To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "W.Brown" Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:03:00 +1000 Subject: [100scool] Not Happy with repair costs Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com Squealing noise under the bonnet was not a good sign as we drove out of town on our way home from a week of fishin and relaxin around Port Macquarie. A cursory inspection found the noise was coming from the brake booster, a bit of tapping and touch of the brake peddle seemed to stop the noise. That was Monday Tuesday night it didn't go away and the ABS alarm came on. Wednesday morning convinced the dealer I should come in unannounced for a quick check. Mechanic's first comment sent shivers down the old spine, 'that does not sound good'. Without pulling it apart he suggested it sounds like a bearing in the pump. It turns out the 100 series brake booster is presurised and has a small compressor inside. I asked if I was better off taking it to a brake specialist...No the unit is genuine Toyota. Ok said this voice inside the brain box ask the hard question...How much do you think will cost to fix? The reply - probably about $2500. These things don't break and this only the second one I have seen, the other was on a car not 100 series. Now you know why this little black duck is unhappy and will continue to be so until its sorted. As a sign of goodwill( given I have the vehicle serviced at the dealership) he has contacted Toyota to see if they will come to the party in some way. I live in hope. What they don't know is that if I have to pay $2500 it will be the last work with them as I'll be using the Lubemobile people in future to save money. Does anyone know a wrecker they would recommend. I can see myself going to another mechanic to fit a second hand unit. Regards, Wayne To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:52:45 -0000 Subject: [100scool] Re: Not Happy with repair costs Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "W.Brown" wrote: > Squealing noise under the bonnet was not a good sign as we drove out of > town on our way home from a week of fishin and relaxin around Port > Macquarie. A cursory inspection found the noise was coming from the > brake booster, a bit of tapping and touch of the brake peddle seemed to > stop the noise. > > Regards, Wayne Wayne, From your note it sounds like the electric pump which charges the accumulator to provide the power assistance to your brakes has died, which I have never heard of before. Would you care to share with us the year and model you have? If it's not far over the 3 yr / 100,000km warranty, and you have some records of dealer servicing, then I would think Toyota will provide some sort of assistance. Please keep us informed. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "W.Brown" Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:30:31 +1000 Subject: RE: [100scool] Digest Number 558 Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com It just go a whole lot worse, the service chap rang this morning. . Toyota will not come to the party and it will cost $3800 for the unit (retail). Not game to tell the wife yet... It seems 150kms is too many kms for a 1999/2000 100 series which has been dealer serviced all its life. Not if you drive interstate distances on your holidays, I was planning a trip to Cooktown, via Longreach, in Jul. Is there a conspiracy here to only buy parts which are complete units rather than, in my case, buy the compressor/pump and rather than replace the complete ABS unit. Grasping at straws. Off to sit down and write a letter to Toyota Customer service. Ohh and if you didn't catch my previous post. The catch on the console lid snapped off, and no can buy, must buy whole lid. $620 retail for the console lid all I can say is look after yer lids lads. I'm using Velcro and blue tack at the moment. We have had three Toyota vehicles over the years all looked after appropriately. But now --- Ahhhggg my nephew suggests I trade it and buy a merc or BMW. The trouble is I like my little land cruiser....for now. To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com Cc: dtlc@helios.net, landcruisers@birfield.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:54:56 +0200 Subject: 100-series brake-booster problems (was: [100scool] Not Happy with repair costs Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com On 6 May 2004 at 19:30, W.Brown wrote: > It just go a whole lot worse, the service chap rang this morning. > . Toyota will not come to the party and it will > cost $3800 for the unit (retail). Not game to tell the wife yet... > > It seems 150kms is too many kms for a 1999/2000 100 series which has > been dealer serviced all its life. Not if you drive interstate > distances on your holidays, I was planning a trip to Cooktown, via > Longreach, in Jul. > > Is there a conspiracy here to only buy parts which are complete units > rather than, in my case, buy the compressor/pump and rather than > replace the complete ABS unit. Grasping at straws. > > Off to sit down and write a letter to Toyota Customer service. Ohh > and if you didn't catch my previous post. The catch on the console lid > snapped off, and no can buy, must buy whole lid. $620 retail for the > console lid all I can say is look after yer lids lads. I'm using > Velcro and blue tack at the moment. > > We have had three Toyota vehicles over the years all looked after > appropriately. But now --- Ahhhggg my nephew suggests I trade it and > buy a merc or BMW. The trouble is I like my little land > cruiser....for now. If it adds leverage, you are free to mention that this story has been put online by now, for the purpose of warning other customers for buying an 100-series & asking about similar incidents/samples: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80_brake-booster-integrated- pump.txt And be so kind to remind them that the 1HD-T big-end bearing issue once started the same way....;)) PS: you never mentioned what engine....do all J10 share the same brake-booster pump, regardless of diesel or gasoline? (and I thought the combined alternator/vacuum pump on J4/J6 diesels was bad....;)) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:55:09 +1000 Subject: RE: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Kossen [mailto:stefank@cosoz.net.au] Hi, I have a pretty good exploded view in the Gregory's manual, and suspect that the factory manual would be even better. I would be very surprised, if you can't obtain the parts required. Good luck with it, and please keep us informed, as mine is a similar vintage, but a lot less mileage. Cheers, Stefan HZJ105 2000 Stefan, I think you raise a valid point, the motor could probably be easily repaired if thats where the fault lays. Also, have you got ABS? The booster system which has failed on Wayne's vehicle is only fitted to those with ABS, ie. Petrol or Diesel variants. Non-ABS vehicles still get the more convential vacuum booster. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Stefan Kossen" Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:06:23 +1000 Subject: RE: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Greg Goulden [mailto:hdj105@bigpond.com]=20 Sent: Friday, 7 May 2004 7:55 AM > Stefan, > > I think you raise a valid point, the motor could probably be easily > repaired if thats where the fault lays. > > Also, have you got ABS? The booster system which has failed on Wayne's > vehicle is only fitted to those with ABS, ie. Petrol or Diesel variants. > Non-ABS vehicles still get the more convential vacuum booster. > Hi, Yes Greg, mine has ABS, and the factory lockers as you know. I did order it without airbags though. Just reading through the manual, it is important that the brake pedal is pressed at least 40 times with the ignition turned of, before dismantling of the booster is attempted, apparently there is quite high pressure in there. Cheers, Stefan. To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 00:21:30 +0200 Subject: RE: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com On 7 May 2004 at 8:06, Stefan Kossen wrote: > Hi, > > Yes Greg, mine has ABS, and the factory lockers as you know. > I did order it without airbags though. > > Just reading through the manual,=20 > it is important that the brake pedal is pressed at least 40 times with > the ignition turned of, before dismantling of the booster is > attempted, apparently there is quite high pressure in there. I was told this complex combo & pressure unit also came (only?) on those with the adjustable height system, all based on oil-pressure? (all these have ABS to begin with of course) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand=20 is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:29:04 +1000 Subject: RE: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Kossen [mailto:stefank@cosoz.net.au] Hi, Yes Greg, mine has ABS, and the factory lockers as you know. I did order it without airbags though. Just reading through the manual, it is important that the brake pedal is pressed at least 40 times with the ignition turned of, before dismantling of the booster is attempted, apparently there is quite high pressure in there. Cheers, Stefan. Stef, I knew there was something you deleted! :-) The electric pump (sits horizontally under the unit) charges the accumulator (round vertical cylinder) to store the pressure, and the pump runs periodically to maintin a set pressure. You hear the pump running for say 6 seconds after turning the ignition on, and after serveral brake applications. I noticed the interference the pump caused on the AM CB while driving, and took some driving to work out what it was. Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "W.Brown" Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:10:55 +1000 Subject: RE: [100scool] Digest Number 559 Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com Just finished speaking to Toyota customer service, who in turn spoke to the Warranty team. The answer was the same to many KMs. I made the point that the part is not a kms item, ie gearbox, CV joints etc. but that it is a defective part to have given up the ghost so early in its life. Ohh so sorry but the answer is still no go. Ok so can every LC expect to replace the ABS at 150km, umm no. Then it is a defective part, yes? No too many kms. Analysis - Toyota customer support for their products is very poor. Ergo if you buy a Toyota consider using after market services as the outcome will be the same. Gone to a brake specialist who has not heard of the booster pump bearing playing up before, but as he said they units are too new he hasn't seen any come through. I asked about second hand units, some light is emerging, he knows of a chap in NQ who specialises in Toyota wrecks. It seems the tend to roll them up that way quite regularly, especially in the mines. He is going to see if he can get a 2nd hand unit sent down. More to follow.. Regards, Wayne To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Darren McRae" Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 07:12:04 -0000 Subject: [100scool] Re: Digest Number 559 Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "W.Brown" wrote: > Just finished speaking to Toyota customer service, who in turn spoke to > the Warranty team. The answer was the same to many KMs. Did you ask them to draw a line in the sand, and state how many KM would be ok? DMc To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Greg Goulden" Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:21:44 +1000 Subject: RE: [100scool] Digest Number 559 Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: W.Brown [mailto:wayneb@pcug.org.au] Sent: Friday, 7 May 2004 4:11 PM To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [100scool] Digest Number 559 Just finished speaking to Toyota customer service, who in turn spoke to the Warranty team. The answer was the same to many KMs. I made the point that the part is not a kms item, ie gearbox, CV joints etc. but that it is a defective part to have given up the ghost so early in its life. Ohh so sorry but the answer is still no go. Ok so can every LC expect to replace the ABS at 150km, umm no. Then it is a defective part, yes? No too many kms. Analysis - Toyota customer support for their products is very poor. Ergo if you buy a Toyota consider using after market services as the outcome will be the same. Gone to a brake specialist who has not heard of the booster pump bearing playing up before, but as he said they units are too new he hasn't seen any come through. I asked about second hand units, some light is emerging, he knows of a chap in NQ who specialises in Toyota wrecks. It seems the tend to roll them up that way quite regularly, especially in the mines. He is going to see if he can get a 2nd hand unit sent down. More to follow.. Regards, Wayne Wayne, Have you investigated repairing the failed bearing, rather then replacing the whole unit? Please keep us up to date (and please change the subject line and maybe add a "signature" at the bottom too ;-) Regards, Greg Goulden 2000 HDJ105 Melb. AU. To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "Craig Huxley" Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 08:26:03 -0000 Subject: [80_aus] Re: Not Happy with repair costs for ABS unit Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com, "W.Brown" wrote: > > Squealing noise under the bonnet was not a good sign as we drove out of > town on our way home from a week of fishin and relaxin around Port > Macquarie. A cursory inspection found the noise was coming from the > brake booster, a bit of tapping and touch of the brake peddle seemed to > stop the noise. That was Monday Tuesday night it didn't go away and the > ABS alarm came on. Wednesday morning convinced the dealer I should come > in unannounced for a quick check. > > Mechanic's first comment sent shivers down the old spine, 'that does not > sound good'. Without pulling it apart he suggested it sounds like a > bearing in the pump. It turns out the 100 series brake booster is > presurised and has a small compressor inside. I asked if I was better > off taking it to a brake specialist...No the unit is genuine Toyota. Ok > said this voice inside the brain box ask the hard question...How much do > you think will cost to fix? The reply - probably about $2500. These > things don't break and this only the second one I have seen, the other > was on a car not 100 series. > > Now you know why this little black duck is unhappy and will continue to > be so until its sorted. As a sign of goodwill( given I have the vehicle > serviced at the dealership) he has contacted Toyota to see if they will > come to the party in some way. I live in hope. > > What they don't know is that if I have to pay $2500 it will be the last > work with them as I'll be using the Lubemobile people in future to save > money. > > Does anyone know a wrecker they would recommend. I can see myself going > to another mechanic to fit a second hand unit. > > Dealer has just gotten back to me - No go and the unit will cost $3800. > AArrrggghhh. It seems the 100 series have pressurised booster as > distinct from vacuum booster. This necessitates a pump and it is the > pump assembly which is playing up. > > Regards, Wayne Better get your yellow pages out and start ringing. Get onto a wreckers and get a used one. If they don't break that often then a used one will obviously be okay. However the dealer calling Toyota and you calling toyota are two different things. You could ring them yourself and complain bitterly about this and see if they will come to the party...parts and you pay for labour. Mention the km's dealer serviced etc etc etc. I assume this is a petrol 100 series? as all diesels use an external vacuum pump. BTW Few of us put much faith in dealer servicing...too many horror stories to say they are much better than the average mechanic. Good luck and please report back. Craig From: andrew lukies Date: Sun May 9, 2004 9:12 pm Subject: Re: [80_aus] Re: Not Happy with repair costs for ABS unit --- Craig Huxley wrote: > Better get your yellow pages out and start ringing. > Get onto a > wreckers and get a used one. If they don't break > that often then a > used one will obviously be okay. > > However the dealer calling Toyota and you calling > toyota are two > different things. You could ring them yourself and > complain bitterly > about this and see if they will come to the > party...parts and you pay > for labour. Mention the km's dealer serviced etc > etc etc. > > I assume this is a petrol 100 series? as all diesels > use an external > vacuum pump. > > BTW Few of us put much faith in dealer > servicing...too many horror > stories to say they are much better than the average > mechanic. > > Good luck and please report back. > > Craig Gday guys The 100 series uses a electro/hydraulic booster instead of the vacuum one. I would be asking some questions at the brake specialists to see if they can get parts for it or if they are happy to install a preloved one. As Craig said, if it is uncommon, then there are a few at the wreckers that will probably last as long as your cruiser. Andrew 94 fzj80 Wollongong To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com Cc: 100scool@yahoogroups.com From: "Willem-Jan Markerink" Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 15:16:49 +0200 Subject: [100scool] Re: Not Happy with repair costs for ABS unit Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com On 9 May 2004 at 8:26, Craig Huxley wrote: > Better get your yellow pages out and start ringing. Get onto a > wreckers and get a used one. If they don't break that often then a > used one will obviously be okay. > > However the dealer calling Toyota and you calling toyota are two > different things. You could ring them yourself and complain bitterly > about this and see if they will come to the party...parts and you pay > for labour. Mention the km's dealer serviced etc etc etc. > > I assume this is a petrol 100 series? as all diesels use an external > vacuum pump. To me it sounds more like a pressure pump. (one can boost/amplify force both ways of course, I guess the only preference for vacuum comes from the fact that it used to be available on gasoline engines for free anyway) I was also told this pump not only came with ABS, but was also needed for the adjustable suspension on similar high-grade models, all relying on a similar hydraulic circuit (all using brake/hydraulic fluid?) -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!] To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "W.Brown" Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 19:18:39 +1000 Subject: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com They can't start the repair until the unit is removed and the advice from the dealer is that the unit has to be replaced.... In the process of writing to the Toyota expressing my deep concern and that I'm about to ring Allen Jones or his mate John Laws. I'm going to assert that the ABS is not listed for replacement at 150kkms and as such its failure is a result of fault. Or should all 100 series LC owners expect to have to replace the unit around 150k kms. The spouse was talking about replacing her camry with a RAV4, after telling her the parts costs she is now thinking of a BMW. I'll keep the list informed on my progress, I'm also quoting that the matter is getting an airing on the 80 & 100 series e-lists. Regards, Wayne To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "Michael Ralser" Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 23:08:30 +1000 Subject: Re: [100scool] Not Happy with repair costs Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com Re ABS Brake booster pump: "These things don't break and this only the second one I have seen, the other was on a car not 100 series." This comment suggests the same part might be fitted to more than one type of toyota with ABS? It might be worth chatting with ordinary toyota wreckers and comparing part numbers. From: "Huw Williams" Date: Sun May 9, 2004 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [100scool] Re: Not Happy with repair costs for ABS unit Willem-Jan Markerink wrote: > On 9 May 2004 at 8:26, Craig Huxley wrote: > >> Better get your yellow pages out and start ringing. Get onto a >> wreckers and get a used one. If they don't break that often then a >> used one will obviously be okay. >> >> However the dealer calling Toyota and you calling toyota are two >> different things. You could ring them yourself and complain bitterly >> about this and see if they will come to the party...parts and you pay >> for labour. Mention the km's dealer serviced etc etc etc. >> >> I assume this is a petrol 100 series? as all diesels use an external >> vacuum pump. > > To me it sounds more like a pressure pump. > (one can boost/amplify force both ways of course, I guess the only > preference for vacuum comes from the fact that it used to be > available on gasoline engines for free anyway) > > I was also told this pump not only came with ABS, but was also needed > for the adjustable suspension on similar high-grade models, all > relying on a similar hydraulic circuit (all using brake/hydraulic > fluid?) My 100 series diesel has the electrically driven brake pressure booster with ABS. As far as I know, all UK diesel 100 series have this whether they have the active hydraulic suspension or not. The brake system uses brake fluid while the totally independent hydraulic suspension system uses a special fluid available from Toyota dealers. In conclusion, the active suspension system is not conected and does not share any part of its system with the brake system. Huw From: "Jardine, David FLTLT" Date: Sun May 9, 2004 3:19 pm Subject: SEC: Unclassified RE: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Wayne, This is very typical of Toyota. I have a 1998 100 series and have the clutch shudder problem. When I first took it in to ask if they can replace it as it is a known fault I was told that the car had too many kays (they didn't even look at the clock, just assumed it had to many kays). It had only done 72,000kms. When I pointed this out to them, they quickly back pedalled and said it was too old. Fair enough the vehicle was five years old but as it was a known fault and with so few kays I did expect them to at least acknowledge it. Good luck with going to the media. Cheers Jards From: "Darren McRae" Date: Sun May 9, 2004 11:48 pm Subject: Re: SEC: Unclassified RE: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure --- In 100scool@yahoogroups.com, "Jardine, David FLTLT" wrote: > Wayne, > This is very typical of Toyota. I have a 1998 100 series and have > the clutch shudder problem. said it was too old. Fair enough the vehicle was five years > > Cheers > Jards I dont wish to treat anyone disrespectfully here, but dont we choose to own a car out of warranty, and know what the warranty period is when we buy a car, and have the option of paying for toyota extra care while the car is under warranty? How much more should we ask for? DMc To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com From: "bluesky69au" Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:11:20 -0000 Subject: [80_aus] Re: Not Happy with repair costs for ABS unit Reply-To: 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com --- In 80scool_aus@yahoogroups.com, andrew lukies wrote: > Gday guys > The 100 series uses a electro/hydraulic booster > instead of the vacuum one. > I would be asking some questions at the brake > specialists to see if they can get parts for it or if > they are happy to install a preloved one. As Craig > said, if it is uncommon, then there are a few at the > wreckers that will probably last as long as your > cruiser. > Andrew 94 fzj80 > Wollongong Some good news to report. 4X4 up at Wyong have a couple of units from wrecks. $750. The brake guy hasn't had to repair one of these and didn't expect to for a few more years. He said the repairing of brakes usually begins at about 8 years, as the genuine parts become to expensive. He hasn't been able to source any kits as the after market manufacturers haven't kicked in yet. Ergo complete Toyota units are the only way forward, either secondhand or new. Once the Indian and Chinese manufactures kick in the prices will fall quickly. I guess until then we all bleed so to speak. My grumble is that it should not have broke so early in in its life cycle. I don't expect T to warranty the vehicle forever but if something breaks ahead of expected end of life I expect a discussion and some for of consideration. Thats what I expect from a firm if they want my business again. I have a VN commodore with 350k KMS and all I replaced is ignition unit, exhausts, and tyres. I'll let you know how things progress cause - as you are I was and as I am you could be... Regards, Wayne To: <100scool@yahoogroups.com> From: "W.Brown" Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 22:35:31 +1000 Subject: [100scool] 100 series brake boost failure Reply-To: 100scool@yahoogroups.com Well its fixed and not without a few hiccups. I ended up getting a 2nd hand unit from Coastal 4X4, $750 plus postage. I took it the brake guy and he got cold feet after contacting Toyota dealer. He does work for them, they advised he will need to bring it in after fitting it as they have the computer software to calibrate the unit during bleeding!! It was obvious when I went into see him that he didn't want to do the job. So off to the dealer who had always agreed the price was to high for the unit but their hands are tied. Short and long of it - they hooked up their test rig and the existing unit reported an error in the pump assembly under the master cylinder. It was easier and cheaper to replace the pump assembly and master cylinder. The new one didn't report any errors after it was fitted and all the alarms stopped. The dealer said they have exploded diags on the unit but there are not part numbers recorded so they can't refurb the unit. Also Sydney has complete ABS units but if I wanted to buy a pump assembly it would have to come directly from Nippon. I asked about workshop manuals, yep they are available a complete set costs $1500 to the dealer. Surely someone should be jumping on the pricing policy of Toyota. Anyway the dealer was helpful, it really helps if you can get to talk to the spanner jockey and talk through the options. Its back on the road and now I have to find a wheel doctor to check the front struts it feels soft on the passenger front compared to the driver's side. Regards, Wayne