Safari (4"): http://www.man-a-fre.com/leafcoil.html Ironman: http://www.ironmansuspension.com/toyota/TOYlfj5.htm http://www.ironmansuspension.com/toyota/FJ55.htm http://www.ironmansuspension.com/leaftec.htm Pinnacle Engineering: http://www.jtoutfitters.com/Part/suspension/pe/index.html http://www.jtoutfitters.com/Part/suspension/pe/55susp.jpg GT Suspension (2-3"): ? TPI4x4 (4"): http://www.tpi4x4.com/lcinp4_3A.html Alcan (4", custom): www.alcanspring.com Avo (adjustable shox): http://www.avouk.com/avoadjustable6.htm Black Diamond (shox, also listed in Warn catalog): ? To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: The ironpigs list is live! From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 23 Mar 1998 19:43:18 -0800 Cc: editor@tlca.org, rpatston@wco.com New Subscriptions ================= Just so you all know, this afternoon I added those folks in the FJ55 Registry to the mailing list that hadn't yet made it. (most of you) There are now 86 people subscribed to the ironpigs@lists.best.com mailing list. That's just a few people short of the registry membership. There were a few addresses that bounced when I checked them for validity, and there are a few mystery entries in the registry. (Lance, want to take a crack at identifying them?) You control your subscription to the mailing list. Want off? Instructions are at: http://www.best.com/faq/bestserv/bestserv1.html If you have questions about the list, send me mail. Spreading the Word ================== I'll send a message to the landcruisers@tlca.org mailing list, giving the Registry's status and inviting newcomers. I'll also post that message on the Land Cruiser Owner's Forum at www.4x44u.com, and the rec.autos.4x4 newsgroup. I'll see if I can get someone at www.tlca.org to put something on their web page about the registry, and maybe Gary could put something in an upcoming issue of _Toyota Trails_? Accessing the Registry ====================== The web page for the registry is currently password-protected. That web page is: http://www.hahaha.org/restricted/55_registry.html ...and the username/password is fj55er/araco. It's password-protected to keep your addresses out of the grimy mitts of spammers and salesmen. The problem is that a lot of you have forgotten the password, and don't visit the page. Even if you know the password, it's a pain to have to enter it everytime you go the page. Another problem is that potential registry members and other people in the Land Cruiser community are cut off from the registry until they know the (ooh!) Secret Password. I'm thinking maybe it's worth risking our collected addresses so that the registry is more accessible. FWIW, this list is rigged so that _only_ subscribers can post to it. What do you think about making the web page world-readable? Hey, check your listing on the Registry's web page. If it's not up-to-date or missing data, let me know and I'll update it. Goals ===== Some things the registry could use: A good introductory form letter that gets sent to new members, a complete and useful FJ55 FAQ, including a listing of common problems/solutions, and a web home. Some things we could collectively achieve: New parts offerings (think rubber moldings, bucket seat mounts, power steering kits,) better pricing, a really cool sticker. What else? Good Springs, Cheap! ==================== If your springs are sagging and your pig is wallowing, you'll like this: There's a company in Australia that makes high-quality springs & shackles for FJ55s, and their springs are now _very_ affordable. You might've heard me talk about GT Suspension on the landcruisers@tlca.org list. I originally heard about them when I called ARB USA in Seattle and talked to Buddy about spring options for FJ55s. I was hoping I could make their Old Man Emu system work on my truck. They referred me to Josh Browne at GT Suspension in Australis, and spoke highly of GT's quality gear. I first talked to Josh about his company and his gear last summer. The springs he makes provide a 2" lift, and are built for the same kind of loaded backcountry travel as the OME stuff. He says his philosophy is to provide the same lift for the same load rating with one less leaf than OME. They adjust for driver's-side lean. I called Josh again a few days ago and found out that Man-A-Fre has stopped distributing his FJ55 springs here in the states, at the same time that they've announced they'll be selling FJ55 springs of their own making. This leaves Josh without a U.S. distributor, which means he can sell us his products literally at wholesale pricing. Here's a price breakdown for his FJ55 suspension gear, in AUS and US dollars: AUS US 8-leaf front spring $192.00 $128.64 8-leaf rear spring $220.00 $147.40 Urethane bushes $2.70 $1.81 Rear & front shackles non-greasable $22.00 $14.74 greasable $39.00 $26.13 Rear & front fixed pins non-greasable $15.00 $10.05 greasable $23.00 $15.41 U-bolts $9.00 $6.03 Those are good prices! What's not including is shipping. Any orders for the states will need to come via container ship (by sea). Josh thinks shipping would be about US$2/kilo. That's not insignificant, but the springs would still be cheap with shipping figured in. Josh said he could probably offer better pricing if we put together a group order. So lets talk about it. I'm definitely getting some springs & shackles from him. You can read a fax I got from Josh last summer about his springs: http://www.hahaha.org/landcrusher/gt_suspension_fax.txt Note that some information has changed since then, specifically his arrangement with Man-A-Fre. Josh still supplies Man-A-Fre with several other GT products. It's just the FJ55 suspension gear that no longer goes through them. Josh has offered to send me more information this week. I'm asking for pictures, product literature, etc. Whatever I get (including shipping information), I'll put it on my web page. (see my signature) BTW, the above prices are based on a figure of US$0.67/AUS$1.00. You can see the trend for the exchange rate at: http://dynexcorp.com/charts/a$week.htm If we do put a group order together, we should hope for a beneficial rate. Right now the U.S. dollar is strong against the Aussie dollar. Sorry to make such a lengthy post! morgan 4/76 CA FJ55, TLCA 5973, Oakland, CA P.S. Remember: The ironpigs@lists.best.com list is for FJ55-specific information, and is not intended to be a general forum for Land Cruiser discussion. That's what the landcruisers@tlca.org list is for. Gary Bjork does a great job providing the online Cruiser community a home, and we don't need another. -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: GT Suspension followup From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 28 Mar 1998 09:48:40 -0800 Got two more faxes from Josh. First one was about a higher-lift setup for 40s. Sounds a bit like a 4" Skyjacker or something. Dunno much about that stuff. Responded to his fax, asked him if that kit was available for FJ55s, got this: 28-3-98 To: Morgan Fletcher From: Josh Browne Dear Morgan, Thanks for your fax of 25 March. The 40 series L/C is one of the most popular play machines here. V8 transplants and 33" or 35" tyres are common and the vehicles are used for mud racing or serious off-roading. The 55 series is just a get around vehicle so we have never had a need to raise them more than 1-1/2" to 2" above standard height. It is unlikely that a full-on engineering exercise for a 3" or 4" lift could be justified. The spring design we use follows the conventions of slightly stronger than original springs. This is pretty much standard practise in the industry. I have toyed with the idea of a 7 leaf design with higher free camber to improve ride quality and articulation and there is no reason why it wouldn't work. It would still only be 1-1/2" ro 2" above standard. It is important to recognise that the stronger the spring the more difficult it is to achieve full articulation. Our last shipment to the US weight 230kg and cost AUS$275.00. [US$184.25 -morgan] Charges at your end are unknown however you could find out by contacting O'Niel & Whitaker Inc. in Rancho Dominguez, CA. A set of 4 springs weighs 90kg so 4 sets should cost AUS$350.00 maximum [US$234.50] in sea freight & charges. We will obtain a firm quote when we know what is required. Our shackles are standard length and 33" tyres will fit but 10-1/2" wide tyres rub inside the mudguard sometimes. We could make longer shackles but it would take a few weeks to organize. Shackles weigh less than 1kg each. I hope this helps. Regards, Josh Shipping doesn't look so bad. Shipping varies from $1.25/kg to $1.03/kg. Back to the original calculations, a set of springs and greasable shackles work out to be US$633.00 Shipping is 95kg say, so that makes it US$751.75 ($1.24/kg). It's still near $1000.00 with shocks & bushings figured in. Theoretically it's a bit cheaper to order a couple sets at the same time and get better shipping. Specter's (& MAF's alleged) FJ55 springs are starting to sound appealing again... I'll call O'Niel & Whitaker (sp?) on Monday for a more thorough shipping quote. What do you think of his assessment about lifting the "get around" FJ55 more than two inches? morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r 4/76 FJ55, TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Join the FJ55 registry. http://www.hahaha.org/landcrusher/registry.html << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. http://www.hahaha.org << Date: 17 Feb 1998 06:33:46 -0800 From: Morgan Fletcher Subject: FJ55 SPRINGS To: LandCruisers@tlca.org fergus@wavefront.com writes: > I need info on the availabilty of '55 springs.I've seen Spector's and I > wonder who makes them?How 'bout those adustable helper springs(my driver > side sags)?So if any body has any thoughts/experience on these please > respond directly or on the list. The Specter springs are on sale this month for US$175 each, US$700 before shipping & state tax. I've heard that the Specter springs are made by Ironman (Australia), but that's just a rumor. Ironman does make an FJ55 spring. Perhaps one of our brethren from the antipodes would be willing to comment (again) on Ironman springs? Anyone care to comment on the SOR HD wagon springs? GT Suspension makes an FJ55 spring. They are also an Australian company. Here's the info I've got for them: Josh Browne - GT Suspension Phone: (03) 376 0777 Fax: (03) 376 4158 Address: A.C.N. 006 619 585 137 Mt. Alexander Road P.O. Box 271, FLEMINGTON, Australia 3031 notes: They make springs & shocks for Land Cruisers, including FJ55s. Josh used to work at Old Man Emu, designing suspension components. Now he's at this new suspension company. I talked to him sometime last year a couple of times. Really nice guy, seems to be very much a cruiserhead. He told me that Man-A-Fre sells the GT springs here in the states. I just called MAF this morning and talked to "John", and he said he hadn't heard of GT Suspension, and that the FJ55 springs they sell are their own design. I told him I'd talked to GT, and that GT told me MAF was their US distributor. He said, "That may be." Then I was put on hold, then it was; "We can get you the GT springs; we have to order them from Australia, it takes a month and they cost US$300/per." He said MAF is coming out with a spring "of their own design" for FJ55s, which will be available for sale in about a month, and will cost "less". He said it's being made by the same outfit that makes their FJ40 springs, but he wouldn't tell me more. He said, "It's made in the U.S." Hm. Anyone care to comment on the MAF FJ40 springs? You can have custom springs made, and that's what I'm doing. I plan on ordering a set from National Spring toward the end of this month. They'll be US$1000, but they'll be good, and they'll be built to my spec. I can get the lift I want, the load rating I want, the lean corrected and I'll be getting springs with a great reputation for quality. From what I've read on this list so far, the SOR HD Wagon springs aren't great. I haven't followed discussion of MAF springs because I don't have a 40 or a 60/62. You can always re-arch your springs. I believe that would be the cheapest route, at ~US$350 if you do the spring removal/installation yourself. Re-arched springs will sag, and the consensus on the list seems to be that they sag too fast, and it's better to put new springs on unless the rearch is really cheap. There's one subscriber (Is it you, Nigel?) that has had great luck with re-arching. He says it's important to have it done by a good spring shop, and to have it done "hot". Sorry if I'm misquoting, but my notes are at home. A local Cruiser guru ("Mudrack" (Gary Cardom), in Sonoma) recommended a spring shop in Sacramento that does good re-arches. The shop is: Shan, Cory - Hanley's Phone: (916) 451-9126 Address: 8160 Suite F 14th Ave. Sacramento, CA 95826 notes: They are spring shop. Re-arch using "good" method (blacksmith, not heat or press). Mudrack is a re-arch proponent. He had Hanley's re-arch the springs on his FJ45, and he's done the Rubicon twice since then. He claims no sag. I don't know what difference the fact that an FJ45 springpack has quite a bit more leaves makes. Anyway, that's my braindump. morgan 4/76 FJ55, TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 06:02:16 +0800 From: "Nigel Buxton" Subject: Ironman Springs To: - -----Original Message----- From: Henry Cubillan >I was under the impression that the Ironman suspension system used in >Australia had McCoy springs, which are made in Canada and against which >we have been warned repeatedly by several Canadian cruiserheads. They >also use Gabriel shocks (made in the USA), so I doubt this is really a >performance system. I have heard nothing good about Ironman springs. Gabriel shocks - they are marketed here as Aussie Ryders. How do they compare against the Koni, Bilstein and OME shockies?? Best wishes, Nigel Kalamunda Western Australia nbuxton@ozemail.com.au If your heart is in the right place, so is your head! To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: the OTHER suspension option... From: Lance Williams Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:17:40 -0500 I like to wheel my 55 pretty hard and in order to fit the 35's I will need more than the 1 1/2 to 2 inches of lift I would get from the GT setup. So I have done some price checking on the cost of parts for a Springover. This list is not intended to be complete, as your needs may differ from mine, etc., etc., but for those of you with the skills and fabrication experience to do the job, here's some numbers: custom front axle housing $370 (includes: axle housing with ball joint cut and turned to correct steering geometry, new spring mounts, new shock mounts, axle truss and core charge of $100-included in above price. check Fabtech's website for more details http://www.shopokanagan.com/fabtech/page8.htm ) front axle rebuild kit $340 (this includes knuckle reseal kit, knuckle bearings, front axle seals, front inner bearings, front outter bearings and 3rd member gasket. you may not need all of these, but I figured I'd do it all anyway) custom welded double steering arm $45 (I had mine done by a professional welder and it has held up perfectly after years of abuse. Some people advise against welding a steering component, we won't get into that now but if you want you can buy a cast double steering arm for around $250 I think.) set of polyurethane spring bushings $50 set of stiff shocks $120 rear spring perch (two) $10 lengthen driveshaft $120 longer brake lines $30 So in parts I am looking at around $1100. This is about what we spent on an FJ40 I did last year. (I think the final tally was more like $1200, complete) I plan to spend a little more, but that includes a front sway bar, f/r disconnects for the sway bars, and a ladder bar in the rear. Remember, this is just some pricing info for those considering the swap. There is a lot more to this conversion than just parts. It is infinitely more complicated than just swapping springs. But you get out of it what you put into it. I'm hoping this helps out some of you who are trying to compare the costs of various suspension options. Lance Williams Alexandria, VA 77 fj 55 On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Lance Williams wrote: > custom front axle housing $370 I would have this done locally. You will save considerable cash. Don't forget about relocating drain plug, or get creative with filling diff. > front axle rebuild kit $340 Very high prices. Here's what I found: Gasket kit = $25 (MAF) Knuckle bearings = $15x4 = $60 (MAF) Wheel bearings = $25x2 + $20x2 = $90 (MAF) axle seals = $5x2 = $10 (MAF) hub seals = ?, but no more than $10 3rd member gasket = $5 tube of Permatex. Total = $200 + tax Eric Eric Madsen [eric@pnc.com] _____ Customer Support Engineer, Pacific Numerix Corporation |]__|_|__ 7333 E. Doubletree Ranch Rd Ste 280 Scottsdale AZ USA 85258 |/_\|_/ _| Phone: 602-483-6800 | Fax: 602-483-8526 | Web: www.pnc.com (_) (_) Land Cruisers: 57 FJ25, 61 FJ25(V8, SM465, NP205) & 86 FJ60 TLCA#3728 To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: the OTHER suspension option... From: Lance Williams Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:24:43 -0500 >>>>Eric wrote: Very high Prices... >>>> Yeah, the prices I posted are on toyota parts, not counting any discounts. Definately not the least expensive way to go. >>>> then he wrote: > custom front axle housing - I would have this done locally. You will save considerable cash. Don't forget about relocating drain plug, or get creative with filling diff. >>>> Like what? $100 to have it done? Have you ever priced it? This is a pretty serious modification. Aren't you concerned that it might not be done correctly? I really appreciate your advice. Now, let me play devil's advocate for a second and you can tell me what you think: When I looked into this a few years back the general concensus was that it was better to have someone like Fabtech or Wardens do it for you because they have the jig set up and have experience with cutting and welding cruiser axles. The cost of the modified axle housing with the ends turned the correct amount, spring perches removed and new ones put in place, shock mounts removed and new ones in place, and oil drain plug moved is only $270. (core and truss charge is $100) At $50/hr that roughly equates to about 5 hours labor in the hands of a competent welder. If your local welder has never done this before and has to set up a jig to cut and turn the axle, then measure and move all the mounts and drill and tap a new drain hole, can it be done in less than 5 hours? Plus you would need to provide the core in advance. But there would be no shipping fees. Eric - what do you think? Lance Williams Alexandria, VA 77 fj 55 [Bookmark Link][Original] To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: the OTHER suspension option... From: Cruiserman Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:39:29 -0700 (MST) In-reply-to: <199803301928.LAA05406@lists1.best.com> > Yeah, the prices I posted are on toyota parts, not counting any > discounts. Definately not the least expensive way to go. The Man-A-Fre prices are without discount as well, and they are a considerable savings over regular Toy dealer prices. > Like what? $100 to have it done? Have you ever priced it? This > is a pretty serious modification. Aren't you concerned that it might > not be done correctly? I really appreciate your advice. Dunno, but the big factor for me was shipping the parts from the great white north to Phoenix, but FabTech seemed to have their $hit in order. I would go that route if I didn't have someone local who knew what they were doing. I have not discussed actual costs, but I have talked with Dave Gore at Renegade Fabrications who definitely knows Cruisers. I think your way is good in that you are saving money on the double knuckle arm (considerable money BTW). You are probably right about the FAX mods in that they amount would be a wash versus locally done, but shipping is a killer. > When I looked into this a few years back the general concensus was > that it was better to have someone like Fabtech or Wardens do it Obviously both shops know what they are doing with SO's. It depends on if you want a "kit" type approach, or you want to try to save some money and have it done locally. > Eric - what do you think? I have considered a SO, but not gone that way yet due to costs. Had I the money, I would do it, and I would more than likely have it done locally. But, if I were near FabTech, I would use at least part of their solution. Eric Eric Madsen [eric@pnc.com] _____ Customer Support Engineer, Pacific Numerix Corporation |]__|_|__ 7333 E. Doubletree Ranch Rd Ste 280 Scottsdale AZ USA 85258 |/_\|_/ _| Phone: 602-483-6800 | Fax: 602-483-8526 | Web: www.pnc.com (_) (_) Land Cruisers: 57 FJ25, 61 FJ25(V8, SM465, NP205) & 86 FJ60 TLCA#3728 : ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: GT Suspension followup From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 30 Mar 1998 14:41:25 -0800 In-reply-to: fergus@wavefront.com's message of "Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:22:02 -0600" References: <199803282219.OAA02848@lists1.best.com> fergus@wavefront.com (todd haug) writes: > Hey Morgan- I know somebody that I can call about freight.I'll try to > reach him this week. Yeah! If he can find us a better deal, that'd be excellent. > It sounds like Josh can't justify the planning/engineering/machining > expense for something he sees as not marketable. Just so it's clear - there is no 4" lift for the FJ55 from GT. > Not that its not possible:) Oh, I agree. The 4" lift for FJ55s is a valid idea with no profitable execution. I only asked him about it as a way of asking "Why are you sending me FJ40 suspension info?" If I had an FJ40, I'm sure it would be interesting. :) BTW, I've recently seen a sprung-over FJ55. If I wanted that kind of room, that's the way I'd go. I'm interested in the GT 2" lift, and that's the suspension I hope to put on my FJ55. > I'm still interested in more info/references.It sounds like they have > been producing stuff for the '55 for a while, not just jumping on the '55 > band wagon! Yeah, they have a valid product. I asked Josh for references, but I haven't gotten a response yet. I'll do my best to find some independent review of the springs and share it with the list. morgan P.S. Sorry about "Mike's" incessant unsubscribe requests to the list. I let the dog out. :) -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: GT Suspension followup and water in exhaust From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:04:15 -0800 In-reply-to: Taro Nobusawa's message of "Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:17:29 -0800" References: <199803291242.EAA21051@lists1.best.com> <199803301928.LAA05151@lists1.best.com> Taro Nobusawa writes: > My 55 project is almost disassembled. I definitely will be in the market > for new springs. The PO did a pretty bad job adding leaves to the rear > spring pack, (one out of order, smaller spring on top of bigger!) it's > pretty screwed up. I wanted to stay with stock height, but I guess I > could live with the 1.5-2". Does he have a set that also compensates for > a lighter V-8 conversion? Sounds pretty interesting, however I live in > Hawaii, so it would not make much sense to have them shipped to the > continent for me. He does talk about making heavier and lighter springs for the FJ55 as needed, but with a possible delay. I'd say call him. You definitely wouldn't want to be in a group shipment situation, but maybe (?) it would be cheaper to Hawaii. I'll split a round-trip courier ticket with you though. :) His number is (03) 376 0777. That's in Flemington, Victoria, Australia. I have the sequence of numbers I have to dial written down at work. If you want to get through, consider having an international operator (00) help you. morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: the OTHER suspension option... From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:17:42 -0800 In-reply-to: Lance Williams's message of "Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:17:40 -0500" References: <199803301736.JAA17953@lists1.best.com> Lance, talk to Gary Kardum about sprung-over FJ55s. He's done several, and he really knows what he's doing. His e-mail address is mudrak@vom.com. I have to scan some pics of his sprung-over FJ55 with a Mercedes 190 sedan body (!!!) on the Rubicon. Man oh man. morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: MAF FJ55 springs From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:23:27 -0800 Just talked to Jeff at MAF. Springs should be there "any day", and will be $145 a pop. More options, good. (is how I feel) morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: the OTHER suspension option... From: Joe_W_Somerville@atlanticmutual.com Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:42:13 -0800 Location: Orange Department: Loss Control Lance I did the springover conversion myself excluding the front axle cut / turn / weld, and you are correct in the fact that this should be done by a professional with experience in this modification (the actual cutting & welding are not difficult, just maintaining the correct angular geometery). You should not be charged a lot of money to remove / install new spring perches and shock mounts. If I remember correctly, there is a company in Colorado that also has a jig for turning the front axle housing, which is closer to you then Warden's, but I don't know where Fabtech is located. I don't understand the need to change the drain hole plugs location, except on the rear axle cover; however, the difference is minimal with the factory requiring around 2.6 quarts and without the plug you can use 2.3 quarts (I ran like this for a year before I had the time to move the plug higher), and have had no problems with the ARB. Joe Re: GT springs for the FJ55 To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: GT springs for the FJ55 From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 06 Jun 1998 20:38:45 -0700 Cc: morgan@hahaha.org Delivery-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 21:41:45 -0700 In-Reply-To: Joe_W_Somerville@atlanticmutual.com's message of "Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:33:44 -0700" References: <199806041521.IAA00735@lists1.best.com> Xref: morgan.vip ironpigs:242 Josh is sitting here, and we've gone through some of the mail generated about GT Suspension springs for the FJ55, and suspension in general. Throughout most of this mail, I'm typing what Josh has to say. Some comments are mine. He's lent me some great pictures of GT Suspension stuff in action, which I'll scan and put up on a web page soon. Joe, your mail is perhaps a good place for some general questions about the springs and the company to be addressed. Here's what Josh has to say: Joe_W_Somerville@atlanticmutual.com writes: > I would be interested in the springs / shackles from GT. Shipping should > really not be a question, since they can ship by sea, and offload within > 90 days. Josh has an industry contact here in the states that should be able to help with shipping, especially WRT getting through customs. He should have that information by the end of next week. (roughly 6/20) > Try to talk to him regarding the method on how they manufacture the spring > packs. > > I'm assuming they receive the steel --> grade / ASTME # ---->, cut the > steel into required sizes. They must then heat treat the steel at the same > time bending the steel into the single steel spring --> quenching bath to > cool the steel springs ( how fast does he cool the springs), does he shot > peen every spring leaf or only the wrap springs, installs the graphite - > greasable pads, and assembles the spring pack. Each leaf is individually formed, like other manufacturers, but they're cold formed. Because they're cold formed, there's no need for shot peening, and they're tempered after forming. The cooling is part of the tempering process, and they're cooled naturally, not quenched. The result has been durability equal to or better than Old Man Emu and anything else that's available in Australia. They don't use inter-leaf liners except in a couple of instances, because they don't contribute anything to the function of the spring. They just look good. (I know I am going to get some responses to this!) The inter-leave liners do have some consequence. He says he's traveled all over the world, training people on four-wheel drive suspension. Inter-leaf liners will make a spring feel softer (it will deflect more easily) however most of the GT Suspension springs are made with one less leaf than Old Man Emu, and therefore they're softer anyway. If they put inter-leaf liners in their springs, they'd be too soft. The application where they add those liners are to J**p Cherokee Sport and to the heavy-duty 75 series rear, because it looks good and it helps with the very heavy duty rear springs on the 75. The springs are made from BHP (Broken Hill Proprietary) steel - a manufacturer of steel, the same as OME. It's different from USS or Japanese steel, significantly in its suppleness. Part of the reason for OME's reknown is the fact that it's made out of more supple steel. The original owner of OME - before ARB bought the business - said it was more "sproongier" than Japanese steel. The springs are made with progressive camber, which is the right way to make springs. Springs without progressive camber break. Progressive camber means a different curvature in each leaf, to a set formula. There's a known way of doing progressive camber, and if it's done wrong the springs break. The GT Suspension springs don't have the "flat axle seat area", which the OME's have, because it's a gimmick. The claim is that the flat spot increases the life of the spring, due to reduced stress - MAF incorrectly reports the flat spot is to ensure the proper caster angle - but "99.99% of all of the springs in the world" don't have a flat spot. The Toyota springs don't have it, and they're plenty durable. As far as lift goes, they prefer to lift vehicles 1-1/2" over stock height, but for "really serious" use, they engineer 2"-3" solutions... or whatever the customer wants, ultimately. The aim always is to avoid modifying the vehicle while providing good suspension. They strive to improve the suspension and add lift without driveline, brakeline or other modifications to the vehicle. He says that he can provide FJ55 springs in either a 2" or 3" lift, depending on what we want. He's not sure if an FJ55 can be lifted 3" over stock without modifications. For a point of reference, OME suspension on 40s and 60s is 2-1/2" over stock height, and no modifications are needed. The springsets they made for Man-A-Fre were 3" lifts, but they never heard back from MAF about the springs one way or another - just that MAF was now selling a spring of similar design they had made in Canada. So, do _any_ of you know of any the GT/MAF springs on FJ55s? How do they work? Joe, can you look into that? (since you're near MAF) In the absence of any feedback on the two 3" kits sent to MAF, they'd have to fit a 3" kit to a vehicle in Australia and determine if it's feasible. There's one of you lucky blokes in Victoria, near GT. I'll try to get you two in touch. Josh will also contact with an Australian running a 2" GT suspension on an FJ55 to see how another inch might fit. Once he knows if 3" is possible, it'd be up to use to decide which springset best suits our needs. He could also make individual springsets in different configurations for different loads. If a vehicle has a light V8 or a heavy winch + bull bar, he can make a springset for that vehicle. It will take about two weeks to test a 3" lift for fit. After that he'll know if it will work. > What kind of testing have they completed on their manufactured spring > packs. If they haven't manufactured any "number" of '55 packs, are they > the same responsiveness as the other products --> or is it the same steel > used. Josh says "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." In the four years he's been at GT, he's had two failures total - one on a 40 and one on a 45. That's out of a couple of thousand springsets in use. Josh is manager of GT Suspension, and he designs the four-wheel drive suspensions. The company's been in business for 16 years, and he's been there for four. He was the product manager for Old Man Emu for six years. Prior to that he was the Purchasing Manager at Nissan Parts for many years. (That job involved the development for all of their accessories, including design of air conditioning, which was considered an accessory at Nissan.) There are strict government-mandated guidelines for suspension modifications in Australia, and GT meets all of those requirements. If they do something out of the ordinary (like the freaky 80-series suspension mods in the pictures I'm scanning), they are subject to an engineer's certificate for the car to be registerable. These engineer's certificates are issued by independent automotive engineers. The factory's been in operation for almost fifty years. They've established themselves in the Australian market as suspension specialists. They're the only people who make these oddball springs. For instance, they are the only people in the world who make a stricly recreational spring for the Toyota Hilux and the 75 series Land Cruiser. Other aftermarket springs for those vehicles are compromise springs, in that they have to cope with load-carrying. (see page ___) The springs can be loaded with that much weight, but they'll sit down at the rear. The difference is in the free camber of the two stages in the spring. The second stage are helper leaves under the main leaves. They supply some of the heaviest springs in Australia. They make spring for a special-contract FJ45 trayback that carries 3.5 tons on the rear axle. (9 leaves + three helpers) Six spring manufacturers in Australia attempted to make springs for this vehicle, without success - the springs weren't lasting more than three months. The GT springs have been on for 2-1/2 years now. They've made custom springs for 1926 Chevy truck, a 1912 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud and a 1928 Vauxhall. For restorations, they make the springs as close as possible in form and function like the original springs. The 1926 Chevrolet truck was produced without shock absorbers. It had some very clever rebound leaves in the spring pack. They managed to duplicate the rebound springs on the new pack. He says the challenge in duplicating old technology is that there's sometimes useful applications for modern spring work. HISTORICAL FOOTNOTE The purpose of rebound leaves was to keep the relatively soft springs from bouncing. A single-acting shock absorber was the first to come along, and it kept upward rebound from occuring. Then compression-damping and dual-action shock absorbers ensued. Josh believes that modern shock technology came out of Belgium, due to the roads there being made out of "pave" or small cobblestones that rattled the hell out of the "horseless carriages". ABOUT SHOCKS Preface: I (Morgan) have heard the conventional wisdom on the landcruisers@tlca.org list about shocks. Seems most go for Rancho 9000s, some that can afford it use OME (with OME springs), a few have Deutsch Tech shocks. Some unlucky few have Gabriels. Josh previously recommended Black Diamonds to me, referencing some part numbers that would work on a 2"-over-stock FJ55 (see http://www.hahaha.org/landcrusher/gt_suspension_fax.txt) I asked Josh about shocks, and he has to say... For the FJ55 series, his opinion is that the best shock available is the OME at the moment. There's an expectation that Black Diamond will have a shock absorber out very soon that will be every bit as good as OME or better. The Black Diamond XT range of shock absorbers (currently available) is physically larger than OME. When you've sorted through all of the bullshit that's published about shock absorbers, just remember that the most important feature of the shock absorber is the amount of oil it contains and bigger is better. Koni shock absorbers (not available for the FJ55 at this stage) are in GT's view the best shock absorber in the world for four-wheel drives, provided that the correct shock absorber is selected for the application. Koni makes several types of shock absorbers. The one that is favored by GT is a hydraulic. The quality is such that it will outperform and outlast any other hydraulic or low-pressure gas shock absorber by a long way. It's rebuildable, and Josh has seen them come in for rebuilding after twenty years of use. OTHER AUSSIE PARTS Josh resells various rebuild kits for the Land Cruiser, made of high-quality aftermarket parts. Those could be part of a shipment, at wholesale prices as well. He's given me a list of kits he sells. Additionally, he can get used Land Cruisers parts from three dismantlers local to him, including things like PTO boxes and winches through the late model cruisers, 16" split rims, distributors, transmissions, full-floater axles. In short, all the goodies. I'll get a list of these goodies from you, pass the list on to him, he'll tell me what his prices would be, and we'll see if we want to include some in the first shipment. Well, I've bugged Josh all day about suspension. I encourage you to ask lots of questions in response. He doesn't use e-mail, but via faxes we can get a speedy response to questions on this list. The US/Australian exchange rate is at a significantly good point for those of us here in the states, and we should get a first deal going ASAP. morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r 4/76 FJ55, TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Join the FJ55 registry. http://www.hahaha.org/landcrusher/registry.html << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. http://www.hahaha.org << Re: GT Springs etc. To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Subject: Re: GT Springs etc. From: Morgan Fletcher Date: 07 Jun 1998 10:55:55 -0700 BestServHost: lists.best.com Delivery-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 11:56:58 -0700 In-Reply-To: David's message of "Sun, 07 Jun 1998 00:46:06 -0700" References: <199806070747.AAA04831@lists1.best.com> Reply-To: ironpigs@lists.best.com Sender: ironpigs-errors@lists.best.com Xref: morgan.vip ironpigs:245 David writes: > I have a question. I would really love to use the GT springs. > But what is it going to cost us? For a breakdown of the GT suspension components for FJ55s, see this web page: http://www.hahaha.org/landcrusher/tech.html Note that the US prices on the right are based on the exchange rate as of March something or other. Since the exchange rate has improved for the US dollar recently, those prices have changed since! For instance, when I made that web page, the front springs worked out to be $128.64. As of this morning, they'd be $117.12 a piece. Josh said he got dinged at the airport for US$.51 for every Australian dollar he brought. > And what If I can not afford to buy all the springs at once during the > shipment order? They way I think it will work is we'll have a first order, where a few springsets and maybe some other goodies come across. If we're all happy with that gear, I imagine a second or third (...) shipment would follow. Since the prices are all wholesale and no one on this side of the pacific is making a profit, this seems like a stable arrangement. Josh thinks this bears mentioning: Raising only the front or rear 3" over stock would cause mechanical problems and could be unsafe. (Morgan) I don't imagine any of you would want to rake or nose-up your 55 3" over stock! > Also what front and rear diffs do they have that work best for the FJ55 > from Australia? You mean traction control devices? He doesn't think there are any different ones in Australia we don't have. All the standard ones would work ARB locker, lock-rite, Auburn LSD, etc. > The Floaters work? What would I get from using the floater axles? I don't understand all the differences between full-floater front axles and what's on there stock - maybe Mark Whatley can help here - but basically full-floaters carry more weight and are stronger. Josh will find out about availability of used full-floater axles when he gets back. That and any other gear we'd like to bring in. > Can I have the axles and parts shipped minus the housing? and will they > just bolt into the housing I have now? That I don't know, but Josh says probably yes, yes and yes. I'm sure someone on this list knows the answer. > Also what does he think of tire size with the GT lift? I want to run the > 33x9.50x15 on my 55. Does he think these would work ok or is there a > better tire size he thinks would work better? I dont have power steering > so I dont want them to wide. My 31x10.50x15's run pretty good but they > are hard to turn at times. And ti also rains here allot and I have > hydroplaned before. I hear the 33x9's dont do that and they work well in > the mud. Also does the lift he speaks of require any mods in the front or > rear drive shafts? Do we have enough for when the rigs are under > articulation? Pretty much any width on a 33" would be fine with either 2" or 3" over stock lift. With the 12.5" widths you might still need a body lift as well, to prevent rubbing inside the fender. Josh will know if it's an issue with the 3" lift as soon as he can try it. Josh says he wouldn't recommend going over 33". He doesn't think you need big tires. One thing I forgot to mention is that the famous OME truck seen flying through the air in the ARB Old Man Emu ads is Josh's personal truck. (I'll scan some pics of it - now with GT Suspension badging - and put it on a web page.) He runs 32/10.5R16 tires, and they've been everywhere. He used to run 31/10.5R15 until all of the "clowns with 32s and 33s" dug the trenches so deep he was hung up on the spring U-bolt plates. (They're called "fish plates" in Australia.) He's a fan of BFGoodrich All Terrains. Taking Josh to the airport, morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r 4/76 FJ55, TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Join the FJ55 registry. http://www.hahaha.org/landcrusher/registry.html << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. http://www.hahaha.org << Date: 19 Mar 1998 14:44:26 -0800 From: Morgan Fletcher Subject: FJ55 springs To: LandCruisers@tlca.org fergus@wavefront.com writes: > Have you or anyone else determined if the GT springs will work on > USA 55's? They expressly make (made?) springs (and anti-sway bars, and shocks) for the FJ55. I say "made" because Man-A-Fre has stopped distributing them, and I can't get through on the phone number in Australia I had for them. Will try calling ARB in Seattle, and sending a note to the postal address I've got for GT. > And how much are they anyways? Last year I got a quote of ~US$1000 for a set of GT springs made for the FJ55. Now, who knows? You can see what I know of them if you go to http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/tlcal/lcml_search.html and search for "GT Suspension". (The search engine is case-sensitive.) morgan - -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << Date: 19 Mar 1998 17:22:58 -0800 From: Morgan Fletcher Subject: GT Suspension (FJ55 springs) To: landcruisers@tlca.org Just called Josh Browne at GT suspension (Australia) again, about suspension options for FJ55s. He was quite eager to talk about Land Cruisers and suspension. His phone number from the states: 011-61-39-376-0777. The deal is, Man-A-Fre sells several items that GT makes, and for a while they sold GT's FJ55 springs. A fellow Australian was just in Los Angeles, where he visited MAF. Told Josh that MAF had given the GT FJ55 springs to a company in Canada for copying! So the new MAF FJ55 springs are copies of the GT springs. Josh said he just found out yesterday that MAF is not distributing his company's springs any more. He says they'll continue to do business, but he's frustrated with them. He's visiting them in June. I think I'll try to get him out for a wheeling trip somewhere in the Southland. He said he'd be willing to sell springs to individuals here, since there's no longer a distributor. He said he'd sell front FJ55 springs for AUS$245 (US$164) and rear springs for AUS$266 (US$178). If we were to make a group order he could sell them for less. (hint!) He's going to figure out shipping rates and let me know what they would be. I'll need to arrange to have the springs cleared with a customs agent here. I'm not sure what shipping and other fees would come to, but this looks like a good price for springs on par with OME for the FJ55 - - cheaper than National Spring. The GT springs for the FJ55 raise the truck 2" over stock. The front springs are sized differently to account for lean, so that the truck again rides level. He says durability for GT springs has been as good or better than OME. He says the philosophy at GT is to carry the same load at the same height as OME with one less leaf. This makes for a more comfortable ride. He's going to fax me the part numbers for the OME and Black Diamond shocks on Monday along with a lot more information about GT stuff for the FJ55. He said he has an FJ55 greasable shackle, designed for use with his springs. I'll follow up with more information when I get his fax on Monday, and I'll put all the info up on a web page. morgan 4/76 CA FJ55, TLCA 5973, Oakland, CA - -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> M o r g a n F l e t c h e r http://www.hahaha.org << >> Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas. morgan@hahaha.org << To: landcruisers@tlca.org Copies to: JOSHANDDAZZA@bigpond.com Subject: Re: OME alternatives From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 15 Dec 1999 13:31:25 -0800 Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org "Marc Czapla" writes: > Okay, we all know that OME suspension kits are the best, but what about > those of us who can't afford the 1800 bill? Even the smokey mountain kit is > 1200! Are there any solutions to a rough riding FJ60 that might be a bit more > reasonable? The TLC site, states that their rebuilds include stock springs > and Monroe Gas Matic shocks. How does this set up work on the road? As my > main priority at this point is to have a FJ60 that rides nicely on the paved > roads, I am not concerned about off-road performance (this will change when my > wallet size increases). What do you guys think? I have the Pinnacle Engineering Suspension for the FJ55, advertised as a 4" lift. I like it off-road, but to be honest it's kinda harsh so far on-road. (I run 33x12.4 generic AT tires at 35psi.) I've driven Jackie Kardum's (Mudrak's wife's) FJ60 with OME, and it's much smoother on-road. The Pinnacle suspension is available for FJ60/FJ62. One difference between the OME springs and the Pinnacle springs are the clamps - OME clamps are U-shaped and open on top, with limiter pins. The Pinnacles are closed. I'm going to try opening them up myself. The Pinnacle spring leaves look thicker than OME, although I'm not sure about that. Also, I'm not sure the Heckethorn Nitro shocks I got are right - I think they may be too short. I'm going to take off the shocks, measure for the right fit and if the Heckethorns are wrong I'll probably go with Rancho RS9000, and I'll play with the setting on-road. I spoke with Josh Browne - designer of the OME springs for ARB - about the steel in OME springs. He said that OME springs use steel from a plant in Australia that offers greater elasticity with plastic deformation. I think that's the right way to say it - they don't deform as easily as most spring steel, so they can make flexier spring packs that last a long time. He said their goal was to make a spring pack with as few leaves as possible that still carried the load well and flexed well. He said springs made in America and China and Japan used steel with less 'springiness', such that the packs and leaves have to be thicker and higher-count. Perhaps Pinnacle Engineering suspension could be made to be as comfortable on-road as OME, is what I'm getting at. It's certainly a good price! See http://www.jtoutfitters.com/Part/suspension/pe/index.html. morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher, list admin 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> http://lists.off-road.com/~tlca http://www.off-road.com/~morgan << To: landcruisers@tlca.org Subject: Re: OME alternatives From: Morgan Fletcher Date sent: 15 Dec 1999 13:52:22 -0800 Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Morgan Fletcher writes: > Australia that offers greater elasticity with plastic deformation. I should have written "...without plastic deformation." morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher, list admin 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> http://lists.off-road.com/~tlca http://www.off-road.com/~morgan << From: "J.O. Boltrek" To: Subject: Re: Ironman suspensions Date sent: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:30:44 -0800 Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Steiger To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:21 AM Subject: Ironman suspensions > I only just heard about this company yesterday....apparently they are > supposed to be quite good, and something like half the price of OME..and > from Australia as well. > > http://www.jsw.com.au/ > > > Has anyone on the list ever had any experiences with them? > > I just wrote them asking for some info and prices for my fj45 suspension, so I > guess we shall know more in the next few days. > > > > Jeff Steiger > Burnaby, B.C., Canada..Eh! > Coastal Cruisers > TLCA # 8042 Ironmans shocks come with 'made in the USA' stamped on them, and so I would believe they would be cheaper here. I had the Mine Duty suspension, 2.5" lift and it was FAR to stiff. The wheel travel went to about 20mm per wheel, and the ride could compress ones spine. I have heard that the soft ride springs are very similar to OME, but I do not know. There is a fellow on the list from Texas that has a Troopie with Ironman Springs on it. I also know that Specter sells them. I saw them while there last, and the quality looked as good as OME, but I am not a metalurgist. I was told by the fellow I got the springs from in Melbourne that the Ironman company was the earlier one, and that OME came from an employee leaving the Ironman company. They both get their metal from the same smelting plant (Broken Hill, or something like that) These springs are very popular in Australia, but the OME are concidered the Cadillac of the aftermarket suspension market. This is all that I know, and it is based on my experience only. I make not claims as to the factual validity of these claims, and I am certain others will find them to be flawed somewhere, so take it with a grain of salt! Joshua Boltrek TLCA#2344 83 FJ40 84 HJ47 From: "Kunz, Dan" To: Subject: [FJ55] RE: Intro/Bio Send reply to: fj55@tlca.org Date sent: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:24:45 -0400 4" Alcans ran 200 per spring when it came to brass tax. The rear is flexing like a beast but the front is still stiff due to the lack of winch and other running gear I was planning on adding (before I had my son). Pictures can be found in the later year trail rides at www.georgiacruisers.org and also on my own site at http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/d/c/dckunz/mods/ . Snorkle pics are here: http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/d/c/dckunz/images/pigpen/ Enjoy! I have made or helped design all the mods to my truck. 4x4 Customs in Snellville GA did all the work. Patrick (the owner/operator) is a hardcore cruiser head and also is the President of Georgia Cruisers. As for the long ride home, I hear that!!! I did 1600 miles in 2 days (23 hours) from Rapid City (bought the piggy from Park Owens, aka treasurer of the TLCA). Future updates to the pig include: SM465, winch, dual batteries, por/bedliner, new seats (maybe some leather BMW a la morgan hehe)....who knows! I like toys! Good to be on the list! From: "Seth Jacobsen" To: Subject: RE: [LCML] FJ55 rear springs wanted,Iron Man? Send reply to: landcruisers@tlca.org Date sent: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:35:47 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: landcruisers-admin@tlca.org [mailto:landcruisers-admin@tlca.org]On Behalf Of MD11Fr8Dog@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:50 AM To: landcruisers@tlca.org Subject: Re: [LCML] FJ55 rear springs wanted In a message dated 5/16/2002 12:03:58 AM Mountain Daylight Time, autotrend@mindspring.com writes: > > I can get you a pair of Iron Man springs, will have to wait a while for them > > to come in , have not recieved my first order yet. > > > > How are they compared to stock? and pri$e?? > > Thanks, > Sean O'Leary > Steamboat Springs, CO > 8/75 FJ-40 2F rebuild underway, SOA, PS conversion, 36X12.5 TSLs, frame > stripped down to tub only - awaiting SM420/3spd tcase and Super birfs. > 1/76 FJ-40 parts car > TLCA #11877 They are 2.5 inch of lift, very flexy , have the whole kit on my fj80 , real nice , Rear springs should run about $179.00 for both plus shipping to you. Seth Jacobsen Iron Man USA http://www.aros.net/~hceline/fj80/fj80onstump.jpg http://www.aros.net/~hceline/fj80/fj80stump2.jpg http://www.aros.net/~hceline/fj80/fj80rocklover.jpg http://www.aros.net/~hceline/fj80/fj80ditchcrossing.jpg From: "Josh Browne" To: Subject: [FJ55] FW: ol' 55 Send reply to: fj55@tlca.org Date sent: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:29:47 +1000 -----Original Message----- From: Josh Browne [mailto:jbrowne@ateco.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 13 June 2002 9:53 To: fj55@tica.org; w.j.markerink@a1.nl Subject: ol' 55 Hi guys! I've been having some problems with my home email and have just about given up trying to fix it. However, one of the emails did sneak through, dated 1st May, but I only saw it yesterday. My computer is currently with my Granddaughter who is using it for school work. I have been using my office computer for emails for the past 12 months. Morgan, Great to hear from you, how is the family? I have been extraordinarily busy for months. I left GT Suspension at the end of 2000 and have been doing some contract work for Ateco Equipment, the Warn distributor over here. Moved house recently to be a bit closer to my daughter and grand children. My 3 sons are now far from home, 1 in Darwin, 1 in Canberra and 1 in London, so it's pretty quiet around the house these days. I haven't gotten much further with the FJ28 although I now have a full set of workshop manuals so that will help as I get going. Up to the stage of stripping it down to remove the body (and throw away the Landrover series 1 roof). Now that I have found a place to store it and work on it I will have a chance to get serious. Money is the only issue. A lot of the mechanical stuff is no longer available so it a matter of keeping eyes peeled for second hand parts otherwise things have to made. It has most of the same mechanicals as FJ25 and there are a few of them around if you look hard enough. I have attached a pic, I finally figured out how to use a digital camera and to get a pic into the computer. I haven't figured out how to compress a pic yet but I will one day. Willem-Jan, The FJ55 is a bit of a nightmare because there aren't that many of them around over here. The people who own them don't want to spend the money on them. Dobinsons do make springs for them and I have found the best package is Dobinson springs and OME shocks. Dobinsons do have their own range of shocks now but I don't know if they have shocks for 55 or if they do whether or not they would be any good as far as ride and handling is concerned. Dobinsons have been very active in Europe in recent times, I will find out for you if they have a distributor in Holland and let you know. Not many companies have bothered to make shocks for 55 because they are low volume. Koni didn't, OME did, Gabriel did but I have the data on them and wouldn't even consider it, other than to keep the car on the road. Ironman and 4Way over here use the Gabriel product, re-badged, so don't go near them. One thing you could consider is to grab a pair of Koni 82-5020 (40 series front) and have someone remove the top eye and weld on a pin. The valving would be quit good and it is adjustable. On the rear use 60 series 82-2297. The Koni distributors in Australia do these mods for me from time to time. I don't know how Koni operate in Holland. I may be a bit late getting in touch but if I can help, don't hesitate to email me. I tried phoning Dobinsons this morning but no answer, phone may be down there has been some stormy weather on our East coast for the past few days. Kind Regards Josh Browne -- To: jbrowne@ateco.com.au Subject: (Fwd) Re: [DTLC] cruiser "comfort" Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:44:27 +0100 Hi Josh, Any comments on the parabolic/tapered spring concept mentioned below? Seems Rocky Mountain Springs in the USA has offered these for quite some time for Land Rovers, now also for 40-series. Thanx! PS: did you guys have the FJ55 only with electric-window/fold-down- lid, or also/only with ambulance doors? And ever seen the (claimed Japan-only) BJ55, '80-81? ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date sent: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:50:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [DTLC] cruiser "comfort" Send reply to: dtlc@helios.net On 13 Dec 2002 at 18:59, Dana Adams wrote: > > > One idea that's out there, but not available for cruisers are those > spring-loaded shackles. They allow the body weight to sit on the > light-duty springs that are integral with the shackles, and then > when the truck is weighted down, those small springs collapse, and > allow the weight to fall on the main spring pack. Apparently, very > comfortable over rough terrain. I've only seen them for American > trucks. Also only works on 'upside-down' spring hangers....those are under tension, not compression as on Cruisers. > Also, in the current TT there is an advertisement on page 43. Downey > Offroad, has a "cantilever spring shackle". These look pretty > interesting and they claim increased comfort. Anyone know about > these? > > > I wonder if you were to dismantle the spring packs, paint with Slip > Plate, add some UHDP strips, greasy shackle pins, and some sort of > spring-loaded shackle, how much of a difference it would make to the > bone-jarring ride of the shorty-forty? > > Probably better to chop an 80-series if you want comfort! A coil-over-shockabsorber would do a much better job, and has some configuration margin too, in terms of stiffness/progression. HT-Suspensions, a Dutch specialist (supplying rally teams worldwide) once offered a range which was also sold by Toyota Holland under full warranty. Had some as aftermarket on our 60....only problem was that *when* either the lower socket breaks, you have an interesting job of getting the coilspring out....it's under tension from start to finish (not travel-limited by the shock). And in the end, they are not good enough to compensate for an tired factory spring pack over the years....adding them to a stiff set of aftermarket leaf springs would be better for their own longlivity too....gaining both an extra inch or two of lift, and decreasing stiffness of the leafs.... US$200 each IIRC.... Btw, here a new 'star' on the Dutch spring firnament: http://www.parabolicsuspension.com/ Not quite sure where they differ from OME springs, but goes with OME shox.... Seems to have less lift than OME.... -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] ------- End of forwarded message ------- From: "Josh Browne" To: Subject: RE: (Fwd) Re: [DTLC] cruiser "comfort" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:41:00 +1100 Hi Willem-Jan, Thanks for the email. I would make the observation that parabolic springs are a great idea, comfortable and good off road articulation. They have been used quite successfully by OE manufacturers. Nissan use them on the front of C20 Vannette with a single transverse parabolic on the front, Daihatsu used 2 leaf parabolics on the front of one of the Rocky 4WDs, Landrover 101" had 2 leaf parabolics front and rear. There are 2 major disadvantages, 1. You have no flexibility in load arrangement. If you put them on a vehicle without a bar & winch, you can't add the accessories later, whereas with semi-elliptical leaf springs you can always add one or more leaves. So, the Dutch manufacturer has two designs of different camber and you have to make up your mind before you fit them, whether or not you are going to have accessories. 2. Like all springs, these will eventually fatigue and die. No one in this country can reset parabolics. so, you have a throw away spring and depending on how you drive and where, the life may not be all that you hope for. There is a company in Malaysia making parabolics for Hilux/Pick Up but they have not been successful here for the reasons above. Have a good Festive season and I hope St. Nicholas brings you a new Cruiser. Kind Regards Josh To: Subject: RE: (Fwd) Re: [DTLC] cruiser "comfort" Reply-to: w.j.markerink@a1.nl Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:23:49 +0100 On 16 Dec 2002 at 8:41, Josh Browne wrote: > I would make the observation that parabolic springs are > a great idea, comfortable and good off road articulation. They have > been used quite successfully by OE manufacturers. Nissan use them on > the front of C20 Vannette with a single transverse parabolic on the > front, Daihatsu used 2 leaf parabolics on the front of one of the > Rocky 4WDs, Landrover 101" had 2 leaf parabolics front and rear. There > are 2 major disadvantages, 1. You have no flexibility in load > arrangement. If you put them on a vehicle without a bar & winch, you > can't add the accessories later, whereas with semi-elliptical leaf > springs you can always add one or more leaves. So, the Dutch > manufacturer has two designs of different camber and you have to make > up your mind before you fit them, whether or not you are going to have > accessories. 2. Like all springs, these will eventually fatigue and > die. No one in this country can reset parabolics. so, you have a throw > away spring and depending on how you drive and where, the life may not > be all that you hope for. Hmm....never heard about anyone resetting OME springs....is that common down under? I thought you could only do that one time anyway....and mostly with stock springs, to keep things cheap.... > There is a company in Malaysia making > parabolics for Hilux/Pick Up but they have not been successful here > for the reasons above. Will forward this to both 55- and DieselTLC-list! Reply-To: From: "Josh Browne" To: "W. J. Markerink@A1. Nl" Subject: Resetting Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:05:36 +1100 Dear Willem-Jan, Any multi-leaf spring can be reset. Most often we add an extra leaf at the time. All springs eventually die. When the springs on a vehicle start to "sag" you can either replace them or reset them or rest them with an extra leaf. Given that the standard test method for durability is 200,000 cycles, that is on a test machine take the spring all of its expected maximum deflection 200,000 times, then the life of the spring is indefinite since it is not always going through its expected maximum travel. The more off roading you do the more often the spring goes through greater deflection, in turn this reduces the life expectancy. Resetting and retempering the spring without an extra leaf will have a relatively short life, but longer than resetting cold. A cold reset with an extra leaf can be expected to give 1/3 to 1/2 of the life of the original spring. Reset it a second time and life will be less than 1/4 of the original. The third reset is pointless since the spring is effectively not a spring anymore. If you keep resetting and adding extra leaves it become a cat chasing its tail. I have seen 60 series with 14 leaves in the rear. how crazy is that. The most significant reason for fitting new springs like OME is that the spring is longer and therefore there is more travel available. Resetting only allows you to return the vehicle to slightly above original height. Companies like Toyota quite intentionally designed the vehicles with limited travel, mostly for durability reasons. they don't like what you I nave been doing to their vehicles. Kind Regards Josh Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:48:48 -0600 From: pstraub@shaw.ca Subject: [DTLC] Spring Comparison. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Lassman > I built my own springs with a local shop, we dropped of a set OME and they > mocked them up from that kit. > > They even put the bends before and after the spring pads like the OME. I > was not sure how it would work as we had built a set two years prior with > little luck. Interesting. Craig_in_Calgary just replaced his springs and the old rear leaves he took off had a flat spot for the spring perch, but they were definately NOT OME's. As for your observations about OME being the best, I concur. A few years ago, when Prairie Dog Parts was getting into the Suspension import business, we did a direct comparison of several different brands of springs - Emu, Iron Man, Belton, and Carrol Springs. Emu was by far and away the best quality on every component. Belton had the most consistent best quality of the rest, and was a few bucks cheaper than the other ones we compared to at the time. Plus they were backed by one of the world's largest automotive parts manufacturers in the world, and were the only factory that had an ISO certification. They are also the only manufacturer (including Emu) to have inserts for in the spring eyes for precise bushing fit, and they manage to get a proper military wrap on the 40 series springs - even Emu doesn't do that. Iron Man tries, but they usually rub on the frame. Anyway, as a result of our comparison, we decided to import Beltons, and we've been fairly pleased so far. With over 100 kits in the field, we've had two leaf springs warranted, one shackle, one shock, and a handfull of u-bolts. We are very pleased. I don't know much about Terrain Tamer, but I have inquired, and I've been told that they are the house brand of Don Kyatt parts stores in Australia. The folks at Belton tell me that Don Kyatt will get their Terrain Tamer springs built at any of a number of factories, and for all they know, they could be made by Iron Man, Carrol, or any number of the Australian Spring manufacturers. Kind of like how all the different brands of North American springs were at one time mostly all built by the same factory: McCoy. (Belton did confirm that Terrain Tamer are definately are not Belton springs though) The big names like Emu, Belton, Iron Man and Carrol all have their own factories and build their own springs. I think only Emu actually build their own shocks now, though. Obviously, I am partial towards Belton because I sell it. But I sell it because I think it's the best value - Decent cost for good quality. Peter Straub From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 00:21:39 +0200 Subject: Re: [DTLC] Spring Comparison. Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 8 Oct 2003 at 10:48, pstraub@shaw.ca wrote: > Obviously, I am partial towards Belton because I sell it. But I sell > it because I think it's the best value - Decent cost for good quality. Does Belton by any chance also supply a kit for FJ55's? -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 16:41:44 -0600 From: pstraub@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [DTLC] Spring Comparison. To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: dtlc-owner@helios.net [mailto:dtlc-owner@helios.net]On Behalf Of > w.j.markerink@a1.nl > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 4:22 PM > > On 8 Oct 2003 at 10:48, pstraub@shaw.ca wrote: > > > Obviously, I am partial towards Belton because I sell it. But I sell > > it because I think it's the best value - Decent cost for good quality. > > Does Belton by any chance also supply a kit for FJ55's? Yes. Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:57:54 -0700 From: bruce.loewen@prairiedogparts.com To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] Belton and Ironman Suspensions. (LONG) Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net ALDaSilva76@cs.com wrote: >Just trying to find prices and where to get these in the states? > >Thanks, >Alex D. This is likely a longer answer than you were looking for and I hope I don't offend anyone with this "advertising". I just wanted to let people know where I am coming from when I talk about suspensions. I don't know anyone who sells IRONMAN any more. The product was ok but they were a nightmare to deal with. Once they lost their distributors they spammed every club they could find on the internet and basically became a mail order business. You can still order direct from them and Seth Jacobsen might still be dealing in them out of Scottsdale AZ. Last I talked to both parties, JT Outfitters and IRONMAN were both threatening lawsuits against each other. If all of that sounds cold its because I was once their great white hope for distribution in Canada. I bought three or four dozen sets from them and never got a complete order but was still buying from them when Peter and I started Prairie Dog Parts. We decided to order a couple competitive products and decide what to distribute after that. IRONMAN and Carrol Springs lost out to Belton. I have all of these plus OME on my rigs for comparison and feel that Belton is the best bang for the buck. So on to your question. We have not marketed to the states at all since sales have been brisk in Canada and we have been building up our inventory. I am now starting to feel comfortable about selling over the border since the shelves are full ( except for 55 series shackles, right Peter?). If you let us know where you are and if you have a favorite 4x4 shop in your area we'll introduce ourselves to them and hopefully make a sale and gain a reseller. And to (finally) answer your question... MSRP for the 60 series kit is $1690 cdn. It includes leafs, shocks, greasable anti inversion shackles, greasable pins, ubolts, bushings and a steering stabilizer. Cheers, Bruce Loewen Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:25:34 -0700 From: pstraub@shaw.ca Subject: [DTLC] Trippy FS To: DTLC Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net After much difficult contemplations over the past year, it is decided that I have to sell one of my trucks. Trippy is for sale. So, here's the specs on Trippy... It's a 1987 HJ61 RHD, 5 spd, been in Canada since August 2002, and I've put 46,000kms on it - it now has a total of 138,000kms. It was a 'Grade 4' when it came from Japan. I had it 'Rust Checked' before the first winter, but the 17 year old paint is due for replacement - as every minor chip is starting to seep rust - it's got to be done before next winter. Also, and while in my care, it's received two dings. One on the rear tailgate, one on the high roof at the back - both fairly minor. The other peril it has faced is the a crack in the windshield. It's small and at the bottom of the windscreen. It has had much done to it while in my care... - Rust Check - Replaced the tinting with new limo tint. - factory suspension repalced with TIC Parabolic suspension. - The DOA parts that came from Japan have been replaced. - New Optima batteries with Solar battery equalizer. - Wiring for switched and constant 12V power to the cab for accessories. - Panasonic MP3 layer - Cobra CB Radio - 12V accessories plugs. - headlights replaced with LHD lenses - Installed 175l fuel tank (go 10 to 12 hours, or up to 1,400 km without a fill!) - Installed Celica Seats with lambskin seat covers. - Webasto coolant heater And, this rig is completely set for towing your boat, trailer, or whatever... - 10,000lb Class V tow bar, rated up to 14,000lbs with load level hitch. - 7 wire trailer wiring adapted to 12V power and with the 4->3 wire signal light conversion. - Prodigy Electronic brake controller. And beleive me, this rig can haul. I won't bore you with the details of how well it can pull. So, that's the story. I want to get for it what I paid for it - with the exception of the Webasto, I am not valueing any of the extra's I've put in, but in case you were wondering... Fixing what was wrong with it when it arrived from Japan... $1,800 Suspension: $2,300 Electrical work: $1,200 Other Misc.: $1200 I consider that $6K of investment the 'depreciation' against the rest of the truck. If your thinking of a Japanese truck, I think you should consider Trippy. I know first hand that the 'pristine' Japanese trucks have a fair amount of work to get them to North American readiness - the suspensions are terrible, clutches worn out, no protection from Canadian winter salt, all the paint jobs are 15 years old and will need to be redone, radios are useless, headlights are illegal, and you have to get it through a newer, stricter OOP inspection. Ask some people that have brought in Japanese trucks about the little surprises they've found that were unexpected. Trippy's had it all done, and is ready to rock and roll. It's a super comfy, lightning fast, heavy hauler. CAD$26,500 with Webasto. $25,500 without. Peter Straub 403-542-4561 pstraub@shaw.ca From: w.j.markerink@a1.nl To: dtlc@helios.net Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:08:04 +0100 Subject: TIC Parabolic Suspension (was: [DTLC] Trippy FS Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net On 11 Mar 2004 at 15:25, pstraub@shaw.ca wrote: > - factory suspension repalced with TIC Parabolic suspension. Btw, just curious, which of the two versions did you get, standard or heavy? (and by what reference did you choose these?) (I know the manufacturer personally, having contemplated about a set for FJ55's, but didn't know they had much reputation/exposure outside either European or Land Rover circles....and you are not close to the latter either, right?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:58:09 -0800 From: Michael Martinz To: dtlc@helios.net Subject: Re: [DTLC] Trippy FS Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net Hey Peter, I am interested in the TIC parabolic suspension that you put into this thing. Couple of questions, how is it compared to regular leafs, and where did you get it? Any other mods on the truck power wise? What size tires? And of course...any pics!! Best Regards, MM Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:01:34 -0700 From: pstraub@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [DTLC] Trippy FS To: dtlc@helios.net Reply-To: dtlc@helios.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Martinz > I am interested in the TIC parabolic suspension that you put into this > thing. Couple of questions, how is it compared to regular leafs, and > where did you get it? Uh... did I say TIC Parabolic... Um, I mean, er.... I would rather not divuldge too much right now, but it should be sufficient to say that there should be a handful of North American distributors of parabolic springs in the next 12 months. I may have volunteered Trippy as a test platform for said suspension for one such interested vendor. To Willen-Jan - I got the Heavy Duty kit on the basis that it should have the worst ride, and that's the one we wanted to test. Plus, Trippy get's used as a heavy hauler from time to time, so... It kicks ass on regular leaves, and seems comparable to the OME kit I had for many years - definately softer than OME. It does have these ridiculously expensive Koni shocks that should probably be turned up a notch or two to stiffen the ride. What's nice about it is that I have the HD rear leaves, but they are not at all choppy like the OME rears are. Very smooth. Anyway, now that I've tickled your fancy, I can say no more. > Any other mods on the truck power wise? What size tires? I've done nothing to the engine for power mods. Despite Brad's disgust with the anemic 135 stock HP, I have found the power to be quite adequate, even when pulling. I guess that's the difference between the 5 speed and auto. Tires are 31x10.50's Dunlop track slicks (not really, but they're definately a summer tire) on two piece mags. > > And of course...any pics!! Tippy's due for a photo shoot tomorrow after I wash it. I'll post pics to a website and send you the link this weekend. Peter Straub Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:28:49 -0700 From: don barr Subject: Re: [FJ55] new 55 springs To: The FJ55 Registry Reply-To: anarkey@shaw.ca, The FJ55 Registry Kris FISCHER wrote: > where are folks getting springs for their 55's? I am in the process > of looking for some new ones and would like some suggestions, also how > well they ride and take a load. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm quite happy with my Belton suspension system, produced in Australia by these folks: http://www.offroad4x4.com.au/55_series.htm ....and distributed throughout North America by these folks: http://www.prairiedogparts.com/ "Stella" was suffering from saggy butt syndrome in a bad way. This suspension kit provided a moderate 2.5" lift, rides comfortably, and performed well most recently, with four adults, a 1/4 ton trailer in tow and all the worldly possessions that one university student can acquire over the course of an academic year. Don 1972 FJ55 "Stella"