an (electronic) design-variable, right? > Obviously at low rpm and low roadspeed, maximum assistance is going > to be limited by the pumps capacity at low rpm. Wear and age could > have an effect on this too, which it did on my old VX. Anything that indicates approaching pump-failure btw? > Interesting that Toyota fitted a power steering pressure sensed idle > up on the 1HD-FT's (and I think an electronic version on the HDJ100's > too)- could be something in that! > > The solenoid is controlled by a square wave pulse modulation > according to the FSM, and I would guess infinitly variable. > > Regards, > > Greg Goulden. Thanx for clearing this up, here another note on how to increase pressure by fooling the relief-valve (I think)....not sure if this works on both fixed and variable systems....anyone? http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tlc_ps-pump_pressure.txt -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: andrew lukies Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:06:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- Colin Pond wrote: > Thanks guys, > > This is what I thought it would be. > > I have a problem however at low, low speed. When > cornering under load in > Low, low (Auto). Steering gets extremely heavy which > goes against the > principle of why the valve is there. > > I am focussing on the box and not the pump because > this problem has existed > with 2 pumps, the original 3FE pump and now the 1HZ > pump. > > Steering is beautiful at all other times, only when > say climbing a steep > hill with a tight turn at the top. > > Any ideas on how to overcome this. > > Thanks again, > > Colin Pond > 91, 80 series VX, TD, HID's, extra gauges, 33x 12.5 > r16 Silverstone MT117 Hi Colin Had this problem with an old 60 i had. The caryards use thick power steering fluid to replace the thinner auto tranny fluid sometimes put in these steering units. Because it is thicker, it doesnt escape past worn seals as fast on worn boxes. If you ask a specialist power steering place, they will have what you need, there might be a special oil they use for older steering units, and one for normal. Having said that, can you feal a difference in turning resistance from highway speed to parking? Might be a electrical problem with the solenoid or ECU that runs it. Andrew To: <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com> From: "Simon Walsh" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:52:39 +1000 Subject: RE: [80_aus] sahara Power steering Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com > -----Original Message----- > From: andrew lukies [mailto:limo4b@yahoo.com.au] > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 6:54 PM > To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [80_aus] sahara Power steering > > > Hi Colin > The Sahara has speed sensitive power steering, giving > very light steering at parking speeds, and heavier > steering at highway speed. Apparently the solenoid can > reduce the pressure built up by the pump, therefore > reducing assistance. > With the GXL, a happy medium was arrived at that many > say is too light at speed. > Andrew > 94 fzj80 auto Correct ... Also if you disconnect your speedo from the gearbox you'll discover what he's talking about as the steering remains light at any speed. simon