From:             "George Couyant" 
To:               <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com>
Subject:          Re: [80] 100 series owners - Extended Warranty(Chat)
Date sent:        Wed, 6 Sep 2000 09:48:49 +1100
Send reply to:    80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian B 

> Firstly, welcome 'back' GC.

Always been here, just not contributing....

> Toyota may want to get the aftermarket back, but how much are they going to
> make us pay? (i.e. how attractive are they going to make it?). Or, do we go
> back to the 1HD-T??????????

I think you'll find the price difference will not be too high. Toyota are
using up export credits to keep the price reasonable. We (Safari) are buying a
couple for development work. IFS could be a problem....

Cheers
gc

'97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz










From:             "Phil Gaukroger" 
To:               <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com>
Subject: 	  Re: [80] 100 series owners - Extended Warranty(Chat)
Date: 		  Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:54:22 +0930
Reply-To: 80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com

>IFS could be a problem....
>
> Cheers
> gc
>
> '97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz

Could someone (?gc) spell out why IFS (Independant Front Suspension) is
potentially a problem on the 100 series.

Phil Gaukroger
Adelaide










From:             Kevin Mooney 
To:               "'80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com'" <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com>
Subject:          RE: [80] 100 series owners - Extended Warranty(Chat)
Date sent:        Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:34:00 +1100 
Send reply to:    80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Gaukroger [mailto:pgaukrog@health.adelaide.edu.au]

>> IFS could be a problem....
>
> Could someone (?gc) spell out why IFS (Independant Front Suspension) is
> potentially a problem on the 100 series.
>
> Phil Gaukroger
> Adelaide
>
Phil,

My answer is based on some hearsay and comments from an owner of a 100 with IFS.

My understanding is that with IFS it is impossible to tinker with the
suspension.  As I am not an expert in this area I am unsure whether it is
impossible to change all components, ie extra lift shocks coils etc, or only one
or two aspects of the suspension are not able to be changed.

Recently on a TLCC training day I met a gent who has purchased a 100 series GXV
V8 with the IFS.  He was lamenting the fact that he had spent considerable
dollars on accessories and was then shocked to learn that he could not make his
preferred modifications to the suspension because of IFS!

I am not sure if the above is entirely correct but that's what I have heard.


Kevin A Mooney
Kevin.Mooney@macquarie.com.au
phone: +61 2 8232 3254
mobile: 0418 220602
1997 GXL 40 th Anniversary petrol auto
BFG A/T's, AM CB, 2 IPF lights & some goodies to be added











From:             "Steve Dalli" 
To:               <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com>
Subject:          Re: [80] 100 series owners - Extended Warranty(Chat)
Date:             Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:29:00 +1000
Reply-To:         80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Gaukroger" 

> >IFS could be a problem....
> >
>
> Could someone (?gc) spell out why IFS (Independant Front Suspension) is
> potentially a problem on the 100 series.
>
> Phil Gaukroger
> Adelaide
>

 Phil,
The IFS has very restricted wheel travel compared to the GXL & RV & poverty pack
models of the 100 series crusiers. I assume you are talking about the GXV V8
model which has the IFS. Toyota must have thought that the cost of the GXV being
around the 100K AUS many owners would not want to take them in the Bush & so
suspension being not an issue.

Steve Dalli
RV 100 Turbo









From:             "George Couyant" 
To:               <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com>
Subject:          Re: [80] 100 series owners - Extended Warranty(Chat)
Date sent:        Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:34:36 +1100
Send reply to:    80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Darren McRae 

>  isn't a problem, but the ifs crossmember, which doesn't protrude much more
> than the solid axle diff center but is wider.

I've found (humiliation) that it takes a bit of getting used to on tracks. A
live front axle like our 80 Series moves up with wheel movement. The IFS cross
member simply drops down with the body as the front suspension compresses and at
high suspension compression the cross member will take out any small obstacles
in the middle of the track. Sometimes the obstacles win....

Great on the road though.

Cheers
gc

'97 HDJ80 - Melbourne Oz






From:             "Darren McRae" 
To:               <80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com>
Subject:          RE: [80] 100 series owners - Extended Warranty(Chat)
Date sent:        Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:17:12 +1000
Send reply to:    80_series@sgiblab.sgi.com

>  Phil,
> The IFS has very restricted wheel travel compared to the GXL & RV & poverty pack
> models of the 100 series crusiers. I assume you are talking about the GXV V8
> model which has the IFS. Toyota must have thought that the cost of the GXV being
> around the 100K AUS many owners would not want to take them in the Bush & so
> suspension being not an issue.
> 
> Steve Dalli
> RV 100 Turbo

I believe the 100 ifs has 50mm longer rear shocks to allow the same rti
As the solid front axle. Which would mean the ifs travel isn't so bad.

Also. For most driving, ifs is fine, drives much better on our high crowned
roads And would be a much preffered option for most outback travelers who could
get The thought of ifs hiluxes from their minds, And unless you are talking
extreme, then with lockers and a winch, the travel
 isn't a problem, but the ifs crossmember, which doesn't protrude much more than
the solid axle diff center but is wider.

Darren McRae.
Drysdale Vic (Aus)
0417 88 25 88
03 52 48 1550
(W) darren@ipioffice.com
(H) darren@the-shed.net










FROM: "Biggus" 
SUBJECT: Re: Which one Landcruiser or Patrol
DATE: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:39:19 +1100
ORGANIZATION: remove the .NOSHITMAIL
NEWSGROUPS: aus.cars.offroad

> Can anyone tell me just what is the problem with 100series Landcruisers?

Front diffs blow in them like a $.02 hooker when off road.







To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:42:24 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Front Lift
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au]

  Gidday

  Heard of two 100 IFS's this week that have the "bit that the torsion
  bars go into" ripped off from the sub frame. Both had had their standard
  bars rotated. Anybody else had this problem?

  cheers
  brian


Gidday yourself too ;-)

Could you clarify please Brian, was it the cast piece the torsion bar slips
into that's bolted to the lower wishbone (front end), or is it the fitting
at the rear end of the torsion bar, where the height adjustment is made?
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:43:27 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Front Lift
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]=20
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2004 3:42 PM

> Gidday yourself too ;-)
> 
> Could you clarify please Brian, was it the cast piece the torsion bar
> slips into that's bolted to the lower wishbone (front end), or is it the
> fitting at the rear end of the torsion bar, where the height adjustment
> is made? Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.

Gidday

I understood it to be the rear piece.

cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Doron" 
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:37:40 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Front Lift
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "brian sommerville" =20
wrote:
> Gidday
>
> Heard of two 100 IFS's this week that have the "bit that the torsion
> bars go into" ripped off from the sub frame. Both had had their standard
> bars rotated. Anybody else had this problem?
>
> cheers
> brian
> www.gpsoz.com.au
> ph  02 9999 2313
> fax 02 9999 6716
>

Brain,
Thanks for the information. This is a very very scary failure that=20
you are describing. I wish you could get us more details about it.
I work my truck's front end very hard, often very far away from home.
If I am not mistaken, rotating the spline should not decrease the=20
strength of the joint by any significant amount. I would think it's=20
the potential increase in spring force, due to higher weight and=20
spring travel, that causes the larger loads.

Doron,
Out here in Arizona with a loaded UZJ100
Still waiting for 4.88's








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Andrew" 
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:43:14 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Front Lift
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Doron"  wrote:
> Brain,
> Thanks for the information. This is a very very scary failure that
> you are describing. I wish you could get us more details about it.
> I work my truck's front end very hard, often very far away from home.
> If I am not mistaken, rotating the spline should not decrease the
> strength of the joint by any significant amount. I would think it's
> the potential increase in spring force, due to higher weight and
> spring travel, that causes the larger loads.
>
> Doron,
> Out here in Arizona with a loaded UZJ100
> Still waiting for 4.88's

This does not sound good at all.  Any more information would be=20
greatly appreciated.  Were they running stock tbars?  Did they have a=20
bullbar and bumper?  How many miles on the vehicles? Etc.  Was it a=20
diesel or v8 lc?  Don't the diesels weight a bit more.

Thanks,

Andrew









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Taylor, Robert (ERA)" 
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:11:30 +0930
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Front Lift - Email found in subject
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]=20
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2004 3:42 PM

> Gidday yourself too ;-)
> 
> Could you clarify please Brian, was it the cast piece the torsion bar
> slips into that's bolted to the lower wishbone (front end), or is it the
> fitting at the rear end of the torsion bar, where the height adjustment
> is made? Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.


I had the bolt that goes through the adjuster block stripped by someone!!
(Maybe during BBar fitment !) this was a horror mess and costs $90 to replace!
The block actually flogged out a bit in its hole as i was using a rattle gun 
to try and undo it(much better than an oxy!) so maybe this is the weak area?
Rob T
Darwin NT
100TD manual
lotsafruit







To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: 
From: "Darren McRae" 
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:38:40 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Rhette Dufty"  wrote:
> Hi all, am now close to upgrading my suspension finally
> I have Costed Rock Crawler 34 mm Torsion Bars and Ralph Tough Dog this seems
> to be the way to go, anybody else got ideas?
> Rhette

With the current breakages of 100 series fron A arms, I would maybe
wait a little bit and see what is offered to solve it.

DMc









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Rod McLeod" 
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:43:26 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Rhette Dufty"  wrote:
  > Hi all, am now close to upgrading my suspension finally
  > I have Costed Rock Crawler 34 mm Torsion Bars and Ralph Tough Dog this seems
  > to be the way to go, anybody else got ideas?
  > Rhette

  With the current breakages of 100 series fron A arms, I would maybe
  wait a little bit and see what is offered to solve it.

  DMc

Darren is this a weak Toyota component ?? do they know about it, i.e.: are
they considering a recall for repairs

Hoo Roo Rod









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Darren McRae" 
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:21:32 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Rod McLeod"  wrote:
> Darren is this a weak Toyota component ?? do they know about it, i.e.: are
> they considering a recall for repairs
> Hoo Roo Rod

It would seem currently that it is about 1-3 months away from being a
recall IMHO, as it seems all of a sudden afew broken ones are=
appearing, so by the time Toyota hear of it, see enough of them,
instigate a fix, field test it, and issue recall notices, it may be a
little time yet.

All the ones I know of so far are [i think] diesel, less than 12
months old, and a mixture of standard and upgraded T bars, but all
have bull bar, dual batts,dont know if with winch, but standard T bar
ones seem to have had the T bars "adjusted" for more lift that have
had this problem too.

DMc








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Darren McRae" 
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:48:09 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Darren McRae"  wrote:
> --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Rod McLeod"  wrote:
> > Darren is this a weak Toyota component ?? do they know about it, i.e.: are
> > they considering a recall for repairs
> > Hoo Roo Rod

Further to this Rod, spoke with someone last night who looked at some
pics GG sent me a week or so ago, and I noticed rust on the broken
section, and then clean break, which indicated a progressive failure,
rather than a catastrophic failure.

This person took the pics to a guy he knew this morning who has a 4
month old 100 ifs, 17000km with 14,000km of that touring through the
Kimberlies recently, with non "adjusted" standard T bars, standard
shocks, bull bar and dual batteries.

They found stress cracks in the arms of this truck where they break,
which have not yet broken through, but showing movement, so I may
askk GG to put some pics up on yahoo pics page, so those of you with
IFS 100's can keep an eye on the trouble spots for the moment while a
solution is decided on by those who need to do so.

DMc







To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Rod McLeod" 
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:13:27 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  Further to this Rod, spoke with someone last night who looked at some
  pics GG sent me a week or so ago, and I noticed rust on the broken
  section, and then clean break, which indicated a progressive failure,
  rather than a catastrophic failure.

  This person took the pics to a guy he knew this morning who has a 4
  month old 100 ifs, 17000km with 14,000km of that touring through the
  Kimberlies recently, with non "adjusted" standard T bars, standard
  shocks, bull bar and dual batteries.

  They found stress cracks in the arms of this truck where they break,
  which have not yet broken through, but showing movement, so I may
  askk GG to put some pics up on yahoo pics page, so those of you with
  IFS 100's can keep an eye on the trouble spots for the moment while a
  solution is decided on by those who need to do so.

  DMc




struth I can feel a recall coming on, would be good if Greg can post the
pics, has anyone with the V8 noticed any thing peculiar going on in their
front ends ??
Hoo Roo Rod











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Debbie, Declan, Erin & Peter Crawley" 
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:31:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Darren McRae=20
  Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48 PM

  --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Darren McRae"  wrote:
  > --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Rod McLeod"  wrote:
  > > Darren is this a weak Toyota component ?? do they know about it, i.e.: are
  > > they considering a recall for repairs
  > > Hoo Roo Rod

  Further to this Rod, spoke with someone last night who looked at some
  pics GG sent me a week or so ago, and I noticed rust on the broken
  section, and then clean break, which indicated a progressive failure,
  rather than a catastrophic failure.

  This person took the pics to a guy he knew this morning who has a 4
  month old 100 ifs, 17000km with 14,000km of that touring through the
  Kimberlies recently, with non "adjusted" standard T bars, standard
  shocks, bull bar and dual batteries.

  They found stress cracks in the arms of this truck where they break,
  which have not yet broken through, but showing movement, so I may
  askk GG to put some pics up on yahoo pics page, so those of you with
  IFS 100's can keep an eye on the trouble spots for the moment while a
  solution is decided on by those who need to do so.

  DMc



Darren,

Can you organise some pics to be posted and/or tell us what to look for as 
my 2003 has just knocked over 40k.  I live in country NSW and it carries my
wife, 2 and a half year old and six month old large distances between town
s very regularly.  If it fails and leaves them stuck by themselves in the m
iddle of no where, Toyota will wish I was never born.

Thanks
Pete Crawley
Gulgong NSW=20
2003 HDJ100 with bits.







To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:12:39 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Darren McRae [mailto:darrenm@bigpond.net.au]


  > --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Rod McLeod"  wrote:
  > > Darren is this a weak Toyota component ?? do they know about it,
  > i.e.: are
  > > they considering a recall for repairs
  > > Hoo Roo Rod

  Further to this Rod, spoke with someone last night who looked at some
  pics GG sent me a week or so ago, and I noticed rust on the broken
  section, and then clean break, which indicated a progressive failure,
  rather than a catastrophic failure.

  This person took the pics to a guy he knew this morning who has a 4
  month old 100 ifs, 17000km with 14,000km of that touring through the
  Kimberlies recently, with non "adjusted" standard T bars, standard
  shocks, bull bar and dual batteries.

  They found stress cracks in the arms of this truck where they break,
  which have not yet broken through, but showing movement, so I may
  askk GG to put some pics up on yahoo pics page, so those of you with
  IFS 100's can keep an eye on the trouble spots for the moment while a
  solution is decided on by those who need to do so.

  DMc


G'day All,

I've uploaded some pics to the photo section for all to see. Have a look at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst , then go to the folder
named "100 series IFS failures".

If you look at one pic in particular, you can see the beginning of the crack
is discoloured, like it has had a chance to rust before the arm has failed
completely. If one was lucky, you could possibly pick up the failure early,
as Darren's note above described. Perhaps those with IFS trucks should have
the dealer make note to inspect their lower arms while the vehicles on the
hoist for service or pre/post trip inspection.

I've been trying to collect more info on this failure before posting
anything to the list. What I can tell you, is that I know personally of one
failure, and know of 2 other "reported" failures, though heard second hand.

Of the 2 I'm aware of, the first was a guy in my 4WD club (and a member
here) who has just crossed the Canning. Although he had no problem with his
Nov. 2002 HDJ100, his mate he was travelling with an earlier 2002 HDJ100,
70,000km, had the lower RHS control arm break where the torsion bar
attaches. This vehicle had the OE torsion bar with aftermarket shocks.

When this failure occurs, the suspension no longer works as the torsion bar
doesn't support the vehicles weight, rather the arm rests on the rubber bump
stop. This vehicle ended up being trailered in the last 250km into Halls
Creek. Of course this failure to his mates vehicle has left him with serious
doubts about continuing his trip, for fear the same may happen to his. His
40th Anniversary HZJ80 had taken him over 200,000km on terrain like that
without any sort of failure.

Another of the failures was reported on another Lcool list, and again it was
the RHS of a HDJ100, however this was a 2003 with 24,000kms, and had
aftermarket torsion bars and shocks. This one failed on the Madigan line,
and was driven into Birdsville.

Perhaps if anyone else has any factual evidence they would care to share
with the list (or offlist if necessary), then please send it through.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.







To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Darren McRae" 
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:14:46 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie, Declan, Erin & Peter
Crawley"  wrote:
> Darren,
> Can you organise some pics to be posted and/or tell us what to look
> for as my 2003 has just knocked over 40k.  I live in country NSW and
> it carries my wife, 2 and a half year old and six month old large
> distances between towns very regularly.  If it fails and leaves them
> stuck by themselves in the middle of no where, Toyota will wish I was
> never born.
>
> Thanks
> Pete Crawley


Pics shouldnt be far away today, and though only heard of afew at
this stage, I thought it was worth suggesting everyone check them,
especially the driver side, given there seems to be some indication
of the problem before it could become an issue.

Fore warned is fore armed, so they say.

DMc










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Jordan Huang" 
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:43:31 +1000
Subject: Re: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Greg Goulden
  Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:12 PM

  G'day All,

  I've uploaded some pics to the photo section for all to see. Have a look at
  http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst , then go to the folder
  named "100 series IFS failures".

  If you look at one pic in particular, you can see the beginning of the crack
  is discoloured, like it has had a chance to rust before the arm has failed
  completely. If one was lucky, you could possibly pick up the failure early,
  as Darren's note below described. Perhaps those with IFS trucks should have
  the dealer make note to inspect their lower arms while the vehicles on the
  hoist for service or pre/post trip inspection.

  I've been trying to collect more info on this failure before posting
  anything to the list. What I can tell you, is that I know personally of one
  failure, and know of 2 other "reported" failures, though heard second hand.

  Of the 2 I'm aware of, the first was a guy in my 4WD club (and a member
  here) who has just crossed the Canning. Although he had no problem with his
  Nov. 2002 HDJ100, his mate he was travelling with an earlier 2002 HDJ100,
  70,000km, had the lower RHS control arm break where the torsion bar
  attaches. This vehicle had the OE torsion bar with aftermarket shocks.

  When this failure occurs, the suspension no longer works as the torsion bar
  doesn't support the vehicles weight, rather the arm rests on the rubber bump
  stop. This vehicle ended up being trailered in the last 250km into Halls
  Creek. Of course this failure to his mates vehicle has left him with serious
  doubts about continuing his trip, for fear the same may happen to his. His
  40th Anniversary HZJ80 had taken him over 200,000km on terrain like that
  without any sort of failure.

  Another of the failures was reported on another Lcool list, and again it was
  the RHS of a HDJ100, however this was a 2003 with 24,000kms, and had
  aftermarket torsion bars and shocks. This one failed on the Madigan line,
  and was driven into Birdsville.

  Perhaps if anyone else has any factual evidence they would care to share
  with the list (or offlist if necessary), then please send it through.
  Regards,

  Greg Goulden
  2000 HDJ105
  Melb. AU.


Greg,

Have you heard of anyone had the failure with the standard suspension?  With 
the cases you know about, did Toyota cover it under warranty? or was it void 
due to suspension upgrade.

Cheers

Jordan











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Scott Brady" 
From: "Shotts Family" 
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:24:44 -0700
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jordan Huang [mailto:golfrules@hotmail.com]
  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 5:44 PM

  Greg,

  Have you heard of anyone had the failure with the standard suspension?
  With the cases you know about, did Toyota cover it under warranty? or was it
  void due to suspension upgrade.

  Cheers

  Jordan



Guys:  Here's an interesting bit of info that might apply to this subject:

My 2001 has been a perfect Cruiser since new.  No warranty issues/claims
whatsoever.  I've had general maintenance done mostly at my dealer (because
I have and extended warranty with them).  The only thing I wrecked on the
truck was my front diff (trying to get up a huge hill we first slid all the
way down) and that was fixed under ext warr (now I have ARB lockers though I
doubt I'd get up that hill?).

Last month I took the truck in for an alignment (only it's 2nd one in 80K
miles...what a truck!!...and it gets trashed off road) to my Toyota dealer.
When I picked it up my service advisor said "Oh, we ordered some parts for
you under your extended warranty.  When they come in we'll throw them on for
you".  When I asked what they want to "fix", he said that they're replacing
my CV boots because they were leaky and they're going to replace my lower
ball joints too.

I was in shock because the beast is 3-inch lifted, has 35's and is
off-roaded to the max, which Toyota knows.  My CV's have been a tad leaky
forever because of the increased angle.  Why they did this work I don't
know.  Reading this recent issue of breakage however makes me wonder is they
seen "cracks" in my lower control arm (A-arm whatever).  You see, to replace
the ball joint or the lower A-arm on a UZJ in America they're only sold as a
"set" so I had all new lower parts put on.  WOW!  So......I know the dealer
has been slow during the summer.  Were they simply making some extra bread?
Or, did I have some signs of this trouble?

Signed, Curious

PS:  One thing I did notice which I've never heard before....in Colorado
when off-road a week after they did the above work.....with the windows up
we heard occasional though often-enough mild thumping noises when going over
rocks, etc.  After much research we discovered the sound was caused by rocks
shifting the "play or slack in the steering" from one side to the other.  We
could also simulate this by driving slowly and rocking the steering wheel
side to side quickly.  It would make the same thump noise and you could feel
some steering slack or play.  Never noticed it before, can't hear it with
the windows down, runs perfect on the highway.  Ideas?  Did they put
something together wrong?  Loose?  Another problem?













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:52:50 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Shotts Family [mailto:jshotts@earthlink.net]


   Why they did this work I don't
  know.  Reading this recent issue of breakage however makes me wonder is they
  seen "cracks" in my lower control arm (A-arm whatever).  You see, to replace
  the ball joint or the lower A-arm on a UZJ in America they're only sold as a
  "set" so I had all new lower parts put on.  WOW!  So......I know the dealer
  has been slow during the summer.  Were they simply making some extra bread?
  Or, did I have some signs of this trouble?

  Signed, Curious

  PS:  One thing I did notice which I've never heard before....in Colorado
  when off-road a week after they did the above work.....with the windows up
  we heard occasional though often-enough mild thumping noises when going over
  rocks, etc.  After much research we discovered the sound was caused by rocks
  shifting the "play or slack in the steering" from one side to the other. We
  could also simulate this by driving slowly and rocking the steering wheel
  side to side quickly.  It would make the same thump noise and you could feel
  some steering slack or play.  Never noticed it before, can't hear it with
  the windows down, runs perfect on the highway.  Ideas?  Did they put
  something together wrong?  Loose?  Another problem?




John,

I think only you and your dealer are going to know the answer to that
question! If you get on well with the dealership, how about visiting again
and asking to see the old parts removed? I haven't found out about service
part availability, but having to replace the hole arm when needing only a
ball joint sounds excessive.

Also, the clunk in your steering sounds like it could be a fault with the
rack. As your dealer sounds pro-active, take it in and get them to listen.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.

PS. If people can't be bothered to SNIP, then they might find themselves on
Mick's next train to Siberia !!!  ;-)







To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Darren McRae" 
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:04:41 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Jordan Huang" 
wrote:
> Greg,
> Have you heard of anyone had the failure with the standard=20
> suspension?  With the cases you know about, did Toyota cover it under
> warranty? or was it void due to suspension upgrade.
> Cheers
> Jordan

Heard of another today, near new, 5000km, one dirt trip to Flinders
from S.A, and A arm is cracked where they break, though not broken
yet. Standard unadjusted T bars, standard shocks.

They are sending me vehicle details, think we should start some sort
of data base maybe.

DMc









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Shotts Family" 
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:50:03 -0700
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Oh, Greg, was I correct?  (I'm an idiot on these things)  What I called the
lower control arm...the thing they replaced with the ball joint....is that
in fact the A-arm, the thing that others have broken or cracked?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Shotts Family [mailto:jshotts@earthlink.net]
  Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:43 PM
  To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension


  Gotcha Greg.  Thanks!


To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:03:38 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Darren McRae [mailto:darrenm@bigpond.net.au]

  Heard of another today, near new, 5000km, one dirt trip to Flinders=20
  from S.A, and A arm is cracked where they break, though not broken=20
  yet. Standard unadjusted T bars, standard shocks.

  They are sending me vehicle details, think we should start some sort=20
  of data base maybe.

  DMc


Another one :-(((

Great idea on the database Daz, I'll get one sorted.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:03:38 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Shotts Family [mailto:jshotts@earthlink.net]

  Oh, Greg, was I correct?  (I'm an idiot on these things)  What I called the
  lower control arm...the thing they replaced with the ball joint....is that
  in fact the A-arm, the thing that others have broken or cracked?


John,

Yes, the lower control arm, is the same as the lower wishbone, or A arm,
etc.

And you sure you got me? I can here a train coming.... TOOT TOOT
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Shotts Family" 
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:14:17 -0700
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Help Re suspension
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]
  Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:04 PM

  John,

  Yes, the lower control arm, is the same as the lower wishbone, or A arm,
  etc.

  And you sure you got me? I can here a train coming.... TOOT TOOT
  Regards,

  Greg Goulden
  2000 HDJ105
  Melb. AU.


Wow, glad I got new A-arms.  Thanks!
......it's rollin round the bend, and I ain't seen the sunshine since I
don't know when....I'm stuck in ??????????  (Know the song?  You started
it.)







To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:27:56 +1000
Subject: [100scool] IFS failure database
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]

  Great idea on the database Daz, I'll get one sorted.


The database is here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/database

If anyone sees any need for changes / additions, please advise.

GG.











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>, <80scool@yahoogroups.com>,
	
From: "David Kedge" 
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:45:43 +1100
Subject: [100scool] Reduced wheel articulation of 100 Series IFS compared to RFS 80 Series
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

I am in the decision making stage of preparing to buy a new 100 series
GXL turbo diesel, manual.

I am very familiar with driving a rigid front suspension 80 series
diesel, experiencing it's awesome wheel articulation all round.
However, earlier this week I dropped by the local ARB shop, where the
salesman bagged the IFS 100 series really badly.  He told me that the
front suspension travel was "nothing like as capable as the 80 series",
and that I should buy a normally aspirated diesel with RFS.  I am not
one of those people that goes looking for trouble and the absolute most
difficult climbs for the sake of it, but have been known to try a
challenge where I think it's possible without risk of damaging the
vehicle, and have loved the ability of the 80 when it comes to keeping
its wheels on the ground.  The 80 I drive has no front or rear diff
locks.  I have only test driven the IFS 100 on road, and found the
handling no comparison to the 80, which is much more truck like.  This
is no doubt largely due to the IFS.  I also want the factory turbo
engine, and the other features that come with the model, so don't want
to buy the normal diesel.  I'd like to know people's opinion of how much
of a downgrade the IFS is in terms of off-road performance.  Is it very
noticeable, or is the difference only apparent in extremely rough stuff,
which would have been close to the limit of travel of the RFS 80 series
anyhow?  If significant, to what extent would fitting ARB air lockers,
rear, or front and rear, restore the performance and rough hill climbing
ability of the RFS 80? Is this a necessity to make the IFS 100 a decent
4WD?

Furthermore he went on to say said that a several people had had trouble
with front suspension mounts cracking, and "the front end falling out of
them", and that Toyota had been rectifying the problem under warranty,
but not as yet issued a recall.  What's the risk of these kind of
problems?

Have the front diff breakage problems mentioned in previous mails been
ironed out on the current model IFS 100 series?  Is this only a risk if
treated very harshly?

Thanks,

David C. Kedge
Canberra, Australia.












To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:54:09 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Reduced wheel articulation of 100 Series IFS compared to RFS 80 Series
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

David,

I had similar reservations when deciding between the normally aspirated
diesel with the live axle, and the turbo diesel with IFS. I was particularly
concerned about the IFS having had an IFS Pajero for the previous 7 years
which spent most of it's time off road with 1 wheel in the air.

After much consideration, I settled on the Turbo diesel because it was
clearly a superior engine, and I kept my fingers crossed with regards to the
IFS.

I now have 90000km on the clock, and have put the vehicle through many
challenging off road situations, and have never yet had a problem with the
IFS front end. To my great surprise and relief, I have found the IFS to be
fantastic. On road handling is great, and off road, I'm yet to stop it.

When the vehicle was still new I took it on a trip to Mt Airley with 8 other
Live Axle Cruisers, some with lockers, and without exception I was able to
traverse the same terrain with a stock IFS as some of the highly modified,
locked up live axles.

Touch wood, I haven't suffered the dreaded failures that I have been hearing
about, but I'm certainly keeping a close eye on them.

Within a few years we are going to see RFS cruisers which everyone will bag
as well, but you watch, they will work OK as well.

Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:24:01 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Reduced wheel articulation of 100 Series IFS compared to RFS 80 Series
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: David Kedge [mailto:dck@netspeed.com.au]


  I am in the decision making stage of preparing to buy a new 100 series
  GXL turbo diesel, manual.

  I am very familiar with driving a rigid front suspension 80 series
  diesel, experiencing it's awesome wheel articulation all round.
  However, earlier this week I dropped by the local ARB shop, where the
  salesman bagged the IFS 100 series really badly.  He told me that the
  front suspension travel was "nothing like as capable as the 80 series",
  and that I should buy a normally aspirated diesel with RFS.

  Thanks,

  David C. Kedge
  Canberra, Australia.



G'day David,

There's no doubt the IFS front end is a compromise, great on road but no as
good as what you've been used to off road. The combination of the IFS, rack
and pinion steering and the auto trans turns what is otherwise a truck into
something that drives like a car.

I can live with the lack of articulation, but the restriction in being able
to lift it to the same 50mm over the RFS stock height we've all been used to
in our 80's (and still maintain downtravel), plus the fatigue problem with
the lower arms has put me off somewhat. The front end won't "fall out", but
you'll be forced to ride on the bump stop to seek help. As Craig has
mentioned ARB / OME have released their beef up kit, but reading the little
editorial on it in 4x4 Aust mag, even they aren't guaranteeing that it's
going to prevent the problem occurring.

It's only in the tougher stuff that you'll suffer off road, situations where
you need the articulation to traverse objects. It's here that the diff locks
will come in handy, as if you can't keep the wheels on the ground as you
have with the 80's travel, you need to be able to maintain drive to those
wheels still touching the ground not the ones in the air. I would be
seriously considering having to fit front and rear lockers to be able to
crawl your new pride and joy over such obstacles, rather than having to run
at it with momentum and risk damage.

Here's a comparo I did a few years ago on suspension articulation between
RFS and IFS:-
http://www.users.bigpond.com/g.goulden/ramp/ramp.html

I don't know of too many front diff failures in IFS 100's, it seems to be
more evident in the RFS trucks. I know one guy with an early petrol GXV that
has blown 2 front diffs, but I'd guess that driving style, large tyres,
plenty of revs and the earlier 2 pinion diff all contributed. I'm not sure
that the IFS diff is a reverse cut like the RFS units - anyone?

I'd also be considering the 5 speed auto when buying, it's a beaut and far
superior to the old 4 speed offering. Have you driven the manual?

Best of luck David.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:23:56 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Reduced wheel articulation of 100 Series IFS compared to RFS 80 Series
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Gidday

Gotta say the 100 FTE with IFS and 5speed Auto is just a dream - love
it!. Go for it without hesitation!

cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au 
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716










To: "100scool@yahoogroups. com" <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:06:11 +1100
Subject: [100scool] Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Guy's,

I've just uploaded a scan about the kit ARB have released to reinforce the
lower control arms of the 100 series IFS models, which appeared in the
December issue of 4x4 Australia magazine. It can be found in the files
section at:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/files/ARB%20IFS%20kit.jpg

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:23:41 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]=20
Sent: Friday, 19 November 2004 2:06 PM

> Hi Guy's,
> 
> I've just uploaded a scan about the kit ARB have released to reinforce the
> lower control arms of the 100 series IFS models, which appeared in the
> December issue of 4x4 Australia magazine. It can be found in the files
> section at:-
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/files/ARB%20IFS%20kit.jpg
>
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.


Any idea of price or ease of installation?

cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au =20
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "John Needs" 
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:47:26 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au]=20

> Any idea of price or ease of installation?
>

$85 including fitting with any OME suspension upgrade

cheers
John










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "cruiserman_80" 
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:29:57 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

From: John Needs [mailto:adslygb0@tpg.com.au]=20
Sent: Friday, 19 November 2004 3:47 PM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au]=20
> > 
> > any idea of price or ease of installation?
> > 

> $85 including fitting with any OME suspension upgrade
> 
> cheers
> John


Plus the cost of voiding your warranty.
I know its been a while and the issue of IFS failure on 100 series has been
discussed a bit, I am yet to get a definitive picture of how widespread this
is. Other then the two examples on the members pages everything else is
rumour.

Any chance of a new poll perhaps?  with feedback only on failures that
members have direct knowledge of (no hearsay). Would also like to know build
month/year, suspension mods, bar/winch etc

Cheers Craig
96DX for sale
HDJ100R 04 TD GXL MAN
ARB Deluxe Bar w Warn XD9000 Winch
IPF Fogs + 740 HIR Lights
Rear Locker with ARB Compressor
Dtronic, Safari Snorkel, OME Torsion Bars.
8-D))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Hoo




To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "John Needs" 
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:51:18 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: cruiserman_80 [mailto:cruiserman_80@exemail.com.au]=20

> Plus the cost of voiding your warranty.


According to Toyota last week, a suspension related warranty claim will
be denied if ANY part of suspension is non standard including shocks,
springs, torsion bars or the ARB reinforcement kit. So its down to
living with the stock setup for 3 years which not many of us will do, or
making sensible changes, monitoring known issues closely and dealing
with arising problems without Toyota.

cheers
John









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "bowp605" 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:10:42 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "cruiserman_80"=20
 wrote:
> Plus the cost of voiding your warranty.
> I know its been a while and the issue of IFS failure on 100 series has been
> discussed a bit, I am yet to get a definitive picture of how widespread this
> is. Other then the two examples on the members pages everything else is
> rumour.
>
>
> Any chance of a new poll perhaps?  with feedback only on failures that
> members have direct knowledge of (no hearsay). Would also like to know build
> month/year, suspension mods, bar/winch etc
>
> Cheers Craig
> 96DX for sale
> HDJ100R 04 TD GXL MAN


G'day Craig

I'm new to this forum so hope I give some of info you seek.

Have just suffered LH Control arm failure / cracking. Toyota service
dept called while vehicle in for 40K service (@43K) to advise of
problem and that as vehicle had modified suspension would not fix
under warranty.

Fitted OME shocks and torsion bars to front and OME shocks and 200
Ib springs to rear. Just travelled 15,000 K's with modified
suspension with hardest roads being Tanami Track, Access Rd to Cape
Leveque, Gibb River Rd, Access Rd to Cobourg Peninsula(2 ways) and
Central Arnhem Rd (2 ways). Towed camper trailer and vehicle heavily
laden with 3 adults, 2 kids and bikes.

Cracking has only just started. Vehicle booked for fitment of ARB
reinforcement kit Thursday.

hope this helps answer your question.

Peter B.

HDJ100R GXL TD Man Oct '03
ARB B/Bar 10,000 winch








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "epajls" 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:46:02 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "bowp605"  wrote:

>
> G'day Craig
>
> I'm new to this forum so hope I give some of info you seek.
>
> Have just suffered LH Control arm failure / cracking. Toyota service
> dept called while vehicle in for 40K service (@43K) to advise of
> problem and that as vehicle had modified suspension would not fix
> under warranty.
>
> Fitted OME shocks and torsion bars to front and OME shocks and 200
> Ib springs to rear. Just travelled 15,000 K's with modified
> suspension with hardest roads being Tanami Track, Access Rd to Cape
> Leveque, Gibb River Rd, Access Rd to Cobourg Peninsula(2 ways) and
> Central Arnhem Rd (2 ways). Towed camper trailer and vehicle heavily
> laden with 3 adults, 2 kids and bikes.
>
> Cracking has only just started. Vehicle booked for fitment of ARB
> reinforcement kit Thursday.
>
> hope this helps answer your question.
>
> Peter B.
>
> HDJ100R GXL TD Man Oct '03
> ARB B/Bar 10,000 winch


Peter,

I'm suprised that Toyota refused to repair it under warranty. This=20
problem I believe has also surfaced on vehicles that don't have=20
after market suspension. The Toyota dealer in Brisbane, Motorama,=20
even sells after makrket suspension to their customers (TJM). I=20
would find it strange if they would sell something that voids the=20
warranty. If I was you I would harass them and get them to explain=20
how the aftermarket suspension could cause the failure.

Cheers
/Kim








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:49:44 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: Uploaded file - ARB IFS kit
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: bowp605 [mailto:peter.bowman@raywhite.com]


  G'day Craig

  I'm new to this forum so hope I give some of info you seek.

  Have just suffered LH Control arm failure / cracking. Toyota service
  dept called while vehicle in for 40K service (@43K) to advise of
  problem and that as vehicle had modified suspension would not fix
  under warranty.

  Fitted OME shocks and torsion bars to front and OME shocks and 200
  Ib springs to rear. Just travelled 15,000 K's with modified
  suspension with hardest roads being Tanami Track, Access Rd to Cape
  Leveque, Gibb River Rd, Access Rd to Cobourg Peninsula(2 ways) and
  Central Arnhem Rd (2 ways). Towed camper trailer and vehicle heavily
  laden with 3 adults, 2 kids and bikes.

  Cracking has only just started. Vehicle booked for fitment of ARB
  reinforcement kit Thursday.

  hope this helps answer your question.

  Peter B.

  HDJ100R GXL TD Man Oct '03
  ARB B/Bar 10,000 winch



Hi Peter,

Welcome to the 100sCool group!

So the dealer found the cracking at the 40k service, but weren't prepared t=
o
replace under warranty? So was the arm replaced? My understanding of
warranty is that the trade practices act states that the onus is on the
manufacturer to prove the non-std part was at fault before they can deny
warranty. Of course it all depends on how far you want to push things, as i=
t
could get messy.

It's interesting that they were in fact looking in that area to start with =
-
a good sign that Toyota has made dealers aware that there has been problems
in that area!

Did you contact ARB / OME for their opinion on the matter, as I think we'd
all be interested in this. Would they pick up the tab for the replacement
arm... I think not, as the arms are around the $700 mark IIRC.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Taylor, Robert (ERA)" 
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:40:28 +0930
Subject: RE: [100scool] Database - IFS failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2004 2:32 PM

> Craig and All,
> 
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/database , select "100 IFS
> failures" and enter away. The problem seems to be widespread, and I doubt
> there's a 4x4 shop or accessory outlet that hasn't heard of it occurring. I
> know of one 4x4 accessory outlet who has seen 3 failed vehicles, one vehicle
> of which is an aftermarket accessory manufacturer on a 4x4 magazine's trip
> ;-)
> 
> If we had some concrete data, it would be worth approaching Toyota for
> comment I think.
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.

I have the same build and month as Peter B and have not seen anything(yet) 
on mine. I did ring MrToyota in Melbourne(?) and went through this issue and 
was told they have not heard of anthing at all and they have no bulletins
 on the subject to substantiate any of it.
Head in the sand maybe?
I actaully went on to tell him that i would be mighty P**sed if i got stuck
the other side of nowhere with this problem and all he could say was "dont
mistreat your vehicle and it wont happen", now that line was used along with 
similar comments to above when front diff failures were my topic with him 
as well!!!

Come on Mr Toyota, i am not a rock crawler and dont want to trash a $70k 
vehicle, but i do want to use it for what i thought it was intended for, long
outback travel which will include offroad work of the medium/heavy type for 
short periods.

Fess up and fix the problems.

Rob, Darwin,NT
2003 TD Manual
Warn XD9500i
TDRalphs and OME
2xARB compressors,ARB rack
285 BFG AT's








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Gary Weatherley" 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:20:30 -0000
Subject: [100scool] IFS A Arm Falure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

I'm obviously following this issue with keen interest. Having OME
TBars myself - nearly 20,000ks so far and no problems.

I was advised that the best course of action was to ask Toyota to
put in writing that they were not prepared to cover the failure
under warranty.

The person advising me (I think he was a ARB guy) said in every case
they had done this Toyota had honoured the warranty.

Gaz

2004 HDJ100R (Auto)
ABR Bar/Warn 9.5XP/OME Suspension/Light Force 240/Snorkel/TX3400=20
UHF/Dick Cepek 285/75/16's/Front & Rear Air Lockers/25Lts of onboard=20
air storage
Melbourne











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Peter Bowman" 
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:04:14 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Database - IFS failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2004 2:32 PM

  -----Original Message-----
> From: cruiserman_80 [mailto:cruiserman_80@exemail.com.au]
> > 
> > Any chance of a new poll perhaps?  with feedback only on failures that
> > members have direct knowledge of (no hearsay). Would also like to know
> > build month/year, suspension mods, bar/winch etc
> > 
> > Cheers Craig
> > 
>
> Craig and All,
> 
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/database , select "100 IFS
> failures" and enter away. The problem seems to be widespread, and I doubt
> there's a 4x4 shop or accessory outlet that hasn't heard of it occurring. I
> know of one 4x4 accessory outlet who has seen 3 failed vehicles, one vehicle
> of which is an aftermarket accessory manufacturer on a 4x4 magazine's trip
> ;-)
> 
> If we had some concrete data, it would be worth approaching Toyota for
> comment I think.
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.


Hi Greg,

Went looking for a poll as suggested and couldn't find it.  Didn't know
about database facility.  Have just added my relevant info. Hope this type
of resource through the group has the desired results.

I have taken note of the comments from everyone about approach with Toyota
re. warranty claim.  I will keep you posted with results from a more
aggressive approach with them.

Thanks to all.

Regards
Peter B.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:43:53 +1100
Subject: [100scool] IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Everyone,

It would appear (don't ask me how I know) that as far as Toyota has
ascertained, there has been no failures of control arms on standard
vehicles, only those which have been altered from standard. Failures appear
to have been reported only on modifed  (i.e. the fitment of non-genuine
components, or adjustment / repositioning of the torsion bar splines)
vehicles, and of which have "been operated in severe conditions".

If anyone here has direct experience of a failure of an unmodified vehicle,
they should speak up now!

Dealers are inspecting the arms during routine vehicle service, and have
been requested to feedback any damage detected, along with any modifications
found. If any modifications are detected, the original vehicle warranty will
not apply and the owner should contact the supplier of the aftermarket parts
fitted.

I know another 100sCool member who phoned and asked Toyota on this issue if
the fitment of bullbars, winches and the like would void the warranty, and
the response was "no". So it would seem that although we're able to load the
vehicle with these extra accessories which add weight directly over the
front-end, we're not even able to adjust the suspension to maintain the
original ride height AND maintain warranty.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "cruiserman_80" 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:46:10 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

It would be a bit hard for Toyota to reneg on warranty for bar and winch
when they supply both as Toyota branded accessories for IFS cruisers.
Anyway I have retained ny original torsion bars as they may need to go back
in one day ;-).

Cheers Craig
96DX for sale
HDJ100R 04 TD GXL MAN
ARB Deluxe Bar /Warn XD9000 Winch
IPF Fogs + 740 HIR Lights
Rear Locker with ARB Compressor
Dtronic, Safari Snorkel, OME Torsion Bars..........Did I say OME I meant
OEM...really ;-).











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Stefan Kossen" 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:01:36 +1000
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: cruiserman_80 [mailto:cruiserman_80@exemail.com.au]=20
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2004 10:46 PM

> It would be a bit hard for Toyota to reneg on warranty for bar and winch
> when they supply both as Toyota branded accessories for IFS cruisers.
> Anyway I have retained ny original torsion bars as they may need to go
> back
> in one day ;- ).


Hi,

We have taken 4 Cruiser over some very rough terrain, that caused the
failure of Lovell's coils in the back of my ridged axle Cruiser, and It
also cracked my ARB bullbar mounts
One of the IFS Cruiser also snapped a rear factory spring with Polyair
inside.
He also had a twin carrier on the back, and was the heaviest loaded.

Mine is a ridged front axle, but the other three were all IFS TD's
Two of them were lifted by winding up torsion bars, and one was left
untouched.
None of them are showing signs of cracking.
So maybe Toyota is right, and it is caused by the upgraded torsion
bars/shock absorber combination?

Would anybody have a photo of the cracks, to ensure I am looking in the
right place?

Cheers,

Stefan.










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Drexx Laggui 
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 02:13:50 +0800
Subject: Re: [100scool] IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:43:53 +1100, Greg Goulden  wrote:
>
> It would appear (don't ask me how I know) that as far as Toyota has
> ascertained, there has been no failures of control arms on standard
> vehicles, only those which have been altered from standard. Failures appear
> to have been reported only on modifed  (i.e. the fitment of non-genuine
> components, or adjustment / repositioning of the torsion bar splines)
> vehicles, and of which have "been operated in severe conditions".
>
> If anyone here has direct experience of a failure of an unmodified vehicle,
> they should speak up now!
>
> Dealers are inspecting the arms during routine vehicle service, and have
> been requested to feedback any damage detected, along with any modifications
> found. If any modifications are detected, the original vehicle warranty will
> not apply and the owner should contact the supplier of the aftermarket parts
> fitted.
>
> I know another 100sCool member who phoned and asked Toyota on this issue if
> the fitment of bullbars, winches and the like would void the warranty, and
> the response was "no". So it would seem that although we're able to load the
> vehicle with these extra accessories which add weight directly over the
> front-end, we're not even able to adjust the suspension to maintain the
> original ride height AND maintain warranty.
>
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.


01Dec2004 (UTC +8)

G'day Greg,

I recently had my 60,000mi (about 100,00km) service schedule done, and
I guess the good news is that I haven't seen any cracks in the IFS. I
have the Sway-A-Way torsion bars, OME LTR's, and the ARB Sahara bar
and dual-batteries to load up the front end. And I haven't exactly
been driving the UZJ-100 like I had a fresh egg under the gas pedal
either...


Drexx Laggui - TLCA #11841; 4x4PH #11
UZJ-100; FZJ-80; HDJ-80; LN-166
Metro Manila, Philippines
http://www.pbase.com/drexx










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Graham" 
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 00:12:36 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Kossen"  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have taken 4 Cruiser over some very rough terrain, that caused the
> failure of Lovell's coils in the back of my ridged axle Cruiser, and It
> also cracked my ARB bullbar mounts
> One of the IFS Cruiser also snapped a rear factory spring with Polyair
> inside.
> He also had a twin carrier on the back, and was the heaviest loaded.
>
> Mine is a ridged front axle, but the other three were all IFS TD's
> Two of them were lifted by winding up torsion bars, and one was left
> untouched.
> None of them are showing signs of cracking.
> So maybe Toyota is right, and it is caused by the upgraded torsion
> bars/shock absorber combination.
>
> Would anybody have a photo of the cracks, to ensure I am looking in the
> right place? 
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan.
>

Stefan,

Have a look in the phots section at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst?.dir=3D/100+series+IFS+failures&.src=3Dgr&.order=3D&.view=3Dt&.done=3Dhttp%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

Graham tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:26:40 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Graham [mailto:bellbirdweb@yahoo.com.au]

  --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Kossen"  wrote:
  >
  > Would anybody have a photo of the cracks, to ensure I am looking in
  > the right place?
  >
  > Cheers,
  >
  > Stefan.

  Stefan,

  Have a look in the phots section at
  http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst?.dir=3D/100+series+IFS+failures&.src=3Dgr&.order=3D&.view=3Dt&.done=3Dhttp%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

  Graham tait
  HDJ100+++
  Sydney



Thanks Graham,

Yes Stefan, please look in the photos section at:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/  , and then click on the 2nd
folder called "100 series IFS failures". (Why does Yahoo have to make the
URL's so loooong?)
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.

PS. Stefan, you'd have to admit you've had no luck with springs?











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:38:47 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS discussion
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Drexx Laggui [mailto:drexxl@gmail.com]

  G'day Greg,

  I recently had my 60,000mi (about 100,00km) service schedule done, and
  I guess the good news is that I haven't seen any cracks in the IFS. I
  have the Sway-A-Way torsion bars, OME LTR's, and the ARB Sahara bar
  and dual-batteries to load up the front end. And I haven't exactly
  been driving the UZJ-100 like I had a fresh egg under the gas pedal
  either...




Hi Drexx,

Any egg under your pedal would have been well and truly mashed by now (I've
seen the pics of the flying black 100 ;-)

As far as I'm aware, the problem has only shown up on the turbo diesel
models. I guess the extra weight of the diesel over the V8, plus the longer
I6 engine seeing the weight distribtion further forward obviously has an
greater effect on the front suspension loading.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.











To: "100scool@yahoogroups. com" <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:59:05 +1100
Subject: [100scool] More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Guy's,

On Saturday afternoon we had reason to pull apart a 100 IFS front-end to do
some "preventative" modifications (which we'll go more into later), but I've
uploaded a couple more pics to the "IFS failures" folder in the photo
section.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst?.dir=3D/100+series+IFS+failures

If you look at the last 2 photo's, you'll see that the cracks have just
started to appear in the welds of the area the eventual failure occurs.

Once again, although dealers have been advised to inspect this area during
routine service, for those that do their own maintenance or have others do
for them, check your lower arms where the torsion bar adapter bolts on!

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:48:59 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Gidday all,

I was speaking to the ARB guys at the weekend. Their take on the IFS
failures have been caused by "excessive" bottoming out, sand dune
leaping, hitting washouts at speed etc. Their theory is that the the arm
goes up, hits the bump stop and the force is transferred by leaver
effect to the inner mounting point. Sounds reasonable. Their theory then
goes on to suggest that cranking up the bars or replacing them with
heavier ones will stop the bottoming out and hence the failures. Or of
course to buy the ARB IFS upgrade...


cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au =20
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:56:40 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au]

  Gidday all,

  I was speaking to the ARB guys at the weekend. Their take on the IFS
  failures have been caused by "excessive" bottoming out, sand dune
  leaping, hitting washouts at speed etc. Their theory is that the the arm
  goes up, hits the bump stop and the force is transferred by leaver
  effect to the inner mounting point. Sounds reasonable. Their theory then
  goes on to suggest that cranking up the bars or replacing them with
  heavier ones will stop the bottoming out and hence the failures. Or of
  course to buy the ARB IFS upgrade...


  cheers
  brian



Hi Brian,

I've heard that theory before, and thought about it plenty, and stared from
under the vehicle Saturday but still can't see it. The torsion bar fixes to
the arm right on the pivot point. The bump stop is maybe 300mm from the
pivot point, but I fail to understand how the stress from hitting the
bumpstop is transferred to where the arm fatigues and cracks at the opposite
side to the pivot point. Sure the stress on that point is increased the
closer you get to the bump stop as the spring / torsion bar fights to raise
the vehicle to normal.

It's quite obvious from the Toyota bulletin that they don't subscribe to
ARB's theory. If keeping the vehicle off the bumpstop(s) was seen to improve
the arms durability, surely Toyota wouldn't have come out with "any vehicle
found to have non standard torsion bars, or original bars adjusted above
spec - Toyota warranty will not apply".

I see it as a fatigue issue, the weight of the TD, combined with road
conditions, and the greater stress on the bar mounting points due to
increased spring force from uprated t/bars seem to be the cause. Toyota
could also have welded the arms in such a fashion as to not create the
stress point they have too IMO.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Paul Klat" 
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:31:32 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

> I've
> uploaded a couple more pics to the "IFS failures" folder in the photo
> section.
>
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst?.dir=3D/100+series+IFS+failures
>
> If you look at the last 2 photo's, you'll see that the cracks have just
> started to appear.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb.

I have tried to get on to the photos but can`t access them.I get the=20
message that `the page is not available` .I looked in the photos area=20
and can`t see it there either.Maybe I am not doing things  correctly?
Any help appreciated.













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "S & T McGuigan" 
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:09:11 +1000
Subject: Re: [100scool] Re: More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Klat
  To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:31 PM
  Subject: [100scool] Re: More IFS front arm pics

  I have tried to get on to the photos but can`t access them.I get the=20
  message that `the page is not available` .I looked in the photos area=20
  and can`t see it there either.Maybe I am not doing things  correctly?
  Any help appreciated.


Ditto











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:17:41 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Paul Klat [mailto:dieseltojo@yahoo.com]


  I have tried to get on to the photos but can`t access them.I get the
  message that `the page is not available` .I looked in the photos area
  and can`t see it there either.Maybe I am not doing things  correctly?
  Any help appreciated.


Paul,

The link in the previous message had the last bit seperated onto the next
line. You need to either cut and paste that into your browser, or simply go
the the photos section http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst ,
then click on the 2nd folder "100 series IFS failures", and then look at th=
e
last 2 pictures.

You will need your YAHOO details to log in...

Regards,

Greg.

PS. Don't be afraid to add a name / signature to your post ;-)







[Note WJ:] try this one:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst?.dir=/100+series+IFS+failures&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/
















To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "montocr" 
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:36:55 -0000
Subject: [100scool] replacement a arms for 100 - who would be interested
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

It would be great to have these, but I dont think the us has a large=20
enough market.  Perhaps with demand from the folks down under.  They=20
said with enough inqueries they may do it.  try=20
chaosfab.com


http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=3D29036









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Paul Klat" 
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:46:09 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More IFS front arm pics
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Goulden"  wrote:
> Paul,
>
> The link in the previous message had the last bit seperated onto the next
> line. You need to either cut and paste that into your browser, or simply go
> the the photos section http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/lst ,
> then click on the 2nd folder "100 series IFS failures", and then look at the
> last 2 pictures.
>
> You will need your YAHOO details to log in...
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg.
>
> PS. Don't be afraid to add a name / signature to your post ;-)

Greg .Thanks for the help to view the pics.it was of course my inept
computering.I have been following your IFS info closley and
appreciate the effort you and others put in to presenting this
information.
Regards Paul Klat.













To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "brembo_au" 
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:16:03 -0000
Subject: [100scool] More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

I took my 2004 T/D cruiser into Pedders last week for a wheel alignment.

I have previously fitted rock crawler T/bars and Ralph shocks

As expected they told me about the lower control arm failures and told me a few stories
about hire firms and Mining companies in Far north Qld and the problems they have had.


They have just released a bracing kit for the T/Bars to prevent the arms cracking. Cost $90
fitted. It is effectively a plate and sleve which fits between the T/B mounting plate and the
arm. No drilling / welding / structural change. just pull the mounting plate off insert the
sleve and bolt it back up.

They said that a few firms that have dealt with on the Cape and Far north Qld had
previously had multiple failures but since the release of these new strengthening kits they
have had no failures. So I had them fitted and well heres hoping with my fingers crossed.







To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:15:46 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "brembo_au"  wrote:
>
> They have just released a bracing kit for the T/Bars to prevent the arms cracking. Cost $90
> fitted. It is effectively a plate and sleve which fits between the T/B mounting plate and the
> arm. No drilling / welding / structural change. just pull the mounting plate off insert the 
> sleve and bolt it back up.
>
> They said that a few firms that have dealt with on the Cape and Far north Qld had
> previously had multiple failures but since the release of these new strengthening kits they
> have had no failures. So I had them fitted and well heres hoping with my fingers crossed.


Hi Anon,

Would you have a name, location, or any pictures of your
strengthening kit in place to share with other group members please?

You could upload pics to the IFS failures photo folder.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "brembo_au" 
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:28:28 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Goulden"  wrote:
>
> Hi Anon,
>
> Would you have a name, location, or any pictures of your
> strengthening kit in place to share with other group members please?
>
> You could upload pics to the IFS failures photo folder.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
>

I will try and take some photos but as the part fits between the mounting plate for the
torsion bar and the mounting face / inside the lower control arm there is very little to see
externally.

As far as the name of the part is concernd, it is a standard Pedders part which is available I
gather nationally, The dealer showed me a technical bulletin which included included
photos of failures ect.


Will upload photos when I get a chance to take some and if they show anything


Regards


Gareth Bosley









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "phil" 
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:52:17 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Goulden"  wrote:
>
> Hi Anon,
>
> Would you have a name, location, or any pictures of your
> strengthening kit in place to share with other group members please?
>
> You could upload pics to the IFS failures photo folder.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
>

Greg,

I've uploaded a photo of the kit into your album.  Came from:
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/gallery/heftymerv/abw

Also, the broken arm I reported from the Madigan Line - just a
follow up - the arm was replaced at Birdsville - the owner didn't
bother trying for a warranty claim as he had ARB torsion bars fitted
and just wanted to get on with his holiday.

Cheers
Phil
2002 HDJ79










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Michael Hughes" 
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:56:25 +0930
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: phil [mailto:pgaukrog@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, 19 December 2004 6:22 PM

> Greg,
> 
> I've uploaded a photo of the kit into your album.  Came from:
> http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/gallery/heftymerv/abw
> 
> Also, the broken arm I reported from the Madigan Line - just a
> follow up - the arm was replaced at Birdsville - the owner didn't
> bother trying for a warranty claim as he had ARB torsion bars fitted
> and just wanted to get on with his holiday.
> 
> Cheers
> Phil
> 2002 HDJ79


Phil,

            You were looking at my pics..  Good to see.



Merv
93 Diesel Poverty Pac
Darwin, AUS













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:16:38 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
 -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hughes [mailto:hefty-merv@netspace.net.au]

  -----Original Message-----
  From: phil [mailto:pgaukrog@bigpond.net.au]

> >   Greg,
> > 
> >   I've uploaded a photo of the kit into your album.  Came from:
> >   http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/gallery/heftymerv/abw
> >
> 
>   Phil,
> 
>              You were looking at my pics..  Good to see.
>
>
>  Merv
>  93 Diesel Poverty Pac
>  Darwin, AUS


Merv / Phil,

I wonder where you got a [crooked] scan like that from? I originally put it
in the files section:- http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/files/    ;-)))

Greg.






To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:20:42 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Bellbirdweb [mailto:bellbirdweb@yahoo.com.au]

>  Phil.,
>
>  How much is the ARB kit, and what it involved in fitting.
>
>  I haven't had any problem as yet, but it might be worthwhile trying to stop
>  it before it happens.
>
>  Graham Tait


Graham,

The ARB kit is quite cheap at around $25, and I sourced the one I fitted
from the Lcool Simpson Double Crossing "friendly sponsor" Dave Sheridan.

The fitting job is a bit more involved, and is as much work as replacing the
torsion bars as you have to remove them and their mounting adaptors. With
enough tools and the car supported on stands it's probably about a 2 hour
job. We took the whole afternoon as we removed the lower arms, fixed the
cracks and welded the brackets on rather than drilling and bolting. We then
refitted the arms and fitted new torsion bars in the process.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.















To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:26:41 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]=20
Sent: Monday, 20 December 2004 08:21

> Graham,
> 
> The ARB kit is quite cheap at around $25, and I sourced the one I fitted
> from the Lcool Simpson Double Crossing "friendly sponsor" Dave Sheridan.
> 
> The fitting job is a bit more involved, and is as much work as replacing the
> torsion bars as you have to remove them and their mounting adaptors. With
> enough tools and the car supported on stands it's probably about a 2 hour
> job. We took the whole afternoon as we removed the lower arms, fixed the
> cracks and welded the brackets on rather than drilling and bolting. We then
> refitted the arms and fitted new torsion bars in the process.
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.

Thanks for that Greg,

I was hoping it might have been a little more simple to fit.

I'm good on the electrical dept., but most of the mechanicals I leave to the
people who are good at swinging the spanners around.

Graham
HDJ100+++
Sydney

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com =20
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
**********************************************=20










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Michael Hughes" 
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:01:01 +0930
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]
Sent: Monday, 20 December 2004 6:47 AM

> Merv / Phil,
> 
> I wonder where you got a [crooked] scan like that from? I originally put it
> in the files section:- http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/100scool/files/    ;-)))
> 
> Greg.

There's always someone to ruin it..lol

It just happened to come up at the same time on another forum.


Merv
93 Diesel Poverty Pac
Darwin, AUS









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:49:52 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]=20
Sent: Monday, 20 December 2004 08:21

> Graham,
> 
> The ARB kit is quite cheap at around $25, and I sourced the one I fitted
> from the Lcool Simpson Double Crossing "friendly sponsor" Dave Sheridan.
> 
> The fitting job is a bit more involved, and is as much work as replacing the
> torsion bars as you have to remove them and their mounting adaptors. With
> enough tools and the car supported on stands it's probably about a 2 hour
> job. We took the whole afternoon as we removed the lower arms, fixed the
> cracks and welded the brackets on rather than drilling and bolting. We then
> refitted the arms and fitted new torsion bars in the process.
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.


I notice in this months Australian 4WD Monthly (Page 15), there is a photo
of a catastrophic IFS failure that happened on the Anne Beadell highway in
WA.

The reader there is also asking anyone who has had a front IFS failure to
email him at jockmac@senet.com.au (obviously having words with Mr Toyota)

Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney


**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com =20
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
**********************************************=20








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Derek Lee 
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:32:03 -0800
Subject: Re: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:49:52 +1100, Bellbirdweb
 wrote:
>  I notice in this months Australian 4WD Monthly (Page 15), there is a photo
>  of a catastrophic IFS failure that happened on the Anne Beadell highway in
>  WA.
>
>  The reader there is also asking anyone who has had a front IFS failure to
>  email him at jockmac@senet.com.au (obviously having words with Mr Toyota)


Guys -

Anyone know if these kits are available in the States?  If not, I
assume ARBUSA can get them?  Not that I abuse my truck much (yet) but
I'm always looking to shore things up!

Thanks,
___________________________
Derek Lee
`86 W201 190E 2.3-16
`90 R129 500SL
`94 FZJ80 Land Cruiser (w/ stuff)
`04 UZJ100 Land Cruiser (grocery-getter)
Elk Grove, CA, USA








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Walter Bevilacqua" 
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 06:43:10 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Bellbirdweb" 
wrote:
> I notice in this months Australian 4WD Monthly (Page 15), there is a photo
> of a catastrophic IFS failure that happened on the Anne Beadell highway in
> WA.
>
>


Hopefully Toyota will get enough flack to do something about such a
dangerous problem, saying they will not warranty if any modifications
have been made is absurd. It is time they had a good look at the
issue before someone suffers a major incident which could be
lifethreatening.

Walter MEL
100 TDI









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:34:45 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Bellbirdweb" 
wrote:
> I notice in this months Australian 4WD Monthly (Page 15), there is a photo
> of a catastrophic IFS failure that happened on the Anne Beadell highway in
> WA.
>
> The reader there is also asking anyone who has had a front IFS failure to
> email him at jockmac@s... (obviously having words with Mr Toyota)
>
> Graham Tait

G'day Graham,

I've just opened my 4WD Monthly to see the letter and picture you
mention. In Toyota's defence, the root cause of that failure was the
shocker coming apart. In this case it was an OME LTR shock (as
clearly seen in the picture) of which the bottom eye became
detached.

As the shock absorber is also the down travel limiter in this case
(just like a live axle), there was no stop for the suspension when
he's gone over a bump and the top ball joint appears to have parted
company allowing the front wheel to lay horizontally under the car.

I feel the days of old have gone, where one could buy a Landcruiser
knowing it was over-engineered, and that oversize tyres, suspension
lifts and the such had little or no impact to the durability of the
vehicle.

Merry Christmas.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb.











To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "epajls" 
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:13:40 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Walter Bevilacqua"
 wrote:
>
> Hopefully Toyota will get enough flack to do something about such a
> dangerous problem, saying they will not warranty if any modifications
> have been made is absurd. It is time they had a good look at the 
> issue before someone suffers a major incident which could be
> lifethreatening.
>
> Walter MEL
> 100 TDI


I recently sent an email to Toyota and ask for clarification on this
issue. This the reply I got:

Dear Mr Olsson,


Toyota Australia have recently become aware of reports of damage to
lower control arms on Toyota L/C 100 series fitted with IFS front
suspension where non genuine front suspension modifications or
suspension setting changes have been made and where the vehicle has
then been operated in severe conditions.
The L/C 100 series IFS suspension has been available on L/C 100
series since 1998, but these damage reports have only been received
recently, coinciding with the widespread availability of modified
suspension components for this suspension version.
Toyota is actively investigating these damage reports as part of our
ongoing product quality monitoring processes and will provide
further advice to our dealers and customers as soon as possible.
Toyota dealers will inspect any vehicle presented with this
condition and if damage is confirmed on vehicles with modified
suspensions, customers will be advised to discuss the matter with
the supplier of the modified components.
In some instances Toyota have recovered damaged parts from customers
through our warranty process in order to assist in our
investigations.

Hope this is of assistance.


Ian Chenney
Customer Relations Adviser
CFDD
Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Limited
Fax:   02 9710 3955
Email: Ian.Chenney@toyota.com.au


Feel free to email Toyota and ask them why LC100s with IFS are
unable to be fitted with a bullbar, winch, and driven in the great
Australian bush. It's time to turn up the heat.











To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "epajls" 
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:53:04 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

I sent the following reply to Toyota Australia:

Dear Mr Chenney,

Thank you for your prompt reply in clarifying issues regarding IFS
front end failures. I'm glad to hear that Toyota is investigating
the issue. I am disappointed though that the mighty Landcruiser is,
until further notice, relegated to bitumen and can no longer be
fitted with a bulbar, winch (which requires an appropriate
suspension upgrade to handle the extra load) and driven in our
wonderful Australian outback in a manner that the Landcruiser has
done for decades.

I would strongly argue that there's very little correlation between=
aftermarket suspension upgrades and front end failures. Especially
since most suspension upgrades were made by world renowned 4wd
suspension specialist and were balanced to the load and intended
purpose. As I mentioned previously, once a bulbar and winch is=20
fitted, the suspension have to be upgraded to handle the extra load.
Otherwise the front suspension would bottom out and would ultimately
cause damage to the vehicle. The most likely correlation between
aftermarket suspension and front end failures is that owners of
those vehicles were using them in a way the Landcruiser is currently
advertised to be used. Since the early IFS Landcruiser were fitted
to the luxury GXV model, and very few of them were sold, it is not
until now that the IFS is in the GXL model range that it finally
gets used the way Landcruiser always has been used and from where it
derives its well earned reputation for robustness and reliability.
And it is that reputation that drove me, among others, to buy a
Landcruiser in the first place. How many GXVs do you know who have
crossed the Simpson, toured the Flinders ranges, or explored the
wonderful Cape York? Certainly not enough to make a meaningful
comparison.

Since the move to IFS, nothing was mentioned that the new
Landcruiser was no longer able to be used like the old with solid
front end were being used. The phrase used, if I remember correctly,
was IFS and not buts. The solid axel Landcruiser never experienced
any front end failures like the new IFS Landcruiser does and
reputable aftermarket suspension upgrades has been available for the
solid axel Landcruiser long before IFS was introduced with the GXV.

As an avid contributor and member of LCOOL (Landcruiser owners on-
line), Overlander forum and 4wd monthly forum this issue is
currently a very hot topic and I feel this issue is already starting
to have a negative impact on the perception of the mighty
Landcruiser. I sincerely hope that this issue will be resolved in a
satisfactory matter. Otherwise someone sold me the wrong vehicle.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Sincerely,
Kim Olsson









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:09:50 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: epajls [mailto:kolsson@ballsolutions.com]


  I sent the following reply to Toyota Australia:

  Dear Mr Chenney,

  Thank you for your prompt reply in clarifying issues regarding IFS
  front end failures. I'm glad to hear that Toyota is investigating
  the issue. I am disappointed though that the mighty Landcruiser is,
  until further notice, relegated to bitumen and can no longer be
  fitted with a bulbar, winch (which requires an appropriate
  suspension upgrade to handle the extra load) and driven in our
  wonderful Australian outback in a manner that the Landcruiser has
  done for decades.

   


Kim,

Nice letter - I wonder what sort of reply you'll get? Their initial reply to
you was one I have seen a couple of times, and closely resembles that of the
technical bulletin issued to dealers.

You could have also added something about their advertising of the LC100 -
pulling horsefloats up high country trails, or being driven by a snake bite
victim across the outback, or being abused [eg. 79 with airborne wheels
IIRC] by their current "star" Steve Erwin.

I'd also like an explanation of their wording "where the vehicle has been
operated in severe conditions".

It would be nice for an engineer to also appraise the way the arms are
welded - I'm no qualified welder or boiler maker but I was taught to finish
the weld bead appropriately and make a pool at the end instead of a crater.
Even finishing the bead at the end of the join would help I'm sure.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.













To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "epajls" 
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:27:19 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Goulden"  wrote:
> Kim,
>
> Nice letter - I wonder what sort of reply you'll get?

Thanks, Greg!

I'm eagerly awaiting their reply. If more people could email Toyota
as well, i.e. putting some more heat on them, I think it would show
them that we're reasonably organised and that they're not dealing
with unrelated individuals. I'll post the reply as soon as I get it.

Cheers
/Kim










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "epajls" 
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:27:48 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


I just received this reply from Toyota.


Dear Mr Olsson,
As to clarify for you, our position regarding this concern.

The new car warranty only covers vehicle with original equipment,
any modification that has caused damage to a component would need to
be addressed by the supplier of the after-market components as per
previous email.



Ian Chenney
Customer Relations Adviser
CFDD
Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Limited
Fax:   02 9710 3955
Email: Ian.Chenney@toyota.com.au











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:48:27 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: epajls [mailto:kolsson@ballsolutions.com]=20
Sent: Friday, 24 December 2004 09:28

> I just received this reply from Toyota.
> 
> Dear Mr Olsson,
> As to clarify for you, our position regarding this concern.
> 
> The new car warranty only covers vehicle with original equipment,=20
> any modification that has caused damage to a component would need to=20
> be addressed by the supplier of the after-market components as per=20
> previous email.=20
> 
> 
> 
> Ian Chenney
> Customer Relations Adviser
> CFDD
> Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Limited
> Fax:   02 9710 3955
> Email: Ian.Chenney@toyota.com.au


Of course Toyota would need to prove that it was the aftermarket component
that caused the failure, and not their inadequate suspension design.

Would need someone with the money to challenge them if push came to shove.

Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com =20
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
**********************************************=20










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "peter" 
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:32:30 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Goulden"  wrote:
> Graham,
> 
> The ARB kit is quite cheap at around $25, and I sourced the one I fitted
> from the Lcool Simpson Double Crossing "friendly sponsor" Dave Sheridan.
> 
> The fitting job is a bit more involved, and is as much work as replacing the
> torsion bars as you have to remove them and their mounting adaptors. With
> enough tools and the car supported on stands it's probably about a 2 hour
> job. We took the whole afternoon as we removed the lower arms, fixed the
> cracks and welded the brackets on rather than drilling and bolting. We then
> refitted the arms and fitted new torsion bars in the process.
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.

Greg,
When you fitted the strengthening brackets from ARB to the control 
arm did you take any photos to look at ??
Im looking at fitting the brackets also. Ever ARB or Pedders.
Im waiting for a reply about info from pedders on there brackets.As 
I have seen ARB.

peter








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:12:57 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: peter [mailto:pffreeman@dart.net.au]


  Greg,
  When you fitted the strengthening brackets from ARB to the control
  arm did you take any photos to look at ??
  Im looking at fitting the brackets also. Ever ARB or Pedders.
  Im waiting for a reply about info from pedders on there brackets.As
  I have seen ARB.

  peter


G'day Peter,

I haven't uploaded any pics to Yahoo yet, but if you have a look at the
first 6 photos at the following link you'll find some related pics.

http://www.the-shed.net/photos.php?Pagetype=2&album=25

There are some more pics we took which must be sorted and permission granted
by the photographer for their publishing ;-)
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.












To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Doron" 
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:43:13 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Goulden"  wrote:
> G'day Peter,
> 
> I haven't uploaded any pics to Yahoo yet, but if you have a look at the
> first 6 photos at the following link you'll find some related pics.
> 
> http://www.the-shed.net/photos.php?Pagetype=2&album=25
> 
> There are some more pics we took which must be sorted and permission granted
> by the photographer for their publishing ;-)
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.

G'day Greg,

I had a question about the Lower control Arm fix. I see that you 
chose to weld the reinforcement bracket. Aren't you worried that 
over time the captured area between bracket and control arm will 
develop rust that eventually will weaken the arm?

I want to do the same fix and just wandered about it

Hope you've been doing well.

Doron.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:13:39 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: More on lower control arm failures
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Doron [mailto:dstrass@infoteam.net]

  G'day Greg,

  I had a question about the Lower control Arm fix. I see that you
  chose to weld the reinforcement bracket. Aren't you worried that
  over time the captured area between bracket and control arm will
  develop rust that eventually will weaken the arm?

  I want to do the same fix and just wandered about it


Hi Doron,

We weren't concerned about the rust problem, and over here without the salt
on the roads we don't have near the rust problems you guys do. I guess we
could have made a bigger effort to try and get some paint in between the 2
parts if we tried.

Bolting the bracket on could potentially have the same problem as there's
plenty of space for dirt to get trapped too.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graham Tait" 
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:07:24 +1100
Subject: [100scool] My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Well guys,
 
After all the talk about the IFS failures, I finally managed to crawl under
the truck today, and found the beginnings of a crack on the drivers side
wish bone where the torsion bar joins.
 
I'll try Mr Toyota first (whilst I still have 2000k's warranty left on the
clock), but I have fitted after marked shocks, so not sure how I'm going to
go. It's going in next week for its 6th set of front & third set of rear
disc rotors.
 
It does have standard torsion bars though, so I'll be pushing the point.
 
I'll let you know of the results, but I'll be looking at adding a
strengthening kit whilst its apart either way.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 



	Small Business Computer Supply  
& Support - Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Equipment Cases - Rescue Gloves

	

Graham Tait 	Bellbird Distributors
PO Box 115
West Pennant Hills NSW 2125 	
graham@vjtait.com.au 	
tel: 
fax: 	(04) 1119-8936
98755677 	
	








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:09:37 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Tait [mailto:bellbirdweb@yahoo.com.au] 
Sent: Sunday, 16 January 2005 11:07 PM

> Well guys,
> 
> After all the talk about the IFS failures, I finally managed to crawl under
> the truck today, and found the beginnings of a crack on the drivers side
> wish bone where the torsion bar joins.
> 
> I'll try Mr Toyota first (whilst I still have 2000k's warranty left on the
> clock), but I have fitted after marked shocks, so not sure how I'm going to
> go. It's going in next week for its 6th set of front & third set of rear
> disc rotors.
> 
> It does have standard torsion bars though, so I'll be pushing the point.
> 
> I'll let you know of the results, but I'll be looking at adding a
> strengthening kit whilst its apart either way.
> 
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney


Did we ever find out if the pedders kit was differnet from arb? And the
Pedders was supposed to a "n drill" job too?
 
 
cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au  
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716















To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "cruiserman_80" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:01:15 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

> Well guys,
> 
> After all the talk about the IFS failures, I finally managed to crawl under
> the truck today, and found the beginnings of a crack on the drivers side
> wish bone where the torsion bar joins.
> 
> I'll try Mr Toyota first (whilst I still have 2000k's warranty left on the
> clock), but I have fitted after marked shocks, so not sure how I'm going to
> go. It's going in next week for its 6th set of front & third set of rear
> disc rotors.
> 
> It does have standard torsion bars though, so I'll be pushing the point.
> 
> I'll let you know of the results, but I'll be looking at adding a
> strengthening kit whilst its apart either way.
> 
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney

Graham
 
Have your torsion bars been wound up and do you have much in the way of bar,
winch etc.
Toyota has been pretty adamant that it is only overloaded vehicles with
modified suspension operating in severe conditions that are at risk.
 
If your vehicle does not meet that criteria and is having problems at less
than 100K , then people like myself are in real trouble, although a few more
cases like yours may force Toyota to admit that there is a real issue.
 
Be very interested to know how you get on.
 
Good Luck
 
Cheers Craig
HDJ100R 04 TD GXL MAN
ARB Deluxe Bar /Warn XD9000 Winch
IPF Fogs + 740 HIR Lights
Rear Locker with ARB Compressor
Dtronic, Safari Snorkel, OME Torsion Bars, Dual Batteries.
Newcastle Australia
 
 







To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:49:06 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: cruiserman_80 [mailto:cruiserman_80@exemail.com.au] 
Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 19:01

> Graham
> 
> Have your torsion bars been wound up and do you have much in the way of bar,
> winch etc.
> Toyota has been pretty adamant that it is only overloaded vehicles with
> modified suspension operating in severe conditions that are at risk.
> 
> If your vehicle does not meet that criteria and is having problems at less
> than 100K , then people like myself are in real trouble, although a few more
> cases like yours may force Toyota to admit that there is a real issue.
> 
> Be very interested to know how you get on.
>
> Good Luck
> 
> Cheers Craig


Hi Craig,
 
My bars were re-set by ARB when they fitted the Bilsteins, but I wasn't
going to mention that when talking to Toyota. But I guess the non standard
shocks will be enough for them to attempt to get out of it.
 
Whilst I do use my vehicle in some fairly serious off road situations, I
wouldn't class them as extreme, and in fact over the very rough stuff, I
tend to baby it anyhow, so I'm fairly disappointed to say the least.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 
 

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com  
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
********************************************** 










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "cruiserman_80" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:02:27 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] My turn for the IFS Failure (CHAT)
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
  _____  
From: Bellbirdweb [mailto:bellbirdweb@yahoo.com.au] 
Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 7:49 PM

> Hi Craig,
> 
> My bars were re-set by ARB when they fitted the Bilsteins, but I wasn't
> going to mention that when talking to Toyota. But I guess the non standard
> shocks will be enough for them to attempt to get out of it.
> 
> Whilst I do use my vehicle in some fairly serious off road situations, I
> wouldn't class them as extreme, and in fact over the very rough stuff, I
> tend to baby it anyhow, so I'm fairly disappointed to say the least.
> 
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney


Graham
I currently have ARB Deluxe Steel Bar, winch and dual batteries which makes
me a prime candidate.
What heavy accessories do you have fitted if any?
 
Cheers Craig
HDJ100R 04 TD GXL MAN
ARB Deluxe Bar /Warn XD9000 Winch
IPF Fogs + 740 HIR Lights
Rear Locker with ARB Compressor
Dtronic, Safari Snorkel, OME Torsion Bars.
Newcastle Australia
 






To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:00:56 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] My turn for the IFS Failure (CHAT)
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: cruiserman_80 [mailto:cruiserman_80@exemail.com.au] 
Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 20:02

> Graham
> I currently have ARB Deluxe Steel Bar, winch and dual batteries which makes
> me a prime candidate.
> What heavy accessories do you have fitted if any?
>
> Cheers Craig


Sorry Craig,
 
Forgot to answer that part of the question.
 
I have an ARB Deluxe winch bar & Dual Batteries fitted as well, but no
winch.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 
 

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com  
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
********************************************** 












To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Doron" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:07:36 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Tait"  
wrote:
> Well guys,
>  
> After all the talk about the IFS failures, I finally managed to crawl under
> the truck today, and found the beginnings of a crack on the drivers side
> wish bone where the torsion bar joins.
>  
> I'll try Mr Toyota first (whilst I still have 2000k's warranty left on the
> clock), but I have fitted after marked shocks, so not sure how I'm going to
> go. It's going in next week for its 6th set of front & third set of rear
> disc rotors.
>  
> It does have standard torsion bars though, so I'll be pushing the point.
>  
> I'll let you know of the results, but I'll be looking at adding a
> strengthening kit whilst its apart either way.
>  
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney

Hello Guys,

In trying to understand the IFS failure issue (like everybody else) 
I want to model the faluire. Could anybody tell me the diameter and 
the length of the STOCK T bar of the HDJ100. 

Thanks,
Doron.
UZJ100, FJ40
Vail, Arizona USA











To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Doron" 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:10:37 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Tait"  
wrote:
> Well guys,
>  
> After all the talk about the IFS failures, I finally managed to crawl under
> the truck today, and found the beginnings of a crack on the drivers side
> wish bone where the torsion bar joins.
>  
> I'll try Mr Toyota first (whilst I still have 2000k's warranty left on the
> clock), but I have fitted after marked shocks, so not sure how I'm going to
> go. It's going in next week for its 6th set of front & third set of rear
> disc rotors.
>  
> It does have standard torsion bars though, so I'll be pushing the point.
>  
> I'll let you know of the results, but I'll be looking at adding a
> strengthening kit whilst its apart either way.
>  
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney


Hello Guys,

I was wandering if we can update the data in the database section. I
am sure they were more then 3 failures out there=85

Thanks,
Doron.
UZJ100, FJ40
Vail, Arizona USA













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bryan Cossart" 
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:05:55 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] re :My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

> Hi Craig,
> 
> My bars were re-set by ARB when they fitted the Bilsteins, but I wasn't
> going to mention that when talking to Toyota. But I guess the non standard
> shocks will be enough for them to attempt to get out of it.
> 
> Whilst I do use my vehicle in some fairly serious off road situations, I
> wouldn't class them as extreme, and in fact over the very rough stuff, I
> tend to baby it anyhow, so I'm fairly disappointed to say the least.
> 
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney

Graham I would have thought that better shocks and no changes to the torsion
bar was in fact a better situation for the torsion bar than the original
state. You have a better damper to help protect the torsion bar from going
all the way to the bump stops. The torsion bar can't be overloaded because
of the bump stops. Unless they are wound up ofcourse. That's the argument
I'd use with Toyota.

Nevertheless it seems pretty obvious to me that Toyota can easily claim that
new stiffer torsion bars put a greater load on the mounts than the original
bars would.  In the spring set up this wouldn't really be the case so I can
see why there was never a problem. It really seems to be as someone has said
a case of Toyota not over designing the mounts as much as we would like.

Bryan Cossart
TD 100 Canberra  with OME Ltr's + original T Bars not wound up a bit ;-)











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:47:42 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] re :My turn for the IFS Failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Cossart [mailto:bcossart@pcug.org.au] 
Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 06:06

> Graham I would have thought that better shocks and no changes to the torsion
> bar was in fact a better situation for the torsion bar than the original
> state. You have a better damper to help protect the torsion bar from going
> all the way to the bump stops. The torsion bar can't be overloaded because
> of the bump stops. Unless they are wound up ofcourse. That's the argument
> I'd use with Toyota.
> 
> Nevertheless it seems pretty obvious to me that Toyota can easily claim that
> new stiffer torsion bars put a greater load on the mounts than the original
> bars would.  In the spring set up this wouldn't really be the case so I can
> see why there was never a problem. It really seems to be as someone has said
> a case of Toyota not over designing the mounts as much as we would like.
> 
> Bryan Cossart
> TD 100 Canberra  with OME Ltr's + original T Bars not wound up a bit ;-)


Brian,
 
My thoughts exactly.
 
I will be arguing that point at the service next week.
 
Graham
 
 

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com  
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
********************************************** 










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Graham" 
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 05:59:29 -0000
Subject: [100scool] IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Guys,

Well as expected, Toyota have denied my warranty claim in the cracked 
lower control arm.

Find copied below the letter I have sent to Ian Chenney from Toyota.

I also have a contact with John Laws, so I'll be giving him a yell to 
try and stir the pot.

Graham Tait
HDJ100+++++ a cracked front end
Sydney

Dear Mr Chenney,

I am writing to you to voice my concern over Toyota's abregation of 
their responsibility in relation to the current problems of failuers 
in lower control arms on Landcruiser 100 Series IFS models.

I have just come from Castle Hill Toyota, where upon inspection, they 
confirmed that I have the beggining stages of cracking developing on 
my Right hand control arm. They inform me that they are unable to 
repair the damage under warranty due to a bulletin issued by Toyota 
stating that any modifications to the suspension void the warranty.

In my case, the vehicle has been fitted with aftermarket shock 
absorbers, but still has standard torsion bars.

The cracking, as I'm sure you are already aware, occurs in a weld 
adjacent to the torsion bar, and could not be blamed on a shock 
absorber with a better damping rate than the original equipment. In 
fact, the fitting of Bilstein shocks has probably prevented the 
failure occuring earlier (the vehicle has 97000k's on it).

I am aware of at least 1 other person who has contacted you regarding 
this issue, and you replied with the standard information straight 
out of the Toyota bulletin, however, unless Toyota acknowledges that 
the design of this suspension is sub-standard, you run the risk of 
being embroiled in a legal & media bun fight.

I am hoping that you can assist me in the early resolution of this 
current problem, as I intend to take this matter up with the 
Department of Fair Trading, Media outlets and if necessary commence 
legal proceedings should a satifactory resolution not be reached.

Should you wish to discuss this matter with me further, please do not 
hesitate to contact me.

Regards

Graham Tait
Ph: (02) 9872 5924  Mob: 0411198936 Fax (02) 9872 4673









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:21:31 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Graham,
 
What's your legal argument on this?
 
 
cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au  
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:17:42 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:22

> Graham,
> 
> What's your legal argument on this?
> 
> 
> cheers
> brian
> www.gpsoz.com.au  
> ph  02 9999 2313
> fax 02 9999 6716

Brian,
 
I believe that Toyota are aware, and have been since at least October last
year when they issued the technical bulletin that there are problems with
the design if the lower control arms.
 
Even the service manager at the dealer told me that he has been doing
warranty work on vehicles with modified suspension sing the FJ60's, and
Toyota has rarely issued a bulletin such as this one.
 
Now I'm not a lawyer, but I certainly know a couple who should be able to
find a breach in their responsibilities somewhere.
 
Of course I'm hoping that other means will resolve it, as Toyota have much
deeper pockets than most Landcruiser drivers. I suspect it would take a
class action, to get them to do anything.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 
 

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com  
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
********************************************** 













To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "David" 
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:50:54 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


FWIW, if I were about to take on the might of Toyota, I'd invest a 
few hundred dollars in at least two independent engineers'
reports (from reputable organisations like NRMA or AAA) that show 
the damage was not caused by an aftermarket suspension system but 
rather a fault with the Toyota suspension. 

Lodge a complaint, attaching the reports and any correspondence, 
with the NSW Office of Fair Trading (or your state equivalent).

I'd then attach the reports to a "letter of demand" addressed
to Toyota from a specialist plaintiff law firm that has good 
experience in Product Liability or the Trade Practices Act (such as 
Maurice Blackburn Cashman or Slater & Gordon). 

The letter might even refer to Toyota's "reputation for toughness" 
and how it may not look too good if the marketplace starts to learn 
Toyota may not be as tough as they think (these law firms are always 
great for getting air time on shows like Today Tonight, but I'm not 
sure about the public's level of sympathy for 4WD's at the moment!).

I wouldn't be worried about escalating the matter to a law firm. 
What I'd hope to achieve with this approach is to show Toyota I'm 
serious, provide proof of fault, and professional communication 
between a corporation and a law firm always packs a bigger punch. 
This can be as far as you take the matter. I always reckon going to 
court is a lose-lose proposition anyway.

If there are others who are suffering from the same problem, costs 
may be shared. 

The caveat is, of course, that the actual cost of repairs might be 
about the same, or less than, the cost of an engineer's report or 
two and a letter from a law firm. Remember, these initial costs are 
mostly unrecoverable, even if Toyota ultimately agrees to repairs 
under warranty.

It always depends on how much of a fight you're up for.

Cheers,

David.














To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Doron" 
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:13:05 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "David"  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, if I were about to take on the might of Toyota, I'd invest a 
> few hundred dollars in at least two independent engineers'
> reports (from reputable organisations like NRMA or AAA) that show 
> the damage was not caused by an aftermarket suspension system but 
> rather a fault with the Toyota suspension. 
> 
> Lodge a complaint, attaching the reports and any correspondence, 
> with the NSW Office of Fair Trading (or your state equivalent).
> 
> I'd then attach the reports to a "letter of demand" addressed
> to Toyota from a specialist plaintiff law firm that has good 
> experience in Product Liability or the Trade Practices Act (such as 
> Maurice Blackburn Cashman or Slater & Gordon). 
> 
> The letter might even refer to Toyota's "reputation for toughness" 
> and how it may not look too good if the marketplace starts to learn 
> Toyota may not be as tough as they think (these law firms are always 
> great for getting air time on shows like Today Tonight, but I'm not 
> sure about the public's level of sympathy for 4WD's at the moment!).
> 
> I wouldn't be worried about escalating the matter to a law firm. 
> What I'd hope to achieve with this approach is to show Toyota I'm 
> serious, provide proof of fault, and professional communication 
> between a corporation and a law firm always packs a bigger punch. 
> This can be as far as you take the matter. I always reckon going to 
> court is a lose-lose proposition anyway.
> 
> If there are others who are suffering from the same problem, costs 
> may be shared. 
> 
> The caveat is, of course, that the actual cost of repairs might be 
> about the same, or less than, the cost of an engineer's report or 
> two and a letter from a law firm. Remember, these initial costs are 
> mostly unrecoverable, even if Toyota ultimately agrees to repairs 
> under warranty.
> 
> It always depends on how much of a fight you're up for.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David.




This is a potential dangerous failure mode, people could get hurt. I 
wonder what Toyota is thinking. They probably did the cost difference 
analysis between "admitting the guilt" and recalling the huge amount 
of trucks. For right now, recalling is probably much more expensive. 
At least for the short run.

I am using my UZJ in an "Australian" type driving here in the US and 
potentially I'll get hit first. I know I don't stand a chance with 
Toyota USA.

Anyway, I am sure Toyota Australia is monitoring the situation 
closely and until this cost analysis flips, I think the legal route 
is a waist of time and money and more importantly, will leave a bad 
taste in your mouth about your Cruiser.

Just my thoughts
Doron Arizona USA
















To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Shotts Family" 
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:21:21 -0700
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Doron [mailto:dstrass@infoteam.net]
  Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:13 AM
  To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight



  This is a potential dangerous failure mode, people could get hurt. I
  wonder what Toyota is thinking. They probably did the cost difference
  analysis between "admitting the guilt" and recalling the huge amount
  of trucks. For right now, recalling is probably much more expensive.
  At least for the short run.

  I am using my UZJ in an "Australian" type driving here in the US and
  potentially I'll get hit first. I know I don't stand a chance with
  Toyota USA.

  Anyway, I am sure Toyota Australia is monitoring the situation
  closely and until this cost analysis flips, I think the legal route
  is a waist of time and money and more importantly, will leave a bad
  taste in your mouth about your Cruiser.

  Just my thoughts
  Doron Arizona USA



Very good point Doron.  My opinion is basically the same.  Over the 90K
miles I've owned my 2001 I've spent basically ZERO dollars on repairs.  If
the cost arose to replace a cracked arm I wouldn't even think about it.  I'd
just do it.  I consider that LITTLE compared to what other fork out
CONSTANTLY to keep their Rovers and the like running.  Now if this was an H2
thing where the wheels fly off without warning I'd be more concerned.  We
just need to inspect those arms for cracks and replace when necessary.  (And
hope somebody comes out with a 3-inch lift with new arms, knuckles, etc.
I'm dreaming.)













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Peter Dudley" 
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:23:31 +1100
Subject: RE: Unclassified. RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for	 a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Schoenfisch, Russell MR [mailto:russell.schoenfisch@defence.gov.au] 
Sent: Friday, 4 February 2005 14:54 PM

> Guys,

> I'm watching this with interest from the sidelines, since my cruiser is live
> axle. However, I wondered if there is enough data out there yet to draw the
> conclusion that it's a common fault that will eventually occur on all/most
> vehicles.  Toyota clearly haven't admitted liability yet, but how many have
> to crack before they do? How many totally standard vehicles have had the
> problem? My understanding is that Toyota claim to have had no failures of
> unmodified vehicles to date, so it'll be a while before they get around to
> admitting anything.  Maybe it's time to consider beefing up the area with
> the ARB mod or whatever before it starts to crack.....  The last thing you
> want to happen is for the thing to crack halfway up the CSR or something.
> Also, if you have to spend lots of time and money fighting Toyota, you might
> as well spend your effort fixing your truck. The job Greg did on that
> vehicle recently sounded good - take the fitting off, weld it properly, weld
> the ARB part on, and refit. 

Russell

For me you have hit the nail on the head - how many standard vehicles have
had a problem. Until Toyota start getting a number of reports of stock
vehicles having a problem they will not payout on claims. That's not to say
that people who have made changes are not highlighting a problem that will
develop on stock vehicles in time. Maybe those who are having problems
should get them fixed and then send a copy of the bill to Toyota stating
that if they ever do have a recall that the bill be paid as the dealer
refused the warrenty claim.

Peter Dudley
T: 03 9800 4700
M: 0419 324 790
E: ii@bigpond.net.au










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:16:47 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi David,
 
Yes I agree with your comments.
 
In reality, the cost of repairs VS the cost of any possible legal action
would not weigh up.
 
I'm just going to make as much noise as possible to see what sort of reply I
get.
 
If I were the only one to have the problems, them I would cop it on the
chin, but it's been a widely discussed issue for the last 6 months at least,
and Toyota have admitted the problem through the issue of the TNF 70/04
Technical Bulletin, albeit denying responsibility for it.
 
I am basically hoping that I might be able to bring the issue to a head, and
get Toyota to perhaps review their policy, and everyone else who comes
against the problem might have an easier ride.
 
Maybe even a recall !!
 
Graham Tait
HJD100+++
Sydney
 

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com  
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
********************************************** 










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:25:07 +1100
Subject: RE: Unclassified. RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


Hi Russell,
 
I'm thinking that I will fit the mod regardless of who ends up paying for
it.
 
Toyota are obviously only going to fit the same part, which is going to
result in the problem repeating it self down the track.
 
The other issue, is that if you fit the strengthening kit, even to stock
suspension, it will also void the warranty.
 
I thought I bought a Landcruiser because they were the BEST.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 
 








To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Janis Kinne 
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:29:28 +1100
Subject: Re: Unclassified. RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a
 fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Bellbirdweb wrote:

> Hi Russell,
>
> I'm thinking that I will fit the mod regardless of who ends up paying for
> it.
>
> Toyota are obviously only going to fit the same part, which is going to
> result in the problem repeating it self down the track.
>
> The other issue, is that if you fit the strengthening kit, even to stock
> suspension, it will also void the warranty.
>
> I thought I bought a Landcruiser because they were the BEST.
>
> Graham Tait
> HDJ100+++
> Sydney

Graham
Re your comment:

"if you fit the strengthening kit, even to stock
suspension, it will also void the warranty."

Surely that would only apply to the ARB mod which requires holes to be 
drilled or welding.  As the Pedders mod is a bolt on steel plate that 
uses original bolt locations and no original equipment is modified why 
should warranty be affected?
Cheers
Janis










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:31:12 +1100
Subject: RE: Unclassified. RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Janis,
 
I must admit ignorance to the Pedders mod, I have only seen the ARB one that
requires drilling.
 
However, TNF 79/04 states "Where this damage is detected or reported by a
customer and inspection confirms the presence of suspension modifications or
suspension setting changes, Toyota Warranty will not apply"
 
At least you could un-bolt it before inspection I guess.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 









To: "'100scool@yahoogroups.com'" <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Schoenfisch, Russell MR" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:59:47 +1100
Subject: RE: Unclassified. RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for 
	a fight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


Graham,
I think we have to accept that Toyotas are no longer bullet-proof beasts
that you can change all sorts of things on and never have a structural
problem.
 
However, I would still own a cruiser than anything else..... Does that mean
I'm biased????
 

Russell Schoenfisch 
KPMG 

03 9256 3313 (Defence Office - Laverton) 
Mob 0431 483 985 













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Frank Tamas" 
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:02:38 +1100
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for afight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


Another slant on this same issue.
 
In 2001 I was up in Darwin and was getting a service done at a Toyota
dealership, sorry don't remember which one, but there can't be too
many.
Whilst talking to the service manager, I commented on the slack
standard suspension, (I had a major droop problem), and how dealers in
Sydney, wouldn't go near a suspension mod.
He said they did it all the time. A fair portion of 100's and 105's
they sold had ARB or TJM 2" lifts. In fact they even sold a fair amount
of 4" lifted trucks to the mining guys.
So I got him to organise a suspension up grade (2" TJM, coils and
shocks).
(I could have done this in Sydney but only thru TJM or ARB direct, but
the car was leased and the leasing company would only accept mods done
by Toyota, or I would have to pay for it out of my own pocket!)
 
So I now have a truck that has suspension modified for me by Toyota.
Does this still happen up in Darwin? 
And what is their stance in this issue?
 
Frank Tamas
1999 FZJ105
Sydney

 







To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Wilson, David F" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:11:06 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for afight
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Tamas [mailto:tamasf@stgeorge.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 7 February 2005 11:03 AM

> Another slant on this same issue.
>  
> In 2001 I was up in Darwin and was getting a service done at a Toyota
> dealership, sorry don't remember which one, but there can't be too
> many.
> Whilst talking to the service manager, I commented on the slack
> standard suspension, (I had a major droop problem), and how dealers in
> Sydney, wouldn't go near a suspension mod.
> He said they did it all the time. A fair portion of 100's and 105's
> they sold had ARB or TJM 2" lifts. In fact they even sold a fair amount
> of 4" lifted trucks to the mining guys.
> So I got him to organise a suspension up grade (2" TJM, coils and
> shocks).
> (I could have done this in Sydney but only thru TJM or ARB direct, but
> the car was leased and the leasing company would only accept mods done
> by Toyota, or I would have to pay for it out of my own pocket!)
> 
> So I now have a truck that has suspension modified for me by Toyota.
> Does this still happen up in Darwin? 
> And what is their stance in this issue?
>  
> Frank Tamas
> 1999 FZJ105
> Sydney


There must be something about Northern Territory Toyota Dealers. 
I had a service at Peter Kittle Toyota in Alice Springs last July 
and they called to say one of my front after market shocks had failed. 
I gave them the go ahead to replace both shocks (at my expense) and 
when I picked up the vehicle it had nice new OME shocks. Not sure what 
the outcome would have been if it was OE shocks that failed. I have 
heard of a Prado owner receiving OME's as a warranty replacement.

David Wilson
2002 TD 100









To: "100scool (E-mail)" <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:03:17 +1100
Subject: [100scool] IFS failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi all,

For the record:

We recently completed the CSR with 1 x 100 IFS GXV, 1 x GXL 100IFS and a
Prado.

The GXV 100IFS broke the RHS, lower control arm, inboard, rear pivot just as
we completed the CSR, (lucky him). The vehicle was recovered to Halls Creek
where the local Toyota agent replaced the arm and reset the suspension. This
took about a week of discussion between ARB, Toyota and the local agent. In
the end Toyota met the cost, reluctantly, although it took until he had
returned to Tweed Heads to get the money back.

The vehicle was toward of the end of the warranty period but still within
warranty. The suspension is fitted with OME shockers and it has a Winch,
Safari Bull bar and the front suspension is lifted to overcome the weight of
the bull bar and the winch, plus a bit (very technical).

The vehicle is also fitted with Long range tank, Drawers, dual batteries
which are heavier than standard and heavier rear springs. Mostly ARB after
market stuff. The vehicle has the original Toyota torsion bars not ARB
units.

Also;
Does anyone have details of the Pedders brackets please. I would like to
know how they attach the bracket to the arm without extra holes. Is a
picture available on a  website or somewhere please.

Does anyone have a comment on the prospect of welding up the offending
stress concentrator which causes the crack while the arm is in position on
the vehicle. I reckon that the stress concentrator can be removed by a few
runs of weld to complete the unsatisfactory Toyota weld. The total amount of
heat would not be very significant as the weld area is quite small.

Regards,
Graeme Harrison
100IFS (without cracks at the last look and without brackets too for the
moment)
Melb OZ.








To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:43:29 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
> Hi all,
>
> For the record:
>
> We recently completed the CSR with 1 x 100 IFS GXV, 1 x GXL 100IFS and a
> Prado.
>
> The GXV 100IFS broke the RHS, lower control arm, inboard, rear pivot just as
> we completed the CSR, (lucky him). The vehicle was recovered to Halls Creek
> where the local Toyota agent replaced the arm and reset the suspension. This
> took about a week of discussion between ARB, Toyota and the local agent. In
> the end Toyota met the cost, reluctantly, although it took until he had
> returned to Tweed Heads to get the money back.
>
> The vehicle was toward of the end of the warranty period but still within
> warranty. The suspension is fitted with OME shockers and it has a Winch,
> Safari Bull bar and the front suspension is lifted to overcome the weight of
> the bull bar and the winch, plus a bit (very technical).
>
> The vehicle is also fitted with Long range tank, Drawers, dual batteries
> which are heavier than standard and heavier rear springs. Mostly ARB after
> market stuff. The vehicle has the original Toyota torsion bars not ARB units.
>
> Also;
> Does anyone have details of the Pedders brackets please. I would like to
> know how they attach the bracket to the arm without extra holes. Is a
> picture available on a  website or somewhere please.
>
> Does anyone have a comment on the prospect of welding up the offending
> stress concentrator which causes the crack while the arm is in position on
> the vehicle. I reckon that the stress concentrator can be removed by a few
> runs of weld to complete the unsatisfactory Toyota weld. The total amount of
> heat would not be very significant as the weld area is quite small.
>
> Regards,
> Graeme Harrison
> 100IFS (without cracks at the last look and without brackets too for the
> moment)
> Melb OZ.




Hi Graeme,
 
Your set-up sounds remarkably like mine.
 
I'm assuming ARB fitted your aftermarket suspension.
 
Out of interest, were they interested in covering any of the cost of the
repairs, as has been suggested by Toyota.
 
I also received an email back from Ian Chenney form Toyota today in relation
to my letter to him last Friday.
 
He stated that the Dealer has the ability to determine if the failure was
caused by the fitment of aftermarket components or through manufacturing
fault. This information is at odds with their technical bulletin which
states that warranty will not apply.
 
I took this to my local service manager, his question was "how the hell do I
know what caused it ?"
 
My next step is to take it back to the dealer on Wednesday, where the
national technical manager (who just happened to be visiting them that day
apparently) will look at the damage, and who has the authority to make the
final determination (I would suggest that its will only be final if found in
my favour ;) ).
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney
 
 

**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com  
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
********************************************** 












To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "phil gaukroger" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:37:29 +1030
Subject: Re: [100scool] IFS failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
> Hi all,
>
> For the record:
>
> We recently completed the CSR with 1 x 100 IFS GXV, 1 x GXL 100IFS and a
> Prado.
>
> The GXV 100IFS broke the RHS, lower control arm, inboard, rear pivot just as
> we completed the CSR, (lucky him). The vehicle was recovered to Halls Creek
> where the local Toyota agent replaced the arm and reset the suspension. This
> took about a week of discussion between ARB, Toyota and the local agent. In
> the end Toyota met the cost, reluctantly, although it took until he had
> returned to Tweed Heads to get the money back.
>
> The vehicle was toward of the end of the warranty period but still within
> warranty. The suspension is fitted with OME shockers and it has a Winch,
> Safari Bull bar and the front suspension is lifted to overcome the weight of
> the bull bar and the winch, plus a bit (very technical).
>
> The vehicle is also fitted with Long range tank, Drawers, dual batteries
> which are heavier than standard and heavier rear springs. Mostly ARB after
> market stuff. The vehicle has the original Toyota torsion bars not ARB units.
>
> Also;
> Does anyone have details of the Pedders brackets please. I would like to
> know how they attach the bracket to the arm without extra holes. Is a
> picture available on a  website or somewhere please.
>
> Does anyone have a comment on the prospect of welding up the offending
> stress concentrator which causes the crack while the arm is in position on
> the vehicle. I reckon that the stress concentrator can be removed by a few
> runs of weld to complete the unsatisfactory Toyota weld. The total amount of
> heat would not be very significant as the weld area is quite small.
>
> Regards,
> Graeme Harrison
> 100IFS (without cracks at the last look and without brackets too for the
> moment)
> Melb OZ.

Graeme,

The arms must break to different degrees.  The one that broke on the Madigan
Line last year was still driveable on its bump stops.  So rather than do
some bush welding, we nursed it out to Birdsville from the half way mark -
he was tail end charlie for the last 5 days.  As the owner just wanted to
get on with his holiday and had ARB torsion bars fitted, he didn't try for
warranty - just paid for the repair - I think the arm was about $500.

Also,the IFS must be pretty hard on the front shocks - the new OME front
shocks this guy was running spewed out their oil, and we changed them two
days before the arm broke.

Cheers
Phil
2002 HDJ79












To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Paul LeFevre" 
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:29:23 +1000
Subject: Re: [100scool] Re: IFS Failure - Toyota in for afight (chat)
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Wilson, David F" 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:11 PM

> There must be something about Northern Territory Toyota Dealers. I had a
> service at Peter Kittle Toyota in Alice Springs last July and they called
> to say one of my front after market shocks had failed. I gave them the go
> ahead to replace both shocks (at my expense) and when I picked up the
> vehicle it had nice new OME shocks. Not sure what the outcome would have
> been if it was OE shocks that failed. I have heard of a Prado owner
> receiving OME's as a warranty replacement.
>
> David Wilson
> 2002 TD 100


kittles are also an arb distributor/stockist ?  from memory.

cheers,
paul












To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Janis Kinne 
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 07:56:48 +1100
Subject: Re: [100scool] IFS failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Graeme wrote:

> Does anyone have details of the Pedders brackets please. I would like to
> know how they attach the bracket to the arm without extra holes. Is a
> picture available on a  website or somewhere please.

There don't appear to be any pictures on the web of the Pedders kit so=20
last week I went to Pedders in St Kilda to check them out.  Essentially=20
they are a flat triangular 4-5mm steel plate about 20cm long and about=20
10cm high with three holes, one at each extremity.  Apparently they are=20
bolted using existing bolts on to reinforce the area where the torsion=20
bar attaches to the lower control arm. Since I havent seen a dismantled=20
lower control arm and where the torsion bar attaches (I have an RFS=20
100series and am planning to get a new 100 IFS  cruiser so am doing a=20
bit of prework) I am finding it a bit difficult to visualise.  However I=20
guess it stiffens the area on the lower control arm where the torsion=20
bar attaches.

I would be very interested in an opinion from someone with engineering=20
skills to give an opinion of the ARB v Pedder approach with comments on=20
which is likely to work best as I plan to use one of these for my new=20
cruiser.
Cheers
Janis
100RFS
Melbourne














To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>, 
From: "Graham Tait" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:11:43 +1100
Subject: [lcool_aus] IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com

Well guys,

It pays to be persistent.

Toyota have agreed to recover my cracked control arm for assessment, and to
replace it with a new one at no cost. They were at pains to let me know it
was an act of good will, and not warranty.

I will be looking at fitting the strengthening mod from either ARB or
Pedders (the Pedders one sounds easier to fit, any reports as yet ?), as
they told me if it happens again it's my problem.

All I can suggest is that as many IFS owners as possible, those who have
suffered problems or not, bombard Toyota to try and get them to modify the
design and force a recall, that way we can all benefit, and Toyota can learn
to look after their biggest 4x4 market.

Graham tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney



	Small Business Computer Supply  
& Support - Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Equipment Cases - Rescue Gloves


Graham Tait 	Bellbird Distributors
PO Box 115
West Pennant Hills NSW 2125
graham@vjtait.com.au
tel:
fax: 	(04) 1119-8936 98755677












To: 
From: "Tim MARSHALL" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:49:44 +1100
Subject: Re: [lcool_aus] IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com


Graham,

    That's good news that Toyota will 'look' at your IFS. I have a 100
Series IFS and have heard the usual scary stories re the IFS cracking or
collapsing.

    I think it was in 4x4 Australia Mag that on one of the LOPE (?)
adventures that show a IFS Cruiser being welded up on the run. The article
wasn't clear on what broke - but my guess is that it was the IFS.

    The local ARB dealer near me has mention the ARB strengthening kit - but
he hasn't heard any reports as yet.

    What extras have you put on your Cruiser and what was
Factory/Dealer/After market add ons??? What was Toyota's opinion of the
extras???

    Just curious - in case it happens to me!



Tim MARSHALL
Stratford, Vic
100 GXL TD with bits.

















To: 
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:27:58 +1100
Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim MARSHALL [mailto:wilmar@netspace.net.au]=20
Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:50

> Graham,
> 
>     That's good news that Toyota will 'look' at your IFS. I have a 100
> Series IFS and have heard the usual scary stories re the IFS cracking or
> collapsing.
> 
>     I think it was in 4x4 Australia Mag that on one of the LOPE (?)
> adventures that show a IFS Cruiser being welded up on the run. The article
> wasn't clear on what broke - but my guess is that it was the IFS.
> 
>     The local ARB dealer near me has mention the ARB strengthening kit - but
> he hasn't heard any reports as yet.
> 
>     What extras have you put on your Cruiser and what was
> Factory/Dealer/After market add ons??? What was Toyota's opinion of the
> extras???
> 
>     Just curious - in case it happens to me!
>
>
>
> Tim MARSHALL
> Stratford, Vic
> 100 GXL TD with bits.



Hi Tim,

Toyota's initial reaction was to deny the warranty claim because I had
Bilsteins fitted, as well as having had ARB re spline the standard torsion
bars.

I pushed the point, and emailed Toyota direct, and suggested that I would
make a lot of noise, and I believed it was their design flaw that is
resulting in us not being able to uprate our suspensions.

They still deny that it is their problem, but are recovering the part, so at
least I get it fixed.

I have an ARB deluxe winch bar, driving lights & a dual battery system on
the front end.


Regards

Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney


**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com =20
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
**********************************************=20

















To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:31:51 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Graham Tait [mailto:bellbirdweb@yahoo.com.au]

  Well guys,

  It pays to be persistent.

  Toyota have agreed to recover my cracked control arm for assessment, and to
  replace it with a new one at no cost. They were at pains to let me know it
  was an act of good will, and not warranty.

  I will be looking at fitting the strengthening mod from either ARB or
  Pedders (the Pedders one sounds easier to fit, any reports as yet ?), as
  they told me if it happens again it's my problem.

  All I can suggest is that as many IFS owners as possible, those who have
  suffered problems or not, bombard Toyota to try and get them to modify the
  design and force a recall, that way we can all benefit, and Toyota can learn
  to look after their biggest 4x4 market.

  Graham tait


G'day Graham,

Congratulations on your "win". Having read the bulletin TNF 79/04, I thought
it was strange that they mentioned that "In some instances  TMCA has
assisted with the costs of control arm replacement to enable the recovery of
the damaged parts for investigation", it almost sounds like "if the customer
makes enough noise we'll consider helping them out".

Surely if the problem is as they say caused by aftermarket components or
non-standard settings then there would be no need for any further
investigation?

As now we have in fact two Graeme / Graham's reporting that Toyota have
covered the cost of replacement parts on 2 vehicles when aftermarket shocks
have been fitted then they have set a precedent now ;-)

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.














To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:30:11 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Greg,

The reply I received from Toyota was indicating that the dealer had the
ability to determine if in his opinion the cracking was caused by the
aftermarket component.

This was at odds with the wording of TNF 79/04 which seemed quite clear.

I have also purchased the Pedders strengthening kit, as it didn't require
drilling of the new arm to fit. I'm going to see if the dealer will fit it
when they are replacing the arm.

I can upload pics of the Pedders kit if anyone wants one.

I'll also photograph my lower arm and upload it to the database.

Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:22:03 +1100
Subject: [100scool] photos of pedders bracket please
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Graham,
 I would like to see the pedders kit please so some photos would be
appreciated. I am especially interested to see how the third bolt fits in.
Regards,
Graeme Harrison
Melb oz
2003 IFS diesel without cracks
















To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "rogtj99" 
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:19:26 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Suspension Recommendations
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

I've just taken delivery of V8 Kakadu and am planning mods.  Usually
do dual batteries, bullbar, suspension cargo barrier etc in my 4WD's
(have had several over the years, including 2 Series 1 Prados, and
highly modified TJ Wrangler.  Bar, battery setup and barrier
happening next week, but putting off suspension until April.

I am aware of the issues of the RHS lower wishbone cracking, and
wonder if anyone has any advice on this prior to starting my
suspension modifications.  Some are saying that only happens on
heavily loaded up vehicles with modified suspension driven hard.
Will the ARB reinforcing bracket fited from new help?  I have not
decided which setup to go for yet, usually fit heavy duty coils so
planning same for rear and new torsion bars for front.  Thanks, Rog














To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:55:43 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Suspension Recommendations
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: rogtj99 [mailto:rogerh@rtmc.com.au]

  I've just taken delivery of V8 Kakadu and am planning mods.  Usually
  do dual batteries, bullbar, suspension cargo barrier etc in my 4WD's
  (have had several over the years, including 2 Series 1 Prados, and
  highly modified TJ Wrangler.  Bar, battery setup and barrier
  happening next week, but putting off suspension until April.

  I am aware of the issues of the RHS lower wishbone cracking, and
  wonder if anyone has any advice on this prior to starting my
  suspension modifications.  Some are saying that only happens on
  heavily loaded up vehicles with modified suspension driven hard.
  Will the ARB reinforcing bracket fited from new help?  I have not
  decided which setup to go for yet, usually fit heavy duty coils so
  planning same for rear and new torsion bars for front.  Thanks, Rog


G'day Roger,

I haven't heard of a V8 cracking a wishbone yet, seems the lighter weight
and placement of the V8 puts less stress on the suspension.

The ARB reinforcement kit would have to help, but beware Toyota won't want
to know you if you have any warranty issues with the suspension. Many will
advise you to keep the suspension standard, but in my mind any time spent
with additional load (bullbar, winch, dual batts, etc) on the vehicle
without correcting spring rate for the extra load, should be a good time
enjoying the drive with the suspension working as it should.

OME make what I think are the least heavy t/bars (12 - 15% over stock), with
many others going up to 30% over stock. There are also a multitiude of
springs available for the rear, depending on your requirements and
anticipated load.

Shocks are very important on the large vehicle, particularly on the front
where the IFS can make them work hard. Quality costs money so don't skimp
there IMO.

Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "phil gaukroger" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:16:34 +1030
Subject: Re: [100scool] Suspension Recommendations
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Greg Goulden" 
> I haven't heard of a V8 cracking a wishbone yet, seems the lighter weight
> and placement of the V8 puts less stress on the suspension.


Greg,

I think a lot of the breaks happen well off the beaten track with loaded=20
vehicles - usually turbo-diesel country - don't see too many V8's on the=20
Canning or Madigan Line.

Cheers
Phil
2002 HDJ79.











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:28:07 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS failure
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: phil gaukroger [mailto:pgaukrog@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:07 PM

> Graeme,
> 
> The arms must break to different degrees.  The one that broke on the Madigan
> Line last year was still driveable on its bump stops.  So rather than do
> some bush welding, we nursed it out to Birdsville from the half way mark -
> he was tail end charlie for the last 5 days.  As the owner just wanted to
> get on with his holiday and had ARB torsion bars fitted, he didn't try for
> warranty - just paid for the repair - I think the arm was about $500.
> 
> Also,the IFS must be pretty hard on the front shocks - the new OME front
> shocks this guy was running spewed out their oil, and we changed them two
> days before the arm broke.
> 
> Cheers
> Phil
> 2002 HDJ79

Hi Paul,

It was my mates car that failed but I was not too keen on driving the car
any further after we found the problem. The pivot had opened up totally and
was unsupported at the bearing end. The suspension torsion bar was sitting
on the rubber bush of the cross torsion threating to knock it off.

I have spoken to ARB re their bracket and they say in is not covered by any
warranty from ARB, so no warranty from Toyota and no warranty from ARB what
do Pedders say.

Regards,
Graeme Harrison
Melb OZ
100 IFS












To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Bellbirdweb" 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:23:44 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2005 16:56

> Graham,
> 
> Absolutely on both counts please. If you don't want to upload them yourself,
> feel free to e-mail the images direct to me and I'll do the rest.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg Goulden
> 2000 HDJ105
> Melb. AU.

Greg et al,

I have just uploaded a couple of pics with the cracking (hard to see from
this photo, will try again in the daylight for a better view), as well as
the Pedders strengthening kit & instructions.

Regards

Graham



**********************************************
BELLBIRD DISTRIBUTORS
http://www.rescuestuffdirect.com =20
sales@rescuestuffdirect.com
Streamlight Torches - Waterproof Cases - Rescue Gloves
**********************************************=20










To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Doron" 
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:06:20 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: IFS Cracks - Toyota comes to the party
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi everybody

Just looked at the Padders fix kit and I must admit that I do not
understand how it reinforces the trouble area in the lower control
arm. To my understanding the failure starts developing in the weld
that attaches the upper part of the c arm to the lower part, right
at the corner, inboard of the bolt connecting the t bar to the c
arm. Also if the plate is not welded to the arm, it would not
reinforce the attachment area of the T bar.
But then again, maybe I do not understand the whole problem???

Looked at my C arms last night and the left side doesn't look good.
There is what looks like a hair line crack in the weld, right at the
corner. Either that or this is the sorriest weld I've seen in a long
time. I need to clean up the area, bring a bright light along and re-
inspect.

Doron
UZJ100
Arizona USA












To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:30:01 +1100
Subject: [100scool] Pedders photos
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Graham,
Where will I find the pedders photos please.
Regards,
Graeme Harrison










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:20:17 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Pedders photos
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Graeme Harrison [mailto:mgbl@bigpond.com]

  Hi Graham,
  Where will I find the pedders photos please.
  Regards,
  Graeme Harrison


Graeme,

Got to the 100sCool Yahoo home page, select "photos", then select the "100
series IFS failures" folder.

Greg.














To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graham Tait" 
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:45:18 +1100
Subject: [100scool] End Result - IFS Cracks
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi All,
 
Just a post script to my recent IFS cracking dramas.
 
Toyota stuck to their word, and replaced the lower RHS control arm for me at
their cost, I also supplied them with the Pedders reinforcing kit and asked
them to fit it, which they also did for free (on both the affected and the
unaffected sides).
 
All in all, a good result, and a lesson for persistence when dealing with
them.
 
Graham Tait
HDJ100+++
Sydney














To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:21:40 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] End Result - IFS Cracks
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi Graham,
Congratulations on the Toyoto outcome. I still live in trepidation. I can't
for the life of me see how the Pedders bracket can work. Do you have this
figured out please?
Regards,
Graeme Harrison
Melb Oz,
2003 IFS

	









To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "peter" 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 05:53:54 -0000
Subject: [100scool] 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi to all,
At the 20000km service which I do (stuff Toyota) I will be removing 
the left and right control arms from my 03 IFS turbo cruiser.
The purpose of this is to finish the weld to the end of the control 
arm which is approximately 15mm where the cracking has occured on 
vehicles.  
In my view as a Motor Body Builder of 30 years experience in the 
trade this on its own will improve the problem area that Toyota has 
created by not completing the weld to the end.
Also I will be adding the ARB or Pedders add on kit to the control 
arm to help strengthen the area. I am leaning towards the Pedders 
kit as you can still see the problem area and keep an eye on it.

Which kit is better.... ????

In my view they will both help in the problem area on the control 
arms. 

Any views welcome on this issue

Peter.  











To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Paul Klat 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:04:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [100scool] 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

peter  wrote:snippo

> The purpose of this is to finish the weld to the end of the control 
> arm which is approximately 15mm where the cracking has occured on 
> vehicles.  
> In my view as a Motor Body Builder of 30 years experience in the 
> trade this on its own will improve the problem area that Toyota has 
> created by not completing the weld to the end.
> Also I will be adding the ARB or Pedders add on kit to the control 
> arm to help strengthen the area. I am leaning towards the Pedders 
> kit as you can still see the problem area and keep an eye on it.
> 
> Which kit is better.... ????
> 
> In my view they will both help in the problem area on the control 
> arms. 
> 
> Any views welcome on this issue
> 
> Peter.  


Hi all members,
A good point Peter,I too have been thinking on the same lines even to the 
extent of havinng a locker installedre front diff, as well as ARB doing 
their brackets. I am also trying to decide the better IFS bracket. At the 
moment the ARB one seems the best. Appreciate all coments.
Paul Klat

















To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "Gary Weatherley" 
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:21:18 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Possible IFS Fixes
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

I'm planning to have my A Arms welded - I am also considering 
welding some extra bits across the join to strengthen the weak 
section.

I have been under the impression that it is the increase stress from 
extra weight (e.g. Bar & Winch) coupled with stiffer T'Bars that is 
causing these failures. However I heard a suggestion that it is the 
shock from the suspension topping out. If this was the case then 
some form of cusioning for when the wheel drops might be in order. I 
understand that the shocker is the limiting factor in the suspension.

What does the group think?

Gaz

2004 HDJ100R (Auto)
ABR Bar/Warn 9.5XP/OME Suspension/Light Force 240/Snorkel/TX3400 
UHF/Dick Cepek 285/75/16's/Front & Rear Air Lockers/25Lts of onboard 
air storage
Melbourne











To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:31:42 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Possible IFS Fixes
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Weatherley [mailto:garyw@phg.com.au] 
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2005 11:21 AM

> I'm planning to have my A Arms welded - I am also considering 
> welding some extra bits across the join to strengthen the weak 
> section.
> 
> I have been under the impression that it is the increase stress from 
> extra weight (e.g. Bar & Winch) coupled with stiffer T'Bars that is 
> causing these failures. However I heard a suggestion that it is the 
> shock from the suspension topping out. If this was the case then 
> some form of cusioning for when the wheel drops might be in order. I 
> understand that the shocker is the limiting factor in the suspension.
> 
> What does the group think?
> 
> Gaz
> 
> 2004 HDJ100R (Auto)
> ABR Bar/Warn 9.5XP/OME Suspension/Light Force 240/Snorkel/TX3400 
> UHF/Dick Cepek 285/75/16's/Front & Rear Air Lockers/25Lts of onboard 
> air storage
> Melbourne


Actually I heard the opposite, ie compression was the problem!
 
Ain't urban myths wonderfullllll
 
 
cheers
brian
100 FTE with IFS and lovin' it!!
 
www.gpsoz.com.au  
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716














To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:02:47 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Possible IFS Fixes
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au]

  Actually I heard the opposite, ie compression was the problem!

  Ain't urban myths wonderfullllll

  cheers
  brian


Hi Guy's,

You both raise valid points, and it's certainly Brian's theory that I was
working on, and it would also appear to be Toyota's too as the higher spring
rate of thicker torsion bars would place more strain on the control arm at
full compression. Remember Toyota is saying "no warranty with aftermarket
components or non standard settings). A softer spring rate would mean the
arm contacted the bump stop easier, and this doesn't seem to be a problem
(no failed bump stops or arms cracked at the bump stop point) that I'm aware
of.

However, a thicker bar would also make the arm come to the sudden end of the
shock stroke when the front of the vehicle became unloaded as you drove over
a rise, etc. That said, good shockers on their rebound should prevent that
from being an issue.

Yes Gary, the shock is the limiter for the arms downstroke, followed by the
drive shaft, tie rod end, etc,etc (as per the pic that was in the letters
section of last months 4WD Monthly mag.) I don't see the need for limiting
straps unless you were using the vehicle for high speed stuff where you were
likely to be airborn, or get close to it (like Paris Dakar). For most a good
shock should sustain the forces without a problem, after all they do a
similar role in live axle application too.

I still think that welding the arm properly to the end (like Toyota should
have done) and fitting the ARB brackets will go a long way to fixing the
problem. However it is a fatigue problem in my eyes so time will only tell.
Regards,

Greg Goulden
2000 HDJ105
Melb. AU.













To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Neville Haskett 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:28:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: 100 series IFS mod to live axle
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- Stefan Kossen  wrote:

> Hi Nev,
>  
> We went the full length of the Anne Beadell, and the
> CSR, with no
> problems at all in 2004.

Thanks for the comments guys.

I have done most of the big trips in the Std 80 series
I had for ten years.  These were repeatedly shown to
be the most reliable truck out there.

My TD100 series has all Arb gear - B/Bar winch springs
shocks t/bars etc.

I try and make the vehicle as competent as possible as
I travel alone, though you generaly have half Aust
traveling with you in practise.

I was starting to feel I was at about Disco
reliability sandards though, what with this pathetic
Toyota oversight on the IFS.

Nev










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Graeme Harrison" 
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:59:35 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


Hi Peter Freeman,
I agree with your supposition that the welding of the crack to the end is
the best fix. Have you considered doing it without removing the arm.

I can't for the life of me see how the Pedders bracket works.

I can only see that the ARB one will work and if you remove the arm and weld
the ARB bracket on it is the best fix. Discuss with Walter Bevilacqua on
this list, he has already done this.

ARB do not offer any warranty on their bracket.

Are you in Melbourne.

Regards,
Graeme Harrison
IFS Diesel
Melb Oz
















To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: Prasad Talaiver 
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 08:21:23 +0400
Subject: RE: [100scool] 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

Hi,
 Could someone direct me to a dealer who sells the ARB bracket for
international customers? Preferably online but even if I can call and
get it ordered its fine. 
Thanks,
Cheers,
 
Prasad,
FZJ100 2001
Dubai
UAE











To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com
From: "peter" 
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 06:22:21 -0000
Subject: [100scool] Re: 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

--- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme Harrison"  wrote:
> Hi Peter Freeman,
> I agree with your supposition that the welding of the crack to the end is
> the best fix. Have you considered doing it without removing the arm.
> 
> I can't for the life of me see how the Pedders bracket works.
> 
> I can only see that the ARB one will work and if you remove the arm and weld
> the ARB bracket on it is the best fix. Discuss with Walter Bevilacqua on
> this list, he has already done this.
> 
> ARB do not offer any warranty on their bracket.
> 
> Are you in Melbourne.
> 
> Regards,
> Graeme Harrison
> IFS Diesel
> Melb Oz

Graeme Harrison hi 
I am in Sydney.
I will go and see the boys at ARB in sydney and see what they have 
to say.
As for removing the control arm you can run a better weld on the job 
when removed.

Regards,
peter.









To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:38:19 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: peter [mailto:pffreeman@dart.net.au] 
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2005 5:22 PM

> Graeme Harrison hi 
> I am in Sydney.
> I will go and see the boys at ARB in sydney and see what they have 
> to say.
> As for removing the control arm you can run a better weld on the job 
> when removed.
> 
> Regards,
> peter.


Just for my info, how long to r&r a front arm?
 
 
cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au  
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716










To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Greg Goulden" 
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:43:31 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: brian sommerville [mailto:brian@gpsoz.com.au]

  Just for my info, how long to r&r a front arm?


  cheers
  brian



Brian,

It's not that difficult. I'd say 1hr r&r each side.

Greg.













To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>
From: "brian sommerville" 
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:53:08 +1100
Subject: RE: [100scool] Re: 100 Series IFS upgrade.
Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2005 5:44 PM

> Brian,
> 
> It's not that difficult. I'd say 1hr r&r each side.
> 
> Greg.

OK so a reasonable work list would be:
 
remove front arm
re weld
add ARB kit
replace arm
turn up torsion bars
 
about 2hrs a side.
 
cheers
brian
www.gpsoz.com.au  
ph  02 9999 2313
fax 02 9999 6716
















To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com>, 
From: "Craig" 
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:44:27 +1000
Subject: [lcool_aus] Toyota Recall for IFS Issues
Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com

Don't get your hopes up just yet, its only for Hiluxs &  4 Runners, however.

 

I spent some time with my local Toyo Service Manager last Saturday and we
discussed the 100 series IFS failures in some detail as he was not
previously aware of them. During our chat he told me about a current recall
for early model Toyota Hiluxs and 4runners. Details are below but they are
recalling every IFS hilux and 4 runner sold between 1988 & 1996 because of a
potential fatigue crack in a steering relay rod that could occur if  "the
steering wheel is repeatedly turned under certain conditions where high
steering effort is required." The Service manager believed that it was a
very rare occurrence possibly related to cases where the power steer box had
failed or been disconnected. I had a look at one of these relay rods out of
a 15 year old Hilux and it looked a lot more solid than the control arm on
an IFS Cruiser.

 

Admittedly a failure of this component would lead to instant and total loss
of steering rather than collapsed suspension but I believe that it is
encouraging that Toyota has gone ahead with this recall which will total
many thousands of vehicles. Perhaps there is hope for us IFS 100 series
owners after all.

 

Details of the recall are

 

Hilux 4WD and 4Runner vehicles

Date: 07/09/2005

Supplier Name: Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Limited

Recall Coverage:  National

Product Make: Toyota 

Product Model: Hilux and 4Runner 

Target Number: 25012 

Model Years From: April 25, 1988 to June 28, 1996 and December 13, 1988 to
November 8, 1995 

Consequences:  

Campaign Number: 5525H 

VIN Range: Hilux: Model LN107: 09000001 - 09003193, Model LN111: 09000002 -
09007185, Model RN106: 06000001 - 06000743, Model RN110: 08000002 -
08001416. 4Runner: Model LN130: 08000002 - 08004815, Model RN130: 07000001 -
07002737, Model YN130: 08000001 - 08000465, Model VZN130: 07000001 -
07009860. 

Serial Range:  

Product Info: Only Hilux 4WD with Independant Front Suspension (IFS).

Defect Details:  A fatigue crack may develop on the Steering Relay Rod. The
crack may occur if the steering wheel is repeatedly turned under certain
conditions where high steering effort is required.

Consumer action: All owners will be contacted by letter.

Market Coverage: National

Recall Coverage: National

 

Link to the govt recall site
http://www.recalls.gov.au/view_recall_detail.php?Recall_ID_Auto=13628

 

 



To: 
From: "Doyle Scott" 
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:37:57 +1000
Subject: RE: [lcool_aus] Toyota Recall for IFS Issues
Reply-To: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: lcool_aus@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Craig
Sent: Thu 10/20/2005 8:44 AM
 
> very rare occurrence possibly related to cases where the power steer box had
> failed or been disconnected. I had a look at one of these relay rods out of


Surely the power steer being disconnected would only increase the load
on the driver. the force required by the box to turn the front wheels
would be the same surely?

Scott.

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