To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 21 Nov 2001 13:54:53 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] OME installation advice? This Sunday I'll be installing OME 850/863 coils, N73 and N74E shocks and an SD24 under my '94 FZJ80. Advice? Are PS/DS to be taken literally by an American (LHD) installer? Or are they Australian (RHD), i.e. backwards to me? I know I'll need to adjust the LSPV. I'm doing it at a friend's shop, he's got a forklift and compressed air. I'll bring metric tools, impact wrench, grinder, pry bar. Anything else? Anyone have a web page showing the procedure? Tried searching the archives, honest. Morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Illegitimi non carborundum http://www.birfield.com/~morgan << To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Jeff Jones" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:11:09 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? > I'm doing it at a friend's shop, he's got a forklift and compressed > air. I'll bring metric tools, impact wrench, grinder, pry bar. Anything > else? > > Anyone have a web page showing the procedure? http://www.acme-outfitters.com/products/arb/arb_emu_install.html has, I believe, some additional info over the instructions... What's the forklift for? :-)) JJJ To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 21 Nov 2001 14:19:02 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? "Jeff Jones" writes: > http://www.acme-outfitters.com/products/arb/arb_emu_install.html has, I > believe, some additional info over the instructions... Aha! Bookmarked. > What's the forklift for? :-)) Lifting! :) Morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Illegitimi non carborundum http://www.birfield.com/~morgan << To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "George Scolaro" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:24:41 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Fletcher [mailto:morgan@hahaha.org] > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:55 PM > To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [80] OME installation advice? > > > This Sunday I'll be installing OME 850/863 coils, N73 and N74E shocks and an > SD24 under my '94 FZJ80. > > Advice? Are PS/DS to be taken literally by an American (LHD) installer? Or are > they Australian (RHD), i.e. backwards to me? > > I know I'll need to adjust the LSPV. > > I'm doing it at a friend's shop, he's got a forklift and compressed > air. I'll bring metric tools, impact wrench, grinder, pry bar. Anything > else? > > Anyone have a web page showing the procedure? > > Tried searching the archives, honest. > > Morgan The PS/DS stickers on the coils are for the oz breathren - i.e. you need to put the PS stickered coil on the oz PS, i.e. the US DS etc. The shocks are the 'limiting straps' for the coils - so you need to remove those before you can slip the old coils out & the new ones in. Spray wd40 or similar on all the bolts (asap) - especially the rear lower shock mounts. Be gentle on them - people have sheared them off. On a similar note - before you dive to far in - make sure you can break (not literally) the lug nuts on all the wheels - people with old cruisers have sheared the studs. The front USDS upper nut can be a bear to get off - an air impact with a universal drive impact socket can do it (no room for a universal and a socket - you need a socket with the universal built in). Even then your socket may not be deep enough for the stud end of the shock. You may need a nut splitter. In my case - I used a big spanner/wrench on the nut and a helper with a big channelock on the shock body - to destructively remove the original shock. The rest of the shocks are easy in comparison. On the rear end if you jack one side of the chassis up only at a time you can slip the old coil out and new one in piece of cake. You may have to undo the antisway bar on the rear - if so, be careful on the bolts that hold it onto the chassis - they can shear. The front is easy too - just keep an eye on the brake lines - they get pretty stretched to slip in the new coils - especially if you also want some spacers in there. The front/rear diff breathers will probably pop off - unless you have already extended them. You can do each side in about 1/2 hour (shock & coil) - the front USDS will be the bear to do. The rear upper shocks are bolted to a plate (one on each side) - remove the two bolts that hold the plate to the chassis and pull the shock & plate out as a unit - take a note of which one goes on which side! The air impact wrench will make taking the nut off the upper shock stud that holds the shock to the plate real easy. When tightening the new shocks you want the polyurethane bushes to be a little squeezed - don't over do it! When you go to bolt the bottom of the rear shocks they will seem to not line up properly - this is ok - the shocks are at a weird angle when the suspension is unloaded - the rubber/poly bushes provide the 'flex' for the shock. I assume the SD24 is the steering damper? If so - I've found it easier to remove the bracket that holds the damper to the chassis with the damper. Then you can use an air hammer with fork attachment on it - it will come off easy. If you try and use the air hammer while the damper is still on the vehicle it will take a LOT more hammering - because it can't transfer the impact as well - some of the it gets 'eaten' up by the bracket mounts etc. That's what I can remember... Have fun and be careful. And - take pics of the process, document it & put it up on a web page when you're done ;-) George Scolaro (San Jose, CA) 1997 4.5l White s/charged + bits Check out: http://www.geocities.com/george_tlc To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 21 Nov 2001 14:34:01 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? Morgan Fletcher writes: > Advice? Are PS/DS to be taken literally by an American (LHD) installer? > Or are they Australian (RHD), i.e. backwards to me? Called ARB in Seattle, WA. They told me "DS" is universal, whether LHD or RHD. It's a slightly taller spring that goes under the side where the driver sits. Since the driver usually makes the biggest weight difference side to side, it goes on whatever side is the driver side. Makes sense to me. They suggest that some adjustment later on for gas tanks, spare tire location, etc. is sometimes called for. Resolved! Morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Illegitimi non carborundum http://www.birfield.com/~morgan << To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Reid Anderson" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:36:55 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? > Morgan Fletcher writes: > > Advice? Are PS/DS to be taken literally by an American (LHD) installer? Or > > are they Australian (RHD), i.e. backwards to me? > > Called ARB in Seattle, WA. They told me "DS" is universal, whether LHD or RHD. > It's a slightly taller spring that goes under the side where the driver sits. > Since the driver usually makes the biggest weight difference side to side, it > goes on whatever side is the driver side. > > Makes sense to me. They suggest that some adjustment later on for gas > tanks, spare tire location, etc. is sometimes called for. > > Resolved! You may want to read it again, but i think this contradicts what Acme Outfitters page says.... I myself have no idea which side which spring belongs on.... Reid To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: szee1@home.com Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:37:15 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: OME installation advice? --- In 80scool@y..., Morgan Fletcher wrote: > This Sunday I'll be installing OME 850/863 coils, N73 and N74E shocks and > an SD24 under my '94 FZJ80. > > Advice? Are PS/DS to be taken literally by an American (LHD) installer? Or > are they Australian (RHD), i.e. backwards to me? > > I know I'll need to adjust the LSPV. > > I'm doing it at a friend's shop, he's got a forklift and compressed > air. I'll bring metric tools, impact wrench, grinder, pry bar. Anything > else? > > Anyone have a web page showing the procedure? > > Tried searching the archives, honest. You're right. Seems that all the old archives on this subject have since been wiped. Having an impact wrench is VERY nice in removing old shock nuts. Otherwise, plan on having a nut splitter handy. You may be tempted to use the forklift to do both right and left side at the same time. However, I think you'd be better off lifting one corner at a time, and replacing one spring/shock at a time. Reason being, I tried doing the 2 wheels off the ground routine on the back, and although the old springs came out ok, it was extremely difficult to get the new spring in. The brake lines were also stretched to the apparant limit. The front would be even more difficult to do with both sides up. So, advice is jack one side up at a time and use a bottle jack between the suspension pieces to 'spread' it apart more if you have to. Jack stands are of course, standard safety requirements. Should be pretty easy if you do that. Bernard Zee Fremont, Kalifornia To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Jeff Jones" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:49:12 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? > The front USDS upper nut can be a bear to get off - an air impact with a > universal drive impact socket can do it (no room for a universal and a > socket - you need a socket with the universal built in). Even then your > socket may not be deep enough for the stud end of the shock. You > may need a > nut splitter. In my case - I used a big spanner/wrench on the nut and a I just loosen the master cylinder mounting nuts and this allows just enough movement to get a regular deep impact+universal at it. Just be gentle with the brake lines as you move them around. JJJ To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: szee1@home.com Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:50:42 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? > Called ARB in Seattle, WA. They told me "DS" is universal, whether LHD or > RHD. It's a slightly taller spring that goes under the side where the > driver sits. Since the driver usually makes the biggest weight difference > side to side, it goes on whatever side is the driver side. > > Makes sense to me. They suggest that some adjustment later on for gas > tanks, spare tire location, etc. is sometimes called for. > > Resolved! > > Morgan > -- No, I don't think ARB seattle is correct. I definiteley recall when doing mine that DS goes on the right side, and PS goes to the driver side. (I assume you're in the US and LHD). The stock springs that came out had the same length relationship as the ones I put in, so I knew I was ok. Plus, the truck is level and not leaning! Or, you can just take your chances, and if one side of your truck sits quite a bit taller than the other, you have to switch them! :-) BZ To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 21 Nov 2001 14:51:41 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? "Jeff Jones" writes: > Amusing... I called back in late'98 or (whenever I did my first OME) and > was told exactly the opposite. Guy I talked to was "Mark". He had the answer at the ready. We need a Zapruder film to figure this out. Morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Illegitimi non carborundum http://www.birfield.com/~morgan << To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Jeff Jones" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:54:21 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? > Called ARB in Seattle, WA. They told me "DS" is universal, whether LHD or RHD. > It's a slightly taller spring that goes under the side where the driver sits. > Since the driver usually makes the biggest weight difference side to side, it > goes on whatever side is the driver side. > Amusing... I called back in late'98 or (whenever I did my first OME) and was told exactly the opposite. They claimed it was the offset drivetrain that made the difference and to reverse the spring locations for the USA. Mine are reversed (from OZ tags) and truck sits level with no one in it... never really looked at it from the end while I was driving it. Maybe that's why this sucker pulls to the left! :-)) Maybe we should ask Norm how he installs the springs on US spec trucks?... oh... nevermind... JJJ To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Michael Schroth" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:09:02 -0500 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? The DS goes on the PS in the US and PS to DS, I screwed up, had a nice lean, Jon Held took care of it. Michael Schroth 95 80 TLCA #10301 To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Jeff Jones" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:09:18 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? > We need a Zapruder film to figure this out. > > Morgan :-))) I vote for the "magic spring" theory... You might stick them on like ARB said, but leave the shocks off and see what happens. If it leans, it won't be too hard to swap them around if the shocks are still off and you can definitely put the shocks on with the tires already mounted. JJJ To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 21 Nov 2001 15:21:47 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? "Michael Schroth" writes: > The DS goes on the PS in the US and PS to DS, I screwed up, had a nice > lean, Jon Held took care of it. Wow, this is screwed up. OK, I will try installing "backwards" (PS->DS, DS->PS) and see if it looks right. Morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Illegitimi non carborundum http://www.birfield.com/~morgan << To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Phil Postmus" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:33:27 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME installation advice? Morgan, To me the biggest weight difference would be the gas tank not the driver. You need to put them on bass ackwards. Cheers, Phil Postmus Supercharged 94 FZJ80 Franklin, TN. USA To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:15:22 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? --- In 80scool@y..., "Jeff Jones" wrote: > Maybe we should ask Norm how he installs the springs on US spec trucks?... > oh... nevermind... > > JJJ I have always swaped the fronts and rears side to side from what they say and have always sat level John Holmaas To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Christo Slee" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:15:01 -0700 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? > I have always swaped the fronts and rears side to side from what they > say and have always sat level Same here. Have done a bunch now and always swap them. Never had a leaning truck. Christo To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Christo Slee" Date sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:32:03 -0700 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? Morgan, couple more pointers. Remove the front swaybar bolts at the rear and let it hand loose. Otherwise you might press the driveshaft onto the swaybar and dent the protection sleeve over the slip joint. On the rear, remove the swaybar mounts from the frame. Two 12mm bolts each side. Pretty easy and makes it a lot easier. Also remove the 12 mm bolt from the frame at the bracket where the hardline from the brakes meets the softline. This will take all the tension out of the rear brake line by loosening the bracket. DS-PS and PS-DS. I can guarantee it. I am an ARB dealer and I know there story. They won't admit they are labeled for OZ. They are made for OZ trucks, but our trucks are not a 100% mirror image. Never had a customer complain. Must have done 15 or more kits by now. Snap-on makes a very nice semi-deep socket with swivel joint that will actually allow you to remove the nut on the DS front shock with an impact. Problem is you need to buy a 17mm and a 19mm. Well worth it for a shop (about $45 a piece) since it makes a hour job into a couple of minutes. Before I had good luck with a box wrench on the nut and a pipe wrench on the shock. Works for removing the old one since it doesn't matter if you trash the shock. Doesn't really work for the new one. Also, depending on the age of the shocks you got, there might be a paper note in the little bag with the bushings. This shows the order for washers and bushings. Or it is printed on the little bag. We always leave one washer off. We do it the same way the factory does. Check the order of washers and bushings as you remove the shocks. That way you have a bushing seating against the body side on one side. Otherwise you might get some noises from the front as the pin moves around in the hole. As for SD24, it is either easy or not. Can't help you on that. If the pickle fork does not take it off, then you might have to apply some heat. Another good idea is to run a die over the treads of the new steering damper before installing. Lately there seem to be a lot of paint on the treads and makes getting the nuts started a pain. Also on this, don't use the impact. It will spin the shaft in the bushing and it will not seat itself in the taper. Just use a hand ratchet and you should be ok. Are you doing caster bushings? If so that is a whole email on itself. Christo Slee mailto:christo@sleeoffroad.com http://www.sleeoffroad.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:17:21 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? From: George Scolaro SNIP > note - before you dive to far in - make sure you can break (not literally) > the lug nuts on all the wheels - people with old cruisers have sheared the SNIP Agree with all you say George, but why do you guys remove the wheels to fit springs and shocks? To me, that seems a bit like winding the window down to replace the battery. I can see some distinct advantages in leaving the wheels on: 1) If you are crawling about underneath, and the worst happens, the axle can get no closer to the ground (to squash you) than it's normal position. 2) The weight of the wheel actually aids in pulling down the axle to give space for spring R&R. 3) The wheel/tyre is an easy platform for your mate to lean on to pull the axle down. 4) A six foot length of 4x2 can be slipped under the chassis and over the tyre to make it real easy to lever the axle down for more space. I use this method on my own and hang a water can on the 4x2 to hold the axle/chassis apart. 864s slip in real easy. 5) And most important, you don't need to bother with said pesky "lug nuts". 6) Oh yeah...you get to this step quicker. ;-) I'm sure there are some distinct advantages in taking the wheels off. You want to list them for me? Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: "80s COOL international" <80scool@yahoogroups.com> Copies to: "Greg Milton" From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:22:01 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? From: Morgan Fletcher > Morgan Fletcher writes: > > Advice? Are PS/DS to be taken literally by an American (LHD) installer? > > Or are they Australian (RHD), i.e. backwards to me? > > Called ARB in Seattle, WA. They told me "DS" is universal, whether LHD or > RHD. It's a slightly taller spring that goes under the side where the > driver sits. Since the driver usually makes the biggest weight difference > side to side, it goes on whatever side is the driver side. > > Makes sense to me. They suggest that some adjustment later on for gas > tanks, spare tire location, etc. is sometimes called for. > > Resolved! > Oooo...I seriously doubt that ARB or Old Man Emu in Oz would agree with that; nor would 99% of your compatriots who have fitted OME suspension. You will find that the original springs are taller on one side, and the OME match this anomaly. Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Christo Slee" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:40:22 -0700 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? > SNIP > > Agree with all you say George, but why do you guys remove the wheels to > fit springs and shocks? To me, that seems a bit like winding the window > down to replace the battery. Norm, it is because of the big tires we run :-)))) Actually very few DIY mechanics have tall enough jack stands to get the frame that far off the ground and be able to droop the axle enough to get the springs out. Funny thing was that in the shop when we started to do the suspensions on a lift, we also removed the tires. Old habits die hard. Now we don't do that unless we are checking brakes at the same time. Christo To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "George Scolaro" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? --- In 80scool@y..., "Christo Slee" wrote: > > SNIP > > > > Agree with all you say George, but why do you guys remove the wheels to > > fit springs and shocks? To me, that seems a bit like winding the window > > down to replace the battery. > > Norm, > > it is because of the big tires we run :-)))) Actually very few DIY mechanics > have tall enough jack stands to get the frame that far off the ground and be > able to droop the axle enough to get the springs out. snip > Christo Thanks Christo - I knew there was a reason why I was doing the extra work of removing the wheels ;-) Norm - I'm sure you have a nice full vehicle lift in your garage at home ;-) along with some of the other handy tools you took home when you sold the business ;-) cheers, george scolaro (san jose, ca) To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:44:40 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? From: Christo Slee > Before I had good luck with a box wrench on the nut and a pipe wrench on the > shock. Works for removing the old one since it doesn't matter if you trash > the shock. Doesn't really work for the new one. > Christo et al, It's a good idea to wire brush the powder coating from the thread on the OME shocks. It can at times be thick enough to cause severe binding. > > We always leave one washer off. We do it the same way the factory does. > Check the order of washers and bushings as you remove the shocks. That way > you have a bushing seating against the body side on one side. Otherwise you > might get some noises from the front as the pin moves around in the hole. > Sage advice. The reason for the two bush locating washers in the small parts kit is that the kit is put together for a number of vehicle applications (not just specifically for Land Cruiser). The danger in using both the washers is that their combined flange(s) length is sometimes greater than the thickness of the mounting hole. This means that no matter how much one compresses the bushes, there is some clearance (with consequent rattling/looseness and wear) where the shaft goes through the hole. If you do not have the original configuration of washers/bushes because shocks have been changed before, then here it is: >From pin to body, nut heavy washer bush mounting hole bush locating washer bush heavy washer Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Christo Slee" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:01:37 -0700 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? > Sage advice. The reason for the two bush locating washers in the small > parts kit is that the kit is put together for a number of vehicle > applications (not just specifically for Land Cruiser). The danger in > using both the washers is that their combined flange(s) length is > sometimes greater than the thickness of the mounting hole. This means > that no matter how much one compresses the bushes, there is some > clearance (with consequent rattling/looseness and wear) where the shaft > goes through the hole. Norm, fwiw, the latest shocks do no come with 2 locating washers. Only 1 and then 3 flat ones. Christo To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:11:51 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? From: Christo Slee > > Sage advice. The reason for the two bush locating washers in the small > > parts kit is that the kit is put together for a number of vehicle > > Norm, fwiw, the latest shocks do no come with 2 locating washers. Only 1 and > then 3 flat ones. > Thanks Christo, I'm out of the trade for a mere 12 months and already my information is unreliable. Could y'all please make a note to take no notice of what I say. ;-) NN To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:33:25 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME installation advice? From: George Scolaro > --- In 80scool@y..., "Christo Slee" wrote: > > > SNIP > > > > > > Agree with all you say George, but why do you guys remove the > wheels to > > > fit springs and shocks? To me, that seems a bit like winding the > window > > > down to replace the battery. > > > > Norm, > > > > it is because of the big tires we run :-)))) Actually very few DIY > mechanics > > have tall enough jack stands to get the frame that far off the > ground and be > > able to droop the axle enough to get the springs out. > snip > > Christo > > Thanks Christo - I knew there was a reason why I was doing the extra > work of removing the wheels ;-) > > Norm - I'm sure you have a nice full vehicle lift in your garage at > home ;-) along with some of the other handy tools you took home when > you sold the business ;-) > OK...I'll admit that I do have a hoist (lift) in the shed, amongst a lot of other gear. ;-) But Morgan said at the start of this thread that he had access to a fork lift! Garn....take your wheels off...see if I care. ;-) Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Phil Postmus" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:35:19 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] OME Installation advice > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham [mailto:gh_bell@primus.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:34 PM > To: 80 series > Subject: [80] OME Installation advice > > At the risk of opening yet another thread some what away from 80 but related to the > spring question_ > Doesn't every action have an equal and opposite reaction? So, in motion, > your motor is applying force to the road (or hopefully track) via wheels and > transmission. Presumably if it were not attached to the vehicle body, the motor > would rotate and the vehicle stay still when you engaged the drive. So--does that > not mean that the reaction to the power being applied by the motor is via the engine > mounts on one side of the motor and wouldn't this mean the load on springs etc on > that side of the car being higher than the other, thus justifying heavier springs on > the same side regardless of RHD, LHD, fat or skinny drivers? > Shoot me down in flames someone, I am losing sleep over this! > > > Graham Bell > Sydney Aust. > '91 80 HDT Heading for the High Country Graham, I think you have a good point on this and it may be relevant to on road handling and straight ahead steering but everyone seems to worry how level the truck sits in the driveway. Cheers, Phil Postmus Supercharged 94 FZJ80 Franklin, TN. USA To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:03:52 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME Installation advice From: Graham > At the risk of opening yet another thread some what away from 80 but related to the spring question_ > Doesn't every action have an equal and opposite reaction? So, in motion, your motor is applying force to the road (or hopefully track) via wheels and transmission. Presumably if it were not attached to the vehicle body, the motor would rotate and the vehicle stay still when you engaged the drive. So--does that not mean that the reaction to the power being applied by the motor is via the engine mounts on one side of the motor and wouldn't this mean the load on springs etc on that side of the car being higher than the other, thus justifying heavier springs on the same side regardless of RHD, LHD, fat or skinny drivers? > Shoot me down in flames someone, I am losing sleep over this! > > Hi Graham, I guess there has to be one in every crowd huh? ;-) About actions and their equal and opposites; we all know this law of physics. But I would like one of the academics on the list to explain why your 80 doesn't do what you have just said. And while they are at it, they might like to explain why a BMW or Moto Guzzi motorcycle doesn't fall over when one opens the throttle? Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "William Miranda (Bill)" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:30:50 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME Installation advice >"might like to explain why a BMW or Moto Guzzi motorcycle > doesn't fall over when one opens the throttle? > > Cheers * > Norm * * > '97 HDJ80 * > Tea Gardens - Oz * > (Somewhere on the coast) > Trac4@b..." Not an academic but,.. counterweights on the crank? Bill Miranda TLCA#7390 1991 80 Virginia, USA To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Sean Fitzpatrick" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 23:05:31 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME Installation advice > Hi Graham, > I guess there has to be one in every crowd huh? ;-) > About actions and their equal and opposites; we all know this law of > physics. But I would like one of the academics on the list to explain > why your 80 doesn't do what you have just said. And while they are at > it, they might like to explain why a BMW or Moto Guzzi motorcycle > doesn't fall over when one opens the throttle? G'day all I'll give this one a go, lets say a motor is pushing out 300NM on torque. Presuming the motor is in the centre of the car, and there is 1 metre from the centre of the crankshaft to the side of the car. Therefore there will be 300 newtons trying to twist the car. Therefore there is 150 newtons pushing up one side and 150 pushing down the other. 150 newtons equals about 15 kg or 33 pound so it is really bugger all. Also there is more than one metre from the centre of the car so it will be even less. HTH Sean To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Michael Nelson" Date sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:52:59 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME Installation advice --- In 80scool@y..., "William Miranda (Bill)" wrote: > >"might like to explain why a BMW or Moto Guzzi motorcycle > > doesn't fall over when one opens the throttle? > > > > Not an academic but,.. counterweights on the crank? Can't help myself... have to jump in here. I don't know about BMW's or Moto Guzzis, but the old Honda CX500 (I think that was it... v- twin across the frame) used to tilt a little when you reved it at slow speeds. I guess the inertia of the spinning wheels that keeps a bike upright is enough to counteract the effect at speed. Dunno. Michael To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:57:17 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] OME 850/864 combo and light load Is anyone running 850's and 864's with a very light load(no winch, rack,no load in rear, ect) and have no problems with vibration with the stock drivelines? I have this set up(with a 1" spacer in the front as well, that will go back in with new springs) but my 80 is VERY loaded down, and sits pretty darn low. What I'm trying to figure out is if I go up another inch or so all the way around will I have any driveline vibrations. I have a set of the 850+25mm coming soon and will also add a 1-1.5" spacer(need to have Christo make me a set) in the rear to level her off. I kinda figure this will get me not much higher than the 850/864 combo if it was on a unloaded 80, does this make sense? So anyone out that can shed some light on this? if so I would like to get some measurements of how your 80 sits, I guess the best would be from the center(or top or bottom) of the hub to the bottom edge of the fender front and rear. or if no one runs this combo as stated above, what's the highest lift anyone is running with out driveline mods? I'm not afraid of doing the drivline rework if needed but would like to get an idea in advance if I'm gonna have to or not. I kinda think(could be a problem right there) I will be OK, but...... Thanks John Holmaas 92 fj80 USA To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Pat Takash" Date sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:39:02 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME 850/864 combo and light load ----- Original Message ----- From: John Holmaas Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 6:57 PM > Is anyone running 850's and 864's with a very light load(no winch, > rack,no load in rear, ect) and have no problems with vibration with > the stock drivelines? > > I have this set up(with a 1" spacer in the front as well, that will > go back in with new springs) but my 80 is VERY loaded down, and sits > pretty darn low. What I'm trying to figure out is if I go up another > inch or so all the way around will I have any driveline vibrations. I > have a set of the 850+25mm coming soon and will also add a 1-1.5" > spacer(need to have Christo make me a set) in the rear to level her > off. I kinda figure this will get me not much higher than the 850/864 > combo if it was on a unloaded 80, does this make sense? So anyone out > that can shed some light on this? if so I would like to get some > measurements of how your 80 sits, I guess the best would be from the > center(or top or bottom) of the hub to the bottom edge of the fender > front and rear. > > or if no one runs this combo as stated above, what's the highest lift > anyone is running with out driveline mods? I'm not afraid of doing > the drivline rework if needed but would like to get an idea in > advance if I'm gonna have to or not. I kinda think(could be a problem > right there) I will be OK, but...... I run the 850/64 combo with 1.25 inch spacer in back and 2.75 in front. I run with and without load and recently wheeled without load when bumper was being made. Drive line vibration was not much different than when loaded down, (about 1 inch different in height). Bouncing around with no load was the real problem. PT To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Steve and Susan Laird Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:49:45 -0800 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME 850/864 combo and light load John Holmaas wrote: > Is anyone running 850's and 864's with a very light load(no winch, > rack,no load in rear, ect) and have no problems with vibration with > the stock drivelines? > > I have this set up(with a 1" spacer in the front as well, that will > go back in with new springs) but my 80 is VERY loaded down, and sits > pretty darn low. What I'm trying to figure out is if I go up another > inch or so all the way around will I have any driveline vibrations. I > have a set of the 850+25mm coming soon and will also add a 1-1.5" > spacer(need to have Christo make me a set) in the rear to level her > off. I kinda figure this will get me not much higher than the 850/864 > combo if it was on a unloaded 80, does this make sense? So anyone out > that can shed some light on this? if so I would like to get some > measurements of how your 80 sits, I guess the best would be from the > center(or top or bottom) of the hub to the bottom edge of the fender > front and rear. > > or if no one runs this combo as stated above, what's the highest lift > anyone is running with out driveline mods? I'm not afraid of doing > the drivline rework if needed but would like to get an idea in > advance if I'm gonna have to or not. I kinda think(could be a problem > right there) I will be OK, but...... > > Thanks > John Holmaas > 92 fj80 > USA John, I have this set up as well. 850/864's no Kaymar and no front winch. 1 1/2 spacer in front.....no spacer in back. The truck drives straight on with no vibration. Steve To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:27:08 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME 850/864 combo and light load --- In 80scool@y..., "Pat Takash" wrote: > I run the 850/64 combo with 1.25 inch spacer in back and 2.75 in front. I > run with and without load and recently wheeled without load when bumper was > being made. Drive line vibration was not much different than when loaded > down, (about 1 inch different in height). Bouncing around with no load was > the real problem. > > PT Excelent looks like I should be OK, if you happen to get a chance would you mind taking a measurement or two for me, the way it sits currently...I'm still curious ;-) John Holmaas To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:31:35 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] OME 850/864 combo and light load --- In 80scool@y..., Steve and Susan Laird wrote: > John, I have this set up as well. 850/864's no Kaymar and no front winch. 1 > 1/2 spacer in front.....no spacer in back. The truck drives straight on with > no vibration. > Steve Thanks, Steve, if you get a chance i wouldn't mind some measurements.....no hurry though. John Holmaas PS I finaly got(only a month or 2 late) the recent Toyota Trails......nice picture of you catching some air ;-)) To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "William Miranda (Bill)" Date sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:40:21 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: OME 850/864 combo and light load "what's the highest lift anyone is running with out driveline mods? I'm not afraid of doing the drivline rework if needed but would like to get an idea in advance if I'm gonna have to or not. I kinda think (could be a problem right there) I will be OK, but...... Thanks John Holmaas 92 fj80 USA" I have 4" taller springs and 2" spacers. No mods whatsoever. There's a pic of my truck in the files section, next to my lifted 4Runner. Bill TLCA#7390 To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Christo Slee" Date sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:51:39 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: OME 850/864 combo and light load > or if no one runs this combo as stated above, what's the highest lift > anyone is running with out driveline mods? I'm not afraid of doing > the drivline rework if needed but would like to get an idea in > advance if I'm gonna have to or not. I kinda think(could be a problem > right there) I will be OK, but...... John, Strange thing is you never know which truck is going to give you vibrations. However when we do 850/863 with 1.5" spacers and Outback arms we run a CV style front drive shaft. If we change the 863's for 864's in the rear, we make adjustable rear upper control arms that allow you to correct the pinion angle for the rear. Every truck we have done with the 864's in the rear with a 1.5" spacer showed some signs of vibrations and noises from the back until we correct the angles. Load does make a difference but in these cases it was with bumper/tire carriers and aux fuel tanks. Christo To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 02:16:01 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: OME 850/864 combo and light load --- In 80scool@y..., "Christo Slee" wrote: > > > or if no one runs this combo as stated above, what's the highest > lift > > anyone is running with out driveline mods? I'm not afraid of doing > > the drivline rework if needed but would like to get an idea in > > advance if I'm gonna have to or not. I kinda think(could be a > problem > > right there) I will be OK, but...... > > John, > > Strange thing is you never know which truck is going to give you > vibrations. However when we do 850/863 with 1.5" spacers and Outback > arms we run a CV style front drive shaft. > > If we change the 863's for 864's in the rear, we make adjustable rear > upper control arms that allow you to correct the pinion angle for the > rear. > > Every truck we have done with the 864's in the rear with a 1.5" > spacer showed some signs of vibrations and noises from the back until > we correct the angles. > > Load does make a difference but in these cases it was with > bumper/tire carriers and aux fuel tanks. > > Christo I'm sure your right that no two 80 will be the same, some may need mods others not. I took some measurement and compared them to Mark Shiveley's 92 with 850/863's and no real load(bar no winch and rack) and no reported vibrations. Measurements are from hub center to lower fender lip. Marks Front r- 21-5/8" l- 22" Rear r- 24" l- 23-3/4" mine (takin in the dark) 850 and 1" spacer, rear 864's no spacer front 22.25 rear 21.75 I averaged sides as I have no real good level spot in the yard to measure.....this however will be changing ;-) so if anything (going up 1-1.5 inches)the front may have some trouble, but I need to pull the shaft anyway and have it rebalanced and put out of phase, so if needed it will get a CV installed. the rear looks to be OK as it sits very low(1000+lbs of stuff in the rear will do that) what is the aproximate(knowing it will very from shop to shop) cost of doing a CV front shaft? I'm guessing the curent shaft just gets modified? FWIW here is a pic of how it sits currently >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View? u=1404277&a=10494428&p=56728225&Sequence=0&res=high as you can see it does sit level......but LOW. I think when I had all the gear(crap) out of the real last year when putting the Milford in it raised up a good 2+inchs.....and no I'm not gonna take all the gear out, only add more ;-) but till I do it I won;t know.......and yes I am anal ;-) Thanks John Holmaas To: "80scool OZ" <80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com>, "80s COOL international" <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:32:27 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] From ARB Oz Below is copied from Lachlan's correspondence to me after I copied my response to Morgan's original post to him, and then asked if I might pass on his (Lachlan's) reply to the list in general. I know that the shade tree mechanics amongst you change one coil at a time (I do too) and will ask; "Well how the hell can I judge which coil on any one axle is higher when I only have the first one out?" I think the answer is that those of you who drive on the wrong (or is that right?) side of the road, should reverse the installation as far as DS and PS markings go. Just think nautically; the "P" in PS stands for "port". ;-) Cheers Norm From: ARB Exports To: Norm Needham > Hello Norm, > > Thank you for your response. That will be fine, correct information is > important for the success of the fitted product. > > Best Regards > > Lachlan > -------- Thank you for your email communications, please allow me to clarify this. As you are aware a vehicle's springs carry the weight of the vehicle. Unfortunately the vehicle manufacturers never centre the weight (left to right). Consequently, to properly trim the vehicle (balance from left to right) we must adjust the height of the spring to allow for the weight difference (as does the original spring). This weight difference is most commonly dependant on the position of the fuel tank and transfer case, and differs depending on the vehicle model. Given this, the DS/PS labelling can be deceptive in right hand drive countries. To correctly install the springs, you simply compare the heights of the Original springs you have pulled out of the vehicle and replace the taller OME spring on the same side as the taller OE spring. I hope this is of assistance. Best Regards Lachlan McCann ARB Exports -------- To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:13:12 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: From ARB Oz --- In 80scool@y..., "Norm Needham" wrote: > Below is copied from Lachlan's correspondence to me after I copied my > response to Morgan's original post to him, and then asked if I might > pass on his (Lachlan's) reply to the list in general. > I know that the shade tree mechanics amongst you change one coil at a > time (I do too) and will ask; > "Well how the hell can I judge which coil on any one axle is higher when > I only have the first one out?" > I think the answer is that those of you who drive on the wrong (or is > that right?) side of the road, should reverse the installation as far as > DS and PS markings go. > Just think nautically; the "P" in PS stands for "port". ;-) > > Cheers > Norm But......the fuel tank, trany/t-case and diffs do not change sides from a right hand drive to a left hand drive 80's........do they? if they don't change(and I don't think they do) then according to the way I read(and I may be reading it wrong) Lachlans(ARB Oz) reply, we in left hand drive(right side of the road, US) rigs would need to install the springs the way they are labled(ie the same as you do in Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs (unsprung) so therefor are not part of the equation....right? Now I'm really confused! HELP ;-) John Holmaas To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Brian's '94 " <80sCOOL@PicoDyne.com> Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:19:40 -0500 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [80] Re: From ARB Oz > > I think the answer is that those of you who drive on the wrong (or > is > > that right?) side of the road, should reverse the installation as > far as > > DS and PS markings go. > > Just think nautically; the "P" in PS stands for "port". ;-) > > > > Cheers > > Norm > > But......the fuel tank, trany/t-case and diffs do not change sides > from a right hand drive to a left hand drive 80's........do they? if > they don't change(and I don't think they do) then according to the > way I read(and I may be reading it wrong) Lachlans(ARB Oz) reply, we > in left hand drive(right side of the road, US) rigs would need to > install the springs the way they are labled(ie the same as you do in > Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the > springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs > (unsprung) so therefor are not part of the > equation....right? Now I'm > really confused! HELP ;-) > > John Holmaas > John, I think your confusion stems from the fact that indeed we do install the springs in the same locations as someone anywhere else in the world, but that the labeling is for right-hand-drive 80s. So, when the spring is labeled DS, it means Right Side on ANY 80, and when labeled PS, it means Port Side (the sailor in me likes that Norm ;), or left side, on any 80 in the world. HTH, Brian To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "John Holmaas" Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:32:10 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: From ARB Oz --- In 80scool@y..., "Brian's '94 " <80sCOOL@P...> wrote: > > > I think the answer is that those of you who drive on the wrong (or > > is > > > that right?) side of the road, should reverse the installation as > > far as > > > DS and PS markings go. > > > Just think nautically; the "P" in PS stands for "port". ;-) > > > > > > Cheers > > > Norm > > > > But......the fuel tank, trany/t-case and diffs do not change sides > > from a right hand drive to a left hand drive 80's........do they? if > > they don't change(and I don't think they do) then according to the > > way I read(and I may be reading it wrong) Lachlans(ARB Oz) reply, we > > in left hand drive(right side of the road, US) rigs would need to > > install the springs the way they are labled(ie the same as you do in > > Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the > > springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs > > (unsprung) so therefor are not part of the > > equation....right? Now I'm > > really confused! HELP ;-) > > > > John Holmaas > > > > John, > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that indeed we do install the > springs in the same locations as someone anywhere else in the world, but > that the labeling is for right-hand-drive 80s. So, when the spring is > labeled DS, it means Right Side on ANY 80, and when labeled PS, it means > Port Side (the sailor in me likes that Norm ;), or left side, on any 80 > in the world. > > HTH, > > Brian Ah......I see! I now get what Norm ment by putting them on the port (left) side(yeah I know which the port side is, but didn't get his meaning).....ah hell I'm just not a morning person....so the brain is a little slow(er) than normal ;-) Thanks Brian.....It's clear now, but give me the diffs part as not being part of the load the springs carry.......please. John Holmaas To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Reid Anderson" Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:49:58 -0600 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Re: From ARB Oz >But......the fuel tank, trany/t-case and diffs do not change sides >from a right hand drive to a left hand drive 80's........do they? if >they don't change(and I don't think they do) then according to the >way I read(and I may be reading it wrong) Lachlans(ARB Oz) reply, we >in left hand drive(right side of the road, US) rigs would need to >install the springs the way they are labled(ie the same as you do in >Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the >springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs >(unsprung) so therefor are not part of the equation....right? Now I'm >really confused! HELP ;-) > >John Holmaas He doesn't mention anything that I saw about weight of the diffs, but aside from that it would seem it is *he* that is confused, and that *you* have it perfectly straight. It would also seem that it is this lack of "absolute" information that leads him to conclude that you should replace using "relative" values: the "long" stock spring with the "long" OME spring and "short" with "short". I gather he doesn't know which side would have which spring in a left hand drive model. Hmmm. Reid Reid Anderson; cruisermantis@home.off-road.com TLCA #10045; Tornado Alley Cruisers (www.tornadoalleycruisers.com) '84 FJ60; Lenexa, KS To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "William Miranda (Bill)" Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:32:40 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: From ARB Oz Okay,.. now that we've agreed that the diffs are unsprung (as they are not being supported by the springs) I have a quick question. Why do the springs go where they go? Where is the battery mounted in a stock US-Spec 80 series, and a stock RHD 80 series? If the RHDs mirror the LHDs, well then the spring could be to make up for the weight of a driver and the steering system, Battery, Dash (minimal). All that should add up to approximately 3-400 lbs (150- 200Kgs for you RHD guys) difference in side to side weight. I'm totally out of the loop as my battery is on the US Pax side, and I don't have the straight six in there anymore. I have no idea what spring I put where when I swapped over to the 6" lift. I ride level though. Bill Miranda TLCA#7390 1991 LHD FJ-80/8 To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:42:47 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Re: From ARB Oz From: William Miranda (Bill) > Okay,.. now that we've agreed that the diffs are unsprung (as they > are not being supported by the springs) I have a quick question. > Why do the springs go where they go? > > Where is the battery mounted in a stock US-Spec 80 series, and a > stock RHD 80 series? > > If the RHDs mirror the LHDs, well then the spring could be to make up > for the weight of a driver and the steering system, Battery, Dash > (minimal). All that should add up to approximately 3-400 lbs (150- > 200Kgs for you RHD guys) difference in side to side weight. > > I'm totally out of the loop as my battery is on the US Pax side, and > I don't have the straight six in there anymore. I have no idea what > spring I put where when I swapped over to the 6" lift. I ride level > though. > Bill, I think it is the main mass, and location of the big bits in the vehicle that determines which side of the vehicle is heavier. Things like battery location might make only a marginal difference. For instance, the battery is located on the other side in a diesel, and 24 volt models have a battery either side: the springs remain the same. Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:51:56 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Re: From ARB Oz From: Reid Anderson > > >But......the fuel tank, trany/t-case and diffs do not change sides > >from a right hand drive to a left hand drive 80's........do they? if > >they don't change(and I don't think they do) then according to the > >way I read(and I may be reading it wrong) Lachlans(ARB Oz) reply, we > >in left hand drive(right side of the road, US) rigs would need to > >install the springs the way they are labled(ie the same as you do in > >Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the > >springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs > >(unsprung) so therefor are not part of the equation....right? Now I'm > >really confused! HELP ;-) > > > >John Holmaas > > He doesn't mention anything that I saw about weight of the diffs, but aside > from that it would seem it is *he* that is confused, and that *you* have it > perfectly straight. > > It would also seem that it is this lack of "absolute" information that leads > him to conclude that you should replace using "relative" values: the "long" > stock spring with the "long" OME spring and "short" with "short". I gather > he doesn't know which side would have which spring in a left hand drive > model. > > Hmmm. > Reid, I think Lachlan is an engineer, not an English language teacher. ;-) His explanation could have been a little better written, but I think the facts are right. He does however make the mistake of substituting the words "right hand drive" for "left hand drive"; but we all know what he means. Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Norm Needham" Date sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:54:28 +1100 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Re: From ARB Oz From: Brian's '94 <80sCOOL@PicoDyne.com> > > > > Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the > > > > springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs > > > > (unsprung) so therefor are not part of the > > > > equation....right? Now I'm > > > > really confused! HELP ;-) > > > > > > > > John Holmaas > > > > > a little slow(er) than normal ;-) Thanks Brian.....It's clear now, > > but give me the diffs part as not being part of the load the springs > > carry.......please. > > > > John Holmaas > > Yep, I agree, the diffs are unsprung weight, and generally don't affect > the size of the springs, and certainly not the lean of the vehicle. > > You must be waking up ;) > > Brian (almost ready for lunch in the East) > Brian and John, Lachlan makes no reference to "diffs" in his explanation. He does however use the word "differs". Perhaps this is where your confusion is arising? Cheers * Norm * * '97 HDJ80 * Tea Gardens - Oz * (Somewhere on the coast) Trac4@bigpond.com To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "William Miranda (Bill)" Date sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:01:04 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: [80] Re: From ARB Oz --- In 80scool@y..., "Norm Needham" wrote: > From: Brian's '94 <80sCOOL@P...> > > > > > > Oz) AND the diffs can't(can they) have anything to do with the > > > > > springs carrying capacity, they are mounted under the springs > > > > > (unsprung) so therefor are not part of the > > > > > equation....right? Now I'm > > > > > really confused! HELP ;-) > > > > > > > > > > John Holmaas > > > > > > > > a little slow(er) than normal ;-) Thanks Brian.....It's clear now, > > > but give me the diffs part as not being part of the load the > springs > > > carry.......please. > > > > > > John Holmaas > > > > Yep, I agree, the diffs are unsprung weight, and generally don't > affect > > the size of the springs, and certainly not the lean of the vehicle. > > > > You must be waking up ;) > > > > Brian (almost ready for lunch in the East) > > > Brian and John, > Lachlan makes no reference to "diffs" in his explanation. > He does however use the word "differs". Perhaps this is where your > confusion is arising? > > Cheers * > Norm * * > '97 HDJ80 * > Tea Gardens - Oz * > (Somewhere on the coast) > Trac4@b... Ahh,.. but in his original post, John DID mention diffs. The thread started with the "unsprung" weight question and snowballed into this big gooey mess. Bill Miranda TLCA#7390 To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: Runar Sigurjonsson Date sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:46:55 -0000 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [80] Re: From ARB Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Needham" Subject: Re: [80] Re: From ARB Oz > Bill, > I think it is the main mass, and location of the big bits in the vehicle > that determines which side of the vehicle is heavier. Things like > battery location might make only a marginal difference. For instance, > the battery is located on the other side in a diesel, and 24 volt models > have a battery either side: the springs remain the same. Are there any 24Volt models at all?? The arctic versions have dual batteries, but are only 12 Volts (except for the starter that is 24V). Cheers Runsi To: <80scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Christo Slee" Date sent: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 07:13:23 -0700 Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: Longer OME springs and shocks WAS ( [80] How much lift...?) > I have been told that ARB have developed a higher rear spring designated > 864J which gives a further 31.25mm height, also new shocks to be released have > a further 50mm travel. Actually 850J and 863J are the longer springs. Should be in stock in OZ and availabale in the US again in mid Dec. I believe they might also make the 864J. 1 The new shocks are N73L and N74L. They will be 50mm longer on extension and 20-30mm longer on compression. Valving is the same as N73 and N73E. The shocks should be available in Mid Dec in OZ and sometime early Jan in the US. This requires a public thank you to Jim Jackson and Chris Woods for pushing this for us. Adrian Vega from South America also had a large hand in convincing them on this. Christo To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "fj6080" Date sent: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:04:49 -0000 Subject: [80] OME 850j's and stuff Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com Today I replaced my ome 850 with 850j's and also added a 1.5" spacer to the rear 864's. Raised the front a tad over an inch, and I have no issues with castor or driveline vibration(as far as I can tell) So I have 850j+1" spacer and 864+1.5" spacer.......looks good, sits lever side to side, front to rear and all seems to work well, but I will swap a set of longer OME shocks in the front when they come out. But what I did find out(and I must have just forgot) the front springs were put in just like they are labeled, ie DS on DS, PS on PS,the longer spring is the PS, would have sworn I had put em in the other way around.......but regardless it sat level before and sits level now. the rears are however swaped side to side(as they have been for years) and it sits level. I know we talked about this a month ago.........but I got a bit mixed up about what the finaly outcome was. I had always remembered swapin the fronts as well.......but guess not. John Holmaas (in constant confusion) 92 fj80 USA To: 80scool@yahoogroups.com From: "bozza4president" Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:59:21 -0000 Subject: [80] Re: Longer OME springs [CHAT] Send reply to: 80scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool@y..., "Christo Slee" wrote: > > I have been told that ARB have developed a higher rear spring designated > > 864J which gives a further 31.25mm height, also new shocks to be released > > have a further 50mm travel. > > Actually 850J and 863J are the longer springs. Should be in stock in OZ and > availabale in the US again in mid Dec. I believe they might also make the > 864J. Anyone know what the J classification stands for? [J]apan. The Japanese re-seller has long required the OME's to be longer. 850J, 863J etc...are the [J]apanese market specific products offered by ARB. They will sit your vehicle higher, and will also sit your car level. As John Holmaas pointed out, the 850J's will sit your front end at least an inch higher than the normal 850's. The J specs were those demanded by the Japanese re-seller, based on specific market/country conditions. ARB probably felt that the re- spec. was Japan specific. There are sometimes more issues at stake than the ride height.