55_headliner.txt! From: "Scott Leslie" To: Subject: [FJ55] roof-rot Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:09:10 -0400 Anyone on the list undertake major restoration of severe rust around the roof? I would really like to trim out and replace with fabricated supports and canvas removable top, but that might be way past what the Jersey vehicle police will allow. I thought someone posted about this on the TLCA list but cannot locate it in the archives. Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot From: Todd Kaderabek To: Cc: Pete McPherson Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:10:50 -0400 on 5/1/02 1:09 PM, Scott Leslie at swleslie@voicenet.com wrote: > Anyone on the list undertake major restoration of severe rust around the > roof? I would really like to trim out and replace with fabricated supports > and canvas removable top, but that might be way past what the Jersey vehicle > police will allow. I thought someone posted about this on the TLCA list but > cannot locate it in the archives. Pete McPherson did -- he's digest mode, but I'm sure could offer some advice. TJK -- Todd J. Kaderabek TLCA # 9280, Asheville, NC 1976 FJ55 /1989 FJ62/1994 FZJ80 From: BBrewer903@aol.com Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot To: fj55@tlca.org Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:55:31 EDT Replacing a roof on a 55 is a huge undertaking. Unfortunately it's a common problem and the rust doesn't stop there. I actually did a complete body transplant because it was cheaper and easier than cutting the roof off of a good body and welding it onto another. If you love your pig, look for another one with a clean body and a dead engine to either swap out your drivetrain or change the body. Bob From: Pete McPherson To: fj55@tlca.org Subject: [FJ55] Re: roof rot Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Yeah, I screwed around with that roof forever. I had baaad rot all around. My desire was not to return the rig to showroom quality but to keep my head dry when it rains. So, I cut/pulled/poked the rust out all around, right above the raingutter. Rust went all the way through. I did it in 3 foot sections, POR-15'd on the remaining metal above and below that gap. Filled that absurd rust-incubator gap between the two roofs with bondo. Covered the gap with fiberglass mesh. Primed and painted. So far, the roof has stayed on at 75 mph and my head is dry. Pete McPherson 1976 FJ40 1976 FJ55, 350 (soon going back to 2F), powertrax, scout PS, 33 MTs. Nashville From: robert schenker To: fj55@tlca.org Subject: [FJ55] re: roof rot Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 18:41:14 -0700 >So, I cut/pulled/poked the rust out all around, right >above the raingutter. Rust went all the way through. I >did it in 3 foot sections, POR-15'd on the remaining >metal above and below that gap. Filled that absurd >rust-incubator gap between the two roofs with bondo. >Covered the gap with fiberglass mesh. Primed and >painted. I've thought about doing this but the one other time I tried filling a void like that, the rust came back with a vengeance later on. The earlier post describing welding metal strips inside the evil void sounds more promising (but a lot more work). How long have you had yours done like this? Those of you who have the rot but haven't done anything about it yet, at least drill or cut some holes wherever it's peeking through to let it air out. If your liner is rotten, tear it out and pull out the cotton batting used as insulation--it's a moisture collector--I think it's one of the primary causes of the problem. Bob with the swiss cheese roof. From: WFPROUTY@aol.com Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot To: fj55@tlca.org Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:32:09 EDT I've done it but I have a bit of an advantage. I run a steel fabrication facility in Oakland CA. I had serious rot above the rain gutter and up to the first form line where the roof goes horizontal. I took my plasma cutter and cut the roof along the form line from front to back. Then took an air chisel and broke loose the spot welds that hold the outer roof skin and the inner section to the top of the body sides. (the shop manual has some great cut-away pictures of how these roofs are put together) I then took some 14ga galvanized steel and formed new rain gutters and about 2 extra inches to weld up to the horizontal section of the roof. I left out the strange double sandwiched rain gutter and skip welded the new section to the top of the body sides to allow any condensation to drain out. It was a big job but not beyond the means of anybody with a small MIG welder. Forming the new gutter sections is something a fabrication shop would have to do though. If you're really interested in trying it we could talk off line more. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the process but I can snap a few of the finished job. Warren Prouty 70 FJ55 "AJAX" TLCA#10238 From: robert schenker Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot To: fj55@tlca.org Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 23:35:16 -0700 >I've done it but I have a bit of an advantage. I run a steel fabrication >facility in Oakland CA. I had serious rot above the rain gutter and up to >the first form line where the roof goes horizontal. I took my plasma cutter >and cut the roof along the form line from front to back. Then took an air >chisel and broke loose the spot welds that hold the outer roof skin and the >inner section to the top of the body sides. (the shop manual has some great >cut-away pictures of how these roofs are put together) >I then took some 14ga galvanized steel and formed new rain gutters and about >2 extra inches to weld up to the horizontal section of the roof. I left out >the strange double sandwiched rain gutter and skip welded the new section to >the top of the body sides to allow any condensation to drain out. It was a >big job but not beyond the means of anybody with a small MIG welder. Forming >the new gutter sections is something a fabrication shop would have to do >though. If you're really interested in trying it we could talk off line >more. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the process but I can snap >a few of the finished job. Warren, At some point I'd like to chat with you about this (I'm in Oakland too). My roof isn't that bad (not that good either), but where I have a nasty issue is at the bottom of the pillars on either side of the windshield. There are really big holes. Scary big. Mudrak says they won't cause structural failure, but I'm not convinced. Luckily I have a brand new windshield and gasket in the garage. Regards, Bob Schenker Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot From: Maxwell Balmain To: Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:23:54 -0700 on 5/1/02 11:35 PM, robert schenker at ris@schenkerdesign.com wrote: > Warren, > > At some point I'd like to chat with you about this (I'm in Oakland > too). My roof isn't that bad (not that good either), but where I have > a nasty issue is at the bottom of the pillars on either side of the > windshield. There are really big holes. Scary big. Mudrak says they > won't cause structural failure, but I'm not convinced. Luckily I have > a brand new windshield and gasket in the garage. Bob, I have seen a few rusty Pigs but I can't recall seeing rust like you describe. It just does not sound like the usual 55 rust pattern. Do you think a previous owner had drilled into this area to support a roof rack or some kind of hack job roll cage? Max ps: Speaking of rust. I have a jpeg composite of 5 photos of one the rustiest pigs you will ever see. Sad sight but the beast does drive strong though. If anyone wants this jpeg, just shoot me an email and I will forawrd it to you. From: robert schenker Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot To: fj55@tlca.org Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:41:39 -0700 >Bob, > >I have seen a few rusty Pigs but I can't recall seeing rust like you >describe. It just does not sound like the usual 55 rust pattern. Do you >think a previous owner had drilled into this area to support a roof rack or >some kind of hack job roll cage? > >Max > >ps: Speaking of rust. I have a jpeg composite of 5 photos of one the >rustiest pigs you will ever see. Sad sight but the beast does drive strong >though. If anyone wants this jpeg, just shoot me an email and I will forawrd >it to you. Sadly, this rust just happened. When I got the truck it had rust only at the rear tips of the front doors and the body area just in front of the driver's door. I've had the truck parked on the street for fourteen years and this happened gradually gradually. One day I noticed a growing bubble at the lower corner of the windshield and poked at it with my SA knife. Two years later a hamster could crawl through. Not pretty. Bob To: fj55@tlca.org Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot From: Morgan Fletcher Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:47:17 -0700 Maxwell Balmain writes: > Bob, > > I have seen a few rusty Pigs but I can't recall seeing rust like you > describe. It just does not sound like the usual 55 rust pattern. Do you > think a previous owner had drilled into this area to support a roof rack or > some kind of hack job roll cage? > > Max > > ps: Speaking of rust. I have a jpeg composite of 5 photos of one the > rustiest pigs you will ever see. Sad sight but the beast does drive strong > though. If anyone wants this jpeg, just shoot me an email and I will forawrd > it to you. Send it to me (I think you did already.) and I'll put it up on birfield.com. Morgan -- VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA << >> Illegitimi non carborundum http://www.birfield.com/~morgan << From: "Green, Tom (CAP, GEFA)" To: "'fj55@tlca.org'" Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:07:10 -0400 Max, is mine one of them? You know I have got some serious roof and other traditional problem rust areas!!! As I am currently in the process of moving, everything is on hold but I plan on doing a frame off with my 76 now. I plan on having the body dipped instead of blasted and I will attack each area one by one, hopefully honing my welding skills along the way. While the body is off, it will allow me to drop in my recently acquired, direct from OZ, rebuilt H55 & matching/mated rebuilt T/C. In addition I plan on completing my P/S & Fuel Injection conversions & am giving serious consideration to a SO!!!! Needless to say, the Pig (have to think of name still) will be grounded for awhile (hopefully no longer than 6-9 months!!) but when she is done, Sweeeeeettt!!!! Tom Green - TLCA #9596 Renton, WA (Soon to be Stamford, CT) 89 FJ62 (Soon to be F/S), 76 FJ55 (Never to be sold!!!!) From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" To: fj55@tlca.org Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:41:11 +0100 On 2 May 02 at 8:23, Maxwell Balmain wrote: > on 5/1/02 11:35 PM, robert schenker at ris@schenkerdesign.com wrote: > > > Warren, > > > > At some point I'd like to chat with you about this (I'm in Oakland > > too). My roof isn't that bad (not that good either), but where I have > > a nasty issue is at the bottom of the pillars on either side of the > > windshield. There are really big holes. Scary big. Mudrak says they > > won't cause structural failure, but I'm not convinced. Luckily I have > > a brand new windshield and gasket in the garage. > > > > Regards, > > Bob Schenker > > > Bob, > > I have seen a few rusty Pigs but I can't recall seeing rust like you > describe. It just does not sound like the usual 55 rust pattern. Do you > think a previous owner had drilled into this area to support a roof rack or > some kind of hack job roll cage? Mine also has deep cancer on the passenger side, on the joint/curve between fender and windscreen (windscreen/gasket itself is miraculously clean). Plus a roofrail that looks as if a horse took a bite out of it, and one meter of the each of the vertical sides on the rear of the roof itself (almost through on one side, seems as if a previous aspirant-buyer even stuck a screwdriver in, but couldn't get through completely....:)) (if not for that cancer, perhaps he might have bought it, so I can't curse to hard on that spot; might not have found this pig otherwise....:)) Interesting comment about that vapour-proof headliner btw....is the replacement headliner offered on the net somewhere also vapour-proof? Makes me wondering about 60- and 80-series headliners too.... (I think I have nasty rust on the right side of my 60 because they did a lousy job on a window replacement (blind panels, for a Dutch van-conversion....only by sheer luck I saw water dripping along the lower rubber, and had them reinstall that panel....seems enough water got trapped in the fender-wells underneath to increase rust from the inside dramatically, compared to the other side) Also makes me wondering whether part of the stench in my 55 is related to the headliner....has been parked relatively dry the last decade, but once the mold is nestled, I don't think the stench will ever disappear.... (but, I found an interesting 'odor-eater', MyraZyme, a mix of bacteria, enzymes and anorganic stuff, that is used to get rid of smells on/in outdoor gear, like shoes, diving suits, sleeping bags, tents, etc. Bright yellow ampul with concentrated fluid, can be used as dipping or as spraying) > ps: Speaking of rust. I have a jpeg composite of 5 photos of one the > rustiest pigs you will ever see. Sad sight but the beast does drive strong > though. If anyone wants this jpeg, just shoot me an email and I will forawrd > it to you. Yup, interested! (if only to make less rusty pigs look good....:)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] From: WFPROUTY@aol.com Subject: Re: [FJ55] roof-rot To: fj55@tlca.org Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 10:49:25 EDT I had the same problem except i had a hol at the top of the pillar. We can get together and i can weld a small patch and grind it smooth. We should get all the Northern California pigs together for a little weld party Warren From: "Scott Leslie" To: Subject: [FJ55] roof-rot - thanks! Reply-To: fj55@tlca.org Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:33:10 -0400 Status: To all who offered suggestions and laments, thank you. Although not as high traffic as the LCML list, it's got that same cruiser friendly feeling. Thanks again!